how long will USA remain..


ummm yes it did ..nothing went in or out of the US for almost a week, your economy still hasnt recovered and above all elese the US proved to the world that it is defenseless and open to attack ..a handful of guys with box cutters were more effective at disrupting the US than any other nation in history
 
Great. We should all arm our troops with additional box cutters.
 
ummm yes it did ..nothing went in or out of the US for almost a week, your economy still hasnt recovered and above all elese the US proved to the world that it is defenseless and open to attack ..a handful of guys with box cutters were more effective at disrupting the US than any other nation in history

We weren't brought to our knees. You really like hyping up things out of proportion.

Oh wait, we stopped all our flights. Never mind. We're clearly flushing down the tubes of history.

I know it was a group of men armed with box cutters. No need to bold that for me. You'll have to excuse us for getting severely caught off guard by modern, unconventional warfare. As for our economy, it was suffering before 9/11. Our national debt and dependence on foreign resources alone were things we've been feeling for years. So don't try to imply that 9/11 singlehandedly dragged us into economic problems as if everything was dandy beforehand.

9/11 was an event. Not a prophetic marker of a USA in decline. We will be the number one superpower for many more years and there's no reason to believe otherwise. Our current cock-ups may expedite the process, but don't mistake that as a short timespan.
 
We weren't brought to our knees. You really like hyping up things out of proportion.

what would you define as "brought to your knees"? I think the above criteria is enough to fit that phrase ..but it's subjective so I'll give you the benefit of doubt and reiterate that 9/11 was more than just a blip in your history but rather a wake up call to how defenseless you truely are

Oh wait, we stopped all our flights. Never mind. We're clearly flushing down the tubes of history.

again try not to be so literal, I clearly did not mean that the US was forever ruined by 9/11

I know it was a group of men armed with box cutters. No need to bold that for me. You'll have to excuse us for getting severely caught off guard by modern, unconventional warfare. As for our economy, it was suffering before 9/11. Our national debt and dependence on foreign resources alone were things we've been feeling for years. So don't try to imply that 9/11 singlehandedly dragged us into economic problems as if everything was dandy beforehand.

again you're putting words in my mouth all I said was that 9/11 had a negative impact on your economy from which you still havent fully recovered

9/11 was an event. Not a prophetic marker of a USA in decline.

who said it was?

We will be the number one superpower for many more years and there's no reason to believe otherwise. Our current cock-ups may expedite the process, but don't mistake that as a short timespan.

your WMD makes you a superpower ..that and that alone
 
Millions of people were unaffected by 9/11, me included. It might as well have never happened.
So the country was "brought to it's knees" for a week. It's all better now.

A weakness was exploited and that weakness has been eliminated.

Next please.
How can any country be self-sustaining?

We don't need imports?
We have everything we need, and if we need something we don't have, we take it by force.
Self-sustaining. Not saying that's how we currently operate, I'm just saying if we had to, we could.
--
Remember the difference between need and want.
 
Millions of people were unaffected by 9/11, me included. It might as well have never happened.
So the country was "brought to it's knees" for a week. It's all better now.

A weakness was exploited and that weakness has been eliminated.

Next please.


We don't need imports?
We have everything we need, and if we need something we don't have, we take it by force.
Self-sustaining. Not saying that's how we currently operate, I'm just saying if we had to, we could.
--
Remember the difference between need and want.


The weakness wasn't removed as that sort of weakness can never be removed, unless you start removing all the freedoms of the American people, that weakness has been made smaller though.
 
The weakness wasn't removed as that sort of weakness can never be removed, unless you start removing all the freedoms of the American people, that weakness has been made smaller though.

The current generation of US citizens are wary of suspicious people in planes. Security is tighter, though I must admit there are holes. As a trusted vendor I have relatively unchecked access to all concourses. However, I as a semi-patriotic vendor act as secondary security personnel to our airport.

What I'm saying is the weakness was that of an oblivious, proud people. We are no longer oblivious, and pride has shifted to something a little more respectable and a little less self-serving.

I do think with future generations, maybe in 20 years time if no other incidents happen we will revert to our prideful state and that weakness may again be exploitable, but any event will be insignificant in comparison, and most likely intercepted.

/pointlessramble
 
To tell you the truth I love this country to death and hope I will never see its downfall. The real truth is that the downfall of this country is not going to be becouse of war or politics with other countrys. Its going to be the Illegal Mexicans, and so forth. Sooner or later there will be little if any jobs for the average legal US Citizen. Could this be the start of a depression? Think about it, if you had your own company would you rather higher a legal US citizen at $8 and hour and have to worry about taxes and so on or would you rather higher an illegal immigrant for $5 an hour and not have to worry about taxes. The illegal immigrants will work for hardly anything. As long as they get paid they dont care. What does this mean? More and more jobs being taken by Illegals.

I also work in retail and you would be suprised the percentage of money orders that are being sent to Mexico from probably Illegal Mexicans back to their home countrys. Maybe this is why the Mexican government is giving out pamphlets on how to get into the U.S. It helps their economy and hurts ours.

I say in the next 20 years you will see this becoming more and more apparent. Or maybe I am just crazy. We will see.

*BTW I am not racist in any way towards any minority, I just don't like how these people come into our country steal our benefits, commit crime, and live a good life without paying taxes.
 
That kinda sounds a bit borderline racist still. Change to immigrants. :p
 
How could uneducated illegal immigrants take the jobs from a skilled workforce?
 
It's my opinion. I am entitled to it. No I am not a racist. I do not go around wearing a white sheet over me or anything like that. I have lots of friends who are hispanic, black, chinese, etc.. I have no problem with them, I just have a problem with those who come here illegally and do not think that they have to pay taxes.
 
It's my opinion. I am entitled to it. No I am not a racist. I do not go around wearing a white sheet over me or anything like that. I have lots of friends who are hispanic, black, chinese, etc.. I have no problem with them, I just have a problem with those who come here illegally and do not think that they have to pay taxes.
You think they want to be illegals?

If your government would let them become legal citizens then they would pay taxes, and there would no advantage for a company to hire them over Americans if they have to be paid minimum wage.
 
Because obviously our government doesn't have a program that helps people from other countries become legal citizens :|.
 
Well...i'd say around 15 years, before Russia fully rebuilds itself. Here are some facts why:
*Nuclear power - Russia has built an undetectable nuclear missle type(announced it around a month ago), something the US is far behind on atm.
*Military power - currently under modernisation, weaker than the US in numbers, but a lot of newer equipment is better than what the US currently has (though many can speculate, i agree).
*Political power - You can notice that Russia is gaining a lot of influence lately, while the US is rapidly loosing it.
*Economical power - Well...you know, Oil, Gas, Metal. But the only difference between them is that Russia has gas deposits, while the US doesn't. Russia and Iran if i'm correct are the only countries that do in major amounts(That's why USA raises fists at Iran ;) ).
*Major territories - both large enough.

Euro Union is capable of being stronger than the US in all terms, but lacks unity in things like military force, currency, and political power(for ex. Poland is pro USA while France are totally not, not to mention the conservative Britain).

People also claim that China is an emerging superpower. I'm sure most of you know that their production price is something like 1/10 of the sale price. It scares me to think what will happen the day it's something like 7/10th - they'll probably flood us Genghis Khan style. :x

P.S I like the idea that Russia is an emerging superpower, and like it even more that USA and Russia are becoming more and more rivals to each other. That way we'll have balance, none of that USA agressiveness around the world will occur anymore, since their different views will paralyse them both in things like wars. Don't you agree?
 
Well...i'd say around 15 years, before Russia fully rebuilds itself. Here are some facts why:
*Nuclear power - Russia has built an undetectable nuclear missle type(announced it around a month ago), something the US is far behind on atm.
*Military power - currently under modernisation, weaker than the US in numbers, but a lot of newer equipment is better than what the US currently has (though many can speculate, i agree).
*Political power - You can notice that Russia is gaining a lot of influence lately, while the US is rapidly loosing it.
*Economical power - Well...you know, Oil, Gas, Metal. But the only difference between them is that Russia has gas deposits, while the US doesn't. Russia and Iran if i'm correct are the only countries that do in major amounts(That's why USA raises fists at Iran ;) ).
*Major territories - both large enough.

Euro Union is capable of being stronger than the US in all terms, but lacks unity in things like military force, currency, and political power(for ex. Poland is pro USA while France are totally not, not to mention the conservative Britain).

People also claim that China is an emerging superpower. I'm sure most of you know that their production price is something like 1/10 of the sale price. It scares me to think what will happen the day it's something like 7/10th - they'll probably flood us Genghis Khan style. :x

P.S I like the idea that Russia is an emerging superpower, and like it even more that USA and Russia are becoming more and more rivals to each other. That way we'll have balance, none of that USA agressiveness around the world will occur anymore, since their different views will paralyse them both in things like wars. Don't you agree?

You need to do some deeper research. I'll just point out one thing though, because I live here, Alaska is a HUGE American gas resource. We are still trying to unlock it through pending litigation and other bureaucracy.
We are having trouble with certain gas companies and a former governor making deals behind our back.
--
(Ok more than one comment)
Something else we got is the F22 Raptor. Not sure what Russia has for warplanes. Can't be anything remarkable.
We also have undetectable x/black projects. How undetectable? Ever heard of them? No? There you go. Undetected by the media. ;)
 
Well...i'd say around 15 years, before Russia fully rebuilds itself. Here are some facts why:
*Nuclear power - Russia has built an undetectable nuclear missle type(announced it around a month ago), something the US is far behind on atm.
*Military power - currently under modernisation, weaker than the US in numbers, but a lot of newer equipment is better than what the US currently has (though many can speculate, i agree).
*Political power - You can notice that Russia is gaining a lot of influence lately, while the US is rapidly loosing it.
*Economical power - Well...you know, Oil, Gas, Metal. But the only difference between them is that Russia has gas deposits, while the US doesn't. Russia and Iran if i'm correct are the only countries that do in major amounts(That's why USA raises fists at Iran ;) ).
*Major territories - both large enough.

Euro Union is capable of being stronger than the US in all terms, but lacks unity in things like military force, currency, and political power(for ex. Poland is pro USA while France are totally not, not to mention the conservative Britain).

People also claim that China is an emerging superpower. I'm sure most of you know that their production price is something like 1/10 of the sale price. It scares me to think what will happen the day it's something like 7/10th - they'll probably flood us Genghis Khan style. :x

P.S I like the idea that Russia is an emerging superpower, and like it even more that USA and Russia are becoming more and more rivals to each other. That way we'll have balance, none of that USA agressiveness around the world will occur anymore, since their different views will paralyse them both in things like wars. Don't you agree?

You definitely need to do some more research, but I agree with you on rival superpowers. The balance certainly kept everyone in check. Maybe that's what the world needs...
 
Hehe, I agree with you/him. :p

The problem with illegal immigrants is not that they "steal jobs" its more that they are an "unfair" competition for that current job.
Its easy to say "hey, you should have worked more for less" but isn't the whole social system of minimum wage and working hours setup so that, unlike in the 1900's people don't get exploited and paid 1 $ a month?

They should make them legal, or send them back. Staying their illegal does indeed destroy jobs. Its not WallMarts fault they have the opportunity to go around those pesky social laws of minimum wage and working hours, when there are tons of illegal immigrants who wish to do this.
Companies would always wish things were like back in the 1900's with no crummy social laws to block their profit.
Its also not the immigrants fault they see a better life in another country when their own is financially troubled, yet this doesn't mean its wrong or racial to do something about this disturbance of "balance".

We have the same problem in Holland with thousands of illegal Polish people driving up and working outside of the social system, in return reducing the amount of jobs for the "legal" people.
There probably is no clearcut problem, but i disagree with the "lazy" argument or "willing to work harder for less" argument.
Saying "you cant take the competition" is BS, then I'd say throw away the social laws governments setup 100 years ago and lets all go full throttle price-demand style. Welcome to the 19th century.

I find it really funny how the US is the country with the most views on that site.

Rofl, i see we're 4th place in viewers :p USA-Brittain-Canada-Holland lol
 
Saying "you cant take the competition" is BS, then I'd say throw away the social laws governments setup 100 years ago and lets all go full throttle price-demand style. Welcome to the 19th century.

You are joking right?
 
Saying "you cant take the competition" is BS, then I'd say throw away the social laws governments setup 100 years ago and lets all go full throttle price-demand style. Welcome to the 19th century.

w00t!
 
You are joking right?

uhm, Joking about what?
->Removing social laws? -> go reread my post and stop cherry-picking
->Joking about illegal immigrants being unfair competition? -> No, and, also go reread my post

I like his solution, lol :)
I don't understand how anyone can disagree with my position on illegal immigrants. Do I have to spoon feed the conclusion to you retards? It's obvious that if you force companies like WalMart to pay illegal immigrants the same wage as Americans, then they have no incentive to hire them over citizens. Even you racist pieces of shit can agree.

If only it was that simple :)
The whole idea on illegal immigrant workers is that they usually are not very "out in the open" otherwise they would get send back. You can force WalMart all you want, but technically they also currently shouldn't be hiring illegal immigrants at all, who's gonna check? and how? :)
"hmm, let me see your accounting, AHA!, uhm i see here $5 was spend on... hmm an illegal immigrant?, shouldn't you be paying illegal immigrants $5000 now?" :p
 
The problem with illegal immigrants is not that they "steal jobs" its more that they are an "unfair" competition for that current job.
Its easy to say "hey, you should have worked more for less" but isn't the whole social system of minimum wage and working hours setup so that, unlike in the 1900's people don't get exploited and paid 1 $ a month?

They should make them legal, or send them back. Staying their illegal does indeed destroy jobs. Its not WallMarts fault they have the opportunity to go around those pesky social laws of minimum wage and working hours, when there are tons of illegal immigrants who wish to do this.
Companies would always wish things were like back in the 1900's with no crummy social laws to block their profit.
Its also not the immigrants fault they see a better life in another country when their own is financially troubled, yet this doesn't mean its wrong or racial to do something about this disturbance of "balance".

We have the same problem in Holland with thousands of illegal Polish people driving up and working outside of the social system, in return reducing the amount of jobs for the "legal" people.
There probably is no clearcut problem, but i disagree with the "lazy" argument or "willing to work harder for less" argument.
Saying "you cant take the competition" is BS, then I'd say throw away the social laws governments setup 100 years ago and lets all go full throttle price-demand style. Welcome to the 19th century.



Rofl, i see we're 4th place in viewers :p USA-Brittain-Canada-Holland lol

Polish being immigrants in holland is a normal thing. It won't last forever, just a natural problem that almost every country has and is supposed to solve as part of the EU. Don't think Poland won't have that problem too, it has already started there from what I know, just in a lot smaller scale. In the next 10-20 years everyone from the far east will start immigrating to eastern europe, because it's "closer".
So you'll have a lot of time to rest, while they're gonna take the heat.
 
Something else we got is the F22 Raptor. Not sure what Russia has for warplanes. Can't be anything remarkable.

Why can't be? it has MIGs, which are considered to be the best fighting planes in the world if i'm right( Those latest models i mean). But Russia has only started mass production of them.
 
Well...i'd say around 15 years, before Russia fully rebuilds itself. Here are some facts why:
*Nuclear power - Russia has built an undetectable nuclear missle type(announced it around a month ago), something the US is far behind on atm.
*Military power - currently under modernisation, weaker than the US in numbers, but a lot of newer equipment is better than what the US currently has (though many can speculate, i agree).
*Political power - You can notice that Russia is gaining a lot of influence lately, while the US is rapidly loosing it.
*Economical power - Well...you know, Oil, Gas, Metal. But the only difference between them is that Russia has gas deposits, while the US doesn't. Russia and Iran if i'm correct are the only countries that do in major amounts(That's why USA raises fists at Iran ;) ).
*Major territories - both large enough.

The US military has vastly superior equipment compared to that of the CIS. The F-22 is (or rather will be, as it is only included here becuase we are talking about the future) more than a match for any of thier aircraft, the only thing that comes close is the EuroFighter Typhoon (possibly also the Saab Grippen and the Dassault Rafiel), and even the British ... has admitted the superiority of the Raptor. The F-35 is also superior to just about anything the Russians have to offer. This is most notably due to thier stealth characteristics, as thier weapons are not due to be upgraded past their current levels (things like the AMRAAM are staying in service with the US, where as Europe is phasing them out for the superior MBDA Metior missile, and the sidewinder is to be replaced with the IRIS-T and ASRAAM, depending on user. The F-22 would depend on its stealth capabilities inorder to defeat the superior range of the Typhoon.)

It tanks are definetly inferior. They are still based on the old soviet doctrines and as such have vastly inferior armour, less powerful weapons (the Russians do not use DUAPFSDS rounds, but rather inferior steel ones) and even thier old advantage of speed has been erased by the latest generation of American/Europien tanks. The M1A1/A2 is more than a match for any T-72 or T-64 variant.

Attack helicopters, again, the US wins out. Its latest generation of AH-64D's and AH-1Z's are more capable in the attack role than the primary Russian helicopter, the Mi-24 Hind, and the latest generation of Russian attack helicopters are either known to be inferior (Mi-28 Havoc) or have been adopted in such small numbers that they are only in use supporting the Spetsnaz and other elite units (Ka-50 Hokum).

Aside from direct comparisons, also remember that Most of the old eastern-bloc is much less closely alligned with Russia that it was. Indeed many have become members of NATO and are applying for EU membership. This brings them much closer to the US than thier Cold War era allies.

I firmly believe that the CIS will not be the new world superpower. My money is on China, India and (if they can properly unify) the Europein Union.
 
Much as my taiwanese heritage hates to admit it, I'd put my money on China overtaking us in 50-75 odd years.

Not in the traditional, or Cold-War sense, however. In a nuclear armed, closely interlinked world, the classic definition of Superpower is not quite as applicable. The amount of influence a country has in the world is now closely linked with how strong and economy it has, because one failing country will inevitably drag every other one down as well. Military power is almost irrelevant, because ICBM's with nukes will trump just about any form of "warfare". Superpowers are now basically defined by the possesion of nuclear power and their economic power/influence.

And America's economic influence is declining, and most of the really powerful people know it. Global businesses are starting an unopposed outsourcing trend, which seems to be the start of a slow, tacit removal of bussiness from the USA. It started with the production factories, and now its working up to the employees. No one wants the USA to crash, because that would drag the rest of the world with it. Instead, other countries are waiting for the USA to pass away quietly, and individually gaining the ground we lose.

And whoever said we're self-sufficient, that is pure, unadulterated bull-shit. We may have entire states of cropland, but it takes LOADS of gasoline (petrol to you foreign types) to distribute that food to the rest of the country. Never mind the demands of personal cars, power plants, petroleum based products, and whatnot else. And believe me, we don't have nearly enough of the black stuff.

And since most global companies are outsourcing to China and India, that gives them a high advantage. And China and India haven't had close to a century(?) to replace all infrastructure with a gasoline based highway system.

So why China? Because China has had a head start. The Chinese government has begun to buy up oil and started major construction projects (Three Gorges Dam). India? As far as I know, they haven't done much, though if anyone can tell me otherwise I'd like to know.
 
The US military has vastly superior equipment compared to that of the CIS. The F-22 is (or rather will be, as it is only included here becuase we are talking about the future) more than a match for any of thier aircraft, the only thing that comes close is the EuroFighter Typhoon (possibly also the Saab Grippen and the Dassault Rafiel), and even the British ... has admitted the superiority of the Raptor. The F-35 is also superior to just about anything the Russians have to offer. This is most notably due to thier stealth characteristics, as thier weapons are not due to be upgraded past their current levels (things like the AMRAAM are staying in service with the US, where as Europe is phasing them out for the superior MBDA Metior missile, and the sidewinder is to be replaced with the IRIS-T and ASRAAM, depending on user. The F-22 would depend on its stealth capabilities inorder to defeat the superior range of the Typhoon.)

It tanks are definetly inferior. They are still based on the old soviet doctrines and as such have vastly inferior armour, less powerful weapons (the Russians do not use DUAPFSDS rounds, but rather inferior steel ones) and even thier old advantage of speed has been erased by the latest generation of American/Europien tanks. The M1A1/A2 is more than a match for any T-72 or T-64 variant.

Attack helicopters, again, the US wins out. Its latest generation of AH-64D's and AH-1Z's are more capable in the attack role than the primary Russian helicopter, the Mi-24 Hind, and the latest generation of Russian attack helicopters are either known to be inferior (Mi-28 Havoc) or have been adopted in such small numbers that they are only in use supporting the Spetsnaz and other elite units (Ka-50 Hokum).

Aside from direct comparisons, also remember that Most of the old eastern-bloc is much less closely alligned with Russia that it was. Indeed many have become members of NATO and are applying for EU membership. This brings them much closer to the US than thier Cold War era allies.

I firmly believe that the CIS will not be the new world superpower. My money is on China, India and (if they can properly unify) the Europein Union.

I ain't talking about Eurocopters :dozey: .
However, US claims one, while Russia says another. It's all business. No country (with a sane military industry ;) ) will admit " yes, our ones are worse" because it will mean noone will buy it from them, and instead buy the one from the winners.
Russia has it all in smaller numbers as of now, but still i think many of their military technologies are better. It's a hard question that none official dares to answer (like i've written why).
As for Nato borders in eastern europe, who cares. China is becoming Russia's ally and it will mean a lot more to them than having those "cold war era allies" , which are only now rebuilding their military. :)
 
Why can't be? it has MIGs, which are considered to be the best fighting planes in the world if i'm right( Those latest models i mean). But Russia has only started mass production of them.

If Russia had good fighters they wouldn't be buying Indian Su-27s. :dozey:
 
a handful of guys with box cutters brought the US to their knees ..it wont take all that much to do it again ..the US is vulnerable because your ego has made you blind to the danger around you (that you self perpetuate) ...but your downfall wont come on the battlefield or through a loss of military might ...no it will be the economy that finally does you in

Fully agreed. The US government has been on the brink of financial collapse for some considerable time. The national debt is in the trillions (and the pit gets a billion and a half dollars deeper every day), the dollars overseas value is artifically held up due to it's fragile relationship with the worldwide sale of Oil. The entire country relies upon a wholly unsustainable way of living (you have to drive to everything). It's a House of Cards waiting for a light breeze to blow it over.

The 30 year 'contract' with Iran to procure Oil will have bought some time for the American way of life, but long term it's going to go the way of the Dodo.
 
It's depressing only to think about a ruined USA. Kind of Babylon alike, thought inderstructable at first, but nothing is - No empire lasts forever.
However, if there will be anything like a major crisis in USA, it will most likely cause unimaginable chaos. People will start raising hands, drawing swastikas, killing, discriminating, (everyone will start) robbing, looting at mass, there will be blood.
And one day when you come to New York, you won't recognize that it is it.
 
Don't be down Walter. Personally I'm quite optimistic about the future. Sure there is going to be a lot of bloodshed along the way, but where we are at as a species just isn't sustainable and there will come a point where we have to adapt. Some will make the leap and some will perish (generally those tied to the past). It's an exciting prospect, and we might just be lucky enough to catch the ride. ;)
 
A load of Asians falling from the sky and doing TaeKwonDo to everyone as soon as they land? I think South Korea would have their hands full with North Korea, let alone the mighty British people :cheese:.

But i would have to agree with Stern, when America falls, it'll fall due to the economy, not any sort of military takeover - there is a bigger chance that there'll be an American civil war than a foreign power invading. The next big super power though will undoubtably be China and probably India. Lots and lots of cheap labour, a lot of foreign money and corporations being invested in both countries...

"Civil War II" :D
 
it'll be the right vs left (or not right) ..the christian fundamentalists/die hard gun advocates/arayan brotherhood vs everybody else

once they've been slaughtered/put into concentration camps, Americans can march into the new century confident that it has eradicated ignorance and have taken bold strides towards a new era of enlightenment and understanding


hey I can dream
 
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