John Edwards calls for mandatory military service

[MiccyNarc]

Christ, just get a job in construction. I've got a friend that waves a damn flag all day and gets paid $20 an hour to do it.

 

[No Limit]

Christ, just get a job in construction. I've got a friend that waves a damn flag all day and gets paid $20 an hour to do it.

Not a lot of construction jobs left around here in new mexico. Why pay a white person $20 /hr when you can pay a brown person a quarter of that? :naughty:

 

[repiV]

I can't believe you just said most people in the military are republicans. Where the hell do people get this bullshit from? The political split around the military is the same as in other sectors. Don't believe me then you can look it up, I don't have time to do your homework for you.

Talking to a lot of US military people might just have something to do with it?

You just said that the military is very attractive for people living on low income, then why in the hell did you attack me earlier for saying the exact same thing? Yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part people that join the military come from a poor background. This is the whole point you got so pissy about earlier and that point is that the poor are fighting our wars. If rich people made up a large part of the military the way we went into wars would be totally different.

So WTF is your problem with the military being attractive for people on low incomes? That's a far cry from what you were saying, like there is some kind of humanitarian issue where poor people get conned into a life of hell and misery in the military (total bullshit).
Nonetheless, the military attracts a wide scope of people with a wide range of interests - you'll probably find that most people in the Navy and Air Force come from wealthier, more intellectual backgrounds than people in the Army and Marines. Many military jobs require a great deal of intellectual and technical skill and a first-class educational background. It's considerably harder to become a fighter pilot than it is to become a stockbroker.
Yes, obviously it would be totally different as the rich infantry would clearly be making executive decisions.

 

[No Limit]

Talking to a lot of US military people might just have something to do with it?

Obviously you don't talk with a lot of them.

So WTF is your problem with the military being attractive for people on low incomes? That's a far cry from what you were saying, like there is some kind of humanitarian issue where poor people get conned into a life of hell and misery in the military (total bullshit).
Nonetheless, the military attracts a wide scope of people with a wide range of interests - you'll probably find that most people in the Navy and Air Force come from wealthier, more intellectual backgrounds than people in the Army and Marines. Many military jobs require a great deal of intellectual and technical skill and a first-class educational background. It's considerably harder to become a fighter pilot than it is to become a stockbroker.
Yes, obviously it would be totally different as the rich infantry would clearly be making executive decisions

You really are an ass. I just read Stern's post here:

you continually avoid issues by either putting words into your opponents mouths or acting the part of the asshole with a chip on his shoulder

I now see exactly what he is saying and he is 100% right. I never said anything remotely close to what you are trying to say I said.

 

[CptStern]

lol stern thinks med school is the only way of being successful.
my dad makes 130k a year with basic High School education,

yes and you went to harvard? yale? you studied at the sorbonne? vacationed in the alps during offtime from your studies at Oxford? apples to oranges; we're not talking about the same thing here

so spare us with that socialism crap

wtf are you talking about? I have yet to espouse socialist ideology, I've maintained throughout that inequality in education is purely financially driven ..that's it nothing more ..if you cant see the reality behind that statement then you're a fool

if you want something here in the states you can make it,you just have to give a %120.

bullshit, a factory worker will never send his kids to harvard ..tutition/board/books etc is almost twice his salary. That very fact cuts off opportunity for his kids from the very beginning ..there's no C students in public schools who become president

chances are they will become productive members of society but in all likelihood they will never afford to send their kids to harvard either.

 

[Sidewinder]

I go to a frigging Community College.

 

[repiV]

Obviously you don't talk with a lot of them.

Bullshit. The same is true in any country. Conservatives are over-represented in the military, for obvious reasons such as they tend to be more nationalistic, more pro-military and less pacifistic. They are generally of the "the world is a brutal place where everyone is out to get each other" mentality, whereas liberals tend to believe people are all actually quite alike and world peace is a viable goal.
Hippies don't do the military. Socialists don't do the military. Liberals rarely do the military. Peaceniks don't do the military.
Same way conservatives become salespeople and liberals become musicians.

You really are an ass. I just read Stern's post here:


I now see exactly what he is saying and he is 100% right. I never said anything remotely close to what you are trying to say I said.

Well what the **** are you saying then? If you have no point then why are you whining about poor people being overrepresented in the military? Are you just expressing your knowledge of random facts?

 

[No Limit]

Bullshit. The same is true in any country. Conservatives are over-represented in the military, for obvious reasons such as they tend to be more nationalistic, more pro-military and less pacifistic. They are generally of the "the world is a brutal place where everyone is out to get each other" mentality, whereas liberals tend to believe people are all actually quite alike and world peace is a viable goal.
Hippies don't do the military. Socialists don't do the military. Liberals rarely do the military. Peaceniks don't do the military.
Same way conservatives become salespeople and liberals become musicians.

Until you get me some facts behind that you are talking out of your ass. And I know once you do your homework you will understand why you are full of it. [sarcasm]Remember, poor people seem to lean toward the democratic side .[/sarcasm]

I will agree republicans might have a minor majority in the military, but its not as wide as you seem to suggest it is.

Well what the **** are you saying then? If you have no point then why are you whining about poor people being overrepresented in the military? Are you just expressing your knowledge of random facts?

I am not saying what you are assuming I am saying. Reread my posts, until then don't put words in my mouth.

 

[repiV]

Until you get me some facts behind that you are talking out of your ass. And I know once you do your homework you will understand why you are full of it. [sarcasm]Remember, poor people seem to lean toward the democratic side .[/sarcasm]

I would, but I can't seem to find any actual data on the subject. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

I will agree republicans might have a minor majority in the military, but its not as wide as you seem to suggest it is.


I am not saying what you are assuming I am saying. Reread my posts, until then don't put words in my mouth.

Why don't you put me out of my misery and just tell me what the hell you are saying? So as to save me from thinking you're actually not saying a whole lot.

 

[delusional]

I have a friend who is going to join the marines and he isn't poor and he hates Bush.

 

[Stigmata]

That may be true, but what's stopping the factory working for advancing

Well for one, only 1 out of 10 lowly factory workers are going to advance their position, and that's an optimistic figure. No, nothing really stops one worker from advancing, but one worker's advancement means that none of the other workers get to take up that advanced position to get the money they need to pay off the mortgage to get enough spare money to put in a fund to save up to send their kid to college/uni.

what's stopping the working for teaching himself what exploits need to be exploited.

Why should a worker have to go hunting for obscure exploits of the "system" to give himself and his children a fair chance?

It's all about making ourselves marketable. We might work 9 to 5 and we might be clocked out, but what's stopping us for taking interest in what need to further our own success, what's stopping us from building our resume?

What stops most people is real life. Nobody has endless free time between day shifts. They need to sleep, eat, pay bills, take care of kids, go grocery shopping, provide for their family, and at the end of a day, not many people have more than a few spare dollars and minutes to put towards their futures.

 

[repiV]

I always find the "factory worker" angle amusing, as it must have some kind of emotive quality but in real life is totally irrelevant as we have so few factory workers left I've never met one in my life.
As for well-paying "working class" jobs, there are many. Often they pay better than most white-collar work. Motorcycle couriers in London can get paid up to ?35,000 if they're really good. Plumbers get paid more than that, electricians are also well paid...and pretty much everyone these days is capable of working in an office.
If someone can't plan their career well enough to achieve the financial results they require then that's their fault alone. It's not and should never be my problem if someone sucks too much to get paid the money they need to finance the lifestyle they created. It's not your right to be given money out of someone else's pocket.

 

[15357]

I'm going to say something that you all should believe for your own safety.


Capitalism for the motherf*cking win.


The world isn't fair. Live with it.

 

[HunterSeeker]

In sweden no educational institution may charge for their services, instead the goverment gives them a certain amount of money per student they are teaching. It works VERY well.

 

[HunterSeeker]

The world isn't fair. Live with it.

It is smart to realize that life is not fair, it is even smarter to realize that somethings needs to be done about it.

 

[repiV]

It is smart to realize that life is not fair, it is even smarter to realize that somethings needs to be done about it.

Define "fair". Your definition of fairness no doubt involves the mandatory confiscation of money from people who have earned it, to give to people who haven't - I'm at a loss to figure out how exactly that is fair. It's legalised robbery.

 

[HunterSeeker]

Define "fair". Your definition of fairness no doubt involves the mandatory confiscation of money from people who have earned it, to give to people who haven't - I'm at a loss to figure out how exactly that is fair. It's legalised robbery.

Oh please, like the entire purpose of the institutions known as corporations is not to limit the responsibility of its owners without limiting their profit.

 

[repiV]

Oh please, like the entire purpose of the institutions known as corporations is not to limit the responsibility of its owners without limiting their profit.

The entire purpose of corporations is to make money. That's what businesses do, genius.

 

[15357]

In sweden no educational institution may charge for their services, instead the goverment gives them a certain amount of money per student they are teaching. It works VERY well.

Well, here in Korea, we have zillions of private "educational institutions" which concern themselves with mostly tutoring to help students in school, or foreign languages, etc.. They're expensive, but they get you to good universities.

On the other hand, public schools are the same in Korea as well.

It is smart to realize that life is not fair, it is even smarter to realize that somethings needs to be done about it.

Like what? What are you supposed to do about the difference of people's abilities and sometimes just plain luck? The goverment keeps people from starving, and that should be just it. No standard of living should be equaly affected on the entire populace.

 

[Kyorisu]

So I guess underfunded public schools have nothing to do with this? Excusing that at least in Aus for University the government will cover all your fees until your able to pay them back. Do many other countries have a similar policy? So even if your poor as long as your work hard through the pain in the arse high school system you can easily score a position in Uni without having to worry about not being able to afford it or rely on your parents.

 

[HunterSeeker]

The entire purpose of corporations is to make money. That's what businesses do, genius.

Buisnesses yes, corporations serve to protect the buisnessmen from the law by accepting their responsibility (a corporation is a legal person).

 

[repiV]

Buisnesses yes, corporations serve to protect the buisnessmen from the law by accepting their responsibility (a corporation is a legal person).

Great, another loon...

 

[15357]

Buisnesses yes, corporations serve to protect the buisnessmen from the law by accepting their responsibility (a corporation is a legal person).

What?

 

[CptStern]

If they can't get a scholarship for medical school and can't afford it then I guess they'll have to choose a different profession until they can get in, won't they?

yes, waiting tables till they can afford medical school that makes a lot of sense ..should take about 20 years ...really repiV I'm not buying this "I'm from skid row" routine you constantly play up ..i mean how can you be from skid row if you have no conception of how the real world works? ..how can a student without financial assistence save the 10's of thousands of dollars needed for a single year at university and still afford a roof over his head and food on the table ..I mean have you never met working poor? they're usually one paycheck/missed bill payment away from homelessness

Just because they can't in this instance follow their dream doesn't mean they can't lead a fulfilling life. Most people don't get to follow their dreams, me included. That's just life.

we're not talking a dream here we're talking about a post secondary education ..many working families cannot afford to send their kids to university; that's a fact ..and without university there is next to no chance you will ever be a professional

Then get a better job or start your own business?

you dont work do you? you also live in a $50 million dollar mansion with no windows, doors or outside influence because from where I'm sitting it really seems that way... I mean if you really have to fend for yourself you wouldnt have made that statement implying it's really just a simple matter of getting a new job or starting your own business ..most businesses fail within the first year, getting a better job usually means more education ..all involves more money ..perhaps they should quit their day job and focus on school

In my line of work, you get paid for how good you are, not how many hours you work. And you don't need any qualifications either.

and? you countradict yourself by limiting success in your job by stating:
"you get paid for how good you are" ..obviously not everyone can be good or else there would be no measure for "good" ..in any event certain things like lack of education can prevent people from getting even the most mundane of office work ..they're also usually low paying

No shit. So why don't more people become businessmen?

what does that have to do with anything? there's only one Branson ..why arent all businessmen as rich as he is?

Am I supposed to slit my wrists because people can't always get paid the money they want for the work they want to do?

yes because that's exactly what I said: I'm lamenting the fact that people dont get paid $75 an hour ..you keep attributing statements to me that I never made ..it's a tranparent tactic that seldoms works ..all it ever does is drag me into another multi page quote war where I spend the entire time countering your rediculous interpretation of my first post ..each new point I bring to the table you twist and spin to mean something entirely different and then we spend the next 3 pages repeating the process ad nauseum ...it's really tiring because nothing is ever accomplished

If you don't have a solution, then your feelings on the matter are totally irrelevant.

you just repeated what you said earlier ..what does that have to do with anything? stop attributing statement to me that I never made ..you just cant answer something a straight forward manner can you?

You're right, it isn't.
All theory no practicality? Bullshit. I didn't go to university, I even missed three years of high school. I was in such dire poverty we used to take it in turns to eat crappy food from a single bowl, and lived in a horrendously bad council estate.

yet somehow the practicallity never sunk in? how can you be from skid row if you have absolutely zero insight into what it means to be on skid row ..I mean zero

Didn't stop me going where I want to go, because I don't take the easy route and blame it all on "the man".

again that's exactly what i've been saying from the very beginning ..it's all the "man's" fault ..tell me could you have been a doctor? engineer? lawyer? teacher?

Don't talk to me about realism.

why not? you dont seem to be very familiar with it so I dont see the harm

Also, if I'm all theory and no practicality, why did I pick a career that is all practicality and no theory?

oh I dont know, lack of education to open up the doors to a career that is all theory seems to be the most obvious reason

Where if you stop to think about what you're doing, you're told to get the **** on with it and make some money.

you mean like pretty much every job?

So why are you arguing for more state control,

where? point out exactly where I said this ..

when evidently the state is the most incompetent and inefficient method of accomplishing anything?

due to lack of funding it's always about funding ...what's that old saying?

If you want good education for everyone, then schools should be privately operated

again unrealistic ..private schools are far more expensive than running a comparable public school system due to lack of built in infrastructure and sheer numbers of students ..private institutions COULDNT operate on the scale a public school could ..not nation wide ..not without a heavy influx of cash from ..oh I dont know ..the government? ...then there's regulation, standardization of ciriculum, social issues etc ..how soon do you think there would be a rise in religious fundamentalist schools or schools pushing an agenda .."Pepsi's Boston University, providing you with a future in a career with Pepsi related products", "Humaities 101, brought to you by the Phillip Morris Corporation, because we care", "International Relations 201, brought to you by Haliburton" ..also private institutions are profit motivated ..usually doesnt go too well with an educational system

(with the freedom of choice that comes with having so many options)

only to those who have money

and the government should provide means-tested funding and scholarships for education.

it would be much more expensive than public school that would be controlled/regulated by the government

 

[repiV]

yes, waiting tables till they can afford medical school that makes a lot of sense ..should take about 20 years ...really repiV I'm not buying this "I'm from skid row" routine you constantly play up ..i mean how can you be from skid row if you have no conception of how the real world works? ..how can a student without financial assistence save the 10's of thousands of dollars needed for a single year at university and still afford a roof over his head and food on the table ..I mean have you never met working poor? they're usually one paycheck/missed bill payment away from homelessness

What, the only career option available to someone who can't afford medical school is waiting tables?
You're completely talking out of your arse, particularly as in, let's take the USA, all students get financial assistance to attend universities within their home state. Your $40,000 figure is complete bollocks, the only American university that expensive is MIT and over 90% of students there are given financial help. They will also get student loans.
Even I could get numerous sources of financial assistance to study in America from American institutions, and I'm not American.
Most US universities charge in the region of $10-20,000 a year, and that's for out of state and international students.
Over here, we get interest-free student loans so the cost of university is largely irrelevant as a barrier to undertaking higher education.

we're not talking a dream here we're talking about a post secondary education ..many working families cannot afford to send their kids to university; that's a fact ..and without university there is next to no chance you will ever be a professional

I'm a professional and I earn more than probably 95% of university graduates my age do. In fact I earn significantly more than most people in this country and I'm only 21. What were you saying again?
Just some examples of professions open to people without degrees...public relations, marketing, sales, recruitment, investment banking (the highest paid of all careers), commercial pilot, police, IT, management, accountancy...the list goes on and on.
Either which way, my parents couldn't afford to send me to university either, but that's irrelevant because I would bear the cost via student loan repayments after my degree. A cost in time and money I found simply not worth the effort. I've worked in recruitment and I can tell you right now that a degree is of very little value outside of certain specialist industries - once you have proven yourself in the workplace, it's almost completely irrelevant.

you dont work do you? you also live in a $50 million dollar mansion with no windows, doors or outside influence because from where I'm sitting it really seems that way... I mean if you really have to fend for yourself you wouldnt have made that statement implying it's really just a simple matter of getting a new job or starting your own business ..most businesses fail within the first year, getting a better job usually means more education ..all involves more money ..perhaps they should quit their day job and focus on school

Of course I work, Mr. Conspiracy Theorist.
I didn't say it was simple, that's really not the point. The fact is, it's your responsibility to improve yourself and the opportunities are there for you to do so. It's complete bollocks to say that you need more education to get a better job also. My manager at my old firm came from a very working class family and had a background in construction before he went into recruitment - he went on to bring in ?1 million in revenue per year for the company before he went on to manage and I have more respect for him than almost anyone I've ever met.
University is as much an easy route out for people who can't be arsed to get a real job for a few years as it is a necessary step along a path.

and? you countradict yourself by limiting success in your job by stating:
"you get paid for how good you are" ..obviously not everyone can be good or else there would be no measure for "good" ..in any event certain things like lack of education can prevent people from getting even the most mundane of office work ..they're also usually low paying

If you can't get the most mundane of office work without a degree, there's something very wrong with you. Likewise someone who would go into mundane office work with a degree.

what does that have to do with anything? there's only one Branson ..why arent all businessmen as rich as he is?

Because he's shit hot and they aren't?

yes because that's exactly what I said: I'm lamenting the fact that people dont get paid $75 an hour ..you keep attributing statements to me that I never made ..it's a tranparent tactic that seldoms works ..all it ever does is drag me into another multi page quote war where I spend the entire time countering your rediculous interpretation of my first post ..each new point I bring to the table you twist and spin to mean something entirely different and then we spend the next 3 pages repeating the process ad nauseum ...it's really tiring because nothing is ever accomplished

Sounds rather like you're describing yourself...

you just repeated what you said earlier ..what does that have to do with anything? stop attributing statement to me that I never made ..you just cant answer something a straight forward manner can you?

Well, what is your point? All you've really said so far is "waaaah it's unfair".

yet somehow the practicallity never sunk in? how can you be from skid row if you have absolutely zero insight into what it means to be on skid row ..I mean zero

Well you're totally wrong and full of shit. The practicality is that you work bloody hard and overcome the obstacles in your path and make a better life for yourself regardless of the odds against you. "It's impossible" and "this is my station in life" is a ****ing losers attitude and I have no time for losers.
People who whine about life being unfair instead of sorting out their problems will never get anywhere. Doesn't seem like you have much conception of climbing the ladder yourself.

again that's exactly what i've been saying from the very beginning ..it's all the "man's" fault ..tell me could you have been a doctor? engineer? lawyer? teacher?

I'm not remotely interested in being a doctor or a lawyer. I considered going to university to study Aerospace Engineering due to my interest in military aviation but decided it really wasn't for me. I am qualified to teach English as a Foreign Language and nearly went to teach in China but circumstances dictated otherwise. I kind of regret missing out on that experience though.
Though I currently earn more than I would as a teacher in any state school, and within my career have the capacity to earn far more than any doctor, engineer or lawyer can - so why would I care?

why not? you dont seem to be very familiar with it so I dont see the harm



oh I dont know, lack of education to open up the doors to a career that is all theory seems to be the most obvious reason

I chose not to go to university - I declined offers from some of the most prestigious universities in the country, because I considered it a fantastic waste of time and money and I thought I'd spent enough time learning and not enough time doing. I chose to do real world-focused work. It wasn't forced upon me.
With a background in sales I could potentially go on to do anything - run a company, start my own business, conquer the market...really, it is not my personal aim to be rich as I do my job for the buzz more than the cash, but if you want to be rich, sales and business is the best way to do it. And anyone can get a break in sales, all you need to do is prove yourself.

you mean like pretty much every job?

Hardly. Sales pressure is like no other job.

where? point out exactly where I said this ..

So what are you arguing for?

due to lack of funding it's always about funding ...what's that old saying?



again unrealistic ..private schools are far more expensive than running a comparable public school system due to lack of built in infrastructure and sheer numbers of students ..private institutions COULDNT operate on the scale a public school could ..not nation wide ..not without a heavy influx of cash from ..oh I dont know ..the government? ...then there's regulation, standardization of ciriculum, social issues etc ..how soon do you think there would be a rise in religious fundamentalist schools or schools pushing an agenda .."Pepsi's Boston University, providing you with a future in a career with Pepsi related products", "Humaities 101, brought to you by the Phillip Morris Corporation, because we care", "International Relations 201, brought to you by Haliburton" ..also private institutions are profit motivated ..usually doesnt go too well with an educational system

Well you get what you pay for. You can either have shit/average state education or average/good private education. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world with perfect solutions.

only to those who have money



it would be much more expensive than public school that would be controlled/regulated by the government

See above.