New protest protocol proposed.

[kirovman]

In the UK, Police Chiefs have urged that flag burning is to be banned (of any national flag, I guess)
and during demonstrations, covering of the face is to be banned.

And tougher powers are proposed to be able to arrest demonstrators.


The reasons being: To clamp down on extremists, and to reassure the public that the police are acting (apparently they are perceived by the public of being too passive during violent protests).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6095260.stm

 

[Solaris]

Covering of face banned?
That means no dressing up or wearing masks.

I'm all for flag burning too.

 

[kirovman]

Covering of face banned?
That means no dressing up or wearing masks.

Yeah, and they explicitly said that it did not include Muslim women wearing the veil.

I'm all for flag burning too.

I dunno, I don't respect flag burning, but I don't think it should be banned.

 

[Solaris]

It's a bullshit law. And the rightwingies are going to jump all over it for that veil mention.

 

[Raziaar]

It's part of their faith. I don't have any problem with it unless the women want to remove them.

The only problem I have with the veils, is when men force the women to wear them.

 

[delusional]

raaaaahhhhrrrrr!!!!!! best law evar!!!! now we ban all protests then islam then freethought biatches!!!!!!!! stupid liberal scum



j/k



actually that was really me?

 

[kirovman]

:O You suprise me delusional! :shh:

 

[delusional]

its what i do

 

[Link]

It's part of their faith. I don't have any problem with it unless the women want to remove them.

The only problem I have with the veils, is when men force the women to wear them.

Its actually not in the Quran. They are meant to "dress modestly", but the face veil is a cultural thing rather than religious acording to a muslim mate.

 

[15357]

We did that YEARS ago, and well, it didn't work. Legal protesters were the only ones not covering their faces and burning flags, and big legal protesting isn't that common compared to illegal protesting.


And I'm all for the arresting of violent protesters.

 

[kirovman]

Ah good old Christian modesty. Without it, we would surely have no underpants!

 

[repiV]

True. It's a cultural thing. Just like most of us wear pants and cover our gentials... some of them cover they're faces. Perfectly acceptable in my book.

In our society, it's absolutely not acceptable to cover your face. When did this change just to accomodate Muslims, when the veil is not even tolerated in a number of genuine Islamic countries?
You live in someone else's land, you play by their damn rules. And we are more tolerant of the more undesirable elements of Islam than Turkey, Singapore or Malaysia are, which is absolute insanity.

 

[Solaris]

In our society, it's absolutely not acceptable to cover your face. When did this change just to accomodate Muslims, when the veil is not even tolerated in a number of genuine Islamic countries?
You live in someone else's land, you play by their damn rules. And we are more tolerant of the more undesirable elements of Islam than Turkey, Singapore or Malaysia are, which is absolute insanity.

In our society people are free to dress however the **** they want as long as it is decent.

 

[repiV]

In our society people are free to dress however the **** they want as long as it is decent.

People are free to stand at Trafalgar Square and talk about how great the BNP are, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

 

[Raziaar]

Ah good old Christian modesty. Without it, we would surely have no underpants!

lol... people were wearing clothing well before the christian religion took hold :-P

 

[pomegranate]

....Not being 'acceptable' is not a reason for something to be illegal though. Freedom to look stupid, freedom to ostracise yourself from the rest of society through peculiar dress, freedom to do what the hell you like so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's wellbeing.

 

[repiV]

....Not being 'acceptable' is not a reason for something to be illegal though. Freedom to look stupid, freedom to ostracise yourself from the rest of society through peculiar dress, freedom to do what the hell you like so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's wellbeing.

Generally I would agree wholeheartedly.
However, this is something altogether different and more alarming. There are many distinct subcultures within society with vastly different outlooks on life and styles of dress and suchlike, yes, but they all ultimately share the same ultimate mores and success goals.
All these groups are united under the common banner of sharing our society's most important values. Many Muslims do not share those values at all. They have nothing in common with us. As the Muslim population continues to increase and continues to avoid assimilating, even actively seeking to assert their own identity, so will segregation and hostility increase.
Eventually, we will end up with a critical situation we could have prevented years ago. I'm thinking civil war. You cannot take two diametrically opposite cultures with nothing in common and put them in the same place and expect harmony. We're heading for disaster, whether you want to admit it or not. We need to re-evaluate our ideas of tolerance and freedom of expression in light of this unique situation.

 

[Solaris]

Generally I would agree wholeheartedly.
However, this is something altogether different and more alarming. There are many distinct subcultures within society with vastly different outlooks on life and styles of dress and suchlike, yes, but they all ultimately share the same ultimate mores and success goals.

Untrue, just look at the political divide between say the Socialist alliance and the BNP. Societys spilt on lots of issues.

All these groups are united under the common banner of sharing our society's most important values.

Most people support our values of freedom

Many Muslims do not share those values at all.

Neither do many christians or non-Muslims

They have nothing in common with us.

Stop with the 'they and us' bullshit. There is no they, and there is no us.
I, along with most people think your racist bullshit is bullshit. Muslims also have conflicting opinions with each other, they are not a single entity

As the Muslim population continues to increase and continues to avoid assimilating, even actively seeking to assert their own identity, so will segregation and hostility increase.

Well, I will have to agree given that you have a degree in sociology and have shown so many excellant sources.

Eventually, we will end up with a critical situation we could have prevented years ago. I'm thinking civil war.

Well I won't be on your side.

You cannot take two diametrically opposite cultures with nothing in common and put them in the same place and expect harmony.

Bullshit. Everythings going fine here, only people causing problems are extremists from both sides.

We're heading for disaster, whether you want to admit it or not. We need to re-evaluate our ideas of tolerance and freedom of expression in light of this unique situation.

I agree. We shouldn't tolerate people who express such views as you do. I will email my MP to try and build a re-education center. In the meantime I will send numbers a memo, he needs work experience anyhow.

 

[repiV]

Untrue, just look at the political divide between say the Socialist alliance and the BNP. Societys spilt on lots of issues.

Only braindead morons belong to either the socialist alliance or the BNP. They do not represent a serious force within our society. Furthermore, if our nation was facing annihilation, all of them would stand together to defend it, as they ultimately identify with it in the most important way. As would goths, chavs, and most of the rest of society's misfits.
Many Muslims would not accept this obligation.

Most people support our values of freedom

Where did I say I was talking about freedom? In any case, the Mohammed cartoon riots show that obviously "most" is not "all".

Neither do many christians or non-Muslims

Oh yes they do.

Stop with the 'they and us' bullshit. There is no they, and there is no us.
I, along with most people think your racist bullshit is bullshit. Muslims also have conflicting opinions with each other, they are not a single entity

So you speak for most people now?
Put a can on your idealistic, meaningless bullshit. "There is no they, there is no us." What the **** does that even mean? Just empty rhetoric.

Well, I will have to agree given that you have a degree in sociology and have shown so many excellant sources.

It's called common sense and insight. Both of which you lack.

Well I won't be on your side.

Yes, I'm sure you'll go down in a blaze of glory wearing the colours of Osama Bin Laden's freedom fighters.

Bullshit. Everythings going fine here, only people causing problems are extremists from both sides.

No, everything is not going fine here at all. You exist in a ****ing fantasyland, so I wouldn't expect you to notice reality if it smacked you around the face with a sledgehammer.

I agree. We shouldn't tolerate people who express such views as you do. I will email my MP to try and build a re-education center. In the meantime I will send numbers a memo, he needs work experience anyhow.

You do that. I'll be answering your email anyway.

 

[jondy]

Eventually, we will end up with a critical situation we could have prevented years ago. I'm thinking civil war. You cannot take two diametrically opposite cultures with nothing in common and put them in the same place and expect harmony. We're heading for disaster, whether you want to admit it or not. We need to re-evaluate our ideas of tolerance and freedom of expression in light of this unique situation.

Civil war?

This 'them and us' dichotomy you've got going has echoes way back in history, and most all of the precedents set show that it's a pretty dark road you're heading down

 

[repiV]

Civil war?

Yes, civil war. Why is that so difficult to imagine?

This 'them and us' dichotomy you've got going has echoes way back in history, and most all of the precedents set show that it's a pretty dark road you're heading down

Not really. You tell me how putting two diametrically opposed cultures into a single space and leaving the results to nothing but fate is a sensible or even sane idea.
I don't want to go around exterminating Muslims, I just want immigration from countries linked to radical Islam banned and very tight screening based on background, allegiance and ideology for any other Muslims/Arabs who wish to live here.
I also want places of Muslim congregation across the country and Muslim leaders bugged and monitored - since we have let millions of unknown variables into the country already, we have given ourselves a problem we are otherwise powerless to control. Got a better suggestion?
I also want the preferential treatment given to Muslims in the name of "respecting their culture" to stop. Right now.
Put simply: I don't care if you're a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Pastafarian, if you share our values and want to become one of us, and can fill a gap in our skillset, you're more than welcome to come and live here.
If you don't meet those criteria, I don't want you living here. Right now we don't even check. We just let chaos reign, and constantly make concessions to Muslims in order to "maintain harmony". It's utterly stupid.

 

[CptStern]

blahblahblah Islam is teh evil ..yes yes we've all heard your xenophobic song and dance before ... you'd best be vigilant before they take over your schools, marry your daughters, rpae your pets and infiltrate society with their vile satanisticways

oh and what you want is unimportant because you are not society ..you are by no means a of measure of society, none of your hopes, dreams, wants matter in the slightest bit when it comes to determining if they're fit to emmigrate to your country or not ...either accept it or start a race war ..bitching about it does nothing

 

[repiV]

blahblahblah Islam is teh evil ..yes yes we've all heard your xenophobic song and dance before ... you'd best be vigilant before they take over your school marry your daughters and infiltrate society with their vile satanisticways

So do you actually have anything remotely useful to add?

 

[CptStern]

that's very useful ..either accept it or kill everyone who is disagreeable ..if thta isnt a solution I dont know what is

 

[theotherguy]

repriv, again you are scapegoating mulsims for no particular reason. People are different, get over it.

I will tell you what will drive the UK into the ground, and it won't be the supposed muslim influence or your idiotic "civil war", but an overly agressive and xenophobic policy which will almost surely result in nationalist facism. Once that happens, then every freedom and right will be restricted not only from muslims, but from you.

 

[delusional]

do most of the muslims speak english in england? because the only problem i have with foriegners is the ones that dont speak english. which alot of mexicans in california dont speak english which i particularly dont like. is there a group like mecha(wants to turn california into mexico), in england that are muslim?

 

[repiV]

repriv, again you are scapegoating mulsims for no particular reason. People are different, get over it.

What am I scapegoating them for?
Where is the lack of any particular reason? I've made my reasons quite clear and explicit.

I will tell you what will drive the UK into the ground, and it won't be the supposed muslim influence or your idiotic "civil war", but an overly agressive and xenophobic policy which will almost surely result in nationalist facism. Once that happens, then every freedom and right will be restricted not only from muslims, but from you.

That could happen, but it's extremely unlikely. You're in for a big wake up call.
Also, you live in Texas, not London. You don't have the full picture.

 

[repiV]

do most of the muslims speak english in england? because the only problem i have with foriegners is the ones that dont speak english. which alot of mexicans in california dont speak english which i particularly dont like. is there a group like mecha(wants to turn california into mexico), in england that are muslim?

I couldn't possibly give you a percentage of Muslims who can't speak English. It's definitely a minority though.

 

[Solaris]

I couldn't possibly give you a percentage of Muslims who can't speak English. It's definitely a minority though.

Boooooooo! Nazi!!! Booooooo! Hissssss! Nazi!!

 

[repiV]

Boooooooo! Nazi!!! Booooooo! Hissssss! Nazi!!

Moron. Read it again, and take in each word as you read it.

 

[Solaris]

The quote I quoted has little to do with your nazism.

 

[repiV]

If you actually think I'm a Nazi, you really are a genuine class A ****wit.

 

[jondy]

Yes, civil war. Why is that so difficult to imagine?

The last civil war the British people had was almost 500 years ago, and it was the precipitation of events far bigger than the cultural quibbles you're mincing over. What you're telling me is speculation - to be frank it's irresponsible fearmongering without precedent. You'll need to do better than your 'common sense' here.

Not really. You tell me how putting two diametrically opposed cultures into a single space and leaving the results to nothing but fate is a sensible or even sane idea.

The 'diametrical opposition' you describe, which is the centre of your argument, doesn't exist. But the argument itself has existed thousands of times

 

[15357]

The quote I quoted has little to do with your nazism.

I thought nazism was anti-semetism....

 

[Absinthe]

I thought nazism was anti-semetism....

No... If Nazism was merely anti-semitism, we'd just call it thus.

 

[15357]

I meant mostly anti-semittism. Of course, there is the view of 'Aryans' or christian whites as the superior race, but then if it was just that, it would just be like stormfront.

 

[Nemesis6]

This can only be a good thing. For one sole reason: The UK police SUCK at going after Islamists. In fact, they shy away from it and prefer to go after anti-Jihad demonstrators so this can only be a good thing.

 

[repiV]

The last civil war the British people had was almost 500 years ago, and it was the precipitation of events far bigger than the cultural quibbles you're mincing over. What you're telling me is speculation - to be frank it's irresponsible fearmongering without precedent. You'll need to do better than your 'common sense' here.

This is a situation without precedent. There is no comparison that can be made.
Of course it's speculation, how can anyone possibly prove their predictions about the future?
Think of it this way. How many people in this country approve of political correctness. 1, 2% at the most? Yet look how utterly ingrained into almost every facet of our society it is.
If the political correctness lobby can do that much damage with so few numbers, Islamists can do the same. And there is a crucial difference here - the number of Muslims in this country is growing exponentially.
You still haven't told me how it is sensible or sane to place two diametrically opposed cultures in one place and just stand back and watch.

The 'diametrical opposition' you describe, which is the centre of your argument, doesn't exist. But the argument itself has existed thousands of times

Really? Care to explain how it "doesn't exist"?
Islamic ideology flies in the face of everything we stand for. Freedom of speech. Equal opportunities. Democracy. Freedom of religion. It's rather amusing when people like Solaris accuse me of being a Nazi, when the reason I despise Islam is precisely because it is a fascist and totalitarian ideology that in some cases is every bit as dangerous and oppressive as Nazism.
It perplexes me why supposed "liberals" are always the first to stand up and defend Islam, when it opposes everything they are supposed to stand for.
I used to consider myself a liberal, but with such company it's increasingly difficult to do.

 

[Solaris]

This is a situation without precedent. There is no comparison that can be made.

Mass immigration is not a new phenomonom.

Think of it this way. How many people in this country approve of political correctness.

As in not saying words like 'paki' and '******'? Most people approove of political correctness, just a few people take it too far and you get your 'political correctness gone mad' bullshit headlines.

If the political correctness lobby can do that much damage with so few numbers, Islamists can do the same. And there is a crucial difference here - the number of Muslims in this country is growing exponentially.
You still haven't told me how it is sensible or sane to place two diametrically opposed cultures in one place and just stand back and watch.

it is very sensible

 

[repiV]

They do have something in common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
We're all human and have the same needs. And the path we choose to meet these needs is what defines us I suppose as a culture, but neverless we all have the same needs to furfil.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs or no, how often do you see Muslims walking side by side with other people in society?

Understanding and cooperation shall be a corner stone to a peaceful future... they need to start now. For generations the boot of the west has trampled the non-west... it needs to stop, now.

Maybe it has, but that's not because the West is any worse, it's simply because the West is stronger - in large part due to the superiority of our philosophies, societies and ideas. If the boot were on the other foot, you better believe it would be the East trampling the West.
Although I would like you to explain how exactly the West systematically tramples over Middle Eastern countries, because I see no evidence of that. Africa, yes we have a dark history there. But we are not really talking about Africa.
Saudi Arabia as a superpower would be a nightmare for the entire world. A nightmare far worse than the "imperialistic USA" you no doubt blame for most of the world's ills.
Of course, this is not an excuse for us to surrender and let them trample on us.
Again you appear to assume that immigration is a right and not a privilege. I don't have the right to go and live in any other non-EU country, and there is no reason I should have. I will earn that privilege, and I will use it. But it is not handed to me.