Michael Bay: No Transformers 2

[CptStern]

Bay chose Chevy, thus all autobots are GM vehicles. It WAS product placement, just like Nokia, Xbox 360, and Mountain Dew placements in the movie.

All transformers are based on real-world objects, though.

ya but besides Bumblebee they werent created from their real world counterparts ..I mean Optimus prime is a truck, but not a mercedes truck or a Mac or peterbuilt or whatever ..it was gnerically a "truck" ..no so with the new movie where they take liberties in design to support ads placed into the film ..the ads dictate somewhat what the mive will look like ..I mean what if they had been sponsoered by say Lada ..how happy would you have been then? shilling out to GM instead of some horrid car maker (not that GM isnt horrid) doesnt make it less of an ad for cars

Or at least, nearly everything. Heck I just found out a few months back the autobot Hot Rod from the '86 movie is based on an actual, obscure Japanese prototype car called the Dome Zero. I always thought it was a fictional representation of a futuristic sportscar, but it actually has basis in the real world.

operative word being "based" ..i dont know, it wouldnt sit well that the only criteria on the look of some of the robots is how much sponsors are willing to pay ..it takes out the artistic vision aspect and makes it into a glorified commercial ...ever seen those mercedes car ads they online a few years back made by people like Ang Lee and Guy ritchie? they at least had the liberty to do whatever they wanted so long as the car was in most shots ..some were quite good despite being an ad for a car company ..mostly because the ads didnt dictate what the movie was about ..not so with T2 ..I mean that scene with the dirty camaro was written by suits in a GM board room ..it's just so crass and obvious that there's no way someone half creative could have come up with something so ...schlocky

Optimus Prime was a cab-over semi. Megatron was a Walther P38. Old Ironhide was a Nissan Onebox vanette.

not exactly:

ironhand:
http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0178/ironhide1.jpg

Nissan vanette:

http://www.spencer1984.com/image/m190a.jpg

they would have infringed on trademark had they looked like their real world counterparts

Jazz was a Porsche 935 (and would have been a Porsche in the movie too had they not rejected the proposal...their loss, though). These are all very specific objects that you find in real life. What's the point of being a robot in disguise if your disguise is something that doesn't actually exist? What, instead of a GM Hummer it'd be called a Buzzer? Instead of Mountain Dew it'd be Alpine Drops? Pontiac Solstice? No, you're a Chieftain Equinox!

Casual butchering of lore...heh heh. Nothing could be truer in TF than using actual name brands.

not really as I outlined above ..the cartoon was based on real world objects ..the movie is based on real world products ...there's a world of difference

 

[Darkside55]

I don't see how the ads dictated what the movie was about. The car logos aren't always in your face, only the camaro is ever mentioned by name, and really these things get torn apart, blown up...something terrible happens to the solstice. If the movie was meant to sell cars, well, it won't be selling that one.

Besides, like I said, what else are you going to use in a live action movie? Fake brand cars? Yes, the cartoon vehicles never come out and mention manufacturers by name, but you can't do that in real life. You can't buy a car, scratch off the emblems, and stick it in your movie and not expect to pay royalties. And they have to be real cars otherwise it'd be stupid.

Also, given the length of those scenes, compared to others in the movie, it might as well also be product placement for the F-22 or a Pave Low.

I'm really not sure where you're trying to go with this. "Compromises artistic integrity?" ROBOTS TRANSFORMING INTO CARS AND BLOWING EACH OTHER UP. Even if you were trying to make a statement in the film (a statement beyond, "war is bad, humans have admirable qualities despite their quarrels") it'd be drowned out by all the awesome going on. Even jokingly, let's not kid ourselves here...WHAT artistic vision? Robots. Guns. Pew, pew.

I'm telling you, Cap, I don't know about you but I can't really focus too well on car logos while I'm having visual orgasms.

 

[CptStern]

I don't see how the ads dictated what the movie was about. The car logos aren't always in your face, only the camaro is ever mentioned by name, and really these things get torn apart, blown up...something terrible happens to the solstice. If the movie was meant to sell cars, well, it won't be selling that one.

Besides, like I said, what else are you going to use in a live action movie? Fake brand cars? Yes, the cartoon vehicles never come out and mention manufacturers by name, but you can't do that in real life. You can't buy a car, scratch off the emblems, and stick it in your movie and not expect to pay royalties. And they have to be real cars otherwise it'd be stupid.

they dont mention it by name in the original cartoon because a. they dont have the right to (they'd be using it's likeness instead of the real product which is allowable) and b. they can be liable for any negative reprecussions from using that likeness

you dont pay royalties to use cars in movies, it's the other way around; that's what product placement is, corporations pay production companies to place their products into movies ..it's always under strict guidelines and often entire scenes are written to accomodate the products ..Fantastic four leaps to mind with the mustang, mountain dew ads ..product placement has been around for decades but now it's becoming all too intrusive ..transformers is just but one example ..in fact Bay's movies are often criticised for the ads

The film The Island, directed by Michael Bay, features at least 21 individual products or brands, including cars, bottled water, shoes, credit cards, beer, and ice cream.[4] The film was highly criticized for this.[5]. In movie's DVD Commentary track, Michael Bay claims he added the advertisements for realism purposes.

So this past week, Michael Bay came out and said that he wasn't a whore, just because GM was allowed to pay $3 million so that the Transformers would transform into GM vehicles.

http://alligatorsinahelicopter.blogspot.com/2007/07/michael-bay-im-not-whore.html
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/07/transformers-pr.html

Also, given the length of those scenes, compared to others in the movie, it might as well also be product placement for the F-22 or a Pave Low.

I'm really not sure where you're trying to go with this. "Compromises artistic integrity?" ROBOTS TRANSFORMING INTO CARS AND BLOWING EACH OTHER UP. Even if you were trying to make a statement in the film (a statement beyond, "war is bad, humans have admirable qualities despite their quarrels") it'd be drowned out by all the awesome going on. Even jokingly, let's not kid ourselves here...WHAT artistic vision? Robots. Guns. Pew, pew.

ok then but in the future dont try to pass it off as the best film ever made ..especially when you admit there is no artistic vision

I'm telling you, Cap, I don't know about you but I can't really focus too well on car logos while I'm having visual orgasms.

look I'm not just harping on transformers for the hell of it, my comments are more indicative of what hollywood has become than anything else ..I'm not criticising transformers for product placement I'm criticising it for the way it was done ...but as you've pointed out it's target audience wouldnt notice it because they're too distracted by robots and lasers that go pew pew pew .....but that doesnt fly for me: I can see behind the curtain, I see the wires, I can see the ventriloquists lips move: I demand a little more from film and that is why I wouldnt pay to see Transformers the Movie ..that's all I'm saying, stop taking everything so personally

 

[Darkside55]

It IS the best movie in the world. Second best. Just because it has no artistic vision...argh, you like artistic vision too much. It's just one thing we'll never agree on. Don't get me wrong, you know I watch art films and classics and neo-classics and great films with critical acclaim and all that. But to me, that doesn't make something the greatest film of all time. It's what I think is the greatest movie(s) of all time is. And TF 2k7 is the second best movie of all time, in my opinion. Operative words there.

Also I'm not taking it personally. I realize it won't be everyone's favorite movie. Believe it or not I'm OK with that. I've said it a bunch of times. I'm not taking what you say about the movie personally, because I love it. Nothing anyone says, ever, can convince me that there's something flawed with this movie. It really is like talking to a brick wall about it.

Conversely, you're not going to like it no matter what I say because you don't dig giant robots. Didn't I say, most models of humans constructed before or after the eighties are missing the "I love giant robots!" gene? You guys missed it man. So it doesn't seem like a big deal to you, but more's the pity, because my generation loves giant robots. Most of it anyway. We get some defects...you can usually spot those people and oust them. Nothing's sadder than someone born in the eighties without the giant robot gene. You feel for those people, man. It's like, "How old are you? And you don't like giant robots? Oh. Oh man. I'm so sorry. You're broken." ;(

 

[Fliko]

but that doesnt fly for me: I can see behind the curtain, I see the wires, I can see the ventriloquists lips move

Omg! Conspiracy theory against Transformers! NO WAI!

Robots, guns, and pew pew... That's artistic vision damnit.

 

[CptStern]

It IS the best movie in the world. Second best. Just because it has no artistic vision...argh, you like artistic vision too much. It's just one thing we'll never agree on. Don't get me wrong, you know I watch art films and classics and neo-classics and great films with critical acclaim and all that.

I dont belive you ..sorry I dont ..you cant tell me you watched casablanca or the Thin man or Momento or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest or Annie Hall or Life is Beautiful and then turn around and say a cartoon from 1986 is the better film ..not in any sort of seriousness ..in fact if you did say it in all seriousness I'd have to doubt your sanity ..I can almost guarentee that if I were to show the first transformers movie to every single person over the age of 16 and any of the movies above and to a man they would all agree that transformers is the inferior movie ..it's the ONLY possible response ..people may like it better but that doesnt mean it's better ..probably my top 2 films are either bladerunner or apocolypse now ..does that make them the best film ever made ..absolutely not ..does that mean they're prefect in every way, **** no, I wouldnt be much of a film buff if I couldnt see problems in narrative or structure or weak performances etc ...you seem incapable of this ..I think simply having the transformers name is enough for you

But to me, that doesn't make something the greatest film of all time. It's what I think is the greatest movie(s) of all time is.

nope, not unless you finish it with "in my opinion" and even then I would question your sanity ..again Bladerunner is probably my favourite movie of all time ..is it the best film ever made? no, regardless of how much I like it it's still not the best film ever made ..you CANNOT judge something SOLELY on whether or not you like it ..or else every single review would become "I liked it" .."I didnt like" without any reasoning because without an critical eye you're just presenting a biased opinion, and that helps no one

And TF 2k7 is the second best movie of all time, in my opinion. Operative words there.

ok fine, I still question your sanity due to what I've outlined above

Also I'm not taking it personally. I realize it won't be everyone's favorite movie. Believe it or not I'm OK with that. I've said it a bunch of times. I'm not taking what you say about the movie personally, because I love it. Nothing anyone says, ever, can convince me that there's something flawed with this movie. It really is like talking to a brick wall about it.

but dont you see that completely invalidates your opinion because it's biased? even the best movies have flaws nothing is perfect ..the fact that you cannot see this makes ill suited to make informed opinions

Conversely, you're not going to like it no matter what I say because you don't dig giant robots.

please I was watching mechagodzilla stomping tokyo before you were born, I'm a huge comic book nerd, a gamer and long time toy fan

Didn't I say, most models of humans constructed before or after the eighties are missing the "I love giant robots!" gene?

you're probably joking but I find that statement a little creepy

You guys missed it man. So it doesn't seem like a big deal to you, but more's the pity, because my generation loves giant robots. Most of it anyway. We get some defects...you can usually spot those people and oust them. Nothing's sadder than someone born in the eighties without the giant robot gene. You feel for those people, man. It's like, "How old are you? And you don't like giant robots? Oh. Oh man. I'm so sorry. You're broken." ;(

yes none of us grew up with this:

or this:

or this:

oh btw I'd much rather watch any of the above films than anything done by Michael Bay ...at least they dont take themselves seriously

 

[Darkside55]

It really bothers you that I think Transformers is the best movie in the world, huh? It's kind of like, no matter how many times I say the words, "my opinion" or give my reasoning for it, you're like, "Argh, I don't get it, how can you say that seriously?!" It's getting funnier every subsequent post because I keep imagining you on the other end trying to comprehend it and you just can't. It's great.

And I already said...you lack the gene. Sure you might have watched old kaiju and sentai series (Ultraman's not a robot, btw ), and you may love comics and toys but...you're missing it. I don't even know how if you like Giant Robo. I dunno, man. I really don't know what to say. Even if you weren't born in our era you should at least have some love for it if you liked Giant Robo.

Maybe that's just it, y'know. It isn't your era. You don't love transformers because it has absolutely nothing to do with your time. I think that's got to be it. You don't get it and won't get it because it was after what you grew up on and holds no significance for you. And I know, you're gonna say something like, "How can it have significance? It was a show made to sell toys!" because you said that last time I said this. But it's really special to 80's kids. It's like Pokemon or Power Rangers to 90's kids. You ever want to make someone from the nineties reminesce you bring up Pokemon the Movie. I'm not even kidding, I've seen peoples' eyes mist over remembering that shit. Bring up Disney Afternoon or something.

I guess it all boils down to nostalgia. We love our old series. I was chatting with some friends the other day about Saber Rider, and some guy in his mid-20s comes up and says, "Did you say SABER RIDER?! That guy was my motherf*cking HERO." Some guy out of the blue. Saber Rider was his hero, and he still got all crazy about it after 20 years.

It's just not something you're going to get, bud. I really suggest you stop trying to comprehend it because you're not going to get it no matter what. Maybe the only way I could make you understand is to ask if there's something that really embodies your childhood, your entire childhood, like one thing that really stands out above everything else. I mean because for 80's kids it was our cartoons. That's what we had that was better than everything else that came before or after it. Our cartoons were the shit. That's what we love. That's where our heroes are from, that's where our memories are from. Maybe you have something like that from your childhood, it doesn't have to be a show or anything. But something that to this day you'd get all excited about and feel like a little kid again. Have you nothing like this? If you do, think of it in those terms. That's what this is. That's why I'm so passionate about it.

So to me I don't make the distinction between "my favorite movie" and "best movie in the world," because, being myself, and not being any other person on the planet, shouldn't my favorite movie be the BEST movie in the world? If it wasn't the best movie, if I thought to myself, "there are better movies out there," why wouldn't those be my favorites? Why should I pick an inferior movie? No, Transformers 86 and 2k7 are the best movies in the world. That's what I'm sayin' and will keep on sayin', 'cause I believe it. Maybe you think it's crazy, maybe it doesn't jibe with you, but you're not me. You know I don't even particularly like Blade Runner 'cept for the ending, doesn't mean you shouldn't like it. I am biased, I am opinionated, but damn it they're my opinions. Nothing could change that.

Unicron himself could appear outside of Earth's orbit and command me, "Say transformers is not the best movie in the universe," under pain of torture, and I'd say no. And then, knowing Unicron, he'd probably melt me down or turn me into ash or something. He'd kill me in some horrible way. But I will never stop saying Transformers isn't the best movie in the world, whether anyone likes it or not.