Minnesota school shooting! (10 dead)

[Foxtrot]

Has this turned into an America-bashing thread? Why don't you go **** yourselves? It's not "only in America". It's everywhere.

You are right, it pretty much is.

the chances of this happening in any other civilized nation in the world is slim at best (sure once or twice but this is at epidemic porportions in the US) ...I've said it before I'll say it again, easy access to guns has to have played a big role in this

 

[ray_MAN]

Yes, we can readily buy guns at the local Walmart when we are twenty-one. However, it's up to the adults to keep their kids away. It's not America's fault. It's the fault of the human beings who cannot raise their offspring correctly. And it's the fault of the offspring for not knowing better.

 

[Fishlore]

It's funny that just about everyone here feels that games that glamorize violence while striving to make that violence as realistic as possible have no effect on people. Having access to a handgun however automatically turns someone into a cold blooded killer.

Guns have been available in this country since it's inception. Notice that the school shootings started right about the time when violent video games we're coming into their own. Throw in the media which dramatizes these events, desensitizes people and gives every social misfit something to look up to.

I agree that too many people own guns in this country. I agree tighter controls should exist. In my almost 30 years in the States I've never once seen a weapon fired at another human being, not once. Having said that though, I'd rather dodge bullets on a daily basis than live in a country like Canada. j/k

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Stately said the boy used his grandfather's police-issued weapon in the school rampage.

Thats gonna sting someone...


Everything we do affects us somehow, even playing computer games. You can't exercise control over the world and not expect some sort of reaction within yourself.

 

[Razor]

If weapons are going to be legal in America, the gun owner should ensure that not only themselves, but also everyone else living in their house is fully trained in the use of firearms so that accidents can't happen and any 12 year olds know about guns and respect their power.

Msn news says that the boy was a neo-nazi, that pretty much sums it all up. It also says that the boy was arrested as the police found evidence that he wanted to shoot up the school on Hitler's birthday, he denied all charges and was later released.

 

[SimonomiS]

Thats gonna sting someone...

Doubt the police will get in trouble, media will say "It was a heroic struggle for the gun but he was unfortunately overpowered by the crazed heavy metal influenced murderer." or something.

 

[ray_MAN]

You have to take this into consideration.
"100% of that community is American Indian."
"80% live in poverty."
Not a great condition to be raising your kid in and hope he will turn out right.

 

[SimonomiS]

You have to take this into consideration.
"100% of that community is American Indian."
"80% live in poverty."
Not a great condition to be raising your kid in and hope he will turn out right.

I get the need for the second one, but what does race have to do with it? Dont turn this into a racial thing please.

 

[ray_MAN]

I'm not. I am just saying, the environment was not as people expect. I am not racist. I am quoting the Daily News. I was trying to give a setting and a background.

 

[<RJMC>]

Has this turned into an America-bashing thread? Why don't you go **** yourselves? It's not "only in America". It's everywhere.

dont want to sound antiamerican but I didnt hav hear that hav hapenned in other countryes

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Its happened in lots of places. I don't remember it happening recently here...though people get stabbed and such like, all the time in school here, its just not shocking enough to get in the news anymore.

 

[Recoil]

Only in America...



(and Germany)

Yeah, there are sometimes smaller things happening, like a student (mostly at the age of 13-18) grabbing a (legally possessed) gun from his father or so, and bringing it to school. This mostly happens b/c this guys feel that they received unfair treatment in school (teacher gave'em a bad grade or so). It usually ends up with the guy firing a shot, fail to hit anything and shooting himself afterwards. Some kind of a spectacular exitus :| Funny though, that this always happens in the south of the country (Bavaria that is (which I do not like at all))...

...and there was of course the frenzy in Erfurt in 2002, where a pupil killed 17 people, including a policeman and himself.

All those guns were legally possessed. The law here allows a person at the age of 21 to own a license, that allows legally purchase of two handguns (though now semi-auto assault-rifles are avaiable somehow). You've got to have a reason for this license. Shooting clubs can provide such a reason, after 1-2 years of participation. This license is still pretty hard to get, there are test you have to pass, like psychological and technical tests. 10% of the households here posses legal firearms.

->there can't be no perfect (law-)system, it's all still human and thus likely to make mistakes.

 

[jimbo118]

Has this turned into an America-bashing thread? Why don't you go **** yourselves? It's not "only in America". It's everywhere.

where in 'everywhere' has this happened though?,1 thing i dont get is why you can go into your local walmart and by weapons like sub-machineguns?what exactly is the point of selling such powerful weapons,like that father who lost his son in columbine said "you dont go hunting with a tac 9"

 

[ray_MAN]

No, they are hunting rifles and pistols that you can buy in Walmart. But, they are still guns.

 

[Foxtrot]

where in 'everywhere' has this happened though?,1 thing i dont get is why you can go into your local walmart and by weapons like sub-machineguns?what exactly is the point of selling such powerful weapons,like that father who lost his son in columbine said "you dont go hunting with a tac 9"

You can buy sub-machineguns in walmart? ****ing sweet, I am going to go buy one and shoot up the school now, just because walmart sells SMGs...I wonder if I can get my AWP there too...

 

[jimbo118]

No, they are hunting rifles and pistols that you can buy in Walmart. But, they are still guns.

i see but didnt those kids in columbine get their guns in a walmart?and they had smgs right?

 

[Foxtrot]

i see but didnt those kids in columbine get their guns in a walmart?and they had smgs right?

I am pretty sure they did not have SMGs, they had shotguns, rifles, and I think pistols. gg Moore.

 

[short recoil]

i see but didnt those kids in columbine get their guns in a walmart?and they had smgs right?

Hi point 9mm carbine, semi auto i believe
Intratec tec-9 9mm pistol, semi auto
Stevens pump action shotgun, 5 rounds or something
And a sawn off double barrel shotgun.

The guns where aqquired through a few different sources, i know a girlfriend bought the tec 9 and the carbine from a gun show for them.

 

[Jangle]

on the ITV news the reporter said he seemed like the type that would do this because he listened to rock music and played computer games :|

 

[jimbo118]

I am pretty sure they did not have SMGs, they had shotguns, rifles, and I think pistols. gg Moore.

alrite my bad but im pretty sure i saw a tac 9 in the close circuit footage and that father said his son was killed by 1 so....

 

[Foxtrot]

on the ITV news the reporter said he seemed like the type that would do this because he listened to rock music and played computer games :|

God damn those computer games and music, work of the devil!

 

[Fishlore]

*edited, sorry I was too slow making a wal mart joke.*

 

[Garfield_]

USA is a bad country when you think about these incidents. I really hate when kids kill other kids. Damn this!

 

[Foxtrot]

USA is a bad country when you think about these incidents. I really hate when kids kill other kids. Damn this!

Ya, lets all move to Somalia, we can all become warlords!!

 

[Jimmeh]

Erm, you can't really blame TV, Games, Movies, Guns (how available they are) because really it just comes down to the individual using it. Just because you've got easy access to guns any sane person wouldn't grab them and go on a killing spree. The vast majority of people who own guns know what they're capable of, and don't do stupid things like running into schools shooting everything in sight. The fact is, whether it's a gun or it's a spoon - you've got to be pretty ****ed up inside.

 

[jimbo118]

*sarcasm is the lowest form of humor*

 

[short recoil]

Erm, you can't really blame TV, Games, Movies, Guns (how available they are) because really it just comes down to the individual using it. Just because you've got easy access to guns any sane person wouldn't grab them and go on a killing spree. The vast majority of people who own guns know what they're capable of, and don't do stupid things like running into schools shooting everything in sight. The fact is, whether it's a gun or it's a spoon - you've got to be pretty ****ed up inside.

yeah thats a fact everyone knows, what people are debating is if we should stop ourselves having guns for our own good.

And as far as games go, i guess you could get "ideas" of how to kill someone/ go on a rampage but it will never "make you" go on a killing spree.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

And as far as games go, i guess you could get "ideas" of how to kill someone/ go on a rampage but it will never "make you" go on a killing spree.

Its more subtle than that. Thats the problem with these things. Everyone misses the point when games are linked to violence. On the one side, idiots saying "This game made my son kill!" and on the other side, more idiots saying "Games have no effect on me!"

The effects of playing violent games, watching violent films and listening to..."violent" music will be hard to spot because they're ususally more gradual and don't always affect the parts of our lives you might think. It may just mean your brain develops a little differently and you happen to be more prone to feeling frsutrated or sad...it could even leave you feeling more content, more skillful at art or any number of things. Our interactions with the world are far more complex and on so many more levels than we see...saying it won't have an effect on you, is just nieve.


We change the world, and it changes us.

 

[Direwolf]

Wow, Farrowlesparrow gets my "Gets It" award for the year.

 

[Garfield_]

People dont know what to blame on so they might blame the weakest, in most cases Films, Games and stuff. Which is wrong, stop blaming and dont let your children play these games. Then would there be as much kid-killing ?

 

[ray_MAN]

Ya, lets all move to Somalia, we can all become warlords!!

Yeah! Aidid is dead, so the title is up for grabs!

 

[Direwolf]

I already am a Warlord. I just need a war.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

this is a ****ing joke!!! I cant believe they've already started to run the "it isnt the gun's fault" propaganda bullshit ...jeez you all have no excuse when this happens on a regular basis ..it's like americans are willfully participating in their own demise

....LOL.. wheres the america bashing?

sixchar

 

[CptStern]

sigh ...kerberos I already gave you my reasoning, you just chose to ignore it

 

[The Mullinator]

He got the guns from his grandfather who is a police officer. So basically that means this whole anti-american gun argument is 100% useless here considering the same situation could arise in any other western nation.

It also sounds like he considered himself a Nazi. So I don't think American culture had much to do with it either.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1443462,00.html

 

[lePobz]

He got the guns from his grandfather who is a police officer. So basically that means this whole anti-american gun argument is 100% useless here considering the same situation could arise in any other western nation.

Not the UK, although we do have armed police, they leave their guns at work under lock and key.

 

[Direwolf]

And lets face it: American society is a giant mish-mash of human society in general.
So if we're going to blame anyone it should be people. And thats just as stupid, since people in general are obviously not to blame for such random incidents.

 

[lePobz]

And lets face it: American society is a giant mish-mash of human society in general.
So if we're going to blame anyone it should be people. And thats just as stupid, since people in general are obviously not to blame for such random incidents.

Now that just offends me.

 

[ray_MAN]

And lets face it: American society is a giant mish-mash of human society in general.
So if we're going to blame anyone it should be people. And thats just as stupid, since people in general are obviously not to blame for such random incidents.

How do you feel about UCONN losing that basketball game, eh?

 

[Direwolf]

Now that just offends me.

Why? I'm American and I'd see that as a source of pride. Unless you find think my logic is bad, in which case thats just my fault, and I need to revise it express it better.
Edit: As for Basketball, while I'm certainly not happy to see them lose, I'm not exactly the biggest sports nut around here so I won't be weeping over it.