Iraq, the US & other stuff too

[king John I]

i sense some people here dont like america

*glances at hyped*

but its ok, people like what they like, sausages are sausages.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by mrBadger
Dresden was a terrible mistake, the firestorm was devastating, we destoryed a beautiful city... but anyway:

We need to set up rules to deal with Terrorists, since they operate outside any country.

I don't think we inteded to kill those people in a firestorm....I don't even think they knew there was going to be a fire storm.Like I said before....we killed innocent civilians but did we do it because we hated them to death because of there beliefs!!!!NO!!!

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by king John I
i sense some people here dont like america

*glances at hyped*

but its ok, people like what they like, sausages are sausages.

I like sausages....damn...now i'm getting hungry.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

tr0n, it might seem like were all getting mad and sarcastic with each other--but don't be worried; were infact learning and talking.

tr0n, for any one of us, Badger, You, Me, anyone out there: the moderators etc. This is a discussion thats lively and constructive; the first of its kind were we can shed our viewpoints.

This has my stamp of approval--I love you all and your points Fun learning! Serious tho...this is one awesome thread.

 

[Tr0n]

What part of Britian do you live in badger???I have a lil bucket thing full of twinkies and chocolate cupcake type things....this should fill me up.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Oh and tr0n?

I don't think we inteded to kill those people in a firestorm....I don't even think they knew there was going to be a fire storm.Like I said before....we killed innocent civilians but did we do it because we hated them to death because of there beliefs!!!!NO!!!

THEN JUST WHY THE HELL DID WE BOMB IT?!



"Every German city that constitutes a structure of morale for the settings of Hitler's National Socialism must be removed or shown the downfall of their party leaders--we want to scare and immobilize the general population from the thought of resistance to our oncomings"

-Winston Churchill

So then Bomber Harris took up the issue in his own hands.

 

[Tr0n]

Damn't guys lets take a break.....now excuse me while I go eat!!!We bombed maybe because they were trying to take out some industrial target....hell I don't know....I'm getting hungry....

 

[Kadayi]

The vietman war was run using a system of determination called the body count. Basically because the veitnam war was very much guerilla based, it wasn't a clearly defined Geographically like a conventional conflict. So the only way in which the top brass could determine how well they were doing was based upon Casualty counts. The basic notion was that for every US GI that was killed during a month if 10 Vietcong also died then effectively the war was being won. As long as the targets were met then the top brass could report that all was going well to the president.

The great problem with statistics is that they can be fudged, so consequently before you know old grandma lei (a civilian) who gets caught in the cross fire was getting marked down as a VC casualty in order to improve the body count tally. Certainly I don't believe Civilians were deliberately shot to improve the statistics, but liberties were taken with regard to what constituted Civilian as opposed to VC casualties.


IMNWME>Thread Jackers Inc

 

[king John I]

these wars are in the past. many mistakes were made, you dont need to defend all the little points, you'll tire yourself out

mmm, bucket of twinkies and sweets, now i'm hungry.

spread the love, become a hippee.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by king John I
these wars are in the past. many mistakes were made, you dont need to defend all the little points, you'll tire yourself out

mmm, bucket of twinkies and sweets, now i'm hungry.

spread the love, become a hippee.

True True....I wish I could give some to you guys...but sorry.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
IMNWME>Thread Jackers Inc

I do not understand????Whats IMNWME???

 

[ComradeBadger]

I'm somewhere in Kent, of and Ker, I'm a supermoderator... so I keep this thread open

Anyway... This is very interesting

Vietnam was a huge mistake, and you cannot compare Iraq to that.

 

[Tr0n]

That TJI thing reminds me...Where the hell is mrwhite, bass, and Tred???Am I the only one left???? ;(

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by mrBadger
Vietnam was a huge mistake, and you cannot compare Iraq to that.

I'm just highlighting the idiocy of the Cowboys(Good) and indians(Bad) attitude regarding the conduct of the US military. War is an ugly thing and the stains run deep on all sides.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

*hands him a <cookie of choice>*

Polokov gets a cookie. Could'nt have said it better.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Tr0n
I do not understand????Whats IMNWME???

LOL :dozey:

 

[ComradeBadger]

Oh come on, we aren't children, we understand the impact of war, but I still think the war was right and justified. Just wondering, what form of ethical thinking does everyone follow? Utilitarianism to a point myself..

 

[Kadayi]

Re: *hands him a <cookie of choice>*

Originally posted by K e r b e r o s
Polokov gets a cookie. Could'nt have said it better.

Polokov opts for a mint choc chip

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
LOL :dozey:

Damn't man tell me!!!Anyways I think we should get back on topic....the title on the thread says Iraq, the US, & other stuff too so we got the US and IRAQ part debated with....now we got to tackle the other stuff...so someone start it off.Fine I will......So guys whats your opinion on the Palestine and Israel thing???

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by mrBadger
Oh come on, we aren't children, we understand the impact of war, but I still think the war was right and justified. Just wondering, what form of ethical thinking does everyone follow? Utilitarianism to a point myself..

Pretty much most doctrines religious or Philosophical offer up very valid ethical practices. It is only when the letter as opposed to the spirit becomes the law and dogma replaces common sense, that extremists tend to come to the fore (like Osama for example).

From Christianity I'd say 'Do unto other's are you would have them do unto you' is probably the one thats sticks to mind the most personally.

The Writings of Lao Tzu (Dao De Ching) are also quite insightful once you get to grips with the core philosophies.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Tr0n
Anyways I think we should get back on topic....the title on the thread says Iraq, the US, & other stuff too so we got the US and IRAQ part debated with....now we got to tackle the other stuff...so someone start it off.Fine I will......So guys whats your opinion on the Palestine and Israel thing???

Ariel Sharon is a very scary man, he is so right wing it beggars belief that the world lets him have Nuclear weaponary. I don't think that there will ever be any prospect of peace in the middle east whilst he is leading the government in israel, and I don't believe he has any intention of looking for it either. He is wrapped too tight for humanity.

 

[Tr0n]

Reason why is he is like that is because he use to be a part of the military and was a part of anti-terrorist type thing.But of course theres never going to be peace there.In my opinion palestine should have never started a war with them in the first place.Like in war you keep the territroy you get.Only part the palestines may get in the near future is the Gaza strip and thats about it.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Dedalus
one thing that amazes me, how can the UN be pushing for a one world religion?! i can understand a one world government and leader, but religion?! oh please, save it. you try converting all the arab countries from being muslim to whatever religion they choose. you try pushing your ideologies onto people who just couldn't give a ****. religion has a very bad side, in that it brings conflict wherever it is. when two religions clash, you're going to hear about it. look at the crusades, christianity vs. islam. the same is happening in our day as well.

rant over.

Because they think all wars are backed by religious beliefs. Thus, if we all believe the same thing; no more war. Of course this is untrue. To enforce such a thing would take extremely violent measures, and a war on a global scale. Such a thing is what I like to call "False Peace." The One World Govt. would surely shut off such areas, and spread propaganda to keep control of conformed areas.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Ariel Sharon is a very scary man, he is so right wing it beggars belief that the world lets him have Nuclear weaponary. I don't think that there will ever be any prospect of peace in the middle east whilst he is leading the government in israel, and I don't believe he has any intention of looking for it either. He is wrapped too tight for humanity.

5,000 Palestinian terrorists with bombs strapped to them is a heck of a lot scarier, IMO

 

[Tr0n]

Yea it's not just Ariel Sharon...as long as jews are in the middle east there will be no peace.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Re: Re: Re: Wow.

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Shit...........it's like vietnam never happened with you :dozey:

Not that bad things didn't ahppen in Vietnam, but that war happened for a reason. Too bad our Govt. treated our soldiers like crap, sending in small waves to get slaughtered by the Charlies...We should have sent them in all at once. Anyway, this isn't about Vietnam, but if it was; I have some great evidence to back up that war, too. Like the fact that Communism is bad. There are reasons for both Nay-sayers, and Supporters to make valid points. But in the end, it's something neither of us can change. We can only hope to make a better future.

BTW: Tr0n, you and I are brothers, too.
I would've said that earlier, but I had to leave.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Tr0n
Yea it's not just Ariel Sharon...as long as jews are in the middle east there will be no peace.

Wow tr0n, I never expected you would post racist grabage like that. Anyway I don't like this thread .. so bye

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by Tr0n
Yea it's not just Ariel Sharon...as long as jews are in the middle east there will be no peace.

Wha?!? How are the Jews a problem?

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Originally posted by K e r b e r o s
tr0n, it might seem like were all getting mad and sarcastic with each other--but don't be worried; were infact learning and talking.

tr0n, for any one of us, Badger, You, Me, anyone out there: the moderators etc. This is a discussion thats lively and constructive; the first of its kind were we can shed our viewpoints.

This has my stamp of approval--I love you all and your points Fun learning! Serious tho...this is one awesome thread.

Well, it seems we can agree on something. Nicely done, Kerberos.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by GhostValkyrie
Wha?!? How are the Jews a problem?

I'm not saying they are a problem...i'm just stating that theres never going to be peace there.To tell the truth I think all of Israel belongs to the jews.But of course you and me know that bible thing and probally know whats going to happen in the future.Sorry about my post up top if it sounded like I was saying there a problem....Kinda worded the sentence wrong.

 

[pat_thetic]

This is ridiculous.... Why don't we give the pows in cuba feasts every night! And let them sleep on feather mattresses, and have beautiful woman stay with them! Give them millions of dollars!

Anyways, back on subject, Palestine and Israel will never stop fighting till Yasser Arafat(sp?) is exiled....

 

[Alzxul]

The Jews didn't 'get' Israel in the 'bible thing' . They received it in when Britain and France decided to give away the land they owned in that area in the middle east. In fact when it was being split up the Jews even said they would share with the Palestinians, however the Palestinians said they wanted either all or nothing.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by Alzxul
The Jews didn't 'get' Israel in the 'bible thing' . They received it in when Britain and France decided to give away the land they owned in that area in the middle east. In fact when it was being split up the Jews even said they would share with the Palestinians, however the Palestinians said they wanted either all or nothing.

I'm not talking about that bible thing.I was talking about something diffrent.Anyways that kinda proves my point.Actually Israel was a very tiny country before there first war.It was way smaller than it is now....but noooooo the arabs had to attack them and for that the palestinians lost some of there land.

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by LoneDeranger
5,000 Palestinian terrorists with bombs strapped to them is a heck of a lot scarier, IMO

Why?, please provide a full exposition on this point. Also can you clarify your figures.

Sharon is a '**** you' leader, who is guilty on several counts of human rights abuses in his treatment of the palestinians. The only reason he continues to operate is because he has the west to support him. He consistently gives the arab nations the finger whenever the opportunity arises, on the basis that no ones prepared to square up against the USA. Certainly I don't condone the actions of the palestinians, but Sharon is a provocator whose arrogance and presumption could easily send us spiralling into a third world war.

Unfortunately the middle eastern conflict is so drowned in the tenement of 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth' as a way of life, that any attempt at rationalisation is near impossible. Frankly killing a person because their grandfather killed my grandfather is so patently stupid that it defies belief. Does killing them actually bring my grandfather back? No. So two people died, and nothing was gained, bar the prolifation of further violence.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Certainly I don't condone the actions of the palestinians, but Sharon is a provocator whose arrogance and presumption could easily send us spiralling into a third world war.

Only reason why i'm quoting you on this part is because of that ww3 thing.So you to believe in that revaltions thing in the bible to???

 

[Kadayi]

Originally posted by Alzxul
The Jews didn't 'get' Israel in the 'bible thing' . They received it in when Britain and France decided to give away the land they owned in that area in the middle east. In fact when it was being split up the Jews even said they would share with the Palestinians, however the Palestinians said they wanted either all or nothing.

Well the problem was that the land Britian and France so 'generously' gave away to the jewish people was that it belonged to the palestinians originally (that's why they were pissed). This stuff all goes back to the days of lawrence of Arabia and the occupation of palestine by the Turks. Providing the jewish people with their own state was a noble idea, but the manner in which it was done was a complete balls up.

 

[Alzxul]

Sorry about that comment earlier Tr0n, I thought you were speaking about something else.
I think it's a bit unfair to say how bad Ariel Sharon is without saying how bad Yasser Arafat is, or vice versa. I guess we should have a total change of leaders, might get us moving somewhere . I think a US-led type peace plan is a good idea though.

 

[Tr0n]

Originally posted by Alzxul
I think a US-led type peace plan is a good idea though.

Well looks like were going to be back on that america topic again....

 

[Alzxul]

Well I thought I should say something to try and keep on topic... since I thought this thread was all about the US and so forth

 

[Murray_H]

Originally posted by Alzxul
I think a US-led type peace plan is a good idea though.

Which is a little ironic seeing as the US are currently leading a war on terrorism.

(Is it ironic? Of the many ways to interpret the English languange i have never really understood irony)