If it isn't one thing, it is another.

[Bodacious]

Gun ownership is illegal in the UK, correct?

Are axes going to be illegal now?

Man held after daylight axe murder

 

[kirovman]

We have a really severe anti-social problem in the UK.

I don't think legislation of guns would solve anything.
Can just imagine the charvers playing with guns in the streets, they're too stupid to get guns illegally now, but if it was legal there'd be mayhem.

Anyway this axe murder seems a bit of a one-off, so to speak.

 

[No Limit]

I don't think legislation of guns would solve anything.
Can just imagine the charvers playing with guns in the streets, they're too stupid to get guns illegally now, but if it was legal there'd be mayhem.

You would be amazed at how easy it is to get a gun illegally; much easier than getting it legally.

 

[kirovman]

You would be amazed at how easy it is to get a gun illegally; much easier than getting it legally.

In the UK, possibly.

But if it was that easy, I'm sure all the charvers would have them. Just about everything else they do is illegal anyway.

 

[No Limit]

In the UK, possibly.

But if it was that easy, I'm sure all the charvers would have them. Just about everything else they do is illegal anyway.

I know it's extremely easy here in the US and with your tight regulations I wouldn't be suprised if it was easier there.

If you are in to crime you know people that are in to crime; chances are at least one of those people will be able to find you a gun. These illegal guns are usually dirt cheap too so almost anyone could afford them if they really wanted to.

 

[kirovman]

The city I am living in is one of the gun crime capitals of this country...on the other hand, my home region is virtually gun-free.

The police force are really stretched here to control it.

Of course the guns are in the hands of the drug dealers.

Bastards.

I'm going to get out of here as soon as I can.

 

[jondy]

Are axes going to be illegal now?]

Did the article mention anything about banning axes?

Pretty shocking murder

 

[Bodacious]

Did the article mention anything about banning axes?

Pretty shocking murder

No, but is it not the next step? I mean, you banned guns so this guy just went and picked up an axe and murdered siomebody. The axe is clearly at fault here. If axes were banned then he wouldn't have murdered that person.

 

[CptStern]

ah come on bodacious you're jumping the gun here (pun intended) ..an axe is not designed for killing, a gun is.

 

[kirovman]

No, but is it not the next step? I mean, you banned guns so this guy just went and picked up an axe and murdered siomebody. The axe is clearly at fault here. If axes were banned then he wouldn't have murdered that person.

Axes are needed for chopping down trees, woodwork etc.

What do guns do? Shoot tin cans off walls and kill things.

 

[No Limit]

Axes are needed for chopping down trees, woodwork etc.

What do guns do? Shoot tin cans off walls and kill things.

You are forgetting protection. If you make guns illegal who will have guns? The criminals will.

 

[Bodacious]

ah come on bodacious you're jumping the gun here (pun intended) ..an axe is not designed for killing, a gun is.

Axes are too desinged for killing, look at this one here!

This axe has to represent all axes...because it is an axe....and it is designed for killing people!

 

[CptStern]

it would kinda be useless to ban guns without making it extremely difficult to buy/improt etc ...most of the guns involved in crimes (in canada) were either stolen or purchased on the black market which usually gets it's guns from the US. Only a complete ban would work ...and then only after a number of years so that guns have a chance to disappear all together

 

[kirovman]

You are forgetting protection. If you make guns illegal who will have guns? The criminals will.

Here we are allowed to use "reasonable force" for protection - probably using a cricket bat or something handy.
Anyway with home guns, they are in the hands of a (usually) inexperienced owner. Chances are the intruder would use this very gun against the owner, even if they entered the premises unarmed (I've heard this kind of story before).

I think putting the guns in the hands of civilians is a risky matter, would you trust your neighbour to use a handgun in a correct way? I'm not sure I would.

I don't think I'm going to be a victim of guncrime for the very reason that they are banned here...just some unlucky heroine user who didn't pay up will fall victim to it.

Police presence needs to be increased too, I would say.

But there's not many people in the UK who would agree with legislating guns, for the very reasons above (and a few more I should imagine). Not even the Conservatives.


Bodacious, that axe probably would be illegal here, unless the blade was blunt or protected.

And you're not even supposed to carry a potent knife on your person here. You'd get serious jail for that.

 

[CptStern]

Axes are too desinged for killing, look at this one here!

This axe has to represent all axes...because it is an axe....and it is designed for killing people!

it says right on it:

"highly decorative for serious collectors only"


btw was this the same axe used to kill the person in the article?


is this gun

the same as this:

 

[No Limit]

it would kinda be useless to ban guns without making it extremely difficult to buy/improt etc ...most of the guns involved in crimes (in canada) were either stolen or purchased on the black market which usually gets it's guns from the US. Only a complete ban would work ...and then only after a number of years so that guns have a chance to disappear all together

But you will never get them to disappear. Most people have no clue how easy it is to buy a gun illegally; if you have around $50 and some friends that aren't exactly moral citizens you can have a gun in your hands tonight. Canada would especially be affected by this as it would only take a few hours to hop the border to Detroit.

 

[Bodacious]

it says right on it:

"highly decorative for serious collectors only"

So what? Some dude coudl sharpen it up, notihng is stoppig him.

btw was this the same axe used to kill the person in the article?

No, but it doesn't matter. Because axes are used to kill people all the axes are evil and should be banned!

is this gun


the same as this:

Both are made to kill people, no?

 

[PvtRyan]

Gun ownership is illegal in the UK, correct?

Are axes going to be illegal now?

Man held after daylight axe murder

Stupid comparison. Axes are not sold as weapons (of self defense) but as a tool. A gun is only designed with the purpose to kill, or have you found a good way to make pizza with it?

And the threshhold of using a gun is much lower than bashing into someone with an axe, it's way easier to pull a trigger from a distance, than to murder someone with your own hands.

Care to give numbers of Axe related murders vs Gun related murders? I'm eager to see them.

By your reasoning cars should be banned because more people die of car accidents than gun accidents. You can fabricate a weapon out of anything, the threshholds of that vs picking up a gun are somewhat different though.

 

[CptStern]

Both are made to kill people, no?

no, the flintlock doesnt work, it's a decorative piece

a more apprpriate example would be:

 

[kirovman]

The way I think of it is...if we make handguns illegal, the criminals are just going to get automatic rifles.

If we make those legal, they are probably going to come armed with RPGs and grenades.

Maybe not so extreme, but the criminals are going to want to be one step ahead.

So I think we should allow the police to tackle the issue rather than the vigilante groups.

It's very very rare (per capita) that someone gets gunned down for no reason (you hear about it in the news for that fact that it's so shocking). Most shootings are drugs related in some way (in this city anyway). If you are an ordinary citizen you are not likely to be affected.

I don't think legislation of guns in the UK is a good idea at all. For our case, it would increase the problem. If you understood the anti-social behaviour here, you might agree.

And the threshhold of using a gun is much lower than bashing into someone with an axe, it's way easier to pull a trigger from a distance, than to murder someone with your own hands.

I agree.

Also if you carry an imitation gun in the UK, the police have the right to gun you down if you look threatening (better safe than sorry).

 

[Bodacious]

Stupid comparison. Axes are not sold as weapons (of self defense) but as a tool. A gun is only designed with the purpose to kill, or have you found a good way to make pizza with it?

Evidently you didn't see my previous post on page 1.

THere is a picture of an axe designed to kill. That means all axes are designed to kill, right?

Of course not, pull your head out of yoru ass. Guns are designed for 2 reasons, Sport and defense.

And the threshhold of using a gun is much lower than bashing into someone with an axe, it's way easier to pull a trigger from a distance, than to murder someone with your own hands.

I disagree, unless said trigger puller is at point blank range or has experience with firearems. Chances are the average person couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if their life depending on it. Shooting guns accuratly isn't easy.

Care to give numbers of Axe related murders vs Gun related murders? I'm eager to see them.

By your reasoning cars should be banned because more people die of car accidents than gun accidents. You can fabricate a weapon out of anything, the threshholds of that vs picking up a gun are somewhat different though.

Sorry, not my reasoning, anti gun hippies' reasoning. I am clearly being sarcastic with my ban axes diatribe.

 

[CptStern]

btw bodacious why stop at axes?


using your warped logic we can also ban these things:

 

[Bodacious]

no, the flintlock doesnt work, it's a decorative piece

A decorative piece isn't a gun. If it isn't functional it isn't a gun.

a more apprpriate example would be:

That is a toy. Big deal.

 

[kirovman]

I disagree, unless said trigger puller is at point blank range or has experience with firearems. Chances are the average person couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if their life depending on it. Shooting guns accuratly isn't easy.

Hahaha, all the more reason to ban them from the average citizen.

And the arguement for guns is that people should be allowed to defend themselves if their life depended on it?

That is one of the reasons why I disagree with legislating guns.

I'm not going to trust my neighbour with a gun.

 

[Bodacious]

btw bodacious why stop at axes?


using your warped logic we can also ban these things:

Your sarcasm meter is broken.

It isn't my logic. That logic belongs to anti gun nuts, not me.

 

[CptStern]

no, you're twisting it and warping it beyond recognition ...you know perfectly well an axe designed to chop wood is not the same as a gun designed to kill

 

[Bodacious]

no, you're twisting it and warping it beyond recognition ...you know perfectly well an axe designed to chop wood is not the same as a gun designed to kill

No shit I am twisting it. Is CptStern your secret Identity? Are you realy Sherlock Holmes?

Guns aren't desinged to kill people, at least the majority aren't.
The majority of axes aren't designed with killing in mind either, but there are ones that are desingned for killing people, too.

THe majority of guns are made for sporting, being hunting to target shooting and competition. The majority of people buy guns for sporting. Only a fraction kill people.

What is that one line that says something like:
"65million gun owners didn't kill anyone today"

My point is, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Banning guns only makes people pick up an axe or a shovel or whatever.

 

[No Limit]

btw bodacious why stop at axes?


using your warped logic we can also ban these things:

Ahhhhh Boobs, deadliest weapon on earth which will lead to the downfall of man.

 

[Kangy]

Ugh. I hate it when people speak without actually looking at the facts:

A gun: designed to kill people, kills innocents who're inexperienced/in the way/joking about/the first thing for a nutjob to get at. Can be regulated, but it's hard. This is more due to corruption/idiocy/lack of funding.

An axe: useful tool, everyone has one, quite hard to use incompetently, few people chop their own heads off, one nutjob takes an axe to one person. Hard to regulate, because it's such a common and useful tool that can be crafted by the user if they're really desperate. A few decorative axes kill exactly... How many? Not many.

Really, Bodacious. We have no gun culture, so we'll never be quite as desperate for a murder weapon as you guys are.

 

[No Limit]

Ugh. I hate it when people speak without actually looking at the facts:

A gun: designed to kill people, kills innocents who're inexperienced/in the way/joking about/the first thing for a nutjob to get at. Can be regulated, but it's hard. This is more due to corruption/idiocy/lack of funding.

An axe: useful tool, everyone has one, quite hard to use incompetently, few people chop their own heads off, one nutjob takes an axe to one person. Hard to regulate, because it's such a common and useful tool that can be crafted by the user if they're really desperate. A few decorative axes kill exactly... How many? Not many.

Really, Bodacious. We have no gun culture, so we'll never be quite as desperate for a murder weapon as you guys are.

The majority of guns in this country (I'll have to agree with Bodacious on this) are designed for hunting. However, what a gun is used for is really missing the point. The main point is if you ban guns all you are doing is banning guns for legit citizens; the criminals will continue to posses guns.

 

[Bodacious]

Ugh. I hate it when people speak without actually looking at the facts:

A gun: designed to kill people, kills innocents who're inexperienced/in the way/joking about/the first thing for a nutjob to get at. Can be regulated, but it's hard. This is more due to corruption/idiocy/lack of funding.

An axe: useful tool, everyone has one, quite hard to use incompetently, few people chop their own heads off, one nutjob takes an axe to one person. Hard to regulate, because it's such a common and useful tool that can be crafted by the user if they're really desperate. A few decorative axes kill exactly... How many? Not many.

Really, Bodacious. We have no gun culture, so we'll never be quite as desperate for a murder weapon as you guys are.

Guns aren't designed to kill people. It is not their primary purpose, at least not today. Today guns owned by the civillian populace are made for sport of some kind.

 

[Bodacious]

The majority of guns in this country (I'll have to agree with Bodacious on this) are designed for hunting. However, what a gun is used for is really missing the point. The main point is if you ban guns all you are doing is banning guns for legit citizens; the criminals will continue to posses guns.

Thank you.

 

[kirovman]

My view:

People are inevitably going to be killed by other people, no matter how much we don't like it.

I don't want to make it any easier for people to kill each other by providing them with the tools to do so.

When I look at an axe I think 'woodcutting'

When I look at a gun I think 'killing things'

Axes are needed in society. Guns aren't. We need cars too, but they kill people too.

If we banned cars, and axes, we'd have to go backwards into a dark age or something. Banning guns from the public wouldn't send our society backwards though (unless you're expecting a backlash of violence)

That's just my view. I wouldn't call myself an anti-gun nut (because most of my fellow countrymen agree with me, so I wouldn't think of myself as a raging maniac, with the evil agenda of banning all guns )

Really, Bodacious. We have no gun culture, so we'll never be quite as desperate for a murder weapon as you guys are.

QFE. No gun culture here apart from all those sucka gangstas about a very very small minority though.

 

[PvtRyan]

Evidently you didn't see my previous post on page 1.

THere is a picture of an axe designed to kill. That means all axes are designed to kill, right?

Of course not, pull your head out of yoru ass. Guns are designed for 2 reasons, Sport and defense.

You do what with a gun as a "sport"? Kill stuff right? Then is a gun an object designed for no other purpose than to kill? You can't say this of an axe, other than it's sharp and heavy nature makes it a good weapon too.
(btw, if you'd use an axe to hunt I'd respect it, something I can't say of hunting rabbits with high powered rifles)

I disagree, unless said trigger puller is at point blank range or has experience with firearems. Chances are the average person couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if their life depending on it. Shooting guns accuratly isn't easy.

Could you point me at the sentence where I mentioned the required skill it takes? No, I did not.

I am talking about the emotional treshhold of using either objects, would you disagree with me the action of pulling a trigger with your finger has a lower threshhold than picking up an axe and chopping someone to bits while his inner organs and blood start to cover your face?

Sorry, not my reasoning, anti gun hippies' reasoning. I am clearly being sarcastic with my ban axes diatribe.

No, it's not anti-gun "hippies'" (am I one?) reasoning. Their reasoning: weapons are not a nice thing to have, therefore they should be banned, guns are weapons, therefore guns need to be banned. Anti-gun hippies do not consider an axe any more of a weapon than a pen or kitchen knife, simply because they are not, so therefore; axes, pens and kitchen knives should not be banned.

Get it?

 

[No Limit]

You do what with a gun as a "sport"? Kill stuff right?

Hunting, target practice, killin some Iraqis (oh wait). You have to also take in to account many people collect guns as a hobby; just like some collect knives, axes, swords, whatever.

I am talking about the emotional treshhold of using either objects, would you disagree with me the action of pulling a trigger with your finger has a lower threshhold than picking up an axe and chopping someone to bits while his inner organs and blood start to cover your face?

Just out of curiosity, have you ever shot a real gun before? It took me a lot of practices at the shooting rage to get skilled in hitting a target with my Beretta. And this was under no stress situations shooting at a nonmoving target. Because of this most people that actually try to kill someone with a gun end up shooting them close range; no different than using an axe. In 90% of the cases where you hear of someone shooting at a target from far away the case ends up as attempted murder as they don't hit the target. You also have to take in to account that a 9mm round isn't nearly as deadly at large distances so many times when that happens the person ends up surviving as the bullet doesn't do any serious internal damage. Not sure how many listen to rap but take 50 cent as an example, that guy got shot 9 times, including the face, and lived. He is just one case out of so many.

 

[kirovman]

Hunting, target practice, killin some Iraqis (oh wait). You have to also take in to account many people collect guns as a hobby; just like some collect knives, axes, swords, whatever.

You don't have to collect the live ammunition though.

 

[No Limit]

You don't have to collect the live ammunition though.

Yes you do. That's like saying if you collect cars you don't need to collect gasoline. Part of the kick of collecting guns is being able to go to a shooting range and fire a few rounds just like when you collect cars it is exciting to go for a ride.

 

[kirovman]

Yes you do. That's like saying if you collect cars you don't need to collect gasoline. Part of the kick of collecting guns is being able to go to a shooting range and fire a few rounds just like when you collect cars it is exciting to go for a ride.

Ok, well as I said before, I don't trust the people in my neighbourhood to be able to use guns as much as I'd trust them with 'the big red button'

I want to collect explosive devices, like nuclear bombs. Is that acceptable?

 

[jondy]

**** it. I'm not going to argue about axes, because it's ****ing stupid. Our country, our rules, we don't ban axes, 'nuff said. :E

Oh, and I think this argument, dumb as it is, is pretty rich coming from a country where firearms are legal

 

[No Limit]

I want to collect explosive devices, like nuclear bombs. Is that acceptable?

Only if you want Bush on your ass.

As far as I know you can't really go out and hunt nor go to target practice with a nuke without destroying a few villages or cities.