New protest protocol proposed.

[repiV]

Mass immigration is not a new phenomonom.

Mass immigration of Muslims to European countries is.

As in not saying words like 'paki' and '******'? Most people approove of political correctness, just a few people take it too far and you get your 'political correctness gone mad' bullshit headlines.

I was referring to the aspect of it that has been "taken too far".

it is very sensible

What on earth is sensible about it?

 

[Solaris]

-
Although I would like you to explain how exactly the West systematically tramples over Middle Eastern countries, because I see no evidence of that.

Ummm.....

Iraq war, afganistan Iran???

Is your head in the sand?

 

[repiV]

-
Although I would like you to explain how exactly the West systematically tramples over Middle Eastern countries, because I see no evidence of that.

Ummm.....

Iraq war, afganistan Iran???

Is your head in the sand?

I said "systematically". You cited two recent wars (Gulf War and the current Iraq conflict), a terrorist hunt in Afghanistan and...Iran?
Yes, the Iraq war is a piece of shit. However, a couple of incidents does not a history make. Nor is it by any means a unified effort on the part of "the West".
Care to explain how we are trampling on Afghanistan, by ridding the country of the oppressive Taleban and simultaneously protecting our own safety? Care to explain how we are trampling over Iran?

 

[repiV]

This can only be a good thing. For one sole reason: The UK police SUCK at going after Islamists. In fact, they shy away from it and prefer to go after anti-Jihad demonstrators so this can only be a good thing.

Freedom includes the freedom to burn the flag, however reprehensible it may be to do so.

 

[repiV]

I see it every day on campus.

There tends to be more integration among student populations. Either way, unless I know where you live, it doesn't mean much.

However, a little personal experience that I find disturbing and you may find interesting. At college I had a good friend, Ali. He was born in Iraq but moved here when he was five. He was like, 200% English. He acted way more English than I ever have. And he was just an all around great guy.
Since then he went to Jordan to do a CCNA. He lived in Jordan for a year or so and visited Iraq frequently. I didn't speak to him much during this time, but he hated it in Jordan. Complete lawlessness, he said.
He's now going to university in Bradford (known for its Muslim population). I spoke to him recently, and he's changed. He's changed so, so much. He's not the person I used to know. Apart from the noticeable fact that he is always asserting his Iraqi and Muslim identity, he's become hate-filled and twisted. We were catching up, and I told him I'm working for the government. He's like, which government? I'm thinking...uh...what the hell government do you think? He didn't seem too pleased that I was working for the evil British government.
Something's going on. There is a force within Islam that changes normal, decent people into twisted bastards. That's what I'm afraid of.

At different stages of history each had the upper hand...



While we still have the 'boot', it's time we destroyed it. Such things wouldnt be necessary in a peaceful future.



Africa is part of the equation to an extent... but let's see.
#1) Trojan Wars
#2) Persian Wars
#3) Roman conquest
#4) Crusades
#5) European colonialism

And so forth.



I don't blame America for the worlds problems... it's shared equally and the yoke rests at equilibrium on the shoulders of both west and non-west.



Fear is a nature reaction to that which is not understood.



Once the foundations are set... the political borders of a divided world can disappear as well.

You're basically just speaking in idealistic rhetoric. You see the world as you would like it to be and not as it is.
Complete freedom of movement would be disastrous. One world government would never work, and would also be an open invitation to totalitarianism.

 

[repiV]

I reside within the United States.



I'm sorry about your friend... but, the force that is working on both sides is called.... grudge and resentment.



Western or Nonwestern, we're the same. We're still humans. The same flesh and blood, and we hold the same needs. It's time we lay aside our differences* and work together to achieve our mutual needs.

*Lay them aside, but not forget or forsake them.

Your concerns about peace and unity are understandable. Fearing that which not understood. My mind struggles to navigate concept... trying to pierce the veils of skeptism and strife hung by our ancestors... but I have faith in such. I know this is right. I feel it burning in my heart.
... the human is a powerful creature and has endured the testing flame for millenia, so shall we march forth towards a peaceful future. Is such a thought so frightening? What is the opportunity cost of postponing peace? The lives of our children perhaps...
Is it such a difficult concept, to understand one and other... to cooperate? Is it? :upstare:

I'm off to play a game of CoH, but I'll reply after that.

 

[JNightshade]

There tends to be more integration among student populations. Either way, unless I know where you live, it doesn't mean much.

However, a little personal experience that I find disturbing and you may find interesting. At college I had a good friend, Ali. He was born in Iraq but moved here when he was five. He was like, 200% English. He acted way more English than I ever have. And he was just an all around great guy.
Since then he went to Jordan to do a CCNA. He lived in Jordan for a year or so and visited Iraq frequently. I didn't speak to him much during this time, but he hated it in Jordan. Complete lawlessness, he said.
He's now going to university in Bradford (known for its Muslim population). I spoke to him recently, and he's changed. He's changed so, so much. He's not the person I used to know. Apart from the noticeable fact that he is always asserting his Iraqi and Muslim identity, he's become hate-filled and twisted. We were catching up, and I told him I'm working for the government. He's like, which government? I'm thinking...uh...what the hell government do you think? He didn't seem too pleased that I was working for the evil British government.
Something's going on. There is a force within Islam that changes normal, decent people into twisted bastards. That's what I'm afraid of.

I've known people that have moved to the South and come back as twisted bastards. Does that mean there's a "force" in the South that's magically turning people bad? I mean, come on.

 

[delusional]

I've known people that have moved to the South and come back as twisted bastards. Does that mean there's a "force" in the South that's magically turning people bad? I mean, come on.

yes, there is an evil force in the south... come on everyone knows that.

 

[theotherguy]

I have many muslim friends. some of them are jerks, most of them aren't. I have many white friends, some of them are jerks, most of them aren't. I have a few african american friends, some of them are jerks, most of them arent. I have many asian friends, some of them are jerks, most of them aren't.

See a pattern? It's someone's personality that makes them who they are, and if idealism makes them jerks then most likely they were jerks to begin with.

the "superiority" of the white race and western values that you are touting simply doesn't exist. The west was just damn lucky. We had better livestock, more access to navigable waters, better climate and better crops. Geography made the west successful, not any kind of ideology or anything of the sort.

I've said it before, but throughout history the arab world has been one of the most organized, civilized states of the world. It is only recentley that they have begun to decay.

Why is this? It's not because of ideology, but economics. They don't produce any manufactured goods, because they lack the raw materials and the political clout. They are dependant on one good: oil. Oil is controlled by corrupt dictators, and those dictators take all of the funds and don't give them to the people. The people don't have any money to get education, the people turn to religion. The people are unhappy, so they look for religious justification for their unhappiness, they become radicals.

The west exploits the middle east economically and politically, the west plants a new state, israel, on top of one of their colonial posessions, palestine, the people become angry at the west. The USA invades Iraq twice, bombs afghanistan, then occupies it. The people become even more angry at the west. Conversly, the west becomes angry at the middle east ("why won't they just take our freedom and accept it? The savages") Many muslims live in England. The English resent the muslim minority because they don't understand the interplay of politics in the middle east. The English make the muslims scapegoats and call them inferior.

There you go...that is the cycle that is repeated in history over and over. I hope that someday, after all of this is over, you look at yourself as you are now and are ashamed.

 

[15357]

Mostly, I agree with theotherguy.

*applaudes*

 

[repiV]

I reside within the United States.



I'm sorry about your friend... but, the force that is working on both sides is called.... grudge and resentment.

What sides? I already told you, he was as English as they come. This "other side" has been manufactured in his head somehow, in the past year and a half, by someone or something, somewhere.
It shows that no matter how well integrated Muslims are, they can still be turned against us very quickly. Their loyalties are pliable.

Western or Nonwestern, we're the same. We're still humans. The same flesh and blood, and we hold the same needs. It's time we lay aside our differences* and work together to achieve our mutual needs.

*Lay them aside, but not forget or forsake them.

Umm, why?
We are meeting our needs with a great deal of success. Why would we sacrifice our own success just for some nonsense fairytale idea of "unity of the human race"?
The human race is not united, it never has been and probably never will be.
Thanks for the offer, but I'd prefer not to "work together to meet our common needs" with a bunch of barbarians.

Your concerns about peace and unity are understandable. Fearing that which not understood. My mind struggles to navigate concept... trying to pierce the veils of skeptism and strife hung by our ancestors... but I have faith in such. I know this is right. I feel it burning in my heart.
... the human is a powerful creature and has endured the testing flame for millenia, so shall we march forth towards a peaceful future. Is such a thought so frightening? What is the opportunity cost of postponing peace? The lives of our children perhaps...
Is it such a difficult concept, to understand one and other... to cooperate? Is it? :upstare:

Yes it is. Deal with it.

 

[repiV]

I have many muslim friends. some of them are jerks, most of them aren't. I have many white friends, some of them are jerks, most of them aren't. I have a few african american friends, some of them are jerks, most of them arent. I have many asian friends, some of them are jerks, most of them aren't.

See a pattern? It's someone's personality that makes them who they are, and if idealism makes them jerks then most likely they were jerks to begin with.

Of course, none of us are shaped by our upbringing or culture. We are all completely independent of the indoctrinations of our youth.

the "superiority" of the white race and western values that you are touting simply doesn't exist. The west was just damn lucky. We had better livestock, more access to navigable waters, better climate and better crops. Geography made the west successful, not any kind of ideology or anything of the sort.

The USA took less than two hundred years to become one of the most important, revered and powerful nations on the planet. Was that "luck"? No, it was not. It was the result of a successful formula for economic and cultural success.
It's all geography, you say?
Explain how South Africa is far more successful and developed than any other nation in that continent.
Explain how Israel, despite only having existed for about 60 years, is by far the most developed and civilised nation in the Middle East.
Explain how Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and South Korea are the most developed and prosperous nations in Asia, up there with Western nations.
Hint: the driving force behind the success of these places is the Western influence upon them.
Explain how China is climbing out of its pit of destitude to become the most powerful nation on the planet as a direct result of their adoption of Western philosophies.

By the same token, South America and Eastern Europe are poor primarily because of the inferiority of their systems and institutions. Mexico might well be rich, but for the catastrophic level of corruption there.

Nice fantasy, but I'm afraid you're going to have to find some other justification for your personal shame.

I've said it before, but throughout history the arab world has been one of the most organized, civilized states of the world. It is only recentley that they have begun to decay.

Winston Churchill appears to disagree with you.

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities — but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Furthermore, how can you possibly explain away the barbary, ignorance and primitive nature of Islamic culture with "economics"?
India, Thailand, Poland, Brazil amongst many others are poor countries, but they aren't barbaric, ignorant or primitive. Buddhism is arguably by far the world's most enlightened theology, and where did that come from? The two are in no way connected. Islam just sucks. Stop denying it.

Why is this? It's not because of ideology, but economics. They don't produce any manufactured goods, because they lack the raw materials and the political clout. They are dependant on one good: oil. Oil is controlled by corrupt dictators, and those dictators take all of the funds and don't give them to the people. The people don't have any money to get education, the people turn to religion. The people are unhappy, so they look for religious justification for their unhappiness, they become radicals.

Economics is a part of ideology, or hadn't you realised that?
Why do you think the Middle East is ruled by corrupt dictators? Is that "luck" too? No, it's because they have no and have never had any conception of democracy, a Western creation. Their culture is based on subjugation and subordination.
Again, the superiority of our philosophies and ideas is responsible for our success.

The west exploits the middle east economically and politically, the west plants a new state, israel, on top of one of their colonial posessions, palestine, the people become angry at the west. The USA invades Iraq twice, bombs afghanistan, then occupies it. The people become even more angry at the west. Conversly, the west becomes angry at the middle east ("why won't they just take our freedom and accept it? The savages") Many muslims live in England. The English resent the muslim minority because they don't understand the interplay of politics in the middle east. The English make the muslims scapegoats and call them inferior.

Ah, I get it. The West is responsible for everything wrong with the Middle East and they're just poor misunderstood angels. Gimme a break.
Oh no, the poor Afghans being freed from the tyrannical grip of the Taleban! Please Afghanistan, may we come and hunt the terrorist cells that are causing damage in our own countries?
Sheesh.

There you go...that is the cycle that is repeated in history over and over. I hope that someday, after all of this is over, you look at yourself as you are now and are ashamed.

Spare me your misguided self-righteousness.

 

[jverne]

look it more broadly repi!

Europe had in history a good strategic location with abundance of resources. lots of people migrated there and competition began to speed up development. eventually two or more strong factions who couldn't prevail gave birth to democracy and so forth...

geography lead the west to become that what it is today. in other countries there was not enough mixing and interactions...

Every religion is crap. we managed to get rid of it to an extent. now, we don't allow reformists to get into power in strategically important countries.

those countries you mentioned became advanced because of us yes, because we introduced the concept of competition.

sadly...only competition leads to development.

 

[15357]

What does this have to do with protesting, by the way?

 

[Solaris]

See people, this is the kind of language closet racist use. Like the BNP and UKIP or other racist groups they adopt a 'them and us' mentality.

It's a very silly thing to say because Muslims are more often than not similar to each other by faith only and even then they all have their own different interpretations of their religion. These 'Muslims' who you are so afraid of are very diverse with members of Islam holding their own very different political ideologies and beliefs. I have no doubt many Muslims want Islamic law and the abolishment of Democracy. But you know what, so do many non-Muslims.

Your argument is compromised of statements with no backing in logic or statistics, par example:

It shows that no matter how well integrated Muslims are, they can still be turned against us very quickly. Their loyalties are pliable.

I agree with the above statement completely, but I would also agree with it if you changed Muslims to Christians or Jews. Everyone can be brainwashed or have their opinions changed, it is not a phenomenon that only applies to Muslims. Why a year and a bit ago I thought 911 was a government conspiracy as was Global warming. I now retract these views, just as a Muslim might go from drinking cups of tea and singing 'God save the Queen' to becoming an overt enemy of the British state.

You know what, the main peace of evidence that I have in my head when people like Repriv make comments such as 'Them Muslims...' and other blatantly racist stuff is that I meet Muslims on a daily basis. I have properly had conversations with over a Hundred different Muslims I encounter in day to day life. All these people are decent people, so when you or other people say 'they all...' 'Muslims hate freedom' 'not compatible with out society' I know it's Bullshit.

It's a shame that your prejudices get in the way of you getting to know a member of an ethnic group.

 

[15357]

Well, I agree completely with you on that, Solaris, but

You know what, the main peace of evidence that I have in my head when people like Repriv make comments such as 'Them Muslims...' and other blatantly racist stuff

Whats so wrong and racist with differentiating (?) other ethnic groups with words such as 'them'? Ok, 'The' would be a more politically correct word to use, but...

Oh wait, I kinda get it now... I imagined the tone one would have to use to use the word 'them' to identify a ethnic group, and it does sound a bit racist.


But that doesn't really matter. Words.

It's all geography, you say?
Explain how South Africa is far more successful and developed than any other nation in that continent.
Explain how Israel, despite only having existed for about 60 years, is by far the most developed and civilised nation in the Middle East.
Explain how Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore and South Korea are the most developed and prosperous nations in Asia, up there with Western nations.
Hint: the driving force behind the success of these places is the Western influence upon them.
Explain how China is climbing out of its pit of destitude to become the most powerful nation on the planet as a direct result of their adoption of Western philosophies.

I can tell you, on Hong Kong, Japan, and the Republic of Korea, even though there were NO resources (well, Korea, anyway) we/they achieved prosperity with the industrialness of their citizens. ALSO, China became a shithole, due to the uh, Cultural Revolution and other rather misguided communistic ideals that came from the west.

On Israel, perhaps due to the massive amounts of US/European support, as well as the education levels of most of their citizens, which were superior to those of surrounding nations.

On China climbing out, China already fell by the west, so theres no real argument there.

South Africa was inhabited by Europeans, and therfore European companies invested in the country, like the Cape Apple and diamond mining industries.



In conclusion of my post, I'd like to say: "YUO WESTERNERS ARE ALL TEH BARBARIC AND UNCIVILIZED!"

 

[repiV]

See people, this is the kind of language closet racist use. Like the BNP and UKIP or other racist groups they adopt a 'them and us' mentality.

It's a very silly thing to say because Muslims are more often than not similar to each other by faith only and even then they all have their own different interpretations of their religion. These 'Muslims' who you are so afraid of are very diverse with members of Islam holding their own very different political ideologies and beliefs. I have no doubt many Muslims want Islamic law and the abolishment of Democracy. But you know what, so do many non-Muslims.

Your argument is compromised of statements with no backing in logic or statistics, par example:

It shows that no matter how well integrated Muslims are, they can still be turned against us very quickly. Their loyalties are pliable.

I agree with the above statement completely, but I would also agree with it if you changed Muslims to Christians or Jews. Everyone can be brainwashed or have their opinions changed, it is not a phenomenon that only applies to Muslims. Why a year and a bit ago I thought 911 was a government conspiracy as was Global warming. I now retract these views, just as a Muslim might go from drinking cups of tea and singing 'God save the Queen' to becoming an overt enemy of the British state.

You know what, the main peace of evidence that I have in my head when people like Repriv make comments such as 'Them Muslims...' and other blatantly racist stuff is that I meet Muslims on a daily basis. I have properly had conversations with over a Hundred different Muslims I encounter in day to day life. All these people are decent people, so when you or other people say 'they all...' 'Muslims hate freedom' 'not compatible with out society' I know it's Bullshit.

It's a shame that your prejudices get in the way of you getting to know a member of an ethnic group.

First of all, in case you haven't understood this critical point yet, I am not talking about individual Muslims. Whether individual Muslims are good people or not is utterly irrelevant. It is the all-encompassing Islamic groupthink that is the issue here.
Secondly, Muslims are NOT an ethnic group.
How exactly would "many non-Muslims" want Islamic law?

I don't believe you ever answered me when I asked if you had actually read the Qu'ran, either. Or explained why it is "very sensible" to put two diametrically opposed cultures in one place and leave the results to fate.
Furthermore, by saying that is sensible, you have indirectly admitted that Islam and Western culture are incompatible.

Regarding my friend, the point is his loyalty could be swung so easily. This is the same guy who was going to join the British Army!

 

[repiV]

Well, I agree completely with you on that, Solaris, but



Whats so wrong and racist with differentiating (?) other ethnic groups with words such as 'them'? Ok, 'The' would be a more politically correct word to use, but...

Oh wait, I kinda get it now... I imagined the tone one would have to use to use the word 'them' to identify a ethnic group, and it does sound a bit racist.


But that doesn't really matter. Words.

Muslims aren't an ethnic group...
Accusing someone of being racist for disliking a religion (although Islam is much more than a religion, it is an overbearing political, economic and religious system that usually leads to totalitarianism that lays in a cesspool of its own ignorance) is laughable.
I'd suggest that Solaris travels to the Middle East and sees for himself how tolerant they are of our culture. Not very.

I can tell you, on Hong Kong, Japan, and the Republic of Korea, even though there were NO resources (well, Korea, anyway) we/they achieved prosperity with the industrialness of their citizens. ALSO, China became a shithole, due to the uh, Cultural Revolution and other rather misguided communistic ideals that came from the west.

Of course, China has been a world power throughout history. Don't get me wrong, I love China (current political system aside), but again their rise back to the forefront of the world stage is due to capitalism.
Communism may be a Western philosophy, but it only really took off in the East.

On Israel, perhaps due to the massive amounts of US/European support, as well as the education levels of most of their citizens, which were superior to those of surrounding nations.

Huge amounts of money is poured into certain Middle Eastern countries by the West due to their oil, but they aren't very good at utilising those funds to improve the lives of the citizens of that country.
EFL teachers get paid more in Saudi than anywhere else in the world. There is a lot of money in that country.
As for education levels and Islam: Jewish and Muslim Nobel prize winners

The above kinda speaks for itself.

On China climbing out, China already fell by the west, so theres no real argument there.

South Africa was inhabited by Europeans, and therfore European companies invested in the country, like the Cape Apple and diamond mining industries.

Yet it remains a worthwhile investment to this day.

In conclusion of my post, I'd like to say: "YUO WESTERNERS ARE ALL TEH BARBARIC AND UNCIVILIZED!"

 

[Solaris]

Well, I agree completely with you on that, Solaris, but



Whats so wrong and racist with differentiating (?) other ethnic groups with words such as 'them'? Ok, 'The' would be a more politically correct word to use, but...

Oh wait, I kinda get it now... I imagined the tone one would have to use to use the word 'them' to identify a ethnic group, and it does sound a bit racist.

It's sort of the tone, but it's the 'them and us' mentality that is the problem.
What I am arguing is there is no 'them' and there is no 'us'. Britian is so diverse it is incorrect to say 'we act like this' 'while they act like that'. Becuase British people act very differently from each other, we are all different. Just like Muslims are all very different with different behaviours, trying to generalise such a large a diverse group is flawed.

I'll give you some examples in the rest of my post.

First of all, in case you haven't understood this critical point yet, I am not talking about individual Muslims. Whether individual Muslims are good people or not is utterly irrelevant. It is the all-encompassing Islamic groupthink that is the issue here.

Prime example. There is no Islamic groupthink, muslims hold very different views from each other, as one would expect from such a large and diverse group.

I don't believe you ever answered me when I asked if you had actually read the Qu'ran, either.

I have not read it. However, I assume if it told Muslims to kill non-believers and Muslims thought they should, I don't think the trip to the Mosque would have gone as well as it did for me.

Or explained why it is "very sensible" to put two diametrically opposed cultures in one place and leave the results to fate.

It allows us to live richer lives by living with different cultures and allows us to learn more about ourselves.

I'd suggest that Solaris travels to the Middle East and sees for himself how tolerant they are of our culture. Not very.

Another example of his psyche, he belives that the views of Middle East rulers= the views of you average Muslim.

I doubt you'd find much support for the Iranian Government, the Taliban or even the people who rule saudia arabia amongst British Muslims.

As for education levels and Islam

It doesn't get much more racist than that folks.

 

[Kangy]

I agree with this I guess. Covering of faces is frankly suspicious, especially when some recent protests have preached "death to those who stand in the way of Islam" etc. As for flag burning... Eh. On one hand, it's dangerous and against the concept of a peaceful protest. On the other, I don't give two shits about flags.

 

[Kangy]

It doesn't get much more racist than that folks.

What? It's a valid point. Jewish people tend to live in first world nations such as Israel or the US. On the other hand, I don't think there's a single first world Islamic state. Wealth gives a nation a better ability to educate its people. And with education comes better minds who are going to win stuff like Nobel Prizes.

So, stop pointing the "omg racist" finger and start thinking for yourself, Solaris.

 

[repiV]

It's sort of the tone, but it's the 'them and us' mentality that is the problem.
What I am arguing is there is no 'them' and there is no 'us'. Britian is so diverse it is incorrect to say 'we act like this' 'while they act like that'. Becuase British people act very differently from each other, we are all different. Just like Muslims are all very different with different behaviours, trying to generalise such a large a diverse group is flawed.

Meaningless rhetoric.

I'll give you some examples in the rest of my post.


Prime example. There is no Islamic groupthink, muslims hold very different views from each other, as one would expect from such a large and diverse group.

Americans hold very different views from each other, but I'm pretty sure I won't find you denying the effects of the American groupthink.

I have not read it. However, I assume if it told Muslims to kill non-believers and Muslims thought they should, I don't think the trip to the Mosque would have gone as well as it did for me.

If you haven't read it, you have no place to talk about what Islam is or is not about.

It allows us to live richer lives by living with different cultures and allows us to learn more about ourselves.

My life has not been enriched by living around Muslims.

Another example of his psyche, he belives that the views of Middle East rulers= the views of you average Muslim.

Where did I say anything about rulers?

I doubt you'd find much support for the Iranian Government, the Taliban or even the people who rule saudia arabia amongst British Muslims.

More than you would expect.

It doesn't get much more racist than that folks.

So telling the truth is racist now?

 

[Solaris]

If you haven't read it, you have no place to talk about what Islam is or is not about.

I've met Muslims alot, what your telling me about Islam does not hold.

My life has not been enriched by living around Muslims.

I wonder why. If I were a Muslim I wouldn't want to associate with you, hell I wouldn't anyway.

Where did I say anything about rulers?

The rulers decide the policy which dictates how welcome we would be there.

So telling the truth is racist now?

You were implying that Muslims were less intelligent than other people, as if they are sub-human. If you go back a thousand years the most powerful countries at the time were Muslim countries, these were the most advanced as well.

 

[repiV]

I've met Muslims alot, what your telling me about Islam does not hold.

So you've "met Muslims alot". So what? Does that give you any real perspective on what Islam actually is, what it stands for, and the effects it has on the world?
None whatsoever.

I wonder why. If I were a Muslim I wouldn't want to associate with you, hell I wouldn't anyway.

What a meaningless tirade. Nice dodge.

The rulers decide the policy which dictates how welcome we would be there.

Really? So, by your logic, Muslims are even more welcome than white people in Britain. Since the government not only guarantees they have equal rights and opportunities, but also privileges and allowances that we do not.

You were implying that Muslims were less intelligent than other people, as if they are sub-human. If you go back a thousand years the most powerful countries at the time were Muslim countries, these were the most advanced as well.

They are less intelligent than Westerners. That is blindingly obvious. IQ and the wealth of nations
It isn't an implication, it's a fact.

 

[Solaris]

-but also privileges and allowances that we do not.
Evidence? For example?

-They are less intelligent than Westerners.
Perphaps less educated, but not less intelligent.

 

[repiV]

-but also privileges and allowances that we do not.
Evidence? For example?

For example, being able to walk into a bank with their face covered.
Successfully sueing schools for forcing them to wear school uniform and not their Islamic dress.
Getting special school uniforms that conform to Islam.
Rampant self-censorship of media that may offend Muslims (cancelling the Mozart opera, not publishing the Mohammed cartoons to cite recent examples).
Being able to leave class to pray five times a day.
Getting away with not carrying passengers with alcohol or guide dogs on them.

And that's just off the top of my head...

-They are less intelligent than Westerners.
Perphaps less educated, but not less intelligent.

I suggest you actually read IQ and the Wealth of Nations. Dismissing strikingly obvious evidence just because it doesn't fit your view of the world isn't cool.

 

[jverne]

I suggest you actually read IQ and the Wealth of Nations. Dismissing strikingly obvious evidence just because it doesn't fit your view of the world isn't cool.

You are making a big mistake by comparing IQ and intelligence. IQ tests are so biased.

Westeners are better in them because they are taught their whole lives in school on similar logic.

Get a muslim who lives in a well of family and has the same amount of school behind as you. he'll probably score equally.

 

[Solaris]

For example, being able to walk into a bank with their face covered.
Successfully sueing schools for forcing them to wear school uniform and not their Islamic dress.

You can wear Islamic dress if you so wish. Or dress of another, different religion.

Getting special school uniforms that conform to Islam.

That makes sense, now the Muslim children can wear Muslim clothes and wear school uniform at the sametime, this does not mean that other children have to wear Muslim uniform.

Rampant self-censorship of media that may offend Muslims (cancelling the Mozart opera, not publishing the Mohammed cartoons to cite recent examples).

Now about thoose cartoons thats pretty silly to say that. OMG I did not see a headline yesterday that said '**** WHITEPEOPLE', you know why that wasn't a headline, becuase it's offensive. The newspapers have some decency and do not wish to offend people by printing such racist trash.

Being able to leave class to pray five times a day.

If they are not aloud to do that they cannot attend educational facilities. They have a right to an education.

Getting away with not carrying passengers with alcohol or guide dogs on them.

Tell me, who got away with refusing to carry a guide dog. Ie. Was not punsihed for it?

And that's just off the top of my head...

Your arse more like.

I suggest you actually read IQ and the Wealth of Nations. Dismissing strikingly obvious evidence just because it doesn't fit your view of the world isn't cool.

How could you expect someone to score well on an IQ test if they have had shit schools? Its not becuase they are Muslim, it's becuase they have crap educational facilities.

 

[gick]

EDIT: Wrong thread!

 

[repiV]

True, but Islam is a key factor in Middle Eastern and Northern Africa culture. MENA culture would not be what it is, without Islam...

So, what does that have to do with race? Am I not allowed to hate a culture now?
And noone is exactly lining up to immigrate to the Middle East or North Africa now, are they? I wonder why.

Alot more tolerant than the other Abrahamic systems of spiritual belief.
Look at the Sufism branch within Islam... alot of their practices and beliefs violate the tenants of Islam, look at the North African muslims, they've merged alot of their ancient traditions with their observation of Islam... Islam is very tolerant my friend. :bounce:

So you cite an obscure sect and "the North African Muslims" and claim this is proof that Islam is not only tolerant, but "very tolerant"?
Jeeeeesus Christ...

 

[repiV]

You can wear Islamic dress if you so wish. Or dress of another, different religion.


That makes sense, now the Muslim children can wear Muslim clothes and wear school uniform at the sametime, this does not mean that other children have to wear Muslim uniform.

So you are not at all bothered by the fact that school uniform has been a tradition in our country for many centuries, one that we all have to adhere to, and that we are willing to excuse people from following our ways and actually nullify the very point of the school uniform (unity) in the process, just because "it's their culture"?
Why don't you go into school wearing robes and say it's because you're a Jedi?

Now about thoose cartoons thats pretty silly to say that. OMG I did not see a headline yesterday that said '**** WHITEPEOPLE', you know why that wasn't a headline, becuase it's offensive. The newspapers have some decency and do not wish to offend people by printing such racist trash.

The cartoons were not "racist trash". Furthermore, they did not print them because they had no desire to offend people, as you ridiculously and baselessly claim. They weren't printed because they were afraid of the repercussions.

If they are not aloud to do that they cannot attend educational facilities. They have a right to an education.

No, they can attend educational facilities (and are required to by law). They can just shitcan the ****ing clothing while they do so. Like everybody else has to.

Tell me, who got away with refusing to carry a guide dog. Ie. Was not punsihed for it?

I can't be bothered to trawl Google to satisfy your curiosity. In any case, I bet you think none of them should be punished for it, don't you?

Your arse more like.

How witty.

How could you expect someone to score well on an IQ test if they have had shit schools? Its not becuase they are Muslim, it's becuase they have crap educational facilities.

Their crap educational facilities are in large part due to Islam, brainiac.
Likewise, as studies have shown, there is a strong negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence. You do the math.
China has the same average IQ as this country does, and the majority of that country is atrociously poor. Their schools aren't that great either. Care to explain that one?

 

[Core407]

Can someone explain to me what protesting proves? These people should spend their time on something more constructive. Protesting just gives off this image of a kid trying to get his mothers attention.

 

[Solaris]

Can someone explain to me what protesting proves? These people should spend their time on something more constructive. Protesting just gives off this image of a kid trying to get his mothers attention.

It gave black people the vote and freed india to name a few.

 

[Core407]

It gave black people the vote and freed india to name a few.

Isn't that a little different though? I doubt they could have lobbied politicans to join with them.

 

[CptStern]

Can someone explain to me what protesting proves?

having the right to disagree with your government is the cornerstone of democracy

These people should spend their time on something more constructive.

it can be argued that protest sometimes has little effect because of people like you ...taking the buildup to the invasion of iraq as an example: americans are either apathetic or stubbornly patriotic which allowed the US to pretty mcuh waltz into Iraq with little to no evidence to back them up. The war wouldnt have happened without public support

Protesting just gives off this image of a kid trying to get his mothers attention.

tell that to martin luther king, rosa parks, mahatma gandhi, and this guy

 

[15357]

Can someone explain to me what protesting proves? These people should spend their time on something more constructive. Protesting just gives off this image of a kid trying to get his mothers attention.

Yay! Some sane people around here!

(I joined NewRight Korea, and this is one of the videos we've published, but not made.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKJyR_JFOKs

Translations of what they say/subtitle:
(voices are in "")

0:00 - Educational Film for DC retards, Combat Police edition
0:08 - Made by Bong Na In
0:17 - "Attention Combat Police! Your friends are taking the hit! If they get violent, retaliate! Don't just stand there, MOVE!"
0:27 - Combat Police, their lives....
0:31 - Here they be, your brothers.
0:35 - We do our duty, to defend our country.
0:39 - For an better understanding of the Combat Police, I make this video.
0:44 - And so that we won't be beaten again, I make this for the retards.
0:53 - "MOVE MOVE MOVE!"
1:05 - Protesters, throwing molotovs like they want to kill...
1:13 - One mistake and you could get killed here.
1:20 - "Throw! Throw!"
1:35 - There are normal citizens out there, do they (the protesters) think at all?
1:52 - Believe it when I say that the stones fall like rain.
2:05 - Sometimes we fail the mission and get caught in dangerous situations...
2:13 - (Lynching)
2:26 - Protesting by the HID.
2:47 - Even though they're tough, we have strength in numbers.
2:55 - Inevitably, we are ordered to put down the protest.
3:04 - Also, casulties are inevitable.
3:30 - The violent are arrested...
3:45 - Now, the police have been chased to the roofs of buses.
3:53 - The order falls again to put down the protest.
4:25 - Violent Protesting continues....
4:34 - And...
4:37 - And this one photo becomes propaganda for so-called 'police brutality'
4:46 - Standing there for long hours makes them tired.
5:05 - After this, the Combat Police have to get out again, to guard our country.
5:23 - Armed protesters are met with guns in the west... but...
5:28 - The combat police are always wary of 'brutality'
5:34 - You want to put someone's eyes out? Sharpened splintered bamboo?
5:42 - Peaceful protesting, you say?
5:46 - What's that in your hands?
5:56 - Tired and beaten officers can snap...
6:04 - Do not be so biased, we were conscripted.
6:24 - "3rd PLATOON MOVE" "You've been surrounded!" "Break out of there!" (Or get massacred)
6:28 - "MOOOVE!"
6:37 - We are soldiers, us Combat Police, defending our country.
6:53 - I have the hope to change, at least a little bit, the way people view the Combat Police, with this video.
8:10 - -_-;;

 

[CptStern]

***cough***brainwashed***cough***

 

[Sam]

I disagree with making allowances only for one group of people but not for all. Covering your face is covering your face no matter of beliefs or cultures.

Police should just be given a load of tranquiliser guns, and pop anyone being violent.

Simple views are more easy to comprehend.

 

[CptStern]

what about the police? should protestors be given tranquilizers guns whenever police get needlessly violent? and if you say it doesnt happen, you've never been to a protest

 

[jverne]

christ...numbers, you country still lives in medieval times! it was like watching braveheart or something...

your police seem incompetent! what happened to water guns and tear gas?

it's like the police wanted to get beaten up. something is seriously wrong with your country!