Marijuana

[Sainku]

No, I wouldn't care if they banned alcahol ( That worked out real well last time ) and I really wouldn't care if smoking was banned ( Pointless sticks of death ). It should stay illegal. I'm talking about consumable substances here of course. No reason to prevent alcahol wipes or alternative fuel sources or medical breakthroughs...anything like that.

Of course I'm probably just a wacko righty freedom hater.
Off to stare at a bible.

Maybe I will find virgin mary in my french fries.

 

[Absinthe]

Why exactly should it stay illegal?

And I hope you're sarcastic when you say the prohibition of alcohol worked out real well. It turned out horribly.

 

[Sainku]

Because of this.

A college student fails because of all the pot he is smoking.

College student has to settle for a low-paying job because he failed.

Because of all the pot he is smoking, he decides it would be a great idea to start a family. ( Not because it made him stupid, it doesn't need to. People already are. It just gave him a little nudge in the right direction. )

He goes on welfare.

I pay for his familys food.

This scenario also works great with alcahol.

But why somone would take a perfectly good brain and then push potentially harmful fumes into it so they can get a good giggle is beyond me. I don't understand why people use this crap.

Oh and yes I was being a tiny bit sarcastic when I said banning alcahol worked real well.

 

[burner69]

Because of this.

A college student fails because of all the pot he is smoking.

What about the majority of weed smokers who's use of the drug dosen't interfere with his studies? What about the millions of people who don't smoke pot but fail college anyway?

College student has to settle for a low-paying job because he failed.

Because of all the pot he is smoking, he decides it would be a great idea to start a family. ( Not because it made him stupid, it doesn't need to. People already are. It just gave him a little nudge in the right direction. )

You seriously believe that smoking pot makes you want to start a family? I don't mean to sound patronising, because compared to earlier debaters you seem to know a little more about this subject, but you still seem to be hanging on unfounded preconceptions that pot causes your life to fall apart. It has the potential to, just like everything in life, but for the most part it is just something to relax withat the end of a hard day.

He goes on welfare.

I pay for his familys food.

This scenario also works great with alcahol.

And computer games, and relationships, and going out with friends.
To draw a parrellel (sp?) with your example: Boy goes to college and is getting good grades. He meets a girl and they start going out. He's got some work to do, but he ends up going round her place and getting amongst it. This happens a few times and soon he's behind on his work. Soon he's kicked out of college, and so decides to start a family with his girlfriend. Due to failing college he has to settle with a lower paying job and you end up feeding his family.

Now, you seem like a reasonable person, so let me ask you this. Assuming that you accept that some people do enjoy smoking pot and that most of them do it sensibly, do you not agree that the idea of locking people up for this is very extreme. If it all boils down to money then you're paying for all these inmates to be housed and fed while they spend their time behind bars, and then even if they passed college, when they come out of prison they'll find it hard to get a good job, have to settle for a worse one, and we've ended up with your taxes paying for them again.
If it were legal you wouldn't be paying taxes to cover for the cost of housing and food for the many cannabis smokers in prison. You wouldn't be paying for the welfare of recently released prisoners who are unable to find employment, and you wouldn't be paying towards the millions of dollars wasted on paying for police to arrest cannabis users.

But why somone would take a perfectly good brain and then push potentially harmful fumes into it so they can get a good giggle is beyond me. I don't understand why people use this crap.

Fair play. To put it in persepctive I'll compare it to fatty foods.Beef burgers are very bad for you, greasy things, full of fat, we all know they're bad for you but most of us will have one once in a while, maybe even more so. They taste good, but are bad for us.
Now cannabis makes you feel good. Have a smoke with your friends and you'll find yourself talking more deeply about things with them, you might get the giggles too - and we all know how much a nice feeling belly laughing is. You'll appreciate music more, and often find yourself getting more wrapped up in films. If you're an artist or writer you might find that inspiration comes much more easily to you.
But despite this you know it can cause memory problems if smoked too often, and of course all that smoking isn't doing your lungs any good.
So what's the key to both fatty foods and cannabis? Moderation. Don't do it too often and you're hardly putting your life at risk. The only difference is that if you get caught buying a beef burger for a friend you aren't liable for several years in the slammer.

Oh and yes I was being a tiny bit sarcastic when I said banning alcahol worked real well.

Glad to hear that. You do realise that without the prohibition of booze its unlikely the mafia would have got anywhere near as powerful as it did.

 

[Sainku]

You seriously believe that smoking pot makes you want to start a family

No I don't. I was implying that he was to stoned to know that a family would be a bad Idea, not that pot gives you the sudden urge to have a family.

It has the potential to, just like everything in life but for the most part it is just something to relax withat the end of a hard day.

I just take a little more cough medicine than it says on the bottle.

kidding

And computer games, and relationships, and going out with friends.
To draw a PARALLEL with your example: Boy goes to college and is getting good grades. He meets a girl and they start going out. He's got some work to do, but he ends up going round her place and getting amongst it.

What I was saying was that pot isn't helpful in the decision making area in my experience. Which is one of the reasons I drew a comparison with alcohol in the first place. So If a guy met a girl, guy balances girl and work. Guy gets drunk and suddenly doesn't care about work anymore. Guy gets his life messed up. I could see this scenario easily applying to pot as well. The last thing I want is a bunch of drunk and high people running around.

Now, you seem like a reasonable person, so let me ask you this. Assuming that you accept that some people do enjoy smoking pot and that most of them do it sensibly, do you not agree that the idea of locking people up for this is very extreme.

Yes I do, but I can't think of a solution that allows sensible people to enjoy it while people it would be harmful to would not have access to it. I do not think that if it was made legal, problems would just go away.

Fair play. To put it in persepctive I'll compare it to fatty foods.Beef burgers are very bad for you, greasy things, full of fat, we all know they're bad for you but most of us will have one once in a while, maybe even more so. They taste good, but are bad for us.

This is all true. But a fatty burger isn't going to have an immediate affect on anyone other than the person eating it. Now I realize that pot would not either, but I cannot guarantee that the person using it will be responsible about it. Surely you would not argue that in the wrong hands pot can be a harmful substance. Unfortunately in this case I think the many will have to suffer (or be a little less happy at least) because of the few.

I also try to avoid fatty foods as much as possible. I can get along fine without them.

you'll find yourself talking more deeply about things

Im perfectly capable of contemplating the meaning of life or if trees feel pain when they are cut down and talking about it with friends when I'm not high.

It just because I'm not high I realize I sound like a jackass

Glad to hear that. You do realise that without the prohibition of booze its unlikely the mafia would have got anywhere near as powerful as it did.

Are you saying that if pot were legal in the first place drug dealers and gangs would not be as much of a problem? In which case I do not believe that is true. Or are you just asking if I am aware that the mafia became powerful because of the prohibition, in which case I am.

 

[Absinthe]

What I was saying was that pot isn't helpful in the decision making area in my experience. Which is one of the reasons I drew a comparison with alcohol in the first place. So If a guy met a girl, guy balances girl and work. Guy gets drunk and suddenly doesn't care about work anymore. Guy gets his life messed up. I could see this scenario easily applying to pot as well. The last thing I want is a bunch of drunk and high people running around.

But we don't have drunk people running around. Most certainly not the majority of people that consume alcohol. Why do you think pot would be any different?

Yes I do, but I can't think of a solution that allows sensible people to enjoy it while people it would be harmful to would not have access to it. I do not think that if it was made legal, problems would just go away.

It would deal with most of the problems.

This is all true. But a fatty burger isn't going to have an immediate affect on anyone other than the person eating it. Now I realize that pot would not either, but I cannot guarantee that the person using it will be responsible about it. Surely you would not argue that in the wrong hands pot can be a harmful substance. Unfortunately in this case I think the many will have to suffer (or be a little less happy at least) because of the few.

You can take any substance and have it abused if put into the wrong hands. That's not an argument. Following that logic, we could illegalize egg beaters because some moron thought it would be cool to stick his dick in it. Why do you apply this logic (the many have to suffer because of the few) only to cannabis?

Im perfectly capable of contemplating the meaning of life or if trees feel pain when they are cut down and talking about it with friends when I'm not high.

Good for you, but just because you can get along fine without weed does not mean it should be illegal. I too could have a similar conversation without being high, but cannabis just adds a feeling to it that I can't explain. Bottom line: it's more fun.

It just because I'm not high I realize I sound like a jackass

Why should it matter to you if they act like jackasses (albeit very mild, tame, and relaxed jackasses) in their own home?

Are you saying that if pot were legal in the first place drug dealers and gangs would not be as much of a problem? In which case I do not believe that is true. Or are you just asking if I am aware that the mafia became powerful because of the prohibition, in which case I am.

The most sold illegal drug is cannabis. You'd be hard pressed to find a drug dealer that does not sell it. The drug is steeped in criminal gang activity because it is a highly profitable substance.

Take that away from them and what are they gonna do? I'm not saying that it will be an end to all illegal drug activity, but it will take a massive chunk out of it.

 

[T.H.C.138]

if drugs were legalized alot of the money made by the gangs and the mafia wouldn't be made..

crime would go down simply because there would be less bullshit arrests of users instead of taking down the ones who illegally sell it..which hurts the economy..

where does the money go when the street dealer gets it? back for more product,for guns and then eventually the economy sees some when he buys a yacht or some expensive car

legalize weed(more uses than other "drugs") and the money would go INTO the economy instead of some foreign arms dealers pocket...

many instances of gang violence are over drugs..deal gone bad,turf wars,etc... no connection,right?

my god my family is from Utah and we are more open minded than this...for those who don't know,Mormons are predominantly in Utah and very close-minded

the only things bad about weed itself is smoking it because smoking ANYTHING is bad for you..eating it however,can be good for you..

in one seed there are more nutrients than any single food item..seeds also help reduce the risk of heart attacks..I think its because of the essential oils in the seed,but I could be wrong

my point is educate yourself..don't listen to the government,they lose money and power if drugs are legal..

and also don't just look at one kind of website for your info try to open your mind

and the only time I know of people becoming violent while stoned is because they were either on something else(drunk usually,hmmmm) OR they were being attacked..

and if someone is too stoned to know that families are bad..they must have had other,bigger mental problems before they smoked

2 decades of use and I am still alive and (semi) intelligent!! I can still skateboard as good as ever at 30,I can still read books,I can still study...

so two thirds of my life being a "stoner" and really nothing bad to show for it..and I can say the same for most of the people I have known throughout this time..

the ones who didn't abuse weed and just used it...remember using beer and wine in moderation,is good for you,but when you abuse beer its bad for you..

food is the same way..too much of anything at one time is bad for you

/end rant

 

[Sainku]

But we don't have drunk people running around. Most certainly not the majority of people that consume alcohol. Why do you think pot would be any different?

Was talking about college and there are drunk people running around there...and I dont think pot would be any different

Good for you, but just because you can get along fine without weed does not mean it should be illegal. I too could have a similar conversation without being high, but cannabis just adds a feeling to it that I can't explain. Bottom line: it's more fun.

Okay thats nice. I have already said it would be fine if there was a way to keep it away from people it would be harmful to, I was specifically adressing burners response to my inquiry as to why use pot in the first palce.

You can take any substance and have it abused if put into the wrong hands. That's not an argument. Following that logic, we could illegalize egg beaters because some moron thought it would be cool to stick his dick in it. Why do you apply this logic (the many have to suffer because of the few) only to cannabis?

Last time I checked sticking your dick in an egg beater wasnt a popular activity worth debating over...there are many people who smoke pot who are not that smart, and even few of them would stick there dicks in egg beaters, thats just absurd.

The reason I apply this logic to cannabis is because I cannot think of a soloution that would allow for normal people to use it while the people whom it would be harmful to wouldn't have access to it.

Why should it matter to you if they act like jackasses (albeit very mild, tame, and relaxed jackasses) in their own home?

It doesn't. I was rather obviously talking about why you would use pot in the first place, not why it should be illegal.

The most sold illegal drug is cannabis. You'd be hard pressed to find a drug dealer that does not sell it. The drug is steeped in criminal gang activity because it is a highly profitable substance.

Take that away from them and what are they gonna do? I'm not saying that it will be an end to all illegal drug activity, but it will take a massive chunk out of it.

There will always be something. If pot is legal, something else will take its place. No matter what there is always going to be something like that.




I would appreciate it if next time you responded to one of my posts you took note of what I was responding to. When you just take what I said and respond to it without any note that I was even talking to anyone else you remove a very big part of my post. And you addressed some of my statements in a way completely different from the way I originally intended them to be read. For instance when I said "It just because I'm not high I realize I sound like a jackass", you responded as If I was saying that everyone high sounds like a jackass and thats why it should be illegal. When infact I was just asking him why he took pot in the first place and I didn't feel that was a good reason to do so.


Alas, this argument is pointless because everyone here feels so strongly about there posistion on the issue. I am opposed to cannabis and you are users of it, so it is unlikely we will see eye to eye. There will be no swaying of stances, merely bickering and repeating of things already said. I will get out of here so you all can go back to your agreeing and back patting.

 

[Absinthe]

Was talking about college and there are drunk people running around there...and I dont think pot would be any different

...So? Do you think every college kid is a rampant druggy with zero responsibility?

Okay thats nice. I have already said it would be fine if there was a way to keep it away from people it would be harmful to, I was specifically adressing burners response to my inquiry as to why use pot in the first palce.

But that's the problem right there. Your entire argument for keeping it illegal seems to be that it might harm some people. Well, I'm sorry to be so frank, but... no shit. The only group of people who can really be harmed by it (and I don't mean developing some dainty little cough) are people with a history of mental illness. So it should of course it should be kept away from them, just like peanut butter should be kept away from people allergic to peanut butter.

Legalizing it would put the substance into a controlled environment. Best of all, we'd get warning labels! Warning labels that would say "Don't consume this if you have a history of mental illness." Wow!

Last time I checked sticking your dick in an egg beater wasnt a popular activity worth debating over...there are many people who smoke pot who are not that smart, and even few of them would stick there dicks in egg beaters, thats just absurd.

And there are many non-smokers who aren't that smart.

The reason I apply this logic to cannabis is because I cannot think of a soloution that would allow for normal people to use it while the people whom it would be harmful to wouldn't have access to it.

Read my above refutation. If people have been properly educated about the subject, and yet insist on using it (despite having the knowledge that it can seriously harm them), then whose fault is it? The idiot that insisted on smoking a joint despite his schizophrenia. All you're defending here is human stupidity.

There will always be something. If pot is legal, something else will take its place. No matter what there is always going to be something like that.

Will there be a new #1 drug? Yes. Will it see the same numbers as cannabis? Not necessarily. Cannabis is an entirely different drug to the likes of cocaine and heroin. Everybody is fully aware of their destructive capabilities. There is no debate surrounding them. I highly doubt you will see massive increases in their consumption.

 

[Sainku]

...So? Do you think every college kid is a rampant druggy with zero responsibility?

No, are you blind or just only read what you want to when it comes to this stuff? I was talking specifically about a MAKE-BELIEVE COLLEGE KID WHOS LIFE WAS RUINED about 3 posts ago and you responded to my post as if I was talking about a broad REAL audience when I wasn't. My post made perfect sense in context replying to burner until you ripped it apart and shit all over and now Im having to defend myself against points I didn't even make.

But that's the problem right there. Your entire argument for keeping it illegal seems to be that it might harm some people. Well, I'm sorry to be so frank, but... no shit. The only group of people who can really be harmed by it (and I don't mean developing some dainty little cough) are people with a history of mental illness. So it should of course it should be kept away from them, just like peanut butter should be kept away from people allergic to peanut butter.

No, medical conditions are a given. But then there are children who will have even easier access to it who will use it irresponsibly. Then there are people who just don't handle it well and may do things that aren't quite right outside of there own home while using irresponsibly. Then there are people who will just use it irresponsibly. Those are the few, and the many are the responsible people who are getting screwed because of them, not people with mental problems.

And there are many non-smokers who aren't that smart.

Yeah there are a lot of smoke free dumb asses I'm sure. That is totally irrelevant. I was talking specifically about stupid irresponsible jackass smokers and I gave them enough credit to assume that even they would keep there dicks out of egg beaters.

Will there be a new #1 drug? Yes. Will it see the same numbers as cannabis? Not necessarily. Cannabis is an entirely different drug to the likes of cocaine and heroin. Everybody is fully aware of their destructive capabilities. There is no debate surrounding them. I highly doubt you will see massive increases in their consumption.

Doesn't have to be the second most popular drug or anything. There is a lot of stuff that could take its place.



Please for the love of god dont even respond to this because you will probably just jumble it up again. My point was simply that there are to many major bad things that could happen to people WHO AREN'T MENTALLY ILL EVEN to warrant a legalization where the good would be some guy gets to relax and think about the meaning of life with his friends who are so incredibly shallow they need an brain altering substance to aid them in deep thought. Just leave it at that.

 

[burner69]

Was talking about college and there are drunk people running around there...and I dont think pot would be any different

When you say running around do you mean that in the context of "running around causing mischief"? Honestly, that wouldn't happen, or at least nowhere near the amount that it happens with alcohol. Why? Because both are mind altering substances, but in totally different ways; alcohol enlargens your ego, makes you aggressive, uncoordinated and make you voice your opinions about things and make a fuss. Cannabis is a very different drug; it makes you passive, unconfrontational, relaxed. I sometimes venture out of the house when I'm stoned, and when I do I keep myself to myself because I don't want to be making a fuss about anything - it's really undesirable when stoned. You just wanna sit back and chill with your friends, not go around starting fights and breaking things like alcohol makes you do.

Okay thats nice. I have already said it would be fine if there was a way to keep it away from people it would be harmful to, I was specifically adressing burners response to my inquiry as to why use pot in the first palce.

Keeping it away from the wrong people is impossible, and legalisation won't stop that, but it will help.
As it stands there are none (or very few) drug dealers that won't sell to minors interested in having a smoke. We all know how reckless kids can be, especially in their rebel years, and with no restrictions on sale to youngsters, and due to its illegality them not telling their parents, it's very easy for kids to get hold of cannabis and abuse it.
If you legalise it you're able to place restrictions and warnings on the product. Suddenly it's much harder (but not impossible) for a kid to get hold of weed, and when he or she does they'll see "Overuse of cannabis can lead to memory loss" and "Cannabis can increase the likelihood of a schoitsophrenic episode" on the packaging.
While it's not concrete evidence look at Hollands drug use figures compared to the US and UK, where since legilisation the number of kids on pot has dramatically decreased, and overall drug use on ALL drugs throughout the population has declined, and is way below countries that retain prohibition of cannabis.
Legilisation encourages sensible use of cannabis for the right people.

Last time I checked sticking your dick in an egg beater wasnt a popular activity worth debating over...there are many people who smoke pot who are not that smart, and even few of them would stick there dicks in egg beaters, thats just absurd.

The reason I apply this logic to cannabis is because I cannot think of a soloution that would allow for normal people to use it while the people whom it would be harmful to wouldn't have access to it.

A silly example from absinthe I think. But it's a valid point. Anything can be abused and cannabis is not that different. The worst that can happen (so long as you're not one of the 1% of the population suseptable to schitsophrenia) is that you'll become a bit dozey and forget things easier. Even if you're getting stoned all the time it's still very possible to hold a job, do college work, and have relationships.
If you abuse fatty foods you become overweight, suseptable to strokes and heart attacks and be generally unfit.
If you abuse alcohol you can become physically dependent, violent, lose your short term memory, and die from kidney or liver faliure.
I can go on, but I think you get my point. Abuse is bad, and prohibition dosen't deter people from abusing cannabis, if anything it leaves more of a space for abuse of the substance.
And of all the people arrested for cannabis 'offences' how many thousands do you think were not abusing the substance, and now have their lives in complete tatters because of their spell in prison?
And of all of those who were abusing it, how many do you think still are after prison?
And if arresting people to scare others into not smoking cannabis worked, then drug use should decrease teh more people you arrest. It hasn't, it's been increasing.

It doesn't. I was rather obviously talking about why you would use pot in the first place, not why it should be

There will always be something. If pot is legal, something else will take its place. No matter what there is always going to be something like that.

Not at all. Only a few people in the population want the effects of the harder drugs, if cannabis were made legal there is no evidence to suggest use of other drugs would increase. Infact, if Holland is anything to go by use of other drugs will decline. Why? Because the millions of pot smokers won't have to go through a dealer who sells these other drugs to get hold of their pot.

I would appreciate it if next time you responded to one of my posts you took note of what I was responding to. When you just take what I said and respond to it without any note that I was even talking to anyone else you remove a very big part of my post. And you addressed some of my statements in a way completely different from the way I originally intended them to be read. For instance when I said "It just because I'm not high I realize I sound like a jackass", you responded as If I was saying that everyone high sounds like a jackass and thats why it should be illegal. When infact I was just asking him why he took pot in the first place and I didn't feel that was a good reason to do so.

Go easy on absinthe, he had a hard time earlier on with people doing much worse than that. It is annoying when people miss the point of your post though, and I hope I've addressed the majority of your points as you intended them. To be fair though it did sound a little like you were insulting cannabis users, but if you weren't, my apologies.

Alas, this argument is pointless because everyone here feels so strongly about there posistion on the issue. I am opposed to cannabis and you are users of it, so it is unlikely we will see eye to eye. There will be no swaying of stances, merely bickering and repeating of things already said. I will get out of here so you all can go back to your agreeing and back patting.

Words of wisdom, all very true.
I'd hope you'd stay for a while because you're one of the most reasonable debaters on the subject that I've spoken to who is opposed to its use.
Before you go please read this; http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugten.html
Try and approach it from a neutral stance, because it makes a lot of sense so long as you don't charge into it just denying what it's saying with no actual counter-argument.

Peace

 

[Absinthe]

Please for the love of god dont even respond to this because you will probably just jumble it up again. My point was simply that there are to many major bad things that could happen to people WHO AREN'T MENTALLY ILL EVEN to warrant a legalization where the good would be some guy gets to relax and think about the meaning of life with his friends who are so incredibly shallow they need an brain altering substance to aid them in deep thought. Just leave it at that.

You've listed bumpkus.

Frankly, I don't need to do you any favors, especially when you're going to call me shallow. So I'm going to reply any way. Wether or not you want to keep this up is in your hands, not mine.

No, are you blind or just only read what you want to when it comes to this stuff? I was talking specifically about a MAKE-BELIEVE COLLEGE KID WHOS LIFE WAS RUINED about 3 posts ago and you responded to my post as if I was talking about a broad REAL audience when I wasn't. My post made perfect sense in context replying to burner until you ripped it apart and shit all over and now Im having to defend myself against points I didn't even make.

Let's have a recap. I asked you this.

Why exactly should it stay illegal?

And you replied with this (to me, by the way, not burner).

A college student fails because of all the pot he is smoking.

College student has to settle for a low-paying job because he failed.

Because of all the pot he is smoking, he decides it would be a great idea to start a family. ( Not because it made him stupid, it doesn't need to. People already are. It just gave him a little nudge in the right direction. )

He goes on welfare.

I pay for his familys food.

So you answered my question using an example of, in your own words, a make-believe college kid? Why? Why do that? Why do such a thing and then expect some kind of different reaction from me? If you want to, feel free to make sense of this for me, because I'm not understanding your bizarro logic. You certainly didn't make this clear enough in your last couple of posts.

No, medical conditions are a given. But then there are children who will have even easier access to it who will use it irresponsibly. Then there are people who just don't handle it well and may do things that aren't quite right outside of there own home while using irresponsibly. Then there are people who will just use it irresponsibly. Those are the few, and the many are the responsible people who are getting screwed because of them, not people with mental problems.

Children having easier access? Children would have a more difficult time getting marijuana in a controlled and legal environment.

Misbehaving while toking outside of their home? We have our ways with dealing with public drunks, why should pot be any different. And it's not like you're going to get angry and violent stoners out in the streets.

People who will just use it irresponsibly? I think we've already covered the fact that every substance has its share of abusers. Again, this is not an argument for keeping it illegal.

Doesn't have to be the second most popular drug or anything. There is a lot of stuff that could take its place.

Like? Can you come up with something aside from vague doomsday prophecies? Oh wait, you're not replying any more.

 

[Absinthe]

Alright, every body should just ignore anything I say in this topic for a long time. I'm edgy because of the exams I'm taking these couple of weeks and it's just too easy to vent that kind stuff out on a forum. So easy it should be a crime. :\

Sainku, if I misunderstood something in your posts, then I apologize. But I honestly wasn't sure what you were trying to get at. Either way, I'm going to take a break since burner does a good job of avoiding getting hot-headed.

 

[Ennui]

Legalization of marijuana would not only reduce drug use among minors because it would allow for much more control over who has access to the drug, but it would ensure quality (although cannabis is almost never cut with anything without your knowledge) and also make the government a shitload of money. Nothing would replace it as the number one drug (which it isn't; either alcohol or tobacco is, and both are faaaaar ahead) because people honestly aren't stupid enough to go on to harder drugs. Pot has, compared to tobacco, much fewer carcinogens and other dangerous elements in the smoke except tar, and you smoke far less cannabis than you would tobacco. There ARE possible triggers of latent mental illnesses, but it only happens in people who have the potential to develop it; to clarify, it will NOT give you schizophrenia unless you already will probably develop it at some point in your life, and even then the chance that it will trigger said disorder is around 1%, according to erowid. Pot is not physically addicting, and the only physical problems it might cause are possible lung problems (if you smoke an insane amount for a very long time, several times a day for a decade or more) and TEMPORARY short-term memory loss.

Oh, and it's far less dangerous and damaging than either alcohol or tobacco. Not to mention a high person is perfectly capable of performing most everyday activities, whereas a drunk person isn't remotely able to do the same.

I think that pot should be made legal to anyone who wants it, but fairly heavily taxed and requiring a two week class or so (like driver's ed) to get a license - a license to smoke, if you will. The license has to be renewed, etc, and another more rigorous class if you wish to get a growing license.

As it is now, I'm fine with it - it's a tad more difficult to use responsibly when you're exposed to the entire underground drug trade (if it were legal, you wouldn't come in contact with that) and have the ability to purchase harder and more dangerous drugs, but I know that I'm perfectly responsible and in control of what I do with it.

As for anyone who's interested in learning more about cannabis or any other drug, from a politically unbiased viewpoint, I strongly recommend you visit what is known in the drug culture as "The Bible" - that is, erowid.org.

 

[Ennui]

Oh, cannabis is also a proved panacea, meaning it's a common cure for many ailments - 20% of symptoms relieved by expensive pharmecuticals can be relieved by pot - and the hemp plant has a myriad of uses, among them paper.

 

[Dynasty]

surprised how the mods closed a 'have you had sex thread' but leave a thread that talks about the cause of children being the way they are nowadays...hmm :E love you all really

i mean look at the amount of people that say 'yes'...case closed i say no more

anyone who does drugs ISNT hard no matter what you think, waste of time, money and LIFE

 

[Ennui]

surprised how the mods closed a 'have you had sex thread' but leave a thread that talks about the cause of children being the way they are nowadays...hmm :E love you all really

That was honestly one of the stupidest assumptions I've ever heard made, cannabis being the "cause of children being the way they are nowadays". I guess that marijuana's really ruined my life and made me bad, what with my 4.3 GPA in the most advanced classes possible. Gee.

And cannabis is a tad less explicit than sex, especially because that thread was getting a bit raunchy.

 

[Dynasty]

well i seriously cant remember the last time i met a kid that didnt do drugs in some way

 

[Ennui]

well i seriously cant remember the last time i met a kid that didnt do drugs in some way

Not a kid person, eh?

Out of all my friends, about 30% do drugs, only 5% of which go past pot or alcohol. At my school, about 3/4 has tried pot at some point but only 1/4 or so smokes it more than that.

 

[Dynasty]

see i think it does depend on the area youre in.

nah im not a kid person, they act bigger than they are when they blatantly arent. and when they think drugs make them matcho and hard, they just need to be slapped or something similar.

ATLEAST 3/4 of the people at my school do drugs, and its a private school at that...voted as the best in the south west of the UK!! ahaha that changes things

 

[Ennui]

I'm in a state with a lot of drugs, actually, North Carolina, and the people are generally somewhat responsible. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of immature f*cktards running about doing cocaine at school and the like, but we're generally fairly good about it.

 

[Absinthe]

anyone who does drugs ISNT hard no matter what you think, waste of time, money and LIFE

Maybe for you. I find some to be well worth my time and money because they enrich my life.

I'm in a state with a lot of drugs, actually, North Carolina, and the people are generally somewhat responsible. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of immature f*cktards running about doing cocaine at school and the like, but we're generally fairly good about it.

NC, eh? I'm going there next year for college and one of the things I was actually worrying about was how drugs were handled.

 

[Ennui]

It's a truely interesting experience and it gives you perspective, I have to say.

I'm assuming, then, that you've never touched alcohol or tobacco, right Dynasty? Because both are drugs, and MORE DANGEROUS than pot.

 

[CptStern]

if kids are doing cocaine then it's the parents fault ..I cant afford cocaine (on a daily basis) and I work fulltime

 

[burner69]

surprised how the mods closed a 'have you had sex thread' but leave a thread that talks about the cause of children being the way they are nowadays...hmm :E love you all really

i mean look at the amount of people that say 'yes'...case closed i say no more

anyone who does drugs ISNT hard no matter what you think, waste of time, money and LIFE

Y'know, you spend some ten pages arguing the legilisation of drugs with people. Some of whom are reasonable, some of whom are very unreasonable. You did up statistics, find them links, explain points (and let me emphasise this) over and over again and then we finish up with the most basic, probably tackled in the first two pages response of "drugs don't make you hard".
Don't mean to sound tetchy, but exactly how many people do you think smoke weed to "look hard". If they do, they're idiots, screw them. It's just another thing that legilisation would help to tackle. Suddenly when pot isn't illegal you're not so hard for smoking it.

By the way, how is it "case closed" when you just show us that, yes indeed, most people want pot legilised?
And time, money and life. Hmm.
Time: Getting high with friends is enjoyable and sociable; and that makes it a waste of time, right? Do you work solid all day with no relaxation or social time?
Money: Pot is cheap. £15 for an eighth of solids that will last me, if I have a spliff or three with friends once in the week and once at weekends, perhaps three weeks to a month. £15 would be one night out with friends on the p*ss, or if it was a more quiet drink perhaps two nights. Go figure.
Life: ???? What? Being high kills you? Stops you enjoying life? Oh no no no. You're confused. If that were true any recreational activity would do the same: "Skateboarding ruins lifes" "Half life 2 destroys lifes" "Enjoy life, don't go camping."

If you want a debate, which is what we're here for, come here at least attempting an argument against pot - not just pointing out that most people want it legilised, saying "kids nowadays" and "weed dosen't make you hard."

Please. I think I might go mad if I get caught up in a childish, factless, opinionated, circular argument again.

Peace.

PS: Absinthe, good luck with the exams.

 

[burner69]

lol i love you burner come marry me ;D Making us hard is a funny one, i dont know a SINGLE person who smokes to look hard. Our social life is our social life why CANT we smoke pot? instead of coming home and relaxing by playing video games and killing people to relieve my stress, i just light a blunt up. No one in my house complains, b/c it's only me and my dad and he smokes too. If no one is complaining where u are, who cares if we smoke it? Were not harming ANYBODY, nobody. I work for my money hard all week and wish to spend it how i want! it's bad enough i get over 50 $ takin out in taxes everyweek which is like a 1/5 of my check :/

I know of people who sometimes seem to go on about how much they smoke which makes me think that, at least in part, they do it for their image. But honestly, there's not a lot of them and the times I have been stoned with them they seem to enjoy it every bit as much as the next man (who smokes weed). While smoking cannabis may become a part of their image it certainly is never the sole reason that they do it.
To be honest I think people who don't smoke weed just seem to want to think we do it to look hard - I'm sure some psychologists would have something to say about that.

For me the whole argument spirals down to this, which cannot be denied (unless you're anm arrogant fool).
Smoking cannabis only harms the user, and this harm is negligable especially when compared to certain other legal drugs. If an act does not harm other people there is no reason to make it illegal; No victim, no crime. If we did arrest people and lock them up for harming themselves fags and booze would be illegal, as would suicide, which has been legal since the 1960s.

As Bill Hicks put it;

My final point about alcohol, about drugs, about pornography... what buisness is it of yours what I do, read, buy see or take into my body so long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilema on how to answer this, let me answer it for you. NONE OF YOUR F*CKING BUISNESS. Take that to the bank, cash it, and take a vacation out of my f*cking life.

Anyone who wants to argue that stance is in direct violation of freedom and of human rights - if you're fine with that then carry on telling us how pot ruins everything it comes into contact with, tell us how smelly it is, tell us how once a mate of a mates butcher's dog's vet's brother once hit somebody when stoned, tell us how weed fuels crime, tell us all about it. We don't care. Why? Because we know it's a load of crap. Besides the minor health problems associated with frequent cannabis use, the only problems it causes are caused directly because of the prohibition laws. If you're too stupid to work that out after having it shown to you over and over, with statistics, examples, and step-by-step explainations to help you, then screw you - I wouldn't listen to you if you told me my mother was on fire.

(That, by the way, was directed at certain ignorant people I've been debating with - not everyone who's dosen't smoke pot).

Peace

And shaodw: "I will."

 

[WacK]

no thx 2 maya... :S

 

[kirovman]

lol w00t!! o and by the way i think, dont quote me, but i think suicide IS illegal here in the states. I know if someone tries and kills themselves and dont and are caught by the police they can go to jail, or maybe a psych ward.

Hehe, attempted suicide surely?

"Your Honour, the defendant is accused of suicide"
"Do you have anything to say in your defence?"
"............"
"Well?"
"............."
"Why isn't he answering?"
"He's deceased, Your Honour"

In the 19th Century, attempted suicide was punishable by death in the UK

Also found this:

By the early 1990s only two US states still listed suicide as a crime, and these have since removed that classification. Increasingly, the term commit suicide is being consciously avoided, as it implies that suicide is a crime by equating it with other acts that are committed, such as murder or burglary.

 

[Ennui]

NC, eh? I'm going there next year for college and one of the things I was actually worrying about was how drugs were handled.

What college will you be going to?

If you're in Chapel Hill or Durham, there are a lot of drugs, mainly pot and recently cocaine has been popular (but I wouldn't touch it personally). Shrooms are also popular but acid's more difficult to find.

Oh and Burner is teh win, period.

 

[Absinthe]

NC State. I'm also not too interested in trying out cocaine. Although the likes of acid and shrooms are fair game.

 

[Ennui]

NC State. I'm also not too interested in trying out cocaine. Although the likes of acid and shrooms are fair game.

Shrooming's fine for me now, but I'm only sixteen so I'm waiting a few years to do acid, let myself finish developing first.

 

[Ennui]

i will never touch acid :/ waaaay too many demons in me. shrooms though are fair game yea and i meant attempted

I'll judge whether or not I do acid based on my experiences with shrooms, but I'm certainly waiting until college at least. I'm going to shroom soon.

 

[Ennui]

I'm taking an 1/8th first time, if that - I'm considering more like 2.5g or so, since I'm not sure how much it will affect me.

 

[burner69]

Heh, burn is teh win; I likes it

Seeing as the issue of legilisation has kinda faded out (until we get some dude coming on saying "No ways, teh pot f00ks up yor life and u r a loser if u do it") let's talk shrooms.

I've done um a few times, and they're well fun. Also currently legal here in the UK (up until June at least) so I think we can discuss them quite openly without a problem.
If you ever take shrooms here's some golden advice: Go with it, don't EVER try and act normal, turn off your phone or any other link to the outside world, and just sit back and enjoy the show. If you try and control what's going on you can get frightened at your lack of control and it can turn bad. My friend tried to vote after eating 20g of Equadorian shrooms, he came back looking very frightened and said "Who? what? Don't.... go to vote." Then fell over. There's a lesson there for all of us

By the way, if you've ever taken acid, shrooms or Mescalin I strongly suggest reading Huxley's "Doors of perception" It's a book he wrote about his experiences on mescalin and is quite astounding. It'll make even more sense after a trip.

Just out of interest, what are the laws on shrooms like in the States? Because they used to be class A here in the UK if they were dried or "altered by the hand of man", but they could be sold fresh openly. Now they're clamping down and banning the sale of fresh shrooms as from June/July time.
Now, considering magic mushrooms have been used for thousands of years, and that there is no evidence to suggest that they are bad for you - anyone want to answer WHY they are being made illegal? It really peevs me when they ban a substance purely to seem hard on drugs, when there's no real reason to at all. Baring in mind that shrooms have been legal in the UK for ages, it's funny that hardly anyone takes them... now people are going to be forced to pick them if they want them - and this is the only time that shrooms can harm you... well... not shrooms, but picking and eating poisonous ones by mistake.

Once again the law will end up harming more people through prohibition. SOrt it out eh Blair?

Peace

EDIT: Ennui; 2.5 will do nothing to you. First time I ate 6g then topped up to 10g and was fine. You'll be suitable amazed at the world.
HANDY HINT: When tripping get a wooden spoon and tap it against things, you'll find yourself doing it for a loooong time (no seriously).

 

[brink's]

I've done shrooms 9 times and only once have I done under 4grams. My previous time doing mush will probably be my last. I had a really bad trip, I'm talkin REALLY BAD.

I thought I was dying and kept telling my friends how much I loved them and that I would've done things differently. My friend got so freaked out that he called the paramedics and the police showed up with them. By the time they got there I had achieved loss of ego, so I had no idea who I was or what was going on. I kept thinking I was the only living creature in existence and that everything that happened around me was predetermined to the point where I had no controll over anything, I was just this freaked out floating entity along for the ride.

Then my mom showed up and took me home. While I was in the car my mind went from only existing creature to enternity in hell, my entire body acked like hell and I though it would never end. I later came down realized how fu*ked I was.

And my friend was taken to the hospital because he wasn't responding only to be charged a 400 dollar ambulance bill when he started to come down.
This is only a brief summary of what happened that night, others were affect also and my story goes way further.

 

[Locust]

drugs are bad, m'kay

 

[bryanf445]

naa i think it would just lead to different drugs...and everyone would constantly be burned out

 

[Reaktor4]

uhhh burner u musta had some bad shrooms... 2 grams will do plenty.

There are many different types of mushrooms, each with their own potency. You cant just say "you should take 2 grams" or whatever since you have absolutely no idea how potent that particular strain is (yes i know burner did it first).
And burner, in some of your posts you sound like one of the legalise cannabis at all costs brigade. Ill let you work out what i mean by that yourself.

 

[Absinthe]

naa i think it would just lead to different drugs...and everyone would constantly be burned out

The gateway theory has been disproven.

 

[burner69]

naa i think it would just lead to different drugs...and everyone would constantly be burned out

By that principle then we should ban alcohol. Because that is a drug, and if people didn't drink alcohol, then they'd never touch other drugs.

No, you see most cannabis users are quite happy with just smoking cannabis and/or having a drink - it's what suits them.

The only time that cannabis can start people on other drugs is if they're buying pot from their dealer and he starts talking about the coke that he's got, and how good it is, and how he'll cut him a deal. Ergo if you legalise pot you remove the connection between cannabis and other, far more addictive and dangerous drugs.

There are many different types of mushrooms, each with their own potency. You cant just say "you should take 2 grams" or whatever since you have absolutely no idea how potent that particular strain is (yes i know burner did it first).
And burner, in some of your posts you sound like one of the legalise cannabis at all costs brigade. Ill let you work out what i mean by that yourself.

My apologies. I was talking from my experience with several different strains of fresh mushrooms. Perhaps it's much different if you dry them? (I know they're more potent when dried, but five-fold?) Because 2g to me sounds like bugger all (last weekend 6 of us got through 100g).

EDIT: Just checked it out - dried shrooms can be up to 10x as strong as fresh. So yeah, that kinda makes sense now. In the UK you can (or at least could) buy shrooms fresh legally so that's what everyone did. Lucky we spotted that or my advice could've sent you into some deep trippy zones of your unconcious... imagine having a good trip on that amount of dried shrooms tho... mmm.... :afro:

Reaktor, I think cannabis, well, all drugs to their own extent, should be legalised - because the pros of legilisation far outweigh any perceived cons e.g; "It sends out the wrong message to kids" - while actually reducing the number of kids with access and thus taking drugs.

By the way, long time no see reaktor, nice to see you in a good old fashioned weed debate again :cheers: