'Michael Moore Hates America' -- reviewed.

othello

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what's going on everybody. i live in grand prairie, tx... inbetween dallas and fort worth, south of irving, and east of arlington... just a point of reference. i drove the 20, or so, minute drive to the addison studio movie grill in prestonwood, tx. it's northeast of where i live. it was my girlfriend sara and i. here's a pic of her, if anyone cares.

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so, anyway, we arrived about an hour early. the showing was at 7:30 pm, and the website said to arrive 30 minutes early, but there was a cowboy game (vs. vikings) that night, so i was accounting for traffic when we left at 6 (rush hour always sucks in dallas). but to my suprise, traffic was relatively steady, so we arrived an hour early and got a parking spot under a tree.

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apparently, showing this film was just one of many in an event called the 'American Film Renaissance: Doing Film The Right Way'. a local AM radio station (570 KLIF) was sponsoring this event, as well as world net daily. here is the radio stations official truck.

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when you walked in the lobby there is a bar right in front of you. this place is a 'movie grill' so you can order real food and real drinks while you enjoy your film. they need more of these movie grills, really cool place. anyway, when you walk in there was a table setup with a swarm of conservative and right-wing literature and purchaseable media. there was also advertising for the other movies being shown that weekend. movies about elian gonzales (the cuban kid crisis), movies about bush, about our troops, about iraq, about michael moore, about ann coulter, about the liberal media, etc... everything from 2-3 hour films, to 20 minute shorts. oh, and there was also a webcast for therightway.tv

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ok... so after looking through all those pamphlets and reading about all those other movies... i grabbed a brochure about the AFR and headed to the line for the movie. my girl and i struck up a conversation with a few people here and there, but overall we just kept to ourselves... and patiently waited for the movie to be seated. the day before, they had showed Michael & Me... i wished i had been able to see that. and there was also a short about ann coulter, heh. overall there was about 40 or so movies being shown over the 4 day event.

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we sat in the very middle, all the way to the back/top. so we had the best seat in the house, imo. at each seat there was a little review questionaire about the movie you were viewing. it was for the AFR, not for mike wilson, lol. just your basic questions, on a scale of 1-5, comments, questions, contact info? while we waited for everyone to be seated, we ordered drinks and this guy handed out a free cd which read:
Wake Up America!

The thread to the USA's global prestige posed by the BBC-Guardian's axis

This CD contains articles, news releases, and other docs proving the BBC's and The Guardian's anti-Americanism and symbiosis -- and offers the means to expose both organizations
the screen was a slideshow of information about the 'wounded soldiers fund' or something like that. quotes from famous republicans and such... pretty random. only one screen mentioned michael moore and it said
American Film Renaissance

Michael Moore had his time, now it's our turn.

Welcome to the first conservative film festival in the world.

American Film Renaissance -- history unfolding before your eyes.
by the time the movie started, all 200 reserved seats had filled up and they had to bring extra seats in. after that it was standing room only... and, as we found out later, some people were turned away because they simply didnt have the room.

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and then the movie started. \:D/ ok, unbiased review time right? i can do that. 8)

well, the movie was nothing like i expected. i, like many people, judged the movie by its title. i expected moore to be land-blasted and venomously refuted with all intent of malice and ill-will. such was not the case. in fact, the harshest thing i remember mike wilson saying about moore, was that moore had 'pissed him off'. any slander of moore was done by the array of persons mike wilson interviewed... with the most blatant being big-boy penn, of penn & teller.

wilson did a very good job of not quoting moore out of context, and almost every time he showed moore speaking, the question moore is answering is heard as well. wilson also did a very good job of not slandering moore. he let moore contradict himself, and allowed moore to come across as odd, to say the least. i will say, for those who dont know, moore never conceded to an interview with wilson... ever. the movie shows a number of times that wilson contacts moore's production company [dog eat dog], and shows how many times he is ignored and forgotten. in fact, after a year and a half of asking for a 45-minute interview, and calling countless times to various places moore frequents (in an attempt to contact him), moore says in a tv interview (msnbc, i think... promoting bowling for columbine) that he has never heard of mike wilson or his movie. :roll:

the premise of the movie, is not so much that moore hates america, but that he portrays america so negatively, that it is very offending to the average viewer. wilson, shows a different side. he takes various people moore has used (bank employees from BFC, a congressman, etc), and tells the whole story... or at least, a more candid and truthful side. like how moore staged scenes over and over in the opening bank sequence. or how the 'vault' that 500 guns are contained in, is 300 miles away. or how the only gun in the bank that day, was the one moore wanted. or how he vehemently demanded to be able to walk out of the bank that day with said gun, when he called weeks in advance. the list goes on, and on, and on, and on... well, you get the idea.

wilson focuses on flint, the self-proclaimed hometown of moore, who is in fact a davison native. he shows how people are moving back because of more and more tax-break homes and various business oppurtunities. he talks to some actual flint natives about their view of flint, moore, america, and life in general. he also interviews various documentarians, filmogrophers, comedians, journalists, and many other people. one of most emotional parts of the movie, is when he talks to Sgt. Peter Damon... the man shown in F9/11 [without permission] after he had lost both of his arms after a terrible accident. the sgt. said something along the lines of, and im totally paraphrasing; "i was furious when i found out he had used me without my permission. what makes me even angrier is that people come away with the impression that i agree with him. its offensive. he portrays us as some poor helpless fools who didn't know what we were getting into. look, nobody sent me away, i joined because my life was heading in the wrong direction; my wife and i weren't together, my kids didn't have me in their life like they needed, so i joined the military to change my life... and it did. it changed my life for the better. we're not stupid, we sign up voluntarily, we knows there's a large risk." that's a very brief summation of that section of the movie, the sergeant said a lot more and it was very touching and left you feeling very inspired. later, during the Q&A wilson told us that he asked him why he doesn't just sue moore, he replied, "because thats not what im about, i lost my arms over there so he could make his stupid movie."

overall the movie was very upbeat and positive, a suprisingly refreshing alternative to moore's unnecessarily negative portrayal of the very people, and way of life, that have made him the very thing he claims to hate. a rich white man. there's a part where moore is speaking at the university of minnesota and wilson steps up to the Q&A mic and tells him, roughly, "im one of those 'wackos' and im making a documentary called michael moore hates america... i was wondering if you would sit donw for me, on-camera, for a 45 minute interview..." at this point moore cuts him off yelling, "you hate america! you are f*cking ruining this country! you just slandered me, you realize that! you need to think about that... i love america!". the funny part is, after moore's lecture at the univesity, many people came up to wilson and commended him for his actions. they also told him they thought it was suprisingly bad that moore yelled liked that, and definitely think moore should've agreed to the interview.

there's a lot more to this movie than my little review. this movie has heart. it has a positive intention. it shows that, in this great country, we should be able to all sit down and have a civil discussion about our beliefs and the ultimate truth. and in this pursuit of the truth, one must consider all sides of an issue... something that moore consistently fails to do. as one person mentions, if moore would show all sides to an issue, pro and con, he would be much more respected and would more than likely have some credibility with people other than the vast far left. as wilson said in the Q&A, if a red-china communist comes to said discussion [mentioned above], that should still be considered a viable viewpoint, and one that should be listened to. to so venomously deny anything opposing your opinions, especially when they are consistenly debunked by the right and the left... and everyone inbetween, is just ridiculous. while i came away despising mikey moore then i already did... it was for different reasons. it wasnt that moore refuses to admit he is wrong. it wasnt that moore is a hypocrite. it wasnt that moore has such devious ways of perpetuating his agenda. it wasnt that he seems to have no conscience in his chosen line of work. i came away despising his negativity and, for the first time, realizing that i had been offended by his 'documentaries' as well.

michael moore hates america is, ironically, a postive answer to the piles of shit (read: lies, deceits, half-truths, editing techniques, manipulative wordplay, offending insinuations, and blatant inaccuracies) and heaps of negativity moore has fed to us through his various outlets. i recommend its viewing to everyone who has, even so much as, heard of michael moore.

after the standing ovation, michael wilson answered some questions from the audience. included were some such as: what kind of film did you use? 95% DV. what do you think of mikey submitting F9/11 for best picture? i think that's great, maybe now we'll get best documentary. do you have any other future film plans? yes, we have a few film scripts and some ideas, but right now we're enjoying the fact that we finished this film and such. there were many more questions, but i dont remember every one of them. there was a lot of people voicing why they didnt like moore, and asking mike what he thought about it. overall it was a very good experience and i enjoyed myself thoroughly. afterwards mike was signing a few posters and AFR brochures, and talking to people individually, and taking pictures and such. we talked a little bit about fahrenhype 9/11 and how a lot of people are disregarding this movie due to its title (to which his fitting reply was "screw 'em" lol). we shook hands, i told him that i was very glad to see his movie, and i thanked him for making it, and that was that.

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also check out:

my review of Fahrenhype 9/11
 
But the thing is, Michael Moore loves America. Thats why he works so hard to share his opinions on the forces he thinks are destroying it.
 
f|uke said:
But the thing is, Michael Moore loves America. Thats why he works so hard to share his opinions on the forces he thinks are destroying it.

:LOL: :thumbs:
 
The "liberals hate America" argument is getting a bit old to tell the truth.
 
Neutrino said:
The "liberals hate America" argument is getting a bit old to tell the truth.

it wouldnt matter one bit if michael moore was a liberal or not.
 
so when can we expect "michael wilson is a lying ****: the movie"?
if you ask me, wilson is getting too big for his britches :O
someone needs to knock that guy down a few pegs :eek:

ps. your gf does not look pleased about being photographed.
i'd watch my back if i were you :)
 
To be honest, if someone came up to me and said "Hi, I'm one of those wackos and I'm currently making a film entitled 'qckbeam hates America', would you mind sitting down and giving me an interview for 45 minutes" I'd rip into them as well. It is slander, and it's unfounded.

You can disagree with Mike all you like, that's fine. But the man obviously loves the country and is doing what he's doing right now (visiting 60 college campuses around the United States promoting voting) because of that love. He made a movie dealing with the issues. The conservative response is a film attacking him. I'd watch a film dealing with the issues from a conservative standpoint. I won't watch a film that attacks a man because he says things the right doesn't like.
 
Yeah, it's getting rather tired. The correct title would be Michael Moore Hates George Bush and His Shitty Pointless War. That's more accurate.

And the movie is supposed to be all about truth, yet it's got a slanderous statement right in the title.

at this point moore cuts him off yelling, "you hate america! you are f*cking ruining this country! [...] you need to think about that... i love america!".

Wait, you criticise Moore for saying that, when the posters for this movie everywhere are boldly proclaiming the identical opposite message?
 
hahahaha that was sponsored in part by "worldnetdaily.com" and you want us to take it seriously? Thats just sad, Bush must fullfill the biblical prophecies!!!!!!!


hahahaha even weaker.
 
Neutrino said:
The "liberals hate America" argument is getting a bit old to tell the truth.
Seriously. Liberals are just as American as anybody. Its ridiculous that conservatives try to allege otherwise. Somewhere they got the idea that not supporting the current administration is unpatriotic. Questioning the government is a core value of democracy!

You'd almost think that conservatives would rather we live in a totalitarian society,. and how patriotic is that?
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Yeah, it's getting rather tired. The correct title would be Michael Moore Hates George Bush and His Shitty Pointless War. That's more accurate.
Damn straight.
 
othello said:
it wouldnt matter one bit if michael moore was a liberal or not.

Ok, the "Michael Moore hates America" argument is getting a bit old to tell the truth.

Better? :)
 
f|uke said:
Seriously. Liberals are just as American as anybody. Its ridiculous that conservatives try to allege otherwise. Somewhere they got the idea that not supporting the current administration is unpatriotic. Questioning the government is a core value of democracy!

You'd almost think that conservatives would rather we live in a totalitarian society,. and how patriotic is that?

And is it any more right that most liberals think Conservatives are morons for supporting bush?

EDIT: By the way, original poster, thanks for posting the review. I'm going to have to go out and see Farenheit 9/11, and then after, try and find a place to watch the movie you just reviewed. I live around the same area you do, but likely wont have a chance to find it to watch it.
 
Raziaar said:
And is it any more right that most liberals think Conservatives are morons for supporting bush?
Yes, of course it is more right! And it is fine for conservatives to think liberals are morons! But to say that they are unpatriotic is itself an unpatriotic act, as it undermines the principles of democracy.
 
f|uke said:
But the thing is, Michael Moore loves America. Thats why he works so hard to share his opinions on the forces he thinks are destroying it.

The day I believe that is the day pigs fly.

Michael Moore is in it for the fame and fortune than the truth of it. He just seems like that type of person to me. He wants the 'shock value', not the 'I care value'.
 
blahblahblah said:
The day I believe that is the day pigs fly.

Michael Moore is in it for the fame and fortune than the truth of it. He just seems like that type of person to me. He wants the 'shock value', not the 'I care value'.

And you call yourself a member of the gloglebag army.... ;(



I kid, the gloglebag army is open to everyone!!! Even conservative sun-worshippers :p
 
blahblahblah said:
The day I believe that is the day pigs fly.
Well then you and I believe two very different things. I believe his techniques are abrasive. I know he comes on strong. Yes he does want to be heard,. but he does not want to be heard for just anything, otherwise he would just go off and be the next Howard Stern. He wants to be the champion of the working class, the voice of the oppressed. I believe that he honestly believes he is a champion for justice. And millions of people do support him for this.
 
I'm a liberal and i hate the sun..
I wanna join!
Do i get a neat hat?
 
Ikerous said:
I'm a liberal and i hate the sun..
I wanna join!
Do i get a neat hat?

No hats, but you do get a penis machine, which looks like penis wearing a hat...if that counts for anything.
 
f|uke said:
Well then you and I believe two very different things. I believe his techniques are abrasive. I know he comes on strong. Yes he does want to be heard,. but he does not want to be heard for just anything, otherwise he would just go off and be the next Howard Stern. He wants to be the champion of the working class, the voice of the oppressed. I believe that he honestly believes he is a champion for justice. And millions of people do support him for this.

How can one be the voice of the oppressed and the working class when he makes millions of dollars?

I don't seem him doing films on other parts of the government. I'm sure Congress can use a swift kick in the pants. The president is a small part of the government.

Moore does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems with government. Yet, you call him a champion for justice?
 
but you also wear womens underwear so thats to be expected :p
edit: unless it wasnt you i remember saying that in another thread
 
blahblahblah said:
Moore does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems with government.
If he helps change the president, I disagree...
 
Phisionary said:
If he helps change the president, I disagree...

The president is a symptom of the problem. Not the cause. Take a deeper look in to how our government was founded and how it is run today.

I'm not talking about conspiracy, but a basic failure of effective government.
 
blahblahblah said:
How can one be the voice of the oppressed and the working class when he makes millions of dollars?

I don't seem him doing films on other parts of the government. I'm sure Congress can use a swift kick in the pants. The president is a small part of the government.

Moore does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems with government. Yet, you call him a champion for justice?

Have you seen farenheit blah? Moore actually does nail congress pretty hard in a few parts. The patriot act section for one.

I agree however. He should have focused more on congress. But he does attack the supreme court (bush appointed?) bush himself and congress in some sections, however he doesn't go as deep into the problems with them as I would have liked.
 
Ikerous said:
I havent the foggiest idea
What you just said.
taking the piss = joking or being sarcastic or making fun of something/someone
tbh = to be honest
Any help?
 
Innervision961 said:
Have you seen farenheit blah? Moore actually does nail congress pretty hard in a few parts. The patriot act section for one.

I agree however. He should have focused more on congress. But he does attack the supreme court (bush appointed?) bush himself and congress in some sections, however he doesn't go as deep into the problems with them as I would have liked.

No, that is why I refuse to comment on the specific of F9/11. I can comment on Moore in general and from his past films.

I firmly believe that the blame on the Iraq situation should be porportioned this way.

Intelligence Agencies - 40%
President Bush - 25%
Congress - 35%
 
blahblahblah said:
How can one be the voice of the oppressed and the working class when he makes millions of dollars?

I don't seem him doing films on other parts of the government. I'm sure Congress can use a swift kick in the pants. The president is a small part of the government.

Moore does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems with government. Yet, you call him a champion for justice?
Moore donates much of the proceeds of his films to various causes. And he formed his views and made his films before he made his money. The two are not mutually exclucive. F911 was his first real political attack. He picks his battles. And as Phisionary states, if his movies sway votes, he certainly is having an impact on the government. Moore is just a speakerbox. Its not his role to lobby the government singlehandedly. He is there to educate and enlighten, and to speak the minds of the masses. And judging by the reaction of the audiences of F911 (where there was far more applause and cheering then I have ever heard in a theater), he is doing just that.

And with that, I bid you adieu. It is past my bedtime. :sleep: -zzZZZzzzz
 
Reaktor4 said:
taking the piss = joking or being sarcastic or making fun of something/someone
tbh = to be honest
Any help?
Aw, yes.
I knew what tbh meant
But taking the piss..
That was just random
 
He is a self-described propagandist.... That's not news. So is Bush & Co. Otherwise they wouldn't have spent so much time trying to sell their points to the public. It was a hard-sell. Not hard enough I guess.
 
Ikerous said:
Aw, yes.
I knew what tbh meant
But taking the piss..
That was just random
I thought most americans knew what that meant by now.
So, its actually true then?
Oh, and are you a poet by any chance?
 
blahblahblah said:
No, that is why I refuse to comment on the specific of F9/11. I can comment on Moore in general and from his past films.

I firmly believe that the blame on the Iraq situation should be porportioned this way.

Intelligence Agencies - 40%
President Bush - 25%
Congress - 35%

I semi agree, with the above and about moore doing it more for fame. However I believe (and looking at moores past work), that he started his career for all the right reasons. He does/did? want to be a champion for the common person. Now I think he is about 50/50 fame fortune and cause. I still think he does it with the right intentions however I also feel that he likes the fame that follows it. (he does however do an awful lot of donating/funding similar causes which I find admirable)

I however would run it down like this:

Intelligence Agencies -30
Bush Administration -50
Congress -20

This is because there is evidence that the BA (bush admin) had drawn up war plans for iraq long ago. And i've witnessed with my own eyes how hard and heavy they've tried to link 9/11 with iraq to pass their war plans. I would say intel and BA were working hand in hand to pass this, congress bought into the same scare tactics that the public was given, and the sexed up intel they were given just pushed them further to the BA's side. Lest we forget the PNAC (project for the new american century) whos members happen to be a whos who of the BA and civillian pentagon. This of course may sound as conspiracy as one would like, but when it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and walks like a duck... I usually figure, its a duck. :)
 
Phisionary said:
He is a self-described propagandist.... That's not news. So is Bush & Co. Otherwise they wouldn't have spent so much time trying to sell their points to the public. It was a hard-sell. Not hard enough I guess.

Do you think Kerry is different? What about Nader? Or even Ted Kennedy or John McCain?

You've just fundamentally identified one of the problems with our government. Our politicans have to sell their points to the public. Does Moore bring that to attention? No, he just wants Bush out of office because of differing political idealogies.

Moore is no different than Bill O'Reilly.

[Edit]:

This is because there is evidence that the BA (bush admin) had drawn up war plans for iraq long ago. And i've witnessed with my own eyes how hard and heavy they've tried to link 9/11 with iraq to pass their war plans. I would say intel and BA were working hand in hand to pass this, congress bought into the same scare tactics that the public was given, and the sexed up intel they were given just pushed them further to the BA's side. Lest we forget the PNAC (project for the new american century) whos members happen to be a whos who of the BA and civillian pentagon. This of course may sound as conspiracy as one would like, but when it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and walks like a duck... I usually figure, its a duck

Congress was privy to the same intelligence as the president was. Since Congress drew the same conclusions as the president, it is best to assume that they are equally at fault. Maybe more blame should go to Bush since he is the President, however a significant share of blame falls on Congress.
 
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