new abuse claims

CptStern

CptStern

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new abuse claims


"Sgt. Greg Ford said he repeatedly had to revive prisoners who had passed out, and once saw a soldier stand on the back of a handcuffed detainee's neck and pull his arms until they popped out of their sockets."


What needs to be done so that this abuse is stopped?....are they effing idiots? for every iraqi tortured you can bet any future americans captured will be treated the same or worse. God why cant the military get a handle on this? But then again there have been a few allegations that the CIA actually condones this sort of treatment...so if there are reprisals they have no one to blame but themselves
 
Yeah... It's sad. But that's how it is. Most soldiers wants to see action, and when they're stuck on prison duty, they'll make some action themselves. Indeed they're a bunch of ****ing idiots, and I sincerely hope they get their asses fried when they get back home. Bunch of primitive americans
 
They need more discipline. I'l admit being stuck in that situation will mess you up, but notice the claims are about American soldiers. Its not that they are bad people, but i dont think their traning is as intense as other armies.
 
yes but this makes no sense...Bush hammered into our heads that the US was going into Iraq for humanitarian reasons (amongst other reasons) but it is proven time and again that they have little to no regard for iraqi's. This is obviously not an isolated incident...more and more evidence is surfacing that the orders came from above
 
Farrowlesparrow said:
They need more discipline. I'l admit being stuck in that situation will mess you up, but notice the claims are about American soldiers. Its not that they are bad people, but i dont think their traning is as intense as other armies.
Click to expand...

I think it's because some american soldiers want payback for 9/11 and the propaganda machine linking saddam to 9/11 worked...a little too well
 
That may be so...Im sure there are lots of reasons they are doing it, but my point still stands. If they had more discipline then they simply wouldnt go beyond that line between abuse and being firm.
 
I know the Americans dont like Farrowlesparrow's view on this. But I agree somewhat.


I dont think they are bad people. I do think the majority know what they are doing and are decent people.


But I also think they do lack discipline.

A friend of my family was a Commander in the Royal Navy. He once told me that he did an exchange with an American aircraft carrier for a few days to train American staff in British ideas and vice versa for mutual benifit.

He commented how undisciplined the general crew was and how they were in no way efficient and basically acted as if the whole thing was for their own ammusement. Basically they were behaving as if part of a cruise liner and not a multibillion $ warship.



On a side note he also pointed out that the guy who was in charge of the on board cruise misiles was also the person who ran the on deck ice cream stall....... lol
 
yes but I also think they were instructed to do what they did. I see your point but there were also claims against british soldiers...and I think just recently there was some allegations that polish soldiers abused prisoners. This is systemic, it's not just a few bad apples. I agree that if they had better training some of the abuse might not have happened, but the torturing of suspects would have happened regardless because it was an order from above
 
CptStern said:
new abuse claims


"Sgt. Greg Ford said he repeatedly had to revive prisoners who had passed out, and once saw a soldier stand on the back of a handcuffed detainee's neck and pull his arms until they popped out of their sockets."


What needs to be done so that this abuse is stopped?....are they effing idiots? for every iraqi tortured you can bet any future americans captured will be treated the same or worse. God why cant the military get a handle on this? But then again there have been a few allegations that the CIA actually condones this sort of treatment...so if there are reprisals they have no one to blame but themselves
Click to expand...
Hahaha, be treated the same or worse, that is funny. Americans POWs are already treated way worse than that. But it will still make life for POWs worse, maybe not worse in general but defintely worse when there is a camera around.
 
huh? there is no proof that american POW's are treated like that...I might be wrong but I really dont remember anything about american POW's being abused
 
we need physcic people on the job, lol.. proving and believing in something is all very well, the important thing is theres a truth in all of this. and its not straight forward, as we can all see

that in itself offers some insight into the possible foul play by the US government.
 
CptStern did you see Private Lynch and Nick Berg. Yeah American POWs are treated great, NOT. They are treated far worse than Iraqi prisoners. Do some research on the American hostages during the first Gulf War for further evidence. Also, the soldier who stayed with Lynchs company during the ambush was reportedly executed because of how long and hard he fought.
 
I dont think you people who say the Americans get treated worse get it at all to be honest.

Of course they get treated worse by the extremist madmen. Far worse. But then THEY are the extremest dumbases with no morals and twisted minds brainwashed by madmen who want nothing but power..


The American soilders holding Iraqi's are supposed to be the liberators of iraq. The example to the Iraqi people. Their hope. They are supposed to be dicsiplined. They are NOT supposed to go arround abuseing prisoners.
 
seinfeldrules said:
CptStern did you see Private Lynch and Nick Berg. Yeah American POWs are treated great, NOT. They are treated far worse than Iraqi prisoners. Do some research on the American hostages during the first Gulf War for further evidence. Also, the soldier who stayed with Lynchs company during the ambush was reportedly executed because of how long and hard he fought.
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nick berg wasnt a POW, and lynch was treated fairly...there was no proof of her ever being abused...all of her injuries were sustained when she crashed into the Humvee in front of her
 
I don't remember the name on the soldier, but it was some black woman doing a supply run or something like that. The iraqis captured her, and treated her humane like they did with her male colleagues. Lynch weren't treated bad either as far as I can remember. Nick Berg was excecuted by MUSLIM FANATICS not IRAQI SOLDIERS...
 
Farrowlesparrow said:
That may be so...Im sure there are lots of reasons they are doing it, but my point still stands. If they had more discipline then they simply wouldnt go beyond that line between abuse and being firm.
Click to expand...

i can almost guarantee you that most of the abuse claims have come from National Guard members. These are not seasoned soldiers. They are blokes who went through basic training, then went back to civilian life, and once a month go to do some bs military work. They are not disciplined like the regular military. Since we had so many troops needed for the war, many National Guard members were activated. Although many play support roles, some of those roles include guarding prisoners. They were just not properly trained in dealing with prisoners (there is training for this). And i'll bet some were told by their superiors to abuse the prisoners. I bet most of the soldiers wouldn't take a crap without being ordered to do so.

btw, don't say that british troops are better trained. There have been reports they're doing the same thing
 
"Jessi lost three hours," Bragg wrote. "She lost them in the snapping bones, in the crash of the Humvee, in the torment her enemies inflicted on her after she was pulled from it."

The scars on Lynch's body and the medical records indicate she was anally raped, and "fill in the blanks of what Jessi lived through on the morning of March 23, 2003," Bragg wrote.

"The records do not tell whether her captors assaulted her almost lifeless, broken body after she was lifted from the wreckage, or if they assaulted her and then broke her bones into splinters until she was almost dead."

The 207-page saga published by Knopf hits bookstores next Tuesday, which is Veterans Day in the United States.


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In it, America's most famous GI - for the first time since her dramatic rescue on April 1 - dispels some of the mystery surrounding the battle that resulted in her capture, her treatment by the Iraqis in a hospital, and the searing pain that is her constant companion.

A 20-year-old from West Virginia, Lynch knew what could happen to her if she fell into Iraqi hands. A female pilot captured in the Persian Gulf War had been raped.

"Everyone knew what Saddam's soldiers did to women captives," Bragg wrote. "In (Lynch's) worst nightmares, she stood alone in that desert as the trucks of her own army pulled away."
Click to expand...

Yeah no abuse here!
 
Adidajs said:
i can almost guarantee you that most of the abuse claims have come from National Guard members. These are not seasoned soldiers. They are blokes who went through basic training, then went back to civilian life, and once a month go to do some bs military work. They are not disciplined like the regular military. Since we had so many troops needed for the war, many National Guard members were activated. Although many play support roles, some of those roles include guarding prisoners. They were just not properly trained in dealing with prisoners (there is training for this). And i'll bet some were told by their superiors to abuse the prisoners. I bet most of the soldiers wouldn't take a crap without being ordered to do so.
Click to expand...


the cia conducts the torturing of suspects. the abuse photos may have come from the national gaurd but the torturing of suspects is in the hands of the CIA
 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/US/iraq_GMA030220POW_lawsuit.html

Storr's A-10 attack jet was shot down over Kuwait on Feb. 2, 1991. He was captured and taken to Baghdad, where he was held prisoner for 33 days. The beatings started the very first day, and his captors beat him "just because they liked it," Storr said.

Navy Lt. Jeffrey Zaun, a navigator-bombardier, was shot down on his first combat flight over Iraq on Jan. 17, 1991, in an A-6E Intruder. He spent 46 days in captivity.

Zaun was forced to make a propaganda videotape denouncing the war against Iraq. He made newsmagazine covers and was deemed "the face of the war." His Iraqi captors gave him the impression they would kill him if he didn't cooperate.

"The worst part was being locked up in my cell and thinking they would shoot me," Zaun said."I thought at some point these guys would kill us."

Storr said that when his answers were unsatisfactory, he was shocked with an electric prod. His captors made sure he was always blindfolded, handcuffed, cold and hungry.

At his lowest moment Storr was vomiting, suffering from a broken nose, a punctured eardrum and a dislocated shoulder, and hoping he would just die.
Click to expand...

"They were kicking and beating me," Storr told ABCNEWS' Good Morning America, recalling his days as a prisoner of war in Iraq. "I was in a lot of pain and they were threatening to kill me. They were not asking any more questions. I was on the ground screaming, wondering, 'Why don't they just kill me?' "
Click to expand...

Look at the image on that page, then tell me how American POWs were treated.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Yeah no abuse here!
Click to expand...

omg get a clue, stop reading fox news. The doctors who were helping lynch in an iraqi hospital tried on two different occasions to return her to the americans...who just opened fired on the ambulance when they came to a check point.

here read this
 
omg!!! why do you pull out an article from 13 years ago? where is the proof they abuse american pows in this war. That's like saying that since america was segregated 50 years ago it must still be today
Click to expand...

LOL do you honesly believe Saddam changed his mindset?
 
sheesh, I could beat you about the head with the truth and you'd still try to justify it. What you just said is not what I was asking for..I said I want proof it happens today right now not 13 years ago
 
So tell me stern, how did the Americans fake Lynch's rape? How about the broken bones? Have you seen the pictures/footage of her?
 
Hehe... fine way to illustrate your point seinfeldrules... smooth, real smooth...
 
Have you seen the pictures of the iraqi prisoners raping eachother? ****ing disgusting. Same goes for Lynch's rape, unless it was set up by the gov like her rescue...
 
In 2000, the authorities reportedly introduced tongue amputation as a punishment for persons who criticize Saddam Hussein or his family, and on July 17, government authorities reportedly amputated the tongue of a person who allegedly criticized Saddam Hussein. Authorities reportedly performed the amputation in front of a large crowd. Similar tongue amputations also reportedly occurred.
Click to expand...

Tell me, does it sound like a man like this would really change his methods? :rolleyes: Be realistic now.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect4.html

LOL and here comes another conspiracy theory, the whole Lynch situation was a fraud! :rolleyes:
 
Champ said:
Have you seen the pictures of the iraqi prisoners raping eachother? ****ing disgusting. Same goes for Lynch's rape, unless it was set up by the gov like her rescue...
Click to expand...
Did I ever claim this abuse did not happen as it did against Lynch? Nope, it happened in both cases.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Did I ever claim this abuse did not happen as it did against Lynch? Nope, it happened in both cases.
Click to expand...


for her own mouth IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!! she wasnt awake for most of her time in the hospital. he doctors who examined her in germanysaid her injuries were consistant to those recieved in an AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT!!!!!!
 
Link please

for her own mouth IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!!! she wasnt awake for most of her time in the hospital. he doctors who examined her in germanysaid her injuries were consistant to those recieved in an AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT!!!!!!
Click to expand...
 
I think the British could take back America right now if they tried... :x
 
seinfeldrules:

Mate he is completely right in this case. There is no real debate about it. She has said many times that the stuff the US govt said about her fighting on even though she was surrounded and the way in which she was treated was all false.
 
I ask you for proof the iraqi's are torturing POW's and you give me links to saddam killing his people. Well no shit sherlock, it doesnt take a genius to see that. Stop sidestepping.
 
"torture" i think is a term that is loosely thrown around with interrogation of suspects. There are a lot of psychological methods to break down prisoners (light, food, sound) . Look, there is a war over there. Conflict is still going on. Coalition forces are losing men everyday. When they capture suspects, they need to determine if that prisoner has intel that could stop another senseless attack. imo, torture shouldn't be outlawed in all cases (just most).

oh, and saddam never stopped torturing people. His sons carried on his legacy.

and do you guys really believe that the Lynch episode was faked? You're probably the same people who give credence to the idea that the Moon landings were faked too.
 
We werent in there long enough to lose many men stern! God, you act as if Saddam would not commit the same acts, yet I have posted link after link disproving your point. I gave you evidence Iraqis did and have tortured American POWs when given the chance. I have also provided evidence that Saddam had not changed his ways since the First Gulf War. Who do you think the men are that take hostages and use roadside bombs. They are many of Saddam's ex-workers and conspirators.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Link please
Click to expand...

"Two Pentagon officials in interviews with the Washington Times also cast doubt on the Post report of Lynch "fighting to the death." The officials said all evidence suggests that Lynch's truck crashed in the chaos of the ambush. She suffered several bone fractures and was in no position to put up a fight, the officials said. "


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32824

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/11/1068329536658.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1107-06.htm

"But subsequent investigations determined that Ms. Lynch was injured by the crash of her vehicle, her weapon jammed before she could fire, the Iraqi doctors treated her kindly, and the hospital was already in friendly hands when her rescuers arrived."
 
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