Nice work Sgt

[Bodacious]

People in Iraq most probably see them as freedom fighters. How would you react if your country was invaded?

Go rent Red Dawn with Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen. I would do something along the lines of that.

 

[Bodacious]

That's cute. Man blows his load in a fat chick's mouth. He is considered a bad president.

Man starts a war on completely F-ed up intel and faulty planning and wastes the lives of US troops. He is considered a hero.

Is that all you think clinton is guilty of? How about adultery? How about perjury? How about disgracing the office of the President of the United States?

 

[qckbeam]

Is that all you think clinton is guilty of? How about adultery? How about perjury? How about disgracing the office of the President of the United States?

I would consider a lying, warmongering President a disgrace to the office over a man who had sex with someone other than his wife.

 

[Scoobnfl]

I would consider a lying, warmongering President a disgrace to the office over a man who had sex with someone other than his wife.

of course you would. just think only slighlty more than 4 more yeeeeeuhz!!!!!!

I bet you think carter was a good strong president too?

 

[qckbeam]

of course you would. just think only slighlty more than 4 more yeeeeeuhz!!!!!!

Sorry, I have no idea what you're saying there.

 

[Absinthe]

It's not just teh oral, it was the whole blatatn littany of incompetence. Why just lob few cruise missiles at Osama? Wht not go after him? Oh cuz the republicans in the senate would've talked bad about him, right, right.... WHO give a fawk.

Oh yeah, because we knew exactly where Osama was.

Bush doesn't give a fawk what the whinin vaginas have to say, he's going to do what he believes is right for our country and security. It takes a strong leader to do that, Clinton never was a strong leader, and 8 years weak leadership and allowing the terrorist threat to build caught up with us on 9/11.

And yet you support a man that read and dismissed a memo titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US".

You're right. Bush doesn't give a "fawk", apparently.

Is that all you think clinton is guilty of? How about adultery? How about perjury? How about disgracing the office of the President of the United States?

Aside from the adultery, I could also nail the lying attribute to Bush. Except Bush's lies actually resulted in the deaths of people.

I'd consider him to be a pretty big disgrace to the office.

 

[Bodacious]

I would consider a lying, warmongering President a disgrace to the office over a man who had sex with someone other than his wife.

Yah right. And you would have Kerry in office? Good men died when Kerry lied. I am talking about POWs.

Bush didn't lie about anything anywyas. That is more propaganda from the left.

 

[Bodacious]

Aside from the adultery, I could also nail the lying attribute to Bush. Except Bush's lies actually resulted in the deaths of people.

I'd consider him to be a pretty big disgrace to the office.

Bush Jr has liberated 2 nations so far. I think that is noteworthy. Like I said, you can't prove Bush lied anyways, so your argument is moot.

 

[CptStern]

1000's died when a bad man lied

so tell me where is saddam's wmd?:


Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.

George W. Bush September 12, 2002


Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

George W. Bush January 28, 2003



We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.

George Bush February 8, 2003


Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

George Bush March 18, 2003


and finally a quote from his stooge:


We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad.

Donald Rumsfeld March 30, 2003



ya a blowjob is far more damaging to americans then a war based on false pretenses :upstare:

 

[HunterSeeker]

Bush Jr has liberated 2 nations so far. I think that is noteworthy. Like I said, you can't prove Bush lied anyways, so your argument is moot.

So far? The afghans dosent have it much better then before and I hardly would consider people who fear that the visit to the market will be their last one free.

Also by removing saddam you have done al queida a favor. Now they can begin installing the fundamentalist goverment that they want in Iraq. Saddam might have been a muslim but he was no fanatic.

 

[Scoobnfl]

Oh yeah, because we knew exactly where Osama was. .

at the time the cruise missiles were launched, yah we did know exactly where he was, that was why we launched them.

but in Bill's defense he was probably playing his second round of hide the havanna that day and thus was tooooo busy


What was Bush's lie?

 

[Absinthe]

Liberated? Ha! Invaded Afghanistan, set aims on Iraq, invade Iraq, abandon Afghanistan, watch Iraq degenerate into chaos, violence, and develop an insurgency that is still killing people on a daily basis.

If that's your definition of liberation, then I'm glad I'm not in a position to be subject to it.

As for Bush's lies... Does it matter? If he falsified information to get into a war, then he's a liar. If he invaded because he decided to go off of questionable intel that nobody was fully convinced of, then he's incompetent. Never mind how poorly this war was planned.

Either way, I don't view him as a man fit to run the USA.

 

[Bodacious]

Lol stern, I cna't believe you are still holding on to that nonsense.

You know the intelligence wasn't up to snuff. It is no crime that Bush went to war on it. WE believed it to be true at the time. Now our intelligence agencies are being overhauled.

When one believe something to be true and attempts to convince others that the same something is true and the something is later found to be false that person is not a liar, he was just wrong.


Is the Taliban in power? No. Is Saddam in Power? No. Are people being oppressed in those nations? No.

Nation building doesn't happen overnight. It took more than 30 years to get Germany back to Normal (fall of Berlin Wall).

 

[Bodacious]

Oh and btw, the troop levels in Afgahnistan never decreased, so your claim that afghanistan was abandoned is false and you are attempting to spread propaganda and lies.

 

[Absinthe]

When one believe something to be true and attempts to convince others that the same something is true and the something is later found to be false that person is not a liar, he was just wrong.

...or incompetent. I don't recall wide acceptance of the "evidence" ever taking place. I do, however, recall a certain Colin Powell calling the case against Iraq "bullshit".

Is the Taliban in power? No. Is Saddam in Power? No. Are people being oppressed in those nations? No.

Oh no, no dictators. Just terrorists and chaos. God knows if even worse people will take up the positions of power.

And you know what's funny? During the invasion, the US apparently still hadn't learned from its mistakes. They would supply weapons and ammunition to supposed "freedom fighters" so that they could take care of the dirty work for them. These "freedom fighters" would then commit revenge killings, acts of brutality, and assume positions of power within their communities.

Good job on adding fuel to the fire.

Nation building doesn't happen overnight. It took more than 30 years to get Germany back to Normal (fall of Berlin Wall).

It also took about 20 years after WW1 to embrace Nazism and commit some of the worst atrocites mankind has ever known.

Oh and btw, the troop levels in Afgahnistan never decreased, so your claim that afghanistan was abandoned is false and you are attempting to spread propaganda and lies.

It was abandone in that the country that we had first invaded (and was also harboring terrorists, but nvm that) lost nearly all attention when we shifted our focus and effort towards Iraq.

Last I checked, the number of troops stationed in Iraq heavily outweighed those that were in Afghanistan.

 

[Bodacious]

...or incompetent. I don't recall wide acceptance of the "evidence" ever taking place. I do, however, recall a certain Colin Powell calling the case against Iraq "bullshit".

Oh, so Bush isn't a liar, but now he incompetent? Which is it? This is called double talk.

Source on Colin Powell's quote please.

Oh no, no dictators. Just terrorists and chaos. God knows if even worse people will take up the positions of power.

And you know what's funny? During the invasion, the US apparently still hadn't learned from its mistakes. They would supply weapons and ammunition to supposed "freedom fighters" so that they could take care of the dirty work for them. These "freedom fighters" would then commit revenge killings, acts of brutality, and assume positions of power within their communities.

Good job on adding fuel to the fire.

Chaos doesn't exist except for a few small regions. A vast majority of the region is thriving and doing very well.

I need a source on you accusations about the military handing out weapons.

It also took about 20 years after WW1 to embrace Nazism and commit some of the worst atrocites mankind has ever known.

So is that what you think is going to happen here? Way to be optimistic! /sarcasm

Doom and Gloom never wins.

It was abandone in that the country that we had first invaded (and was also harboring terrorists, but nvm that) lost nearly all attention when we shifted our focus and effort towards Iraq.

Last I checked, the number of troops stationed in Iraq heavily outweighed those that were in Afghanistan.

You can't deny that the troop levels in Afghanistan never decreased. The only thing that changed was the media coverage.

So what if there are more troops in Iraq? Iraq is a much bigger job and requires more personnel.

 

[Absinthe]

Oh, so Bush isn't a liar, but now he incompetent? Which is it? This is called double talk.

I believe I made it clear that it was one or the other. Or maybe both. You decide.

Source on Colin Powell's quote please.

Here ya go.

Chaos doesn't exist except for a few small regions. A vast majority of the region is thriving and doing very well.

Define "thriving and doing well".

I need a source on you accusations about the military handing out weapons.

While I do not have an online source, there are accounts of having it happening in the book "Generation Kill". Don't let the title mislead you. It isn't really a degrading painting of our troops.

So is that what you think is going to happen here? Way to be optimistic! /sarcasm

Doom and Gloom never wins.

Comments like this are stupid, since I could just go for the obvious contrast and say that you're being naive.

You can't deny that the troop levels in Afghanistan never decreased. The only thing that changed was the media coverage.

And yet that's what I don't understand. We should have put more troops in Afghanistan and held off of Iraq.

So what if there are more troops in Iraq? Iraq is a much bigger job and requires more personnel.

And yet Afghanistan is the country that not only openly and willingly harbored terrorists, but is also the area where Osama and his buddies are currently hanging about. You'd think that we would have far more troops deployed in a country containing the man that murdered thousands of our own people.

Iraq may be a bigger job, but it's not like it was unavoidable.

 

[Absinthe]

Any way, I'm done here. I need sleep, and I eventually need to butt out of these things at some point since... y'know... they never really end.

 

[CptStern]

Lol stern, I cna't believe you are still holding on to that nonsense

You know the intelligence wasn't up to snuff.

of course I know it wasnt up to "snuff" it came directly from a known terrorist: current prime minister of Iraq Iyad allawi

It is no crime that Bush went to war on it.

yes it is, he knew saddam didnt have WMD ...in fact he had other reasons for invading

WE believed it to be true at the time. Now our intelligence agencies are being overhauled.

nope tenent was the fall guy he took one for the chief ....they knew what they were doing

When one believe something to be true and attempts to convince others that the same something is true and the something is later found to be false that person is not a liar, he was just wrong.

so you're saying they were incompetant or just didnt do their homework? they took the word of a terrorist and murderer ..how can that be solid evidence?

Is the Taliban in power? No. Is Saddam in Power? No.

opium production is at it's highest since pre-taliban days, lawlessness rules the land and you cant find a handful of men responsible for the single biggest act of terrorism on american soil ..ya you're really busting a gut over there :upstare:

Are people being oppressed in those nations? No.

nope, they're just dying at an alarming rate

Nation building doesn't happen overnight. It took more than 30 years to get Germany back to Normal (fall of Berlin Wall).

you will never conquor iraq, you will never bring western style democracy to iraq ..you've set the stage for regime upon regime of future fundamentalist despots to rule Iraq with an iron fist (Allawi is the first of many) ..this was a disaster from the get go ..you've also managed to mobalize generations of angry muslims with a grudge against america ...that will be paid back in spades in decades to come

 

[seinfeldrules]

If he didnt know, then why did Clinton, Kerry, and the CIA all know? It is quite obvious it was bad intel, you just refuse to look at the truth.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

One mile... No one here sputtering garbage could have done it on a sunny windless day with a laser beam....

One mile... Stopped hundereds of innocents dieing in a cowarids act of terrosim...

One Milimeter.... The amount of difference anyone here has made compared to the Sgt.

One Mile... This Sgt. Risked his life crawling for 28 hours getting in range after 2 hrs sleep.

One mile... And a few hundred yards late the Sgt wouldn't have saved innocent lives. Another AP news story of hundereds dead on the street.

One mile... Sgt deserves our respect and not your politics for we all (UN inlcuded) sent him to where he would rather not be this Christmas.

4,000 miles seperates him and his loved ones this holiday season.


Microscopic... The line people draw saying they wish the terrorists bomb would have killed hundereds of innocent civilians and children rather than the good Sgt. taking him out first.

Miles of good wishes for you Sgt!

 

[Raziaar]

If he didnt know, then why did Clinton, Kerry, and the CIA all know? It is quite obvious it was bad intel, you just refuse to look at the truth.

Heh, that's so true. Or maybe Stern has far more faith in Bush and believes him to be far more intelligent than we all seem to think! Because, how else could bush, take all this information from the CIA, other intelligence agencies, whom Kerry also thought was true as well, and *KNOW* it was false information and chose not to act on it and not go to war? Because Bush is a super genius who could penetrate past the intelligence gathering abilities of the CIA who supplies the government with information.

We don't need the CIA, we have George W. Bush, the amazing, truth deciphering prodigy, whom despite all supplied information supporting one theory, KNOWS it to be the exact opposite, and chooses to withhold it from the public in order to wage war upon a country that could jeapordize his relationship and cost the government and the people billions of dollars, just because he is a war mongering power hungry man!

Heh. :stare: :upstare:

 

[GiaOmerta]

We shouldnt recongize the deeds of one soldier over the whole who continually fight and die overseas.

He made a good shot. A sniper is a demanding job, apparantly he is doing a good job. Good for him.

These insurgents are people just like us. They are human.
They are also filled with hatred from their birth. Hatred towards the Jews and those who side with him. The ironic thing is many of these supposed insurgents are foreign fighters, fighting for their own agendas. We seem to forget this fact and biasly label these insurgents as freedom fighters, but that's what they exactly are, fighting against freedom.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

We shouldnt recongize the deeds of one soldier over the whole who continually fight and die overseas.

He made a good shot. A sniper is a demanding job, apparantly he is doing a good job. Good for him.

These insurgents are people just like us. They are human.
They are also filled with hatred from their birth. Hatred towards the Jews and those who side with him. The ironic thing is many of these supposed insurgents are foreign fighters, fighting for their own agendas. We seem to forget this fact and biasly label these insurgents as freedom fighters, but that's what they exactly are, fighting against freedom.

You are absolutely right. They are fighting for their freedom. Their freedom to instill terror, maime, kill, and otherwise over throw the govt by the poeple and for the people of Iraq.

Freedom fighters...? LOL Sure. If you're talking about thier freedom to do unspeakable acts on others.

Lets hear how may bleeding heart liberals want to ensure he is free to kill as he pleases. After all that's his right... Right?

Well sorry to burst you bubble but the good Sgt put a well deserved bullet through his brain before he could exercise his right to kill many innocents lives. But go on defending his rights to blow them up, you discpicable people...

You have no humanity.... Sleep well tonight because you put up a good defense for the actions of a mass murderer.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

You are absolutely right. They are fighting for their fredom. Their freedom to instill terror, Maime, Kill, and otherwise over throw the govt. by the poeple and for the people of Iraq.

Freedom fighters... LOL Sure. Thier freedom to do unspeakable acts on others.

Lets hear how may bleeding heart liberals want to ensure he is free to kill as he pleases. After all that's his right... Right?

Well sorry to burst you bubble but the good Sgt put a well deserved bullet through his brain before he could exercise the freedom to kill may innocents lives you all want him to have.

And at a mile no less!

Well I'm pretty sure he was posting in support though.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Well I'm pretty sure he was posting in support though.

LOL.. Yeah. I know. Then I went on to derate, debunk, and defile, those who are butt sore over the one mile loss of the brave freedom fighter, terrorsit, coward. bomber.

An important point Giomertra made was that he was that he was not doing anything out of the ordinary.. For the rest of the brave men that are there. Americans and otherwise.

The good Sgt. isn't telling his story here. I am. He would say to you all that it was nothing. Just doing his job, and that there are a multitude of others that deserve more in the way of praise for their bravery and strength through this terrible conflict with the radicals.

 

[qckbeam]

Christ Shellback, why do you make it sound like we were rooting for the insurgent or something? Like anyone here actually wanted the man to blow a load of innocents to kingdom come. All anyone has said is that we shouldn't be boasting, joking, or celebrating the loss of life regardless of what side it was on.

 

[Raziaar]

Christ Shellback, why do you make it sound like we were rooting for the insurgent or something? Like anyone here actually wanted the man to blow a load of innocents to kingdom come. All anyone has said is that we shouldn't be boasting, joking, or celebrating the loss of life regardless of what side it was on.

Well, the loss of life shouldn't be celebrated, but the prevention of more death and destruction should be. Although, no extra special praise should be given to this soldier over the others. He's just doing his duty.

 

[Edcrab]

Interesting. With a closing statement along the lines of the insurgents literally "fighting against freedom" I'd have presumed his angle was fairly transparent, but perhaps he edited without anyone else noticing. Possible.

The Iraq war was a pointless conflict fought purely to further political agendas. Replace that with oil/lies/poor intelligence, depending on personal taste. I still think it's rather ironic that the UN and the neighbouring Arab states blocked the original attempt to depose Saddam with the excuse that it would "undermine stability in the area". How right they were.

Saddam's removal was a good thing. The problem is that the insurgents don't see it like that- they see themselves being indefinitely occupied by a hostile nation. If the Coalition pulled out now, many Iraqi's would be glad to see the back of them- even as others- alongside the UN- criticised them for leaving a job unfinished; leaving a country with widespread power struggles and a ruined infrastructure.

Bluntly, the war won't be won, as the terrorists will happily blow each other up for all eternity, and because of that we'll be in there for years in an endless cycle of bloodyminded stupidity. You could sees it as the end of a tyranical regime, but they see it as the beginning of a worse chapter of their history.

I wish people would stop supporting the war in Afghanistan- the fact remains that although the government refused to hand over suspects (and thus "overtly supported" terrorism) the country was utterly crippled by the over enthusiastic bombing campaign. The fact that the UN was happily spurring us on while we pulverised a practically Third World nation makes me think even less of them. Wait, no, Rwanda and the continuing Sudan fiasco make me think even less of them.

We still haven't located the main cell- and the reason for that seems fairly obvious to me- they must've moved, unless our armies are really as incompetant as people make them out to be. Watching civillian-filled towns blow up from your cosy hole-in-the-ground is usually a big hint to run away.

Personally, part of me thinks the Coalition just wanted to get back at Saddam for making comments in support of the WTC attacks. I mean, we devastated a country due to the actions of its government, so by those warped standards deposing a dictator for a horrific viewpoint is quite acceptable.

 

[The Monkey]

Those terrorists can never be called freedom fighters in any sens of the word.

Freedom fighters fight under a flag, wear uniforms and have organizations. These scumbags don't.

Freedom fighters don't decapitate innocent civilllians.

Freedom fighters don't targert their own population that doesn't agree with them.

Look back at the revolutionary war. No british troops were decapitated and their body parts sent home. No citizen loyal to the thone was murdered because of it.

Freedom fighters my ass.

What about the French resistance during WWII? Weren't they terrorists

 

[Hapless]

You know, some of the citizens of the early American colonies were probably considered to be "terrorists" by the English government of the time.

It's all about perspective. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, as has been stated already. Yes, many of these people are indeed evil and commit horrible crimes. Yet there are others just fighting for what they believe in. To paint all their motives and intentions with one large brush stroke is the worst kind of generalization. The world is a complex place and is not easily separated into black and white, good and evil.

For example, terrorists attacked the United States and killed many innocent Americans. Then the United States invaded Iraq and killed many times that number of innocent Iraqis. Both acts ended in the deaths of thousands of civilians. Was one act better than the other? Are those deaths deemed "ok" because of our supposed moral high ground? I've noticed many Americans feel terrorists are somehow sub-human and only deserving of death because of the terrorists who were responsible for the deaths of Americans. They think this while at the same time somehow are shocked when, heaven forbid, an Iraqi might feel the same way about the country that has killed thousands of Iraqi citizens. How do you think you would feel if another country invaded your own country and killed your own family? Would you love and accept these invading liberators or would you fight back? And if you did resist would you be a freedom fighter or a terrorist?

It's all about perspective.

Another thing is that the label "terrorist" is becoming one of the worst stereotypes of our time. All that is needed anymore is to label a group as being terrorists and that automatically makes them evil, regardless of the actual situation or circumstances. It's a dangerous way of thinking in my opinion that lends way to much power to governments who are able to manipulate and sway public opinion in their favor with a name, a mere label. Not only does it lead to a governmental power in the form of a political tool, but it creates a severe "us or them" mentality that distorts reality into a deceptively simple idea of good and evil, which leaves no room for compromise or consideration of the real complexities involved between opposing cultures. And where does all this leave "us"?

...to mindlessly celebrate "their" deaths at the hands of one of our own. Just don't be surprised when "they" celebrates "our" deaths just as enthusiastically. But that's ok isn't it? Because after all, we have the comfort of knowing that we cleanse them from atop our white pillar of moral righteousness, while they murder us from the black depths of their evil ways....

...right?

You know, try as I might, I can't find any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of American Revolutionaries targeting civilian populations, or beheading innocent civilians. They dumped a bunch of tea into Boston Harbor...ATROCITY!! SCANDAL!!! Oh, and by the way, those folks were fighting for freedom and democracy, not totalitarian theocracy. Just a little perspective there from your old pal Hapless.

 

[Edcrab]

Yep, in most senses of the word. Although I don't recall them collecting journalists or contract workers to eliminate, just Nazi officers who had every intention of staying in France for all eternity. Usual parrallels along the lines of the Iraq conflict will undoubtedly follow, but the French resistance never car bombed ques of police officers.

But for the record, I hope no one tries likening the Coalition to Hitler's ranks. Anyone who genuinely thinks we're worse than the Nazi's, for example, shouldn't be posting here.

 

[Korgoth]

Is it good this man is dead? Yeah probably, it means he won't injur or kill anyone. Is it worth praise that this soldier killed him? No, when is death worth getting happy over?
The moment you are excited to see some one die, is the moment you yourself lose your humanity.

Ok i'll meet the right half way here, goody a terrorist is dead.Now you guys bow your heads with me as humanity flushes itself further down the toilet.

 

[CptStern]

You know, try as I might, I can't find any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of American Revolutionaries targeting civilian populations, or beheading innocent civilians. They dumped a bunch of tea into Boston Harbor...ATROCITY!! SCANDAL!!! Oh, and by the way, those folks were fighting for freedom and democracy, not totalitarian theocracy. Just a little perspective there from your old pal Hapless.

insurgent is not the same thing as terrorist ...the media is to blame for blurring the line

it's the same thing as saying all american soldiers are torturing scumbags who enjoy humiliating prisoners which I'm sure you will agree is not the case

 

[KoreBolteR]

insurgent is not the same thing as terrorist ...the media is to blame for blurring the line

it's the same thing as saying all american soldiers are torturing scumbags who enjoy humiliating prisoners which I'm sure you will agree is not the case

except THESE insurgents are terrorists

the american marines are "freedom fighters"

 

[CptStern]

that's laughable

 

[KoreBolteR]

ok you tell me why these terrorists are insurgents then

or "freedom fighters" as you call them ?

 

[Hapless]

...the media is to blame for blurring the line

That's what I like about you, Stern. If I ever want to know who's to blame for anything, I need only do a search of your posts and it will be in there somewhere. "Stern's the name, and placing blame is my game" :E

 

[CptStern]

That's what I like about you, Stern. If I ever want to know who's to blame for anything, I need only do a search of your posts and it will be in there somewhere. "Stern's the name, and placing blame is my game" :E

ya sorry I dont subscribe to this ideology

 

[seinfeldrules]

I suppose such a moving argument should be responded to in kind.