I didn't download the beta because...

[Scotty]

I cant be bothered with downloading why is floating around its pointelss. cting like lil 10 yr olds getting all excited about a new game thiking they be good cos they got it before its released. Just wait for teh full version.

 

[chu]

I didn't dload it because I am stuck with dial up. I like to live in the past and pull my hair out due to frustration of having no means of necessary broadband. I am getting all tingly all over just thinking about downloading a 5mb file in a half an hour. Joy!

 

[Superiority]

5 mb in a half hour? ur lucky... i had AOL and it went at like 0.87 kbps and it sux0red.... started at 56k then dropped within 1 second to that. well i got comcast....which pwnz0rz for downing but i do admit i liked aol's email system... i didnt download cuz i wanna save the experience, like my virginity. Also, my momma wont let me =] :-D

 

[Nuclear_Gerber]

I still support valve. I don't believe that by downloading the beta, and playing it quietly in my room, I hurt valve in any way.
I am still, ofcourse, gonna buy the retail game, when it's released. That was my intention all along. Hell, I even bought a new monitor and graphics card to enjoy hl2 more.
So the beta is nice...so what. It's not even 1/4 of the game. I've already spent 500$ on the game, 50$ won't make such a difference.
And valve own.

 

[buttabean]

i paid in full in july just to let you guys now. the only reason dled it was to play that tech demo i knew that wasnt going to be release before. i didnt even touch the rest.

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

I downloaded it but removed it because it's illegual... and for Valve
I

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

I think it was cool to play that for fun, and to see the tech, but I prefered removing that! I want also to tell to the valve hacker that it wasn't a good idea to leak HL², because of many reasons!! Bad job man!! Actually I don't know why hackers don't use their knowledge to make cool softs instead of doing shit! (please can you delete my previous message cos it wasn't finished. Thx)

 

[boblemoche0]

i voted
... I want to enjoy the full HL 2 experience.

but 2nd best awnser could be
... it goes against my personal moral code

yknow... its because the damn hackers the games delayed... why should i download that sh*t ???????

 

[ConSeannery]

i have no morals. i only care about myself. which is why i chose not to download the beta so that i dont detract from my experience when the game finally comes out

 

[nuts]

Normally I would leap at the chance to download an "evaluation" copy of any game, however I have enjoyed HL and it offshoots so much that out of respect for the developers I haven't even tried to look for the source or anything else leaked.

As soon as I heard about the leak, and the communities response I decided that money talks and bullsh!t walks so I have put my money where my mouth is and have prepaid at ebgames my HL2 game.

So I suggest if you are a true supporter to Doug and the team you do the same.

cheers :cheers:

 

[NYHoustonman]

It goes against my goddamn morals. This is a game that Valve has been working on for some time and I refuse to play it without giving them their dues whether or not they have handled the whole release situation in a good way. Besides that, I wouldn't want to ruin the game for myself.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by OCybrManO
You're counting the entire time Half-Life has been out as if you knew about HL2 the whole time and weren't having fun with HL?

You're not "waiting" for something until you know that it is coming...

... and you do know that they just went public with it several months ago, right?

If all you think about when you play a game is "When are they going to make a sequel?" you have a problem.

Not entirely true. Given how awesome Half-Life is, it was pretty much guaranteed that Half-Life 2 was going to come out.

Additionally, many magazines have asked Valve about Half-Life 2 long before 2003, and Valve always smiled and said No Comment, so it was not that much of a stretch to think that they would be working on it. As soon as I joined the Gman, I was curious about how Half-Life 2 would be like, and this is shortly after I beat the game.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by NeoNight
um not ture .... last I remember the devs get paided no matter what... and that its the retailers that lose out.




Hell if hl2 was released when valve swore it would of been released or at least given us a demo of sorts I wouldn't of bothered to play the game before it was meant to be played.

Developers get paid royalties, which come from software sales. The big thing about the MP3 argument (which I do not download) is that many big name artists do not mind MP3 sharing. The Offspring had planned to release an entire album on the Internet for free via MP3, but their Label said No Way Jose! That's what makes me upset.

Software developers do not want piracy because if the game does not sell well (even if it is popular), then the publisher pulls the funding!

Looking Glass Studios was one of the most innovative developers out there, and I know many many MANY people that played pirated copies of the Thief series or System Shock 2. But the games didn't bring Eidos (or Looking Glass) the $$$$, so they got canned. Same goes for Sir-Tech...they got canned because they didn't make the money.


As for Valve releasing a demo or something....why are people so impatient? Had Valve released the game on September 30th, people wouldn't only be hacking their security but busting down their front doors for releasing a game that was not finished. And making a demo takes time! Any time dedicated to a demo takes away from finishing the game....which will only piss people off more because they're too self-centered and demanding. I was looking forward to playing Half-Life 2 on September 30th, but when it got delayed, I understood that that sort of stuff happens ALL THE TIME in the computer industry. I don't think that Valve lied to me or anything like that....they were busting their butts to get it out at that time, and they couldn't do it. They were wrong, but all the people demanding apologies are kinda silly. These people are slaves to their obsession and will say anything to rationalize their behaviour in their own minds.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by hunteraz
people downloading games dont hurt the companies nearly as much as the people who steal them from the drop shipments, pre-orders, mail centers, etc, and copy the boxes, cds, and pirate them and sell them for profit.

Argh! What's the name of this tactic again....

Rationalizing your actions as not being as bad helps you to justify your decisions (we've seen it in this thread a few times already). However, pirating software does indeed hurt game companies, moreso than people may think. And this even includes the people that "wouldn't have bought the game in the first place."

Software Piracy causes Market Failure with respect to market forces.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
you apparently haven't been reading any of the posts in the thread.
but ill say it again.

you and me both have seen the e3 videos. we know whats in them, we know what some of the enemies are now. the only difference between me and you is that ive interacted in these same sequences. i dont know any more of the plot than you do. understand?

But when we install the game from our purchased copy, all aspects of the game will be new, and much more "wow" than it will be for you.

In this sense, our experience of the game (particularly initially) will be higher than yours. Generally speaking, this increased satisfaction will subjectively mean that we will get more for our money, in a purely economical perspective (which is obtaining maximum satisfaction for the price).

 

[Athlon7]

Pontificating about morals in these instances is incredibly inane, and elevating HL2 to a platform far beyond what it really is. If someone downloaded the beta it breaks no moral code that I know of. You guys need to focus on other things in life where morals matter. Just my .02! Downloading and leaking the source code, however, is just plain dirty.

 

[poseyjmac]

yeah! whats with all this pontificating, guys? you guys are pontificatogrophers! hah!

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by murgh bpurn
yes the initial act is all of the above, but, it's now there, in the public domain. why can't people look if they want to!

Being in the public domain does not make it public domain. Illegally obtained software does not lift any restrictions that may have been placed on the intellectual property.

Looking at the code could very well provide alternative companies solutions to their own programming problems. This is at the expense of Valve, with no acknowledgement in their direction. And before anyone says that no real computer company would do it...dream on. It takes virtually no time to modify code enough in such a way that it no longer looks like Valve's.

Additionally, the reason why people would use this code for their own advantage is because programming, for the most part, is problem solving. If something took years for Valve to make efficient, anyone can look at it and "learn" the solution to the problem in a matter of minutes. It's reverse engineering. It also sounds like there is sensitive code among the beta, namely relating to Steam and how it keeps track of personal information and credit card information...information that no other person should be looking at.


As for justifying those that would not use the code for personal gain, it still stands that the game is not in the state that Valve would want it to be in. It will force people to make forward statements about a product that might not accurately resemble the final product. Finally, downloading the beta implicitly supports the actions of the one that hacked into Valve's networks. This is how the situation can be deemed "immoral" to those that still do the same thing with "mere" software piracy. Refusing to download the beta on moral standards could mean that you do not support people illegally gaining access to other peoples intellectual property. Hence, people can still claim morality, without violating any of the morals that you previously stated.


On a final note about morals, simply breaking morals in your past does not mean anything. People change. Based on my own personal beliefs and what I had learned about alcohol, in High School I was actually very much AGAINST alcohol (albeit not very publicly....I'd rather not face the stigma that would come from a hardliner perspective on this topic). However, as I grew up and began to understand a bit more about the reasons for drinking (rather than just the consequences), I developed a better understanding of the situation. I still don't drink, but I certainly do not in any way try to stop other people from enjoying alcohol responsibly. To summarize, my moral standpoint of alcohol moved from a hardliner perspective to a much more flexible perspective.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by Non-Sequitur
I can't vote. I've played it... Really, you learn nothing more about the game than you would have if you watched the E3 trailer. There is LESS in the beta than there was in the E3 videos. Those of you saying you don't want to ruin anything for yourselves, did you watch the E3 videos? If so, you've ruined the game for yourself just as much as you would have by playing the beta.

Granted, there's a few maps with a bit of storyline in them.... but they're so incomplete that you really can't make anything out of it. The only thing really worthwhile in the beta is the physics room. That is all. Many of us were expecting to play the ENTIRE game by September 30th, so what's the harm in having a play around with some of the stuff we've already seen almost 9 months ago?

Your expectations are a weak argument, as games are delayed all the time.

As for "ruining" the game, this comes from much more than the storyline, but from the experience. When I perform a task that I saw in the E3 demo for the very first time, I will be like "Cool! It's just like in the E3 demo when person X performed action Y. Hahaha this is awesome."

People that have played the beta will not have this effect, because they have already played around with some of the weapons and the physics of the game. There will be interactive elements of the game that are no longer new, but still will be to those that did not play the beta.

As to whether or not this is truly a good reason not to download the beta is purely subjective. I am simply commenting on how seeing can be quite different from an experience point of view, which can result in the game being "less impressive."

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by svet-am


Does that make it right, hell no. I'm still pissed that someone did it. But, Valve can't cry and complain about it because they were asking for it.

Perhaps that's why, for the most part, Valve has been relatively quiet about the situation.

 

[alanschu]

Originally posted by Athlon7
Pontificating about morals in these instances is incredibly inane, and elevating HL2 to a platform far beyond what it really is. If someone downloaded the beta it breaks no moral code that I know of. You guys need to focus on other things in life where morals matter. Just my .02! Downloading and leaking the source code, however, is just plain dirty.

I think that this is where a lot of the "morals" comes into it. By downloading the beta, you implicitly support the actions of hacker. Therefore, it is possible to see this as immoral.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by alanschu
I think that this is where a lot of the "morals" comes into it. By downloading the beta, you implicitly support the actions of hacker. Therefore, it is possible to see this as immoral.

no hes right. there is no tangible loss for anyone by downloading the beta. if anything it will give valve more profits, because once people play it they are stoked about what they see, knowing its still beta but very promising.

this whole moral issue is something people are dreaming up in their head to fool themselves into thinking they are being chilvalrous for valve. now if you talk about software piracy of a released product, then this moral issue has tangible impact. and ive said it before, the only tangible impact we have on valve(besides the hacker) is giving our $$$ when the time comes hl2 to be on shelves/steam. until that time comes you and downloaders of the hl2 beta are NO different to valve.

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

I'm almost sure many of you have already downloaded it... at least once, even if removed it later

 

[DeToX07]

i havent downloaded anything, the extent of my downloads for half-life 2 are the trailers that valve released

i just dont want a beta version, even if its beta gold... i wanna wait till the full version is released so i can have fun killing aliens legally

now i am not gonna lie it's not like ive never downloaded software i just dont wanna download HL2

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

Ok, and I think that ain't really us that ValvE wanna track, cos we're only poor users and dlers, but their're looking for the hackers! Cos that's their falt if HL2 is leaked, not our falt, isn't it?

 

[hell_on_toast]

I didn't get because I feel its extremely unrespectful to a team of people that has worked extremely hard to make a great game.
However we could have had news of the delay sooner.:bonce:

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

Sure, that's why I removed it from my computer... that's not cos I don't wanna go to jail (it's impossible, the police won't look for everyone who dled the beta) but to have any respect for Valve

 

[Myke_Malicious]

I didn't download it due to the fact the "beta" was stolen. If Valve had released it themselves, I would have been all over it as I would love to see what it plays like.

But as it was stolen, it makes all the work these guys put into it seem trival and pointless. I'll more than happily plop down my cash for the full game, and enjoy a honest gaming experience.

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

Hope they'll catch the hacker!

 

[Solidarnosi]

Never touched the beta. I want to enjoy the game with all its surprises - I've seen enough already! strider/AI/physics. I want to be blown away, not just looking for what I already expect to see.

 

[Dolphin's Eye]

It's better, sure I love commenting...

 

[z2k]

Actually, I havent even thought about download it. Not even once. It would be like punch Valve in the face and I wont do that.

 

[poseyjmac]

Originally posted by z2k
Actually, I havent even thought about download it. Not even once. It would be like punch Valve in the face and I wont do that.

a punch in the face eh? so tell me whats this tangible blow that would be the equivelent to a punch in the face to valve? and how would they feel it?

 

[Hugo the Clown]

I had reservations about downloading the game footige from E3 because I thought it would make the hl2 game experience not as good. I ended up downloading a few clips and watched them, and ruined some things for my self.. I wont touch the leaked stuff on the pure princable that its stolen.

Ps. F#$k you Hacker, you screwed it for the rest of us you dumb ass.

 

[Kadayi]

I haven't downloaded it simply because I hate spoilers in storylines, although I was tempted just to see/experence the material physics capabilities, when things were a tad blank on the games front. Fortunately with H&D2 out and Call of Duty and Deus Ex 2 out soon there is plenty of gaming to keep my curiosity in check.

 

[Chris D]

Is H&D2 any good?

 

[z2k]

Originally posted by poseyjmac
a punch in the face eh? so tell me whats this tangible blow that would be the equivelent to a punch in the face to valve? and how would they feel it?

Have you ever developed a game? If you have, you know how much you look forward to the release when you will present your work to the public. Now Valve wont have the fun of doing that. No doubt they will "feel" that.
I know my download or not download will not have any effect. At all. But it's a matter of attitude and respect for others work.

 

[Elanthril]

Show some respect !

Everything about showing respect to Valve or any other groups that worked on the game is true. Being in their place, I would love to see the guy who did that fall off from a cliff (don't worry he would still be alive at the bottom)

I didn't even checked for screenshots from the game because ALL I want is the final version of Half-Life II... My expectations for this game are very high and I don't want to be disappointed by some "Pre-Gold Beta Alpha Omega Gamma silver version"... So I'll just wait for the release...

 

[Kiro]

I downloaded it, I played what I could of it. I do not feel bad about it, nor do I feel I have done Valve damage.

Why? Because they have received global attention and exposure far beyond what money could buy, the downloadable version does not work in any respect as a 'game', I have put a pre-order for the game after seeing the engine at work on my pc, I have told my friends just how incredible it looked and some of them have also made pre-orders.

Stop trying to manipulate people's emotions in such a shallow and childish manner.
- That is not a comment necessarily directed at the poster of this thread, but at this site and the Half Life fansites in general. Trying to demonise people for being curious, saying they don't support Valve etc, is not a comment founded in reality. The same kind of thinking made people who didn't support an unjustified war "unpatriotic".. or worse, on the side of terrorists.

Valve teased the world with footage, left many jaws dropped and resting on the floor - then firmly promised a date when the game would be released. No if, no but, a firm date.

To leave your security wide open after disappointing so many gamers was a extremely stupid thing to do in this day and age.
We live in a time when anyone on this board can name a song, tv program, movie or game, from any year or for any system, and it can be downloading to your hard drive within a few minutes of brief searching. That's a reality for every form of entertainment, Valve is not a 'special case' as some seem to suggest.

You cannot blame people for downloading this after the hype Valve thrived on at E3. If Eminem fans download Eminem mp3's and Matrix fans download Matrix movies, why do you expect Valve fans to be holier than thou when similar opportunities become available?

If this site continues to take such a hard moral line, let's take a look at your hard drives. How many legit copies of Photoshop will there be? What about Windows itself?

Half Life 2 is going to be a phenomenal success - and it would be even if the full, playable game was available for download right now. Stop acting like such innocent cherubic angels, casting scorn on curious fans.

 

[poseyjmac]

good post kiro. too true