Let's Try This, Why Won't Bush Ask His Twins To Go To Iraq?

[gh0st]

wait innervision, people join the army and expect not go to to war? so the contracts they sign mean nothing? clinton years were peaceful? uhhh 3000 people didnt die in a terrorist attack during his presidency.

im joining the military to fight for my country, not to reap the tax payers dollars and not expect to do anything in return. what the **** do your dipshit friends expect? get paid thousands of dollars to do pushups?

 

[CptStern]

im joining the military to fight for my country, not to reap the tax payers dollars and not expect to do anything in return.

what exactly are you fighting for?

 

[Absinthe]

No one volunteers to die, and if they are being asked to, how can you argue the fairness of the person asking, joining in the fight?

Especially when it comes to such a sham of a war. Fighting for your country, my ass. I could understand the "get what you signed up for" mentality if we were actually under attack or threatened, but I think that's been fairly drained in the current context.

I agree with qck. While I don't think anybody should be forced into the military, I find it disgusting that he can send other children, fathers, brothers, humans to fight while he snickers behind a podium, simply brushing off the frustration of those who have lost people dear to them.

 

[gh0st]

what exactly are you fighting for?

what do you want me to say? freedom and liberty?

i already told you for what i want to fight for: my country.

 

[Pesmerga]

Oh you are completely correct pesmerga, in fact my two best friends who are/were over there, who "volunteered", enlisted pre-9/11 because they just knew coming out of the relatively peacefull clinton years that they would be sent to war. No one (sane) persons joins the military because they want to get shot at, they join because financially they have no escape. The army offers pay/college, and if you don't think thats why, then lets see the army drop those benifets and see if the all voluntary force will be enough to sustain this foreign policy.

No one volunteers to die, and if they are being asked to, how can you argue the fairness of the person asking, joining in the fight?

Ok, so you're saying that people shouldn't expect to be involved in war if they JOIN THE MILITARY. God dammit, some people are ****ing idiots. Really, can you honestly believe that a soldier should be excused from war just because he thought there was a good chance that war wouldn't commence? Great, if this forum tells me anything about the future of politics, we are all going to ****ing die.


Unless zombies do it first.

 

[Absinthe]

i already told you for what i want to fight for: my country.

Care to be more specific. I fail to see how you're fighting for your country. Seems more like the agenda of a group of people.

 

[Feath]

Jon Stewert asked this last night and I think its a very good question. There are many roles women play in Iraq, why can't the good old twins take a stab at this nobel war?

I'm going to go back to the beginning, What exactly was the point in this question? What are you trying to prove with it?

 

[gh0st]

Care to be more specific. I fail to see how you're fighting for your country. Seems more like the agenda of a group of people.

if my country puts them in power, then i guess i wouldn't have much of a choice now would i? I'm not going to pussy foot out of it like all these other conscientious objectors.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Because it's their choice. No one makes people enlist, there is no draft.

That's all that needs to be said here. The original question is an uneducated one inteded to incite more idiocy and just look at the results! Its a pity that people feel the need to do this. ;(

The other thread where No Limit mentions this(his proposal) was closed as flame bait, so everybody stop posting here and someone PLEASE close this thread and give him a warning please.

 

[Absinthe]

if my country puts them in power, then i guess i wouldn't have much of a choice now would i? I'm not going to pussy foot out of it like all these other conscientious objectors.

I'm simply curious as to why you feel the need to enlist. At this point, I couldn't really care if I disagree with it (which I probably will). I just want to hear your reasons.

I personally don't support the idea of letting people walk out of the military. The precedent that sets could be disastrous in the time of a real emergency. But in a way, that makes me even more furious with the administration for essentially trapping the troops in a completely unnecessary and unjustified conflict.

 

[gh0st]

I'm simply curious as to why you feel the need to enlist. At this point, I couldn't really care if I disagree with it (which I probably will). I just want to hear your reasons.

Im not enlisting... I'm joining through ROTC. I want to enlist because I like the military and its a job that I would like to do. For now I'm a senior in high school and will be working my way through a 4 year university.

 

[CptStern]

what do you want me to say? freedom and liberty?

the truth?

i already told you for what i want to fight for: my country.

what does that mean? ...you're willing to risk your life for the schemes of a few privileged men?

 

[gh0st]

the truth?

yes stern, the truth. thats why I'm enlisting in the iraqi national guard to fight the pompous americans.

what does that mean? ...you're willing to risk your life for the schemes of a few privileged men?

i guess so stern, you got me. i'm a puppet! be content to live in your igloo and comment on the world around you, i intend to be over there and a part of it. though i very highly doubt i will be in iraq by the time in the military.

 

[CptStern]

I think your grandsons have a chance at being stationed in iraq

I wouldnt say puppet ..pawn perhaps

 

[gh0st]

I think your grandsons have a chance at being stationed in iraq

a chance, yeah. if they choose to be in the military then thats their perrogative, not mine.

 

[Absinthe]

i guess so stern, you got me. i'm a puppet! be content to live in your igloo and comment on the world around you, i intend to be over there and a part of it. though i very highly doubt i will be in iraq by the time in the military.

I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing the logic behind this comment. Not being in the Iraq war implies disconnection from the world? And by that implies that he should join a war he disagrees with? Huh?

 

[gh0st]

I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing the logic behind this comment. Not being in the Iraq war implies disconnection from the world? And by that implies that he should join a war he disagrees with? Huh?

it's easy to comment on the validity of a war without ever being there. the comment was meant to imply that i'm not really content to watch cnn and apply my own opinion to it.

 

[Absinthe]

I don't see how being on the ground-level achieves that any more. Perhaps it gives a more accurate picture of troop morale, danger, and other perspectives only offered by the grunt work. But it's not going to clarify the validity or ethics; things gleamed from a broader overview.

The two positions aren't mutually exclusive either.

Personally, I don't need to form my opinions that way any more than I need to test out heroin.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Jon Stewert asked this last night and I think its a very good question. There are many roles women play in Iraq, why can't the good old twins take a stab at this nobel war?

I bet the twins don't even support the war. Just a vibe I get...lol.

 

[CptStern]

a chance, yeah. if they choose to be in the military then thats their perrogative, not mine.

you're missing my point

 

[Tr0n]

I just don't understand how anyone would be willing to go to war and risk their life, because of what some old grey haired geezer says. I find that really sad.

 

[CptStern]

because the grey haired geezer says words like "freedom" "brave" "duty" "honour" "democracy" ...those words resonate with a select few ...I mean look at Pat Tillman ...he quit the NFL to fight the war in afghanistan and ended paying with his life

 

[Tr0n]

Well...sucks for him. If the reason is just and right...then I would, but for my own reasons. Not because some old fart(s) say so.

 

[CptStern]

I agree ...I do things by my choice ...not someone elses

 

[seinfeldrules]

Well good, you're not joining. Now stop shitting on the people who plan on it.

 

[Korgoth]

The other sides logic is flawed here:

Because....

If no one joined the army, because they knew they would have to fight, there would be a draft, therefore enlistment wouldn't be by choice and you would have to go anyway. So to those saying they had a choice of whether or not they wanted to go to iraq, your an idiot, either way we'd be there against our will. But only because dipshats like yourselves found some justification for this war somewhere.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

There are many roles women play in Iraq, why can't the good old twins take a stab at this nobel war?

Because choice of time and service to your country is considered optional when you've not volunteered for it and signed yourself to become a product of military "push and go". If the Bush twins don't wish to go to war, they are not obligated under national contract to go fight the war, and they surely are'nt obligated to sign-up either. You volunteer to serve, you sign -- then it's your choices. If they throw you in crap situations with virtually no outcome of victory, remember, you volunteered for that (no matter where it is, what the operation name is, and how bad the outcome is thought out to be).

If you oppose the war, don't sign up to fight for it. Period.

<Slams on Kevlar Helmet, dives into trench, and begins exchanging gunfire>

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I mean look at Pat Tillman ...he quit the NFL to fight the war in afghanistan and ended paying with his life

Everyone risks death Stern -- you think you wont die sometime in the future?

 

[CptStern]

yes but I dont blindly rush out to meet it

 

[K e r b e r o s]

True ... so I believe the idea here in summary, is to more responsible with your life and the choices you make with it. If the military your joining is going to be hijacked by religious Pen-Pushers and Mansion-War Makers, remember, you volunteered to be that body for their cause.

So it serves no purpose to bitch, really.

... and remember, they're freedom is'int always yours.

 

[Kebean PFC]

Wow, you guys bash people that arn't going to fight. Then you bash the people that are.

I am going to enlist in about 3 years. After i finish my colledge i plan on becoming an attack chopper pilot. I want to support my country, and beign a pilot in the civillian world is also a good thing. I am not forced to by finncial constraints, actually i am pretty well off.

If no one joined the army, because they knew they would have to fight, there would be a draft, therefore enlistment wouldn't be by choice and you would have to go anyway. So to those saying they had a choice of whether or not they wanted to go to iraq, your an idiot, either way we'd be there against our will. But only because dipshats like yourselves found some justification for this war somewhere.

You idiotiocracy (sp) is appaling. Becuase you friend is a pussy and doesnt want to risk his life by performing the obligation that he SIGNED for does not reflect on the rest of us. It is wartime now, and will be for the forseable future. Out of my ROTC Company over half of us plan on enlisting in either the Army or the Marines. We know that there is a high probability that we will die. But we face it, and we will perform our duty regardless of where or why.

Face it, you friend never wanted to be a soldier, never wanted the kind of obligation that they gave him. He wanted the money. Now he has to work for it and he gets all pissy.

This is an announcement to all those who plan on joining the Armed Services:
Dont do it for the money/colledge. Don't expect to be able to serve in a time of peace then get out when war comes. Know what you are getting into when you sign that contract. Realise that that is one (or two) years of your life that you just handed to the military, and that you will most likely have to fight at one time or another. After you sign, that is it, you are obligated by the document and personal honor to fight in war.
(And i mean honor as in fulfilling your promisses.)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

^ Nice.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Realise that that is one (or two) years of your life that you just handed to the military,

That means chain of command.

 

[Solaris]

Wow, you guys bash people that arn't going to fight. Then you bash the people that are.

I am going to enlist in about 3 years. After i finish my colledge i plan on becoming an attack chopper pilot. I want to support my country, and beign a pilot in the civillian world is also a good thing. I am not forced to by finncial constraints, actually i am pretty well off.


You idiotiocracy (sp) is appaling. Becuase you friend is a pussy and doesnt want to risk his life by performing the obligation that he SIGNED for does not reflect on the rest of us. It is wartime now, and will be for the forseable future. Out of my ROTC Company over half of us plan on enlisting in either the Army or the Marines. We know that there is a high probability that we will die. But we face it, and we will perform our duty regardless of where or why.

Face it, you friend never wanted to be a soldier, never wanted the kind of obligation that they gave him. He wanted the money. Now he has to work for it and he gets all pissy.

He doesnt want to die for something which he belives is morally wrong.

Do you belive this war is right?
Do you think its worth dying for?

 

[seinfeldrules]

He doesnt want to die for something which he belives is morally wrong.

Thats all good, but both Bush and Congress approved this war. He is under contract to follow the orders handed down by the Commander and Chief. If he was being ordered to slaughter an innocent village (or an atrocity along those lines) then I would agree with your argument.

 

[Solaris]

Well so far, 30,000 civillians have been killed.

Legally he is obliged to do so.

Again, is there an Armed forces Union?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Well so far, 30,000 civillians have been killed.

He wasnt ordered to kill any of those civilians.

Legally he is obliged to do so.

He is not obligated to kill innocent civilians just because he was sent over.

Again, is there an Armed forces Union?

You dont join the military to go on strike.

 

[tequilarawks]

30,000. I'll buy it, but I want sources. Don't push all of these civilian casualties on the US. You make it sound like we are going door to door with a .50 cal M2 and mowing them down. Just recently, suicide bombers killed somewhere around 47 people the otherday.

Friendly losses are expected, it's war and shit happens. I hate that people die. The difference is, the insurgents are trying to kill innocents, we aren't. If there was ever a war to fight in, WW2 was it. How many civilians died in those 4 years America fought? Millions. In this hard knock life, shit happens. Plain and simple. Bombs miss targets. Children burn to death, terrorists cut off your father's head with a knife, it's war, all kinds of horrible things happen that wouldn't otherwise... oh wait, that kind of shit was happening before we even got there.

Wrong place at the wrong time. I haven't had anyone close to me die in this war. If someone does, I may change my tone. The war doesn't effect me personally. Though, after watching the beheading videos, I can't feel sympathy for them. I hope all the terrorists burn for it. That is why we are over there, and that is why I support our actions. If Zarkowi was before me and my .45 was loaded, would I pull the trigger? Dunno. Would I care if someone else did? No, I'd pat them on the back and tell them good job.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Do you belive this war is right?
Do you think its worth dying for?

He thinks its right, and worth dying for because "he" signed up. (Keeping in reference to our last discussions ... not anyone new).

 

[Pesmerga]

30,000. I'll buy it, but I want sources. Don't push all of these civilian casualties on the US. You make it sound like we are going door to door with a .50 cal M2 and mowing them down. Just recently, suicide bombers killed somewhere around 47 people the otherday.

Friendly losses are expected, it's war and shit happens. I hate that people die. The difference is, the insurgents are trying to kill innocents, we aren't. If there was ever a war to fight in, WW2 was it. How many civilians died in those 4 years America fought? Millions. In this hard knock life, shit happens. Plain and simple. Bombs miss targets. Children burn to death, terrorists cut off your father's head with a knife, it's war, all kinds of horrible things happen that wouldn't otherwise... oh wait, that kind of shit was happening before we even got there.

Pretty much right, although I forget why I post in these things anymore. Everyone is too prideful to change their minds (or at least, let anyone know they did). It's better to watch them throw knives at each other until someone either gets bored and leaves or gets one through the throat. These arguments are pointless, and I fail to see how a father should even encourage his daughters. If he did, he would be a horrible, horrible father. I find it funny how some people compare death to torture. Sure, death isn't nice, but there are a hell of a lot worse things that humans do. Someone's gotta make sure that those fires don't spread too far before the entire world is on fire, even if it means throwing firefighters into the mix to put their lives on the line. Death isn't the "negative" of life, merely the end of it. How great would life be if we had a few thousand assholes driving planes into buildings and putting bombs in every subway?