Nice work Sgt

[RakuraiTenjin]

So at least we can all agree on a common ground-

It's horrible that things, in general for all humankind, degenerated (I mean, over all time too. Not anything recently.) to the point that there are beings like those who will kill anyone, anything, and have lost shreds of humanity that they can suicide bomb children and think it is a great act (This is the point I have been trying to push, too. Not sure if it's always been clear or has sounded harsh, my belief though)

We can all agree that it's better the terrorist gone. It is sad. I feel it's sad that those people have lost their humanity, others feel it is sad specifically that he was killed, others feel for different reasons.

We can just hope that, through any way, the forces that are right prevail always.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Just as Stern, for some reason, did not support the removal of Saddam from Kuwait. I guess its OK to appease, WWII must not have taught us much of a lesson...

 

[Neutrino]

no cos i dont see any american in this world capturing and beheading civilians around the world.. :hmph:

Ah I see, so only capturing and beheading civillians makes a person a terrorist then? Sorry, I was a bit confused when you implied people who killed civillians were terrorists. I understand now though. Just killing civillians is ok, but beheading them is not. I think I got it now.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

you really are a dumbass ...sorry, but that is totally baseless and without merit ..do yourself a favour and read the whole thread before you shoot your mouth off

Then tell us you think a 1000 yard shot was a really good shot and that putting down a guy planting an IED in a civialian area was a good thing.

You probably wouldn't get so much hate mail if you could see the obvious.

 

[Raziaar]

you really are a dumbass ...sorry, but that is totally baseless and without merit ..do yourself a favour and read the whole thread before you shoot your mouth off

What I was talking about doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the thread. It has to do with your behavior in all the other threads posted about the united states, and your 'good riddance' attitude everytime the casualty is an american life rather than an iraqi.

 

[Neutrino]

Then tell us you think a 1000 yard shot was a really good shot and that putting down a guy planting an IED in a civialian area was a good thing.

There is a difference between a good thing and a necessary thing.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Ah I see, so only capturing and beheading civillians makes a person a terrorist then? Sorry, I was a bit confused when you implied people who killed civillians were terrorists. I understand now though. Just killing civillians is ok, but beheading them is not. I think I got it now.

I think you know what he meant.

There ARE American terrorists. Timothy McVeigh, for instance. A horrible being, who I also don't consider a human, and has been justly put to death for his crimes. There are others, too, doing various things. All terrorists need to be taken out, be it any way to simply stop them.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Just killing civillians is ok, but beheading them is not. I think I got it now.

It is also the manner in which they are killed. Often times terrorist will single out civilians and there is no attempt to prevent casualties.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Ah I see, so only capturing and beheading civillians makes a person a terrorist then? Sorry, I was a bit confused when you implied people who killed civillians were terrorists. I understand now though. Just killing civillians is ok, but beheading them is not. I think I got it now.

ohhhh, you know what i mean, you want me to spell out overything the terrorists do to kill innocent people, ill be here all day, cmon.

whats that saying ... "one death is a tragedy.. million deaths is a statistic"

 

[Neutrino]

ohhhh, you know what i mean, you want me to spell out overything the terrorists do to kill innocent people, ill be here all day, cmon.

Sorry, I was being intentionally dense. I only meant that I find it odd that there is such a distinction made between Iraqi's killing civillians and Americans killing civilians. The former are considered terrorists and the latter are considered heros.

I think you know what he meant.

Of course I do. I was just making a point.

Often times terrorist will single out civilians and there is no attempt to prevent casualties.

Hmm, sort of like bombing civilian cities?

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Hmm, sort of like bombing civilian cities?

Exactly.. And you know who has been doing that right?

 

[KoreBolteR]

There is a difference between a good thing and a necessary thing.

can you tell us what it is?

since we are the good guys, any necessary thing , is a good thing, right? :naughty:

 

[seinfeldrules]

Hmm, sort of like bombing civilian cities?

Back in WWII your argument is acceptable. Currently, it is not when we can single out a house to hit out of a crowded neighborhood. There are countless examples of the US doing everything imagineable to prevent civilian casualties, and if you ignore this then you are doing yourself and this argument a disservice.

 

[Neutrino]

Exactly.. And you know who has been doing that right?

We were not all that long ago.

can you tell us what it is?

since we are the good guys, any necessary thing , is a good thing, right? :naughty:

I merely meant that I do not think the killing of another human being is ever "good." It may be necessary, but I do not think it is good.

Back in WWII your argument is acceptable. Currently, it is not when we can single out a house to hit out of a crowded neighborhood.

Ah, so why exactly did so many die from our bombs then?

There are countless examples of the US doing everything imagineable to prevent civilian casualties, and if you ignore this then you are doing yourself and this argument a disservice.

Everything imaginable? Hmm, I would imagine that not invading in the first place would have prevented a few thousands deaths here and there, don'tcha think?

Anyhow, I'm done for now.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Sorry, I was being intentionally dense. I only meant that I find it odd that there is such a distinction made between Iraqi's killing civillians and Americans killing civilians. The former are considered terrorists and the latter are considered heros.

but i dont see any americans killing iraqi civilians on purpose, unlike the heartless terrorists.

im off to bed, nice debating guys :cheers:
cya tomoro

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Sorry, I was being intentionally dense. I only meant that I find it odd that there is such a distinction made between Iraqi's killing civillians and Americans killing civilians. The former are considered terrorists and the latter are considered heros.

The difference is that when there are civvy casualties from the coalition (assuming it's not a murder, in which case the soldier isn't seen as a hero but is courtmartialed), it is purely an accident, not meant to happen and not wanted, and remorse is given with profuse apologies.

A terrorists targets the civillians.

 

[CptStern]

No they don't. They knoiw well that we take extreme carearound innocents. Thus thier tactics to shield themsleves with innocents and kill innocents to gain power.

you dont seem to understand ..THEY DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT YOU JOE! BILL! OR ACHMED!!! They just want one thing ... control! control of a country you took apart. Every single morally justified/fanatical/fringe/fundamentalist/religious/social/ethnic group has taken up arms against the invader. you caused this! you opened the gates to the hellhole that is now iraq! for what? a ****ing lie? get this thru your paleolithic brain :you are the occupiers! ..you are the foreigners on their land! You are the ones that will ultimately pay the price with many more 9/11's to come ..you will never defeat terrorism you will never take over Iraq ... it will remain a chaotic state for decades to come! and the innocent civilians of america will stand and deliver on the karma backlog that a handful of greedy profiteers created

 

[seinfeldrules]

but i dont see any americans killing iraqi civilians on purpose, unlike the heartless terrorists

This is untrue. There are examples of this. The main difference is that we punish our criminals, not celebrate them. Our criminals are their heroes.

 

[seinfeldrules]

.you are the foreigners on their land! You are the ones that will ultimately pay the price with many more 9/11's to come ..you will never defeat terrorism you will never take over Iraq ... it will remain a chaotic state for decades to come! and the innocent civilians of america will stand and deliver on the karma backlog that a handful of greedy profiteers created

It really does seem like you hope the terrorists will win. Quite schocking to read, but not all that suprising. That statement would fit in pretty nicely in one of Bin Laden's rants. You're calling people that single out civilians morally correct?

 

[Neutrino]

It really does seem like you hope the terrorists will win. Quite schocking to read, but not all that suprising. That statement would fit in pretty nicely in one of Bin Laden's rants. You're calling people that single out civilians morally correct?

Nice of you to completely misunderstand him.

So you actually think we will win the "War on Terror" huh? Amazing.

The difference is that when there are civvy casualties from the coalition (assuming it's not a murder, in which case the soldier isn't seen as a hero but is courtmartialed), it is purely an accident, not meant to happen and not wanted, and remorse is given with profuse apologies.

A terrorists targets the civillians.

Is an accident truely an accident when it is known that an action will result in civillian deaths? Intentions are all well and good, but when it is known beforehand that death will come from an act the end result is really all that matters I think. The people are just as dead either way.

Oops, now I'm really done.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

you dont seem to understand ..THEY DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT YOU JOE! BILL! OR ACHMED!!! They just want one thing ... control! control of a country you took apart. Every single morally justified/fanatical/fringegroup/fundamentalist/religious/social/ethnic group has taken up arms against the invader. you caused this! you opened the gates to the hellhole that is now iraq! for what? a ****ing lie? get this thru your paleolithic brain :you are the occupiers! ..you are the foreigners on their land! You are the ones that will ultimately pay the price with many more 9/11's to come ..you will never defeat terrorism you will never take over Iraq ... it will remain a chaotic state for decades to come! and the innocent civilians of america will stand and deliver on the karma backlog that a handful of greedy profiteers created

Wrong, it is a very small minority that are insurgents. And a huge proportion of them, if not over half are foreigners themselves. The most infamous terrorist/insurgent, Zarqawi, is a Jordanian. Iraqis are optimistic about the upcoming elections, the elections office there was stunned that in just a few short weeks, over a million Iraqis checked and verified to make sure they were properly ready and registered to vote, not wanting to arrive at the poll station with any problems. After the elections occur, slowly the violence spurge will decrease. When the new Iraqi elected government has a well trained security force, the coalition forces can withdraw, things will be fine. It's a tough road. It was always said that it would be an extremely tough situation, never, ever was signed as a cakewalk.

 

[CptStern]

Then tell us you think a 1000 yard shot was a really good shot and that putting down a guy planting an IED in a civialian area was a good thing.

that has absolutely nothing to do with this situation, read my post page 6

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

you dont seem to understand ..THEY DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT YOU JOE! BILL! OR ACHMED!!! They just want one thing ... control! control of a country you took apart. Every single morally justified/fanatical/fringe/fundamentalist/religious/social/ethnic group has taken up arms against the invader. you caused this! you opened the gates to the hellhole that is now iraq! for what? a ****ing lie? get this thru your paleolithic brain :you are the occupiers! ..you are the foreigners on their land! You are the ones that will ultimately pay the price with many more 9/11's to come ..you will never defeat terrorism you will never take over Iraq ... it will remain a chaotic state for decades to come! and the innocent civilians of america will stand and deliver on the karma backlog that a handful of greedy profiteers created

I understand that. I don't know if anyone else does but that makes sense. Yeah. We have to get out of there.

Every GI over there, wants to get out of there. We want the Iraqi's to control their own Government. So we are shoring up what they have until they can stand on their own.

I wish they could handle it on their own tomorrow. But with a few lunatics planting bombs they can't handle it just yet. The Iraqis (majority civilians) want us to to keep going. As well as buy many bootleg CD's of Brittnay Speers.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Nice of you to completely misunderstand him.

How so? He wrote that the USA would always lose yada yada terrorists will kill the US for attempting to fight us yada yada. Same things I hear from Bin Laden.

So you actually think we will win the "War on Terror" huh? Amazing.

Yes, people said the Cold War couldnt be won either. We all know how that turned out.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

that has absolutely nothing to do with this situation, read my post page 6

You are posting in the wrong thread than.

 

[qckbeam]

It really does seem like you hope the terrorists will win. Quite schocking to read, but not all that suprising. That statement would fit in pretty nicely in one of Bin Laden's rants. You're calling people that single out civilians morally correct?

He was simply explaining what is true. We have opened the floodgates, we have acted in a way that has already stirred up plenty of hatred for our country, and could very well be the reason behind the next attack, or some attack twenty years from now. For every father we kill, we leave behind two angry sons. This won't be over in our lifetime.

He's right; you can't beat insurgents on their own turf. It's not something that can be won. They'll fight us for 100 years, because to them we are the invader, the enemy, and they are fighting for control of their homeland. They want to run it the way they want to run it and they don't appreciate our coming in and taking over. He's also right about the innocents of America being the ones that will pay for all of this in the end. It won't be George Bush; it'll be 1,000 people in a shopping mall, or 500 people in a restaurant, 70,000 in a football stadium.

 

[CptStern]

You are posting in the wrong thread than.

just read it

 

[seinfeldrules]

He was simply explaining what is true. We have opened the floodgates, we have acted in a way that has already stirred up plenty of hatred for our country, and could very well be the reason behind the next attack, or some attacks and newfound hatred 20 years from now. He's right; you can't beat insurgents on their own turf. It's not something that can be won. They'll fight us for 100 years, because to them we are the invader, the enemy, and they are fighting for control of their homeland. They want to run it the way they want to run it and they don't appreciate our coming in and taking over. He's also right about the innocents of American being the ones that will pay for all of this in the end. It won't be George Bush; it'll be 1,000 people in a shopping mall, or 500 people in a restaurant, 70,000 in a football stadium.

The same thing was true even before we invaded Iraq. There was no Iraq before 9/11, but that did not prevent the terrorists. Sitting back and waiting will not accomplish anything. It is also interesting to note that none of the oil rich Arab countries have donated enough to the tsunami relief fund to make it into the top 10 world wide. Denmark is doing better.

 

[Neutrino]

How so? He wrote that the USA would always lose yada yada terrorists will kill the US for attempting to fight us yada yada. Same things I hear from Bin Laden.

You might want to go back and read those "yada yada's".

Yes, people said the Cold War couldnt be won either. We all know how that turned out.

Yes, because the fight against terrorism is so similar to the fight against the soviet union.

Let's see, over 3 years after the world's super power declared "war on terror" the terrorists are stronger than when we began. Yup, we'll win this thing any day now.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Safest flight record since Pre 9-11... You don't suppose the terrorists have their hands full?

Sleep well tonight Cpt. Because we are keeping them at bay for you.

 

[qckbeam]

The same thing was true even before we invaded Iraq. There was no Iraq before 9/11, but that did not prevent the terrorists. Sitting back and waiting will not accomplish anything. It is also interesting to note that none of the oil rich Arab countries have donated enough to the tsunami relief fund to make it into the top 10 world wide. Denmark is doing better.

Thing is, we've stirred up even more hatred and animosity with our war in Iraq now than there had been pre-invasion. Our invading the Middle East isn't what I'd call the best course of action if you want to try and settle things. It's only going to stir the bees nest.

What do you mean by sitting back and waiting by the way? Sitting back and waiting for what? And what do the Arab countries donation amounts have anything to do with this?

Safest flight record since Pre 9-11... You don't suppose the terrorists have their hands full?

Sleep well tonight Cpt. Because we are keeping them at bay for you.

It's been three years and a few months since Sept. 11th. Your statement is not only premature, it's ill-founded. Why would they attack the same way twice? What's stopping them from boarding a bus and blowing it to kingdom come? You honestly believe the US sleeper cells haven't attacked again because they are unable to attack? That seems quite rash, and overconfident. Perhaps they are regrouping, gathering strength, waiting for the opportune moment? This whole thing has been going on for three years. It will take decades, or centuries, to play out to completion.

 

[KoreBolteR]

oh right,,, so thier homeland was being run by a man whokilled his own people, then we came in and freed them, they were happy, why didnt things stop at that?

but OH NO, in come the FOREIGN terrorists from jordan, afghanistan, iran, suadi arabia , syria, etc etc.
ALL of them are just there because they want to kill westerners.
the IRAQI civilians tho do NOT, they want BOTH terrorists and coalition to leave, but this wont happen since the coalition are there to protect the civilians from the terrorists (the civilians wont feel safe with the coalition out of iraq anyway).
most iraqi civilians are scared of the terrorist here, the bad guys, the people some of you guys are defending, are you turning INTO one guys?

 

[seinfeldrules]

You might want to go back and read those "yada yada's".

Ok here they are...

-You are the ones that will ultimately pay the price with many more 9/11's to come
-you will never defeat terrorism you will never take over Iraq .
-it will remain a chaotic state for decades to come!

and the thrilling conclusion of...

-and the innocent civilians of america will stand and deliver on the karma backlog that a handful of greedy profiteers created

Tell me that doesnt fit into a Bin Laden statement piece by piece.

Yes, because the fight against terrorism is so similar to the fight against the soviet union.

In the fact that "it could never be won" it is.

Let's see, over 3 years after the world's super power declared "war on terror" the terrorists are stronger than when we began. Yup, we'll win this thing any day now.

Yes, because cutting off their training grounds in Afghanistan didnt set them back. Causing Libya to end its WMD program didnt set them back. Saudi Arabia taking a harder line on terrorism didnt set them back.

 

[CptStern]

Safest flight record since Pre 9-11... You don't suppose the terrorists have their hands full?

Sleep well tonight Cpt. Because we are keeping them at bay for you.

no your not ..in fact your just making it worse, thanks :|

 

[CptStern]

Ok here they are...

-You are the ones that will ultimately pay the price with many more 9/11's to come
-you will never defeat terrorism you will never take over Iraq .
-it will remain a chaotic state for decades to come!

and the thrilling conclusion of...

-and the innocent civilians of america will stand and deliver on the karma backlog that a handful of greedy profiteers created

Tell me that doesnt fit into a Bin Laden statement piece by piece.


In the fact that "it could never be won" it is.

.

oh please ....you missed that by a country mile

 

[seinfeldrules]

Thing is, we've stirred up even more hatred and animosity with our war in Iraq now than there had been pre-invasion. Our invading the Middle East isn't what I'd call the best course of action if you want to try and settle things. It's only going to stir the bees nest.

And this will lull over time as Iraq becomes a peacefull state and allows freedom to take hold. Once this occurs, public opinion will not be able to ignore the rhetoric spewed out by extremists.

What do you mean by sitting back and waiting by the way? Sitting back and waiting for what?

After 9/11, should we have sat back and waited for 9/11 part 2? Or done something to prevent it. Sorry, but appeasement wont work.

And what do the Arab countries donation amounts have anything to do with this?

Well since America is this big bad boy that hates Islam, why have we donated more to a predominately Muslim nation? Such information will eventually hit the common Muslim in the Middle East and have a positive effect.

oh please ....you missed that by a country mile

They are all quotes bud.

 

[Neutrino]

Safest flight record since Pre 9-11... You don't suppose the terrorists have their hands full?

Sleep well tonight Cpt. Because we are keeping them at bay for you.

Uhuh...

http://www.factcheck.org/article271.html

Furthermore, the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies reported May 25 that the occupation of Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit more members. The institute quoted "conservative" intelligence estimates as saying that al Qaeda has 18,000 potential operatives and is present in more than 60 countries.

Ya, I feel safer already.

In the fact that "it could never be won" it is.

Which is where any similarty stops. Not to mention the fact that we never really "won" the cold war at all.

Yes, because cutting off their training grounds in Afghanistan didnt set them back. Causing Libya to end its WMD program didnt set them back. Saudi Arabia taking a harder line on terrorism didnt set them back.

Read above quote. So how exactly do all these "set backs" explain the fact that the terrorist organizations have grown even bigger since we started fighting them?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Read above quote. So how exactly do all these "set backs" explain the fact that the terrorist organizations have grown even bigger since we started fighting them?

They may have grown temporarily larger, but we are also rallying more and more people to our cause. Terrorism is an evil that must, and will be defeated. Again, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan is cooperating, Libya, Afghanistan is out of the picture. Etc. Etc.

Which is where any similarty stops. Not to mention the fact that we never really "won" the cold war at all.

Care to point out the Soviet Union on a map somewhere.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Care to point out the Soviet Union on a map somewhere..

i thought Soviet Union fell, because thier Economy was low ..
or was it low because of america? lol :smoking:

 

[seinfeldrules]

i thought Soviet Union fell, because thier Economy was low ..
or was it low because of america?

Who forced their economy to fall?