new california bill.. this is insane

[ericms]

I can feel the individual neurons of my brain catching fire. By your logic, one can fill in [x] however he likes:

"I, much to the chagrin of the scientific and reasonable people around me, contend that [x] is an unnatural thing and/or disease which must be cured. Whether [x] actually is an unnatural thing and/or disease does not matter; the fact that I believe it means you all have to listen to me."


Good. Go away.

Wow you really can't seem to get through you thick skull that I PERSONALLY believe that it is a disease or deficiency because either way it is not what nature intended and thus not normal functioning. REMEMBER just because I believe this doesen't mean I'm ruler of the universe (if I were I'd probably roundhouse kick you in the thigh right now).

If people were to never disagree with already established rules then where would science be today? Natural hygienists disagree with alot of rules that constitue medical science. My reasoning really doesen't sound as crazy as you make it out. It sounds like to me that you want an excuse to put people down without fully understanding their arguement... which is a perfect reason to be in the politics forum but still..

Here is an extended definition of what Sulk wrote (who could at least see how I could perhaps reason):

Sometimes the term is used broadly to include injuries, disabilities, syndromes, symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts these may be considered distinguishable categories.

Atypical variation of structure and function and deviant behaviors? Hmm maybe I'm not SOO far off on this.

 

[CptStern]

your argument isnt crazy it's stupid ..your opinion is meaningless because it isnt supported by even a shred of evidence ..it's pure speculatative conjecture ... and does nothing besides reveal your bigotry

 

[Glirk Dient]

Wow you really can't seem to get through you thick skull that I PERSONALLY believe that it is a disease or deficiency because either way it is not what nature intended and thus not normal functioning. REMEMBER just because I believe this doesen't mean I'm ruler of the universe (if I were I'd probably roundhouse kick you in the thigh right now).

If people were to never disagree with already established rules then where would science be today? Natural hygienists disagree with alot of rules that constitue medical science. My reasoning really doesen't sound as crazy as you make it out. It sounds like to me that you want an excuse to put people down without fully understanding their arguement... which is a perfect reason to be in the politics forum but still..

Did nature intend for people to be born with down syndrome? What about being born with serious diseases? What about being born with a mental illness?

Nature didn't intend for those things to happen. There are plenty of articles on the net saying homosexuality is genetic and plenty saying it isn't. All claiming to have scientific support, you could at least have linked to one of those.

 

[ericms]

It isn't stupid. It makes sense. Nature is trying to influence us to breed and that is what is common among all sexual species. Stop just looking to see if the name is in a list of diseases and start looking at the definition of a disease. Unless the definitions I've been looking at are wrong then I don't see how someone couldn't reason what I am. Do most of you call an argument stupid if it doesen't follow your conventional ways?

Stern too bad there are alot of people like you running this world.

 

[Solaris]

Ban ericms.

 

[CptStern]

It isn't stupid. It makes sense. Nature is trying to influence us to breed and that is what is common among all sexual species. Stop just looking to see if the name is in a list of diseases and start looking at the definition of a disease. Unless the definitions I've been looking at are wrong then I don't see how someone couldn't reason what I am. Do most of you call an argument stupid if it doesen't follow your conventional ways?

Stern too bad there are alot of people like you running this world.

it is stupid because you cant follow simple logic: you say that because a disease can be an "abnormal condition" therefore homosexuality being abnormal (your vague reasoning: it goes against nature, which proves nothing because once again you dont have any evidence to back you up) makes it a disease ..logic fallacy and lack of common sense aside that is not enough to prove your point and does nothing but reveal your ignorance

this isnt a case of people attacking you because your views are different, it's a case of people attacking you because your views are offensive

 

[el Chi]

It isn't stupid. It makes sense. Nature is trying to influence us to breed and that is what is common among all sexual species. Stop just looking to see if the name is in a list of diseases and start looking at the definition of a disease. Unless the definitions I've been looking at are wrong then I don't see how someone couldn't reason what I am. Do most of you call an argument stupid if it doesen't follow your conventional ways?

Stern too bad there are alot of people like you running this world.

Sulkdodds already posted a different definition from Wikipedia, that made a lot more sense than the one you gave, and was far more specific and thus, more credible.

I'd try and argue with you, but there's no point. You are a rampant homophobe and completely impermeable to reason.

 

[Raeven0]

I PERSONALLY believe that it is a disease

Yes, that is what I SAID. By your logic, it's quite valid to define having a vagina as a disease. That doesn't change the fact that IT ****ING ISN'T!

You are a rampant homophobe and completely impermeable to reason.

That seems about right.

 

[ericms]

Hah, el Chi it's funny because that definition is from the same source. Here is the whole thing (I just included what he left off):

A disease is any abnormal condition of the body or mind that causes discomfort, dysfunction, or distress to the person affected or those in contact with the person. Sometimes the term is used broadly to include injuries, disabilities, syndromes, symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts these may be considered distinguishable categories.

Stern to me it is abnormal because it makes absolutely no sense in that us sexually reproducing creatures exhibit an attraction to the other sex. It makes sense that we do since it is how we keep our species in this world for generations to come. Why would this happen then? I just think it is a symptom of a larger problem but maybe I overreacted. I don't find homosexuality to be offensive, I just don't agree with it. I can still carry a normal conversation with a homosexual.

Raeven0 start reading my entire posts please. Oh and you must really not understand my logic if you say "By your logic, it's quite valid to define having a vagina as a disease."

Oh and how come no one is arguing with Raziaar? He's said basically what I'm saying homosexuality is: Something that wasn't intended to be because of a bodily dysfunction.

 

[el Chi]

Raziaar isn't saying the same thing as you. In fact, at one point he was calling your argument into question. You responded by insulting his avatar. A compelling counter-argument, if ever there was one.

 

[Sulkdodds]

"Sometimes the term is used broadly to include injuries, disabilities, syndromes, symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts these may be considered distinguishable categories."

The reason I left that out was because it's very vague and the 'broad meaning' isn't really relevant. I once saw two guys on this forum argue about the definition of religion for ages -one was trying to prove that atheism was a religion. That man continuously cited the third-down, super-vague definition that was there because 'religion' can be used broadly as a loose term for something someone feels strongly about. When eating a meal, the last thing I eat must be meat. It's like a religion.

In a similar way, what Wikipedia is saying could be that the word 'disease' can be used very broadly. For example: humans are a disease and we are the cure. Humans aren't, according to the actual scientific definition of disease, a disease.

That part of the definition really doesn't prove anything, and isn't relevant. The whole point of a disease is that it causes discomfort or inconvenience to a person; otherwise it's not a disease. It isn't just 'different from the norm'. If that were not true, being double-jointed would be a disease.

A disease is, fundamentally, something wrong with a person.
Homosexuality stops people from breeding naturally, but I contend that this doesn't count because our sole purpose is not to breed, and niether is it impossible for a gay man or woman to have children (SCIENCE!).

And even then: let's, for a moment, pretend you're right. Homosexuality is a disease.
What does that change?
Absolutely nothing, to my mind.

 

[el Chi]

Well, apart from the connotations that that means it ought to be "cured" and not talked about in history class.

 

[ericms]

I don't think we need to cure it specifically. I just had a problem with people saying it may have been intentional because it sounds like flawed logic and I don't believe it was nature's fault (any disease isn't nature's fault really).

They're fully possible to breed but my problem is it's like depression which may influence something for a bad cause (like in depression's case death). Maybe I am overreacting in terms of how large it will grow though. See I'm not a homophobe!

 

[el Chi]

any disease isn't nature's fault really

Well, yes it is. A virus is natural, and that causes diseases and illnesses within us, as are germs, etc.

They're fully possible to breed but my problem is it's like depression which may influence something for a bad cause (like in depression's case death). Maybe I am overreacting in terms of how large it will grow though. See I'm not a homophobe!

1. If depression potentially causes suicide (ie: death) then what exactly are the effects of homosexuality supposed to be?
2. Yes you are over-reacting, homosexuality poses no threat to the continuation of the human race whatsoever.
3. I disagree; you're homophobic.

 

[Sulkdodds]

All homophobic means is 'prejudiced against gays'.

Since you seem to hold it self-evident that homosexuality is something 'like depression' which can 'influence something for a bad cause' on apparently no basis (or are, at least, unwilling to share what led you to this conclusion)...then yes, you are homophobic.

 

[Teta_Bonita]

If homosexuality is not a choice, and not a disease, than what is it?

 

[Solaris]

If homosexuality is not a choice, and not a disease, than what is it?

Whatever 'gender' is. Or hair colour.

 

[Raeven0]

Whatever 'gender' is

Gender is a grammatical classification. The word you want is "sex".

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I say, "Forward with Gay History!" Here here!

 

[ericms]

Well, yes it is. A virus is natural, and that causes diseases and illnesses within us, as are germs, etc.

1. If depression potentially causes suicide (ie: death) then what exactly are the effects of homosexuality supposed to be?
2. Yes you are over-reacting, homosexuality poses no threat to the continuation of the human race whatsoever.
3. I disagree; you're homophobic.

I didn't say a virus wasn't natural. I said it wasn't nature's fault, it was just following the rules (treat your body badly and bad shit happens to it). Homosexuality could have an affect but no, probably nothing threatening to our species. I'm not a homophobe! Listen to this and listen closely: I do not hate/fear homosexuals. I just disagree with homosexuality (there is more to a person then their choice of what sex they're attracted to). I don't see how this can be offensive?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I just disagree with homosexuality (there is more to a person then their choice of what sex they're attracted to). I don't see how this can be offensive?

Your not being offensive. I'm gay, so ... I should know whats not offensive to someone whose apart of the culture and what is offensive.

Anyway, for future reference, its your right to disagree with what it is, but its not anyone's right to infringe upon what it is and the people who participate in its lifestyle.

 

[Raeven0]

I'm not a homophobe! [...] I just disagree with homosexuality

"I think white is the only natural, proper skin colour. But I'm not a racist!"

 

[Captain M4d]

What if a white man led the civil rights movement?
You're treating people differently based on skin color and sexual orientation.
I thought we were supposed to ignore those differences.

Ignore them? We're supposed to embrace our differences and love each other for them! I guess your not too cultural.

 

[ericms]

No more like:

"My political affiliation disagrees with your own, but I do not hate you or fear you"

 

[Raziaar]

"I think white is the only natural, proper skin colour. But I'm not a racist!"

You mean peach? <chuckles> Cause everybody has white skin, if you take away the pigmentation.

 

[Raeven0]

"My political affiliation disagrees with your own, but I do not hate you or fear you"

I chose my political affiliation. I didn't choose my sexuality, and neither did anyone else here. If you're not a homophobe despite your clear distaste for homosexuality, then, logically, I'm not a racist despite any malice I may exhibit toward black skin.

You mean peach? <chuckles> Cause everybody has white skin, if you take away the pigmentation.

Well, yeah, it's not pure white--but I'm still gonna call myself a white boy

 

[ericms]

Raeven0 maybe I should've said that I disagree with teaching it in schools just for the sake of it having to do with homosexuality. You think it is equally comparable to someone's race (which it can be on certain levels but isn't the same thing). I don't consider myself homophobic because from the definitions I've read they say you must either hate or fear THE PERSON who is homosexual OR you hate or fear homosexuals AND homosexuality.

I may be a homophobe but these definitions don't technically say I am. Who knows you may be right though.. You can choose whether you are or aren't a homosexual in some cases by, in my opinion switching to what I believe in. Even if I am technically a homophobic it doesen't change the fact that I don't hate/fear homosexuals which to me is the most important matter of how offensive it is. I hope you're still reading my post that raeven0 .

 

[Raziaar]

Well, yeah, it's not pure white--but I'm still gonna call myself a white boy

Ugh. I hate that term. I get called that all the time in a derogatory way.

 

[Lemonking]

If homosexuality is not a choice, and not a disease, than what is it?

I thought about this lately, why would you care If someone prefers cock,or vagina?
what differnce does that make when you talk to someone?

 

[15357]

I've learned (unofficially btw, by our teacher) that homosexuality was a DNA mutation thing... But I may be (or probably) wrong.

 

[Lemonking]

I've learned (unofficially btw, by our teacher) that homosexuality was a DNA mutation thing... But I may be (or probably) wrong.

even if it was,what differnce does it make?

 

[Raziaar]

even if it was,what differnce does it make?

It means the reality of the X-Men is that much closer! <rubs his temples with the pads of his fingertips>

 

[15357]

It means the reality of the X-Men is that much closer! <rubs his temples with the pads of his fingertips>

Exactly!

*votes yes for mutant registration act*

 

[P43.2/1Gig/X800P]

I thought the Definition of GAY was = Being happy.

 

[Raziaar]

I thought the Definition of GAY was = Being happy.

Can you ever truely be happy without same sexing loving?

 

[Kadayi]

The great debate:-

We all want to be treated the same, but we all want to be seen as different.

Personally I have little time for seperatists of any kind (those who argue for distinctness), whether that be on lines of race, religion, nationality or sexual preference. To my mind these people are what hold the human race back from moving forward, because they are too busy fighting their sandpit wars of 'he said, she said' to ever look beyond the ends of their noses.