'Michael Moore Hates America' -- reviewed.

[othello]

Yes, it is.

how deplorably puerile.

 

[Sprafa]

The movie doesn't charges anyone of conspiracy. It gives you data that you are supposed to make into a conspiracy.

 

[othello]

You just portrayed a soldier of this country in a bad light because you disagree with them. I'm going to have to assume you hate America then.

i didnt... the man i heard say those things did?

It disturbes me that you somehow find a correlation between a videgame and real war.

it disturbs me that your astute clairvoyance [/sarcasm] fails at the slightest hint of a joke.

 

[othello]

The movie doesn't charges anyone of conspiracy. It gives you data that you are supposed to make into a conspiracy.

no no.. the movie, itself, is full of conspiracy theories.

 

[Neutrino]

i didnt... the man i heard say those things did?

You agreed with the statement that he was not a true soldier.

it disturbs me that your astute clairvoyance [/sarcasm] fails at the slightest hint of a joke.

I didn't find it funny, sorry.

But back to the point, you said you didn't find that scene disturbing at all. Why not?

 

[Sprafa]

no no.. the movie, itself, is full of conspiracy theories.

Michael Moore doesn't says "Bush dealt with Bin Laden to organize 9/11"

He talks about the Bin Laden-Bush connection and is supposed to make you think about the above.

 

[othello]

Moore donates much of the proceeds of his films to various causes.

i call bullshit. proof please?

And he formed his views and made his films before he made his money.The two are not mutually exclucive. F911 was his first real political attack. He picks his battles.

right and wrong... he got about $50000 out of a frivolous lawsuit, and used that money to make roger & me. the movie was fairly honest and innocent, when compared to his works of deception nowadays, but it was clear then that he couldnt make an 'honest' living.

this movie is in no way his first political attack. have you seen bowling for columbine? the big one? have you read stupid white men or dude, wheres my country?. all of them have some element of political discontent, and in true moore fashion, all of them are filled with deception, half-truths, or just blatant lies.

And as Phisionary states, if his movies sway votes, he certainly is having an impact on the government. Moore is just a speakerbox. Its not his role to lobby the government singlehandedly. He is there to educate and enlighten, and to speak the minds of the masses. And judging by the reaction of the audiences of F911 (where there was far more applause and cheering then I have ever heard in a theater), he is doing just that.

And with that, I bid you adieu. It is past my bedtime. -zzZZZzzzz

he's not educating or enlightening anyone. he's perpetuating the ignorance that decimates this nation. as is clear by your blind support of him.

 

[hiln]

On Moore and his slacker tour. Is he telling them they can have clean underware and noodles if they vote for kerry? I thought he was just getting them to vote period. Is the latter against the law?

 

[othello]

But back to the point, you said you didn't find that scene disturbing at all. Why not?

i said it didnt bother me as much. geez... i swear, ever since i started posting politically here, its been nothing but assumptions, putting words in my mouth, and not fully reading what has been posted (by me and/or others). mech carries all three attributes around rather superciliously lol.

i know this is a very petty example, but its just getting annoying.

 

[Sprafa]

Mecha has about 100+ IQ points than you othello

 

[othello]

On Moore and his slacker tour. Is he telling them they can have clean underware and noodles if they vote for kerry? I thought he was just getting them to vote period. Is the latter against the law?

nope... hes doing it if they pledge a vote for john kerry... and yes it is illegal.

 

[Sprafa]

nope... hes doing it if they pledge a vote for john kerry... and yes it is illegal.

I'm sorry, so if I get a bunch of friends in a van and tell then I'll pay them in cash for voting for Kerry, that's illegal ?

 

[moppe]

nope... hes doing it if they pledge a vote for john kerry... and yes it is illegal.

Okey, but I got a few friends in the states, that wasn't going to vote.

Yesterday I convinced them to vote for Kerry.
That is five votes on him from me.

Sorry.

 

[othello]

I semi agree, with the above and about moore doing it more for fame. However I believe (and looking at moores past work), that he started his career for all the right reasons. He does/did? want to be a champion for the common person. Now I think he is about 50/50 fame fortune and cause. I still think he does it with the right intentions however I also feel that he likes the fame that follows it. (he does however do an awful lot of donating/funding similar causes which I find admirable)

ive never seen anything showing that he donates to anything. please enlighten me. ill admit, that roger & me seemed like it was started with the right intentions. however, even in that movie he was using deceptions and clever editing. but it did semi-well, and moore found his cashcow, and any ethics he had flew straight out the window.

I however would run it down like this:

Intelligence Agencies -30
Bush Administration -50
Congress -20

i wouldve done more

intelligence agencies - 40
clinton administration - 30
congress - 20
bush administration - 10

 

[othello]

I'm sorry, so if I get a bunch of friends in a van and tell then I'll pay them in cash for voting for Kerry, that's illegal ?

no... because its not a public bribe (i believe thats how the rules work).

 

[Neutrino]

i said it didnt bother me as much. geez... i swear, ever since i started posting politically here, its been nothing but assumptions, putting words in my mouth, and not fully reading what has been posted (by me and/or others). mech carries all three attributes around rather superciliously lol.

i know this is a very petty example, but its just getting annoying.

Actually you said it "didn't bother me so much." This is different than saying "as much" and can be interpreted to mean it didn't bother much at all. I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning.

People make assumption and put words in your mouth?

Oh, you mean just like you did here:

so you're all for loopholes around the system i assume?

None of us are perfect in our arguments. Please don't pretend that you are above such things.

You didn't answer the question by the way.

 

[Jakeic]

i wouldve done more

intelligence agencies - 40
clinton administration - 30
congress - 20
bush administration - 10

why give the bush administration any blaim at all? They were just victims of Clinton administration like the rest of us.

it is pretty freaking pathetic when the party that claims to stand up for taking responsibility for your own actions can't practice what they preach on any number of instances during the past 4 years. Can you name one person who was fired over 9/11 or the war in Iraq? You can't, because no one was.

 

[Sprafa]

why give the bush administration any blaim at all? They were just victims of Clinton administration like the rest of us.

I really, really hope that's sarcasm.

 

[othello]

Do you think Kerry is different? What about Nader? Or even Ted Kennedy or John McCain?

You've just fundamentally identified one of the problems with our government. Our politicans have to sell their points to the public. Does Moore bring that to attention? No, he just wants Bush out of office because of differing political idealogies.

Moore is no different than Bill O'Reilly.

bill o'reilly still has some merit to what he says... albeit, not much really. but hes the one strong voice the conservatives have, along with hannity & colmes,... i like hearing the 'right' being stuck up for... i just wish he was a bit more civil, and lot less arrogant.

Congress was privy to the same intelligence as the president was. Since Congress drew the same conclusions as the president, it is best to assume that they are equally at fault. Maybe more blame should go to Bush since he is the President, however a significant share of blame falls on Congress.

as was john kerry, who drew the exact same conclusions, and ademently defended the decision to go into iraq, until late 2002, when the wind changed and so did his mind. :dozey: besides that, clinton had been looking at related intel for years, yet did nothing... except... he signed a little thing called the 'Iraq Liberation Act' into law 1998, which declared officially that it was the policy of the United States to capture/disarm saddam and to liberate the Iraqi people.

hmmm...

 

[othello]

None of us are perfect in our arguments. Please don't pretend that you are above such things.

You didn't answer the question by the way.

the difference i actually said 'i assume' and didnt presume it to be true.

 

[Sprafa]

as was john kerry, who drew the exact same conclusions, and ademently defended the decision to go into iraq, until late 2002, when the wind changed and so did his mind. :dozey: besides that, clinton had been looking at related intel for years, yet did nothing... except... he signed a little thing called the 'Iraq Liberation Act' into law 1998, which declared officially that it was the policy of the United States to capture/disarm saddam and to liberate the Iraqi people.

Guess what. it wasn't the wind, it was the information that Bush wasn't allowing the UN do their job as he had promised, but trying to use the UN as another part of the puzzle to invade Iraq.

 

[othello]

why give the bush administration any blaim at all? They were just victims of Clinton administration like the rest of us.

it is pretty freaking pathetic when the party that claims to stand up for taking responsibility for your own actions can't practice what they preach on any number of instances during the past 4 years. Can you name one person who was fired over 9/11 or the war in Iraq? You can't, because no one was.

george tenet, head of the CIA... the man who said WMD's were a 'slam dunk' in iraq. which was a firm basis on which bush made his decision to invade and disarm/capture saddam.

 

[HunterSeeker]

I repeat: Define what a true solider is.

 

[Jakeic]

as was john kerry, who drew the exact same conclusions, and ademently defended the decision to go into iraq, until late 2002, when the wind changed and so did his mind.

god this kind of thinking is by far the dumbest kind.

we are not a bunch of idiots that are here to be told what to do by the people who hold public office, the people in office are their to do as we the idiots wish.

 

[Sprafa]

george tenet, head of the CIA... the man who said WMD's were a 'slam dunk' in iraq. which was a firm basis on which bush made his decision to invade and disarm/capture saddam.

The same man who cooperated with Operation Mass Appeal and Operation Rockigham.

Are you telling me Bush knew nothing of both ?

 

[othello]

Guess what. it wasn't the wind, it was the information that Bush wasn't allowing the UN do their job as he had promised, but trying to use the UN as another part of the puzzle to invade Iraq.

i beg to differ.

 

[Jakeic]

george tenet, head of the CIA... the man who said WMD's were a 'slam dunk' in iraq. which was a firm basis on which bush made his decision to invade and disarm/capture saddam.

well, you're wrong, he retired in order to spend more time with his family. Atleast that was what was released, whether or not he was pressured to do so i don't know.

 

[othello]

Wouldn't it be better to create a documentary on the lies and deceit Bush et al used to bring America into a war? Moore is hardly a danger to innocent lives whilst Bush is. People have to get their priorities right.

These people devoting so much effort to discrediting Moore have bigger issues to worry about.

since already been proven that bush did NOT lie about WMD's in iraq... what 'bigger issues' are there?

 

[othello]

well, you're wrong, he retired in order to spend more time with his family. Atleast that was what was released, whether or not he was pressured to do so i don't know.

for once, are we assuming that the goverment had nothing to do with a suspicious incident? can we say... double standard?

 

[Sprafa]

i beg to differ.

everything that shows me is that Kerry said they should remove Saddam from power.

If you remember Afghanistan, you don't have to invade the entire country with 300 000 troops to do so.

He kept the same godamn standduring the whole time. Remove Saddam because he is a regional threat.

 

[Jakeic]

for once, are we assuming that the goverment had nothing to do with a suspicious incident? can we say... double standard

like i said, he may of been pressured to do so, but if they were going to fire him, why not do so?

 

[Raziaar]

I've always wondered... Why do people go after the president and think that will solve all their problems? Its simply not true. The president is a figurehead. He does not have any amount of power that nearly equals the power of the Congress. The Congress are the people who run this country, make our laws, and basically dictate what we do, not the president.

Focus your efforts on the Congress not the president, and you'll actually make more of an impact. I guess most people just use the presidents as a means of a punchingbag since they are like I said, the figurehead and who the public readily knows about, not the obscure congressmen who I might add, are made up of both Liberals and Conservatives.

 

[Neutrino]

the difference i actually said 'i assume' and didnt presume it to be true.

"Assume" and "presume" might as well be the same thing in this context.

You did the exact same thing I did. You exagerated a statement in an attempt to make a point. However, I admitted to probably misunderstanding you and apologized for it.

But that is beside the point. Why do you bother to respond when you don't actually answer the question?

 

[othello]

First of all, Moore isn't bribing anyone to vote Kerry, he is tellilng eveyone just to vote, period.

false... moore is bribing people to vote for john kerry, which is illegal.

Just because he is speaking to a younger demographic, it scares you, typically because the people whom he is urging to vote are less likely to vote for your candidate. Get over it. We all have stake in this election, if someone doesn't vote your way, boo freakin' hoo.

what scares me is that people, like yourself, ignorantly buy into his proven-to-be bullshit. and continue to support him... yet continue to bash bush, no matter how much evidence vindicated him. so hypocritical...

And to the blinders comment. You had the nerve to say that hypocrisy was running rampant in this thread. The only hypocrit I've found in here is you. You claim moore is so bad then praise the people who make these films attacking him. They are doing the exact same thing, but on the opposite side of the fence. Funny thing is, moore attacked issues in his film, important issues. These guy are attacking moore, pretty pointless if you ask me.

are they? i didnt realize you had seen the film... although its apparent you havent. this movie hardly spends time personalizing their attacks on moore directly, but more on his methods, his philosophy, and his negative portrayals. really the only thing 'slanderous' about this film is its title... and now getting to the hypocrisy.

you people all tell me to open my mind, 'remove the blinders' whatever... and that im some right-wing nut bushie lover and blah blah blah. yet your reasons for hating bush are quite ill-founded, and in most cases, quite easily debunked. yet when any evidence is offered to the contrary, you simply turn a deaf ear. i would venture that i have done more anti-bush research than the majority of the people that have responded to any of my political posts. and thats sad...

anybody but bush right? lets all chant it together.

And you want to talk about political ethics? I'd call mass voter registration fraud a serious offense... How about shredding voter reg cards who've registered democrat. Does that not sound worse to you? Of course it doesn't.

ill assume you mean the registered voters who were purged from the registrar in florida? you're gonna have to do much better than that. that wouldve happened no matter who was running for president, as it was a mandate from a state election in 1998 to purge convicted felons from the database, due to voter fraud in said election. its just a statistic that most convicted felons are democrats. but hey.. dont let facts get in the way of your anti-bush sentiments!

 

[Raziaar]

everything that shows me is that Kerry said they should remove Saddam from power.

If you remember Afghanistan, you don't have to invade the entire country with 300 000 troops to do so.

He kept the same godamn standduring the whole time. Remove Saddam because he is a regional threat.

What should we do to remove Saddam from power eh? Send in 50,000 troops, maybe 20,000 troops or less?

Give me a break. At the time Saddam had one of the largest armies in the entire world centralized in a small country, easily outnumbering our own troops that we DID send I believe. Why go against history and smart military tactics by purposefully lessening the strength of your army when it can lead to total destruction?

 

[Sprafa]

What should we do to remove Saddam from power eh? Send in 50,000 troops, maybe 20,000 troops or less?

Give me a break. At the time Saddam had one of the largest armies in the entire world, easily outnumbering our own troops that we DID send I believe. Why go against history and smart military tactics by purposefully lessening the strength of your army when it can lead to total destruction?

:|

Actually I was thinking diplomacy.

War isn't the only way. That's Kerry's point.

 

[Jakeic]

in the first war, Saddam had the third largest army in the world and the second largest tank forces.

however, in the second, did he have an army?

 

[Raziaar]

:|

Actually I was thinking diplomacy.

War isn't the only way. That's Kerry's point.

In my opinion there was no negotiating with Saddam. He was continually breaking the laws of his restrictions.

 

[Raziaar]

in the first war, Saddam had the third largest army in the world and the second largest tank forces.

however, in the second, did he have an army?

Good question, I actually dont know. Looking back, I was basing what I said on the first war, not the second. I have no information about his armed forces in the second.

EDIT: Besides though, when you go on an invasion, you have to expect numbers that far surpass the given military numbers of an 'established' army. Taking into consideration unknown military units, guerilla units, rebel units, citizens taking up arms etc.

 

[othello]

Mecha has about 100+ IQ points than you othello

oh really.. whats his IQ then? he has a 266, really? impressive.