Judge rules Air Freshener probable cause for Police Search for drugs

[Krynn72]

oh come on this is not typical drug use, a small percentage of users are addicts or do it on a regular basis where it interferes with their life

I dont know about you, but I know several people who I cared about that screwed up their lives because of drugs. I dont even want to imagine how many of my friends or family members I would have to "come to terms with" if all drugs were legalized. Its inflicting unnecessary hardships on a society that already faces plenty of them as it is.

 

[CptStern]

I dont know about you, but I know several people who I cared about that screwed up their lives because of drugs. I dont even want to imagine how many of my friends or family members I would have to "come to terms with" if all drugs were legalized. Its inflicting unnecessary hardships on a society that already faces plenty of them as it is.

ok you need to quantify your statement, what drugs and how did they "ruin" their lives? and was it the drug that was solely responsible or did the people in question have some responsibility over their own lives?

oh and far far far more people's lives are ruined by alcohol or tobacco, you ask the spouse of someone with lung cancer wether their lives have been affected by tobacco use ...yet for some reason it's only drugs that ruin lives, not alcohol etc


oh and an addiction is an addiction for a reason ..I'm sure there's a huge percentage of people here who would be better off if they didnt spend so much time playing video games ..BAN VIDEO GAMES

 

[Qonfused]

...yet for some reason it's only drugs that ruin lives, not alcohol etc

I wonder why this is. Alcohol ruins many lives, but there's no exposure of it, no support groups or anything like all the hard drugs.

 

[CptStern]

but it doesnt have the stigma that drugs have ..there is no movement called "just say no to alcohol" or commercials that say "this is your brain on alcohol" ..they're all "drinking is ok just dont drink and drive"

 

[VirusType2]

I wonder why this is. Alcohol ruins many lives, but there's no exposure of it, no support groups or anything like all the hard drugs.

AA. Alcoholics Anonymous.


I know of at least one person that died directly from alcohol (liver damage), and others that have died in alcohol related car accidents.

I'm sure everyone knows someone that died or is dying from smoking cigarettes.

 

[Qonfused]

Throughout this entire thread, alcohol is being used as a drug for the pro side claiming that alcohol is a drug, so why is it legal if others are not. By that mindset, "just say no to drugs" would include alcohol, yes, by your argument?

Btw, I don't care too much about drug use. If you want to do it in your home, that's fine with me. Clean out the jails.

AA. Alcoholics Anonymous.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[CptStern]

Throughout this entire thread, alcohol is being used as a drug for the pro side claiming that alcohol is a drug, so why is it legal if others are not. By that mindset, "just say no to drugs" would include alcohol, yes, by your argument?

no, they're two dis-separate things ..for one, I didnt coin the "just say no", that would be Nancy Reagan and secondly "just say no" refers to drugs alone because it was part of the "war on drugs" campaign that targeted illegal drugs not legal

 

[Absinthe]

You should take some responsibility for the harmful feelings you cause to others, especially if it's someone who's in your family and shows concern for you (which they obviously do if they're getting worried and stressed when you're doing something detrimental to yourself)

This is a social nicety. There is no legal obligation to do so.

Just to remind everybody, we are discussing legalities here. Not your personal moral preferences. While I would hope you would have some respect for the feelings of others, that is not something that can or should be government-enforced. And if you feel that drugs should remain illegal, and therefore that their users should be criminalized as a result (this includes all of them and not just the two or three sad junkies you know in life), then you can't claim any high ground over the selfishness you imply others of.

 

[unozero]

ok then as it stands it is not legal to use the drugs we are talking about.

 

[Absinthe]

ok then as it stands it is not legal to use the drugs we are talking about.

That's a real stunning revelation there, uno. Care to bestow any more of life's great secrets upon us?

 

[unozero]

my beard isn't long enough yet.

 

[CptStern]

my beard isn't long enough yet.

long enough for what? to make you an honorary member of ZZ-Top?
long enough to prove to the world that you're past puberty?


enquiring minds want to know

 

[CyberPitz]

Just to throw this out and see what happens...

Peoples arguement *one of em* is that drugs should be legal because Alcohol and Cigarettes kill more people.

Well, think of volume. I mean, hell, that's like saying "Playing with TNT shouldn't be bad because people die in more car accidents!" or something obscene like that. Just to throw that there so that whole arguement, which is useless, will go away. Find real reasons and ideas to get it legalized.

 

[Absinthe]

Just to throw this out and see what happens...

Peoples arguement *one of em* is that drugs should be legal because Alcohol and Cigarettes kill more people.

Well, think of volume. I mean, hell, that's like saying "Playing with TNT shouldn't be bad because people die in more car accidents!" or something obscene like that. Just to throw that there so that whole arguement, which is useless, will go away. Find real reasons and ideas to get it legalized.

Except TNT has the destructive potential to destroy property, and kill and injure a number of people. And TNT has no other purpose than for blowing shit up. You don't play with it in your car, your home, or anywhere, because even "responsible" use by untrained amateurs carries a high risk of harming others.

So maybe instead of belting out some flawed analogy and acting like you've dethroned one of the most sensible and well agreed-upon reasons for legalizing cannabis, you actually deconstruct in detail why the reasoning is flawed. This is while keeping in mind the completely legitimate facts that marijuana is less destructive to the body than the other two drugs, less addicting, and thats its very physiological interactions upon consumption make it a very different drug that does not lend itself to acts of aggression and destruction.

 

[CyberPitz]

Holy shit, I never said MJ, quit throwing your arms up in defense when someone says anything but "I AGREE". I was talking mainly about those saying Crack and Meth should be legal.

I just said quit using "LEGALIZE ALL DRUGS BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE DIE TO THIS AND THAT!"

Yeah, say that to the court, it will fly easily.

 

[Absinthe]

Agree with me.

 

[Lucid]

Having air fresheners or anything hanging from your rear view mirror is against the law around here. :|

 

[CptStern]

ya but this happened in Maryland soooo ....

 

[CyberPitz]

Lucid, it should be. It's distracting. It's not like you can take those Garfield armsticky things and put them on your windshield, can you?

And absinthe, NO I WILL NOT. YOUR EVIL!

 

[CptStern]

I had two empty beer cans hanging from my rear view mirror along with a garter belt back in my university days ..not once did I get hasseled for it

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

I dont know about you, but I know several people who I cared about that screwed up their lives because of drugs. I dont even want to imagine how many of my friends or family members I would have to "come to terms with" if all drugs were legalized. Its inflicting unnecessary hardships on a society that already faces plenty of them as it is.

How many lives have been screwed up by things like 25 year sentences for possession? There are like 2 million people a year in the US arrested for drug crimes, and we incarcerate more than any other nation. 35 billion dollars a year sure would buy a lot of treatment and education...

 

[CyberPitz]

How many lives have been screwed up by things like 25 year sentences for possession? There are like 2 million people a year in the US arrested for drug crimes, and we incarcerate more than any other nation. 35 billion dollars a year sure would buy a lot of treatment and education...

Something tells me that money would go to a more 'explosive' cause!

 

[Krynn72]

ok you need to quantify your statement, what drugs and how did they "ruin" their lives? and was it the drug that was solely responsible or did the people in question have some responsibility over their own lives?

Ok, heres one example. My parents used to be addicted to cocaine. Throughout my childhood both of them would get angry and yell at each other over it and everything was incredibly stressful for me and my brothers/sister because we could never tell what mood our parents were in. It wasnt until my father was arrested for possession that they finally decided to stop and get help, and that was when i was into high school already. My childhood, while certainly not the worst childhood ever lived, sucked because of this.

oh and far far far more people's lives are ruined by alcohol or tobacco, you ask the spouse of someone with lung cancer wether their lives have been affected by tobacco use ...yet for some reason it's only drugs that ruin lives, not alcohol etc

I dont see how this helps your argument. If anything, it could be said that the reason why alcohol ruins more lives than drugs is because alcohol is legal and much more accessible, which is what you guys are arguing should be the case with drugs.

oh and an addiction is an addiction for a reason ..I'm sure there's a huge percentage of people here who would be better off if they didnt spend so much time playing video games ..BAN VIDEO GAMES

Some addictions are more harmful than others, alcohol and drug addiction isnt even in the same league as video game addictions, neither in terms of damage nor occurrence.

I had two empty beer cans hanging from my rear view mirror along with a garter belt back in my university days ..not once did I get hasseled for it

Thats because canadian laws werent invented until the 17'th century.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Ok, heres one example. My parents used to be addicted to cocaine. Throughout my childhood both of them would get angry and yell at each other over it and everything was incredibly stressful for me and my brothers/sister because we could never tell what mood our parents were in. It wasnt until my father was arrested for possession that they finally decided to stop and get help, and that was when i was into high school already. My childhood, while certainly not the worst childhood ever lived, sucked because of this.

I don't want to sound disrespectful here, but tbh just because your parents couldn't responsibly use it doesn't mean others cannot. I hate to keep bringing it up but if you replaced "cocaine" with "alcohol" it would sound just as legitimate ('cept for being arrested for possession). For the record, coke is a horrible drug imo.

Good to hear your parents quit btw.

I dont see how this helps your argument. If anything, it could be said that the reason why alcohol ruins more lives than drugs is because alcohol is legal and much more accessible, which is what you guys are arguing should be the case with drugs.

You think that just because something is legal that means people will take it? If alcohol was illegal, sure less people would be taking it, but it would be far more dangerous for you. Just look at some of the stuff that happened to people during the prohibition. Its the same now, you don't know what the hell is mixed with your drug.

Oh, and alcohol is no ****ing way more accessible. To buy marijuana all you need is ?25. Nothing else. No ID. No minimum age. I had tried marijuana before I got properly drunk.

Some addictions are more harmful than others, alcohol and drug addiction isnt even in the same league as video game addictions, neither in terms of damage nor occurrence.

It is irrelevant whether it is more or less harmful. The point is that I should have the right to use alcohol and drugs.

 

[Ennui]

I've never been sure about how I feel about hard drug legalization. I think a lot of the problems caused by hard drug use (addiction, overdoses, crime) could be tempered somewhat by being controlled and informing people, but I have firsthand experience (and plenty of observational data) that these drugs have addiction potential that is more powerful than some people's will.

So when it comes to cocaine, methamphetamine, or heroin, I don't know if I support legalization, but one can hardly contest legalizing marijuana, LSD, mushrooms, ecstasy and other soft drugs if you support alcohol and tobacco being legal.

 

[Gray Fox]

LSD is so nice, it's like illegalizing puppies.

 

[Krynn72]

could be tempered somewhat by being controlled and informing people

This is probably the biggest reason why I dont support the legalization of drugs. America will NEVER have the balls to teach people about anything important like this. Look at Sex Ed in this country... its a ****ing joke.

(In before "Krynn thinks sex is the same as drugs" comment)

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

What stuns me was the kneejerk reaction to LSD and shrooms and the like in the 60s, which was so big you can't use either for medical purposes, let alone recreational.

I've never been sure about how I feel about hard drug legalization. I think a lot of the problems caused by hard drug use (addiction, overdoses, crime) could be tempered somewhat by being controlled and informing people, but I have firsthand experience (and plenty of observational data) that these drugs have addiction potential that is more powerful than some people's will.

I agree there, but we do have too hard drugs legal already Besides, people would be much more open about they're addictions if these drugs were legal.

So when it comes to cocaine, methamphetamine, or heroin, I don't know if I support legalization, but one can hardly contest legalizing marijuana, LSD, mushrooms, ecstasy and other soft drugs if you support alcohol and tobacco being legal.

I'm not too sure about heroin either, as its sort of in a different class to even cocaine imo. But then, there is no point legalizing everything except one is there?

 

[unozero]

if one is more harmful then the other then whats the problem?


meth changes the chemistry of the brain,weed"only" kills a few brain cells
You said yourself that you cant those everything in one box,I don't smoke pot but it's one drug that I support the legalization of, but ONLY if treated the same like alcohol ie: no driving under the influence,age requirement etc...





EDIT:hey piggy do you actually know people that do cocaine on a regular basis?

also:ennui I wanna apologize for calling you names I just get easily butthurt when it comes to drugs.....
I also wanted to say that if you belong to a certain native american ttribe then it is legal to do a certain type of hallucinogenic (peyote )
Which is completly hypercritical (sp)

 

[Ennui]

^^^^^
I've been flamed a lot in the past five years here, but I haven't been apologized to nearly as much, so I appreciate it Some southwestern Native Americans can use peyote because it has been used culturally for religious uses by their people for thousands of years, that's pretty valid. A small sect of a Brazilian church in America is actually legally allowed to use ayahuasca which contains DMT, a very potent and illegal psychedelic, for the same reason.

This is probably the biggest reason why I dont support the legalization of drugs. America will NEVER have the balls to teach people about anything important like this. Look at Sex Ed in this country... its a ****ing joke.

(In before "Krynn thinks sex is the same as drugs" comment)

True, but I have a few thoughts.

First of all, drug education in this country cannot get any worse. The whole "abstinence instead of sex" education thing is wonderful in comparison (although of course it's still retarded) because at least it teaches you the basics about contraceptives and STDs. Current "drug education" by comparison would be the equivalent in sex education of saying "You will die / go to hell / suffer severe moral, social, and physical consequences if you have sexual intercourse". It could not possibly be more ineffective than it is presently, the system itself actually harms people. I can elaborate on that point if anyone wants me to, but I'm cutting that off here to avoid the Wall Of Text that I am so prone to making in these sorts of topics.

Secondly, by the time America is at a point where we could actually think rationally as a country / government about soft drug or hard drug legalization on a large scale, I think we might be a bit better at the education thing too. My opinion ideally would be to require licenses to buy, possess, and use legal psychoactive drugs of any kind (alcohol, weed, LSD, anything that's legal) for which you have to take a course about the drug (like Drivers Education) that ends in a test and you are given in-depth knowledge of the drug and what does or does not constitute responsible use. In addition they would be restrained by whatever laws governing drug use were in place (DUIs etc).

What stuns me was the kneejerk reaction to LSD and shrooms and the like in the 60s, which was so big you can't use either for medical purposes, let alone recreational.

Alas. It makes sense though, the psychedelic experience is terrifyingly alien and I imagine the establishment must fear it quite deeply for that reason (because they don't really understand it; neither do I). I hope the day where these can be explored for valid medicinal or theraputic use is soon, right now it's almost impossible to get a license to study them.

I agree there, but we do have too hard drugs legal already Besides, people would be much more open about they're addictions if these drugs were legal.

True but at the same time I don't think MORE legal hard drugs is good necessarily. Alcohol and tobacco are bad enough! The question is whether or not these drugs being legal would be better than the current situation... which I am sort of inclined to think is the case.

if one is more harmful then the other then whats the problem?


meth changes the chemistry of the brain,weed"only" kills a few brain cells
You said yourself that you cant those everything in one box,I don't smoke pot but it's one drug that I support the legalization of, but ONLY if treated the same like alcohol ie: no driving under the influence,age requirement etc...

All drugs change the chemistry of the brain for the duration of use, and I would love for you to show some valid sources for your statement that weed kills brain cells because currently we have no evidence that shows this. There was one study that showed brain cells being killed in primates in 60s but it was discredited for poor methodology; every other test done has come up negative for brain damage, even with highly sensitive modern equipment. You know what does kill brain cells, in large quantity? Alcohol.

Why is weed the only drug you support legalizing? e.g. on what grounds, and why not other soft drugs? You can ignore my post again if you want, but if you flame me again beware of the banhammer. PS responded to your edit in the top of this post.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

if one is more harmful then the other then whats the problem?

Lulwut?

meth changes the chemistry of the brain,weed"only" kills a few brain cells

I believe ennui has covered this.

You said yourself that you cant those everything in one box

Do you mean you can't know what they are, or what?

EDIT:hey piggy do you actually know people that do cocaine on a regular basis?

By regular do you mean daily, weekly, or what? I know one guy who plans his evenings around it, which is not a good sign...

 

[Ennui]

No it isn't. I know a lot of people that do coke regularly (weekly or a few times a week mostly) and only half of them could be considered responsible about it.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Alas. It makes sense though, the psychedelic experience is terrifyingly alien and I imagine the establishment must fear it quite deeply for that reason (because they don't really understand it; neither do I). I hope the day where these can be explored for valid medicinal or therapeutic use is soon, right now it's almost impossible to get a license to study them.

Its a shame, because so much potential is being wasted.

True but at the same time I don't think MORE legal hard drugs is good necessarily. Alcohol and tobacco are bad enough! The question is whether or not these drugs being legal would be better than the current situation... which I am sort of inclined to think is the case.

It is tough. I think the primary case against harder drugs is that they can affect other people as well (drunk driving and secondhand smoke being examples) and people can do all kinds of crazy shit while on a coke binge or using meth or something like that.

 

[unozero]

what I ment by comparing weed and meth/heroin/coke is that weed/alcohol is MUCH less harmful then the meth or whatever.
I can smoke a joint/have a glass of beer once in a while and still live a normal life ,have a job etc....BUT when you wanna shoot heroin it's very much differnt imho (emphasis in imho) there is no such thing as a repsoneble meth or heroin user...Thats the point I was trying to make.Cocain is another story but it also alters the person after a while I'm convinced of this because I know 2-3 people that do coke and they're lives are ****ed.

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

hey piggy do you actually know people that do cocaine on a regular basis?

I've known people who regularly used cocaine or even heroin, and maintained otherwise normal lives. That's one reason I feel we need to stop demonizing a particular set of substances, and deal with unsavory behavior. Just because someone likes to feel a particular way, even habitually, it doesn't mean they instantly become menaces to society. Definitely not deserving of being warehoused like cattle and used as slave labor.

I like Ennui's idea of a course for a license. I would think that after the taboo of prohibition wore off, there would be many fewer that use hard addictive drugs than there are today. The world may never know. (How many licks does it take to get to the center of a sensible humane drug policy?)

 

[unozero]

I honestly don't feel like responding to you techno. I don't wanna talk down to or something I'm sure your even a nice person but it would feel like arguing religion with someone from Utah (you seem so convinced that your right etc) maybe the same applies to me too....so I'm just gonna stop right here,okay?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

what I ment by comparing weed and meth/heroin/coke is that weed/alcohol is MUCH less harmful then the meth or whatever.

I think we can both agree on this.

I can smoke a joint/have a glass of beer once in a while and still live a normal life ,have a job etc....BUT when you wanna shoot heroin it's very much differnt imho (emphasis in imho) there is no such thing as a repsoneble meth or heroin user...

I agree with all of that except the last part. It is difficult to do, and I don't touch either of those, but this guy has used heroin several times and not got addicted. I wouldn't recommend it of course, its very easy to underestimate how powerful the urge to take the drug again is. But my point is that you can use heroin and the like "responsibly".

Thats the point I was trying to make.Cocain is another story but it also alters the person after a while I'm convinced of this because I know 2-3 people that do coke and they're lives are ****ed.

Yeah, cocaine is a very nasty drug IMO. Snorting on its own is horrible, the effect is short lived and leaves you needing more.

 

[VirusType2]

I honestly don't feel like responding to you techno.

Then why do it?

it would feel like arguing religion with someone from Utah (you seem so convinced that your right etc)

oh, because you wanted to insult her.

maybe the same applies to me too

so that makes it all better?

 

[unozero]

yes I agree I think some people are less prone to addiction then others.didn't one guy from a famous 70s band basically eat himself to death by eating in n' out burgers everyday?
"addictive personalities" I think the same people that have bad drug problems would have other addiction problems too..l..like cheeseburgers or what have you.

I just wanted to let her(?) know that I wasn't just ignoring her I simply didn't want to argue with her because like I said earlier I tend to get butt hurt easily just didn't want to argue
I acknowledged her post,i think I'm rights so does she,I couldn't convince her neither could she convince me....I certainly didn't want to insult her.
All you are doing is throwing flammable liquid in to the flame.....

 

[Ennui]

what I ment by comparing weed and meth/heroin/coke is that weed/alcohol is MUCH less harmful then the meth or whatever.
I can smoke a joint/have a glass of beer once in a while and still live a normal life ,have a job etc....BUT when you wanna shoot heroin it's very much differnt imho (emphasis in imho) there is no such thing as a repsoneble meth or heroin user...Thats the point I was trying to make.Cocain is another story but it also alters the person after a while I'm convinced of this because I know 2-3 people that do coke and they're lives are ****ed.

There is such a thing as a responsible user of heroin or meth. I have friends who do heroin occasionally (they inject it and everything) but they are not addicted and it doesn't interfere with their daily life at all. The same principle is applied to meth use - you just never hear about the people who use meth very occasionally for its stimulant properties, only about tweakers and meth freaks. Also for the record alcoholism is a much larger problem in society worldwide AND in the USA than drug addiction to heroin or meth is.

Just about any drug can be used responsibly, past the base dangers and effects that you cannot avoid (which are generally a lot less scary than you would think). Its just that hard drugs by definition do not lend themselves well to responsible use because they are addictive.

I honestly don't feel like responding to you techno. I don't wanna talk down to or something I'm sure your even a nice person but it would feel like arguing religion with someone from Utah (you seem so convinced that your right etc) maybe the same applies to me too....so I'm just gonna stop right here,okay?

If you don't want to respond, don't. For the record though she's being pretty sensible and fair, she just has strong opinions on the subject.