new abuse claims

[CptStern]

I needed time to read it, ya know!

 

[clarky003]

you seem to have an answer to everything Seinfeld, , how can you possibly be wrong , 'ever' :upstare:

 

[seinfeldrules]

you seem to have an answer to everything Seinfeld

Well, I do my damndest . Ask me about some quantam physics stuff and Im sure you could stump me .

how can you possibly be wrong , 'ever'

It has been known to happen, nobody is perfect.

 

[Pogrom]

We arent, hence the people who perpetrated the crimes are being tried in a court of law, I cannot say the same for the people who kill and humiliate Americans around the globe on a daily basis. We are accountable for such actions, most of our enemies are not.

But you said earlier that terrorists are not subject to the Geneva convention. This effectively means they are being denied basic rights.

Not even mass-murderers and child rapists are denied human rights when they are apprehended.

Not even WAR CRIMINALS!

Yet the USA is doing this everyday. By taking 'special' prisoners to countries with no laws about torture, the USA can torture them with impunity.

www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,882002,00.html

www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/04/15/eu8432.htm

www.amnesty.ie/user/content/view/full/2123/

 

[seinfeldrules]

I dont see how you are rebuking my statement at all. I am saying that the Americans who perputrated the acts in Abu Gharib are being prosecuted, how about the men who commited the attrocity on Nick Berg. Where is the huge international cry for them to be brought to justice?

 

[Pogrom]

I dont see how you are rebuking my statement at all. I am saying that the Americans who perputrated the acts in Abu Gharib are being prosecuted, how about the men who commited the attrocity on Nick Berg. Where is the huge international cry for them to be brought to justice?

Nick Berg? What atrocity? Cutting the head off a cadaver?

Nick Berg may have been killed before the video was filmed.

*SNIP*

The video footage was reviewed by the lead surgeon at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital. "I have to say, it does look quite strange. If they were in fact beheading a live body, I would expect the entire area to be covered in blood. All of them should be totally covered in blood."

Quotes taken from the Sydney Morning Herald, at www.smh.com.au

Nevertheless, that event was condemned by every country around the world. Just as the Abu Grahib atrocities were condemned.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Yeahhhhhhhhhhh (in best Office Space impression) did you see the video? Hmmmmm.... This is one of the more wild conspiracy theories to which I preach against. You seemed above this kind of stuff pogrom, maybe I was wrong ;( .

Yeah it was condemned, but not to nearly the length of Abu Gharib. Abu Gharib is going on what a month and a half? Nick Berg has already been forgotten for the most part.

 

[Pogrom]

I didn't say I had chosen a side on the issue. I don't believe the US killed him. I just have to say that the evidence is strange enough for me to have unsettling questions. Anyone with a basic knowledge of anatomy would have the same apprehension I do.

I did see the video, but nevermind. We're getting off the subject.


Yes, Nick Berg's incident (however it happened) has not been condemned as rigorously as Abu Grahib.

However, people aren't condemning Abu Grahib incidents. They are condemning what seems to be a systemic culture of abuse and torture. Not to mention the cover up that has gone along with it.

The US isn't alone on this - the Aussie government has been copping a lot of flack lately - since it was revealed they knew about the situation in Abu Grahib since last July.

The fact remains, these ARE abuses of Human Rights. They are NOT the actions of some 'undisciplined, bad apples'. These actions were endorsed, some of them at the highest levels.

And I still maintain that the military investigating the military is wrong. Why are they afraid of an independant investigation?

Here's something you might relate to. I recall you getting all righteous about Clinton in another thread. What if he had said that there would be no bipartisan investigation into the infidelities? What if he said he'd conduct an internal investigation with his own staff?

 

[seinfeldrules]

White House procedure and military procedure are two totally different things. I can see how you can expect an independent investigation, but with the military it just isnt likely under any circumstance. Trust me, Americans want these men brought to justice as much as anyone else does, if not more so.

 

[Pogrom]

White House procedure and military procedure are two totally different things. I can see how you can expect an independent investigation, but with the military it just isnt likely under any circumstance. Trust me, Americans want these men brought to justice as much as anyone else does, if not more so.

I'm afraid the rest of the world doubts America's commitment to justice. I mean, America doesn't support the international court of law. America is not a signatory to the treaty banning war crimes.

America takes every chance to make Americans unaccountable to other nations. Especially American soldiers.

Yet they feel totally justified holding citizens of other countries without charge, and holding them up to international standards.

Personally, do you or do you not find it hypocritical that the US wants Saddam to be tried for War Crimes - when no citizen of the US can legally be tried for the same thing?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Personally, do you or do you not find it hypocritical that the US wants Saddam to be tried for War Crimes - when no citizen of the US can legally be tried for the same thing?

I'll say this before I head out for the night. Has any American citizen killed 2 million innocent civilians in cold blood?

 

[Pogrom]

I'll say this before I head out for the night. Has any American citizen killed 2 million innocent civilians in cold blood?

Two words: Mai Lai