One Thousand A Month Tortured To Death In Iraq

Solaris

Solaris

Party Escort Bot
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
10,318
Reaction score
4
My god, its on prison planet but there are links to other more retuable sorces as well.

"The Baghdad morgue received 1,100 bodies in July alone, about 900 of whom bore evidence of torture or summary execution. That continued throughout the year and last December there were 780 bodies, including 400 having gunshot wounds or wounds as those caused by electric drills."
Click to expand...
Source
"Yes, torture is happening now, mainly in illegal detention places. Such centres are mostly being run by militia that have been absorbed by the police force," says John Pace, who retired last week as human rights chief for the UN assistance mission in Iraq.
In a frank interview with The Times, Dr Pace says photos and forensic records have proved that torture was rife inside detention centres. Though the process of release has been speeded up, there are an estimated 23,000 people in detention, of whom 80 to 90 per cent are innocent.
He says the Baghdad morgue received 1,100 bodies in July alone, about 900 of whom bore evidence of torture or summary execution. That continued throughout the year and last December there were 780 bodies, including 400 having gunshot wounds or wounds as those caused by electric drills.
Dr Pace expresses deep concern over the progress of the Saddam Hussein trial, saying he would have preferred to see the former dictator tried internationally.
Click to expand...


And look at the video at the bottom of the page here
That's pretty brutal too.

What do you guys think
 
1000 a month? 0.o
so a genocide is occuring that no one except you knows about?
 
I've also seen US documents saying the same thing ..dont have time to look for them
 
although fun i hardly find prisonplanet a credible resource.
The video is freekin brutal.
I think its time the coalition leaves....
Unbelievable this kind of stuff actually happens.
 
Ye, that video.
He says "Theres a group of people on the street, should I fire?" Or something like that, and he shoots and kills like 20 people, having no idea who they are and then says, "Oh Dude!" after killing them.
 
Every time you quote PrisonPlanet, I punch a Communist in the face.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Is anyone really surprised by this? Especially with the death squads and terrorists and mavericks running amok? Still, better sources would be much...uh...appreciated?

You want brutality? Look at Darfur. Look at Rwanda. Look at, well, most of Africa. And people just don't seem to care. How many threads are there about brutality and horror in the rest of the world (esp. Iraq...zzz) while Africa imlodes on itself? Ugh...the hypocrisy.
 
Solaris can only see when westeners commit brutality. Admitted, brutality is disgusting no matter who the perpetrator is, but Solaris has tunnel vision on these things.

-Angry Lawyer
 
I read story behind video posted (a long while back.) You'll note this was during the middle of city wide fighting, and the house the plane was originally going to bomb had people firing at US Marines from it. Rest assured the large group was not some innocent protest group leaving en masse in the middle of a giant firefight.

You'll also note that many of those are by insurgent groups, who are particularly known for their summary executions.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
Solaris can only see when westeners commit brutality. Admitted, brutality is disgusting no matter who the perpetrator is, but Solaris has tunnel vision on these things.

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...
I'm just condeming the west for what its doing in Iraq. I'm not going to ignore it becuase other people do such things.
 
ComradeBadger said:
No, you'll just encourage any armed resistance to authority..

Mmm
Click to expand...
Nah, I quite like venusuala (sp?).
 
French Ninja said:
Ok, so revolution in every country is justified except those who dislike America?

:LOL:
Click to expand...
Well, Iran dislike America, but they could do with the peasentry revolitng just the same.
 
Insurgent groups and death squads round up oil workers and collaborators with the Coalition and execute them all the time. Sure, the Iraqi Army tortures people too and that's deplorable, but all I saw in your original post was "OMG US = EVIL", which I guess is par for the course.
 
pssh, venezuela. Chavez is a scumbag who is running his country into the ground. He is going to make Venezuela become the next Cuba.

Anyway yeah. Torture. Thats no good.
 
Look what a "revolution" in Iran did to that country.
They went from modernising nation, to milking goats.. :p
Not all armed revolutions are good. :)
 
Flyingdebris said:
pssh, venezuela. Chavez is a scumbag who is running his country into the ground. He is going to make Venezuela become the next Cuba.

Anyway yeah. Torture. Thats no good.
Click to expand...
What?
Just look at what hes done to the health and education systems their.
 
So it's not the US and British forces causing the problems, it's the Iraqi people destroying themselves.
 
Razor said:
So it's not the US and British forces causing the problems, it's the Iraqi people destroying themselves.
Click to expand...
Who funded and set up the Iraqi Police?
 
Solaris said:
Who funded and set up the Iraqi Police?
Click to expand...


It isn't the Coalition soldiers going out and torturing Iraqi civilians and blowing up mosques everyday, just...sometimes. But more innocent Iraqi people have died in the Iraq war by the hands of other Iraqis and foreign terrorists then by the American's or any other western nation.
 
Isn't one too many? What has happened to you people? Politics has destroyed your humanity or something. "The us army is torturing people." "OH! But someone else tortures MORE people!"

Who is supposed to be the great democracy come to save them from terror?
 
Razor said:
It isn't the Coalition soldiers going out and torturing Iraqi civilians and blowing up mosques everyday, just...sometimes. But more innocent Iraqi people have died in the Iraq war by the hands of other Iraqis and foreign terrorists then by the American's or any other western nation.
Click to expand...



not so sure of that

the lancet's study attributes the majority of deaths to coalition bombing ..only 40% died by small arms/mortars

"The major causes of death reported by the families before the invasion were myocardial infarction, cere-brovascular accidents, and consequences of chronic conditions, while after the invasion violence was the primary cause of death and most of those deaths were attributed to coalition forces."

source

oh and the 100,000 figure is only current up to 2004 ..it's not illogical to conclude it's doubled since then


but either way, whoever pulls the trigger is directly responsible but it cant be ignored that if the US hadnt invaded under false pretenses none of those deaths would have occured
 
dys4iK said:
Isn't one too many? What has happened to you people? Politics has destroyed your humanity or something. "The us army is torturing people." "OH! But someone else tortures MORE people!" Who is supposed to be the great democracy come to save them from terror?
Click to expand...
Quoted for emphasis. Those numbers seem too high to possibly be true, but at the same time chillingly plausible. Plus, everyone seems to ignore the video:

"Oh look, some people. Take them out."
You can't even say that they were likely to be insurgents because they were 'in a certain area' because that's ridiculous, and you can't say they were probably insurgents because they were moving in a big group because that's also ridiculous (I saw a load of kids just walking in an almost military formation today. School trip). So, in essence...they exploded a crowd of random people.
 
Sulkdodds said:
Quoted for emphasis. Those numbers seem too high to possibly be true, but at the same time chillingly plausible. Plus, everyone seems to ignore the video:

"Oh look, some people. Take them out."
You can't even say that they were likely to be insurgents because they were 'in a certain area' because that's ridiculous, and you can't say they were probably insurgents because they were moving in a big group because that's also ridiculous (I saw a load of kids just walking in an almost military formation today. School trip). So, in essence...they exploded a crowd of random people.
Click to expand...
This was during the height of Fallujah fighting, the entire city became a giant warzone, not sure if you've seen footage or not. Marines were taking heavy fire from the area and in particular the building the pilot was about to bomb.
 
Ah, I see. So what you're saying is either that they decided to just kill anyone in the area, or that he missed the building and hit the crowd instead?
 
well im not saying its right, but when the whole town is declared warzone and everybody ordered to evacuate, and after that intense battle goes on vs insurgents who are hiding amongst civilians who refuse to leave.
Note line between insurgent - civilian = a weapon, nothing more.
No shit that civilians will get hit.
Its house-to-house fighting but not vs soldiers, but vs armed civies...
(again, im not claiming its right, im just saying its logical this stuff happens and i think responsibility lies with BOTH parties not just 1)
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
Kill anyone coming out in the area. They're not going to come out in the middle of intense urban combat, that's highly illogical.
Click to expand...
So...kill anyone out on the streets? Is that it? That's absolutely ridiculous. You can't just say 'oh well, obviously anybody out on these streets is looking to get the shit blown out of them.' It's insane. And all that happened there was: "I see some people. Should I shoot them?" No "Hmm, are they insurgents?" No "are they armed?" No "check it out closer." No "Well, I dunno..." Just a short, terse "Take 'em out".

They just dropped a bomb into a crowd and you can't possibly claim that they had any way of knowing/deciding that they were justified in doing it - or even the right to make such a decision with little more than a quick bit of advice from the CO or whoever.

I'm not saying this was some peaceful protest march or something, because in that situation it obviously wasn't. But imagine this. You're in Fallujah, and you're hearing of houses getting bombed. For whatever reason, you hate and/or fear the US forces. You see a load of people walking past, shouting anti-US slogans - and some of them are armed. You join the crowd and shout with them, because you feel safer being with your own people, especially when some are toting AKs. You've just given in to pack mentality and all you're doing is making the situation worse but that doesn't mean you deserve to die.
 
And if you read the links I posted you will see that most of the civillians were shot becuase they thought there was a ceasefire and they were going for supplies to live off, and got shot/bombed/

And QFT Sulkdodds.
 
Nobody deserves to die other than the real criminals.
Are we debating "deserve to die"/"rightious to die" or "who is responsible"?

I dont think any civilian deserves to die or its rightious for any to die. In such situations as this bombing of the civilians, all criminals should be trialed and punished.

I just hope ppl will see the broader picture and see that its both parties that share responsibility for the deaths of civilians in most of these kinds of situations (excluding the bombing..)
The moment civies pick up AK47's and shoot at soldiers, they are no longer regular civilians, being man-women-child they have entered combat and pose a threat..
The moment they hide amongst other civilians and shelter in mosque's they are drawing fire to innocent civilians and share responsibility to what happens to them ( Geneva convention..)...

This doesnt meen the war is justified,.. the war is bs, im just talking about these kinds of incidents and ppl often only see black&white..
 
Well, the people are partly responsible; I said that too (pack mentality ftl). But I think about 75% of the responsibility if not more - insofar as it's possible to calculate a percentage of responsibility - belongs to the American 'side'. I'm not trying to make it black and white by saying 'side'...it's just if I say anything else we could get into an argument about whether it was the guy who pulled the trigger, or the CO on the radio, or general US army policy, or blah blah blah.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
Kill anyone coming out in the area. Rest assured it's not a "protest group" or "wedding procession"

They're not going to come out in the middle of intense urban combat, that's highly illogical.

Would a large unarmed procession begin walking out in the middle of this?

http://www.guzer.com/videos/fallujah_fighting.php
Click to expand...

Why not let somebody who was there do the talking.

I was personally involved with escorting a commander to Fallujah for Operation Phantom Fury. We were told going into Fallujah, into the combat area, that every single person that was walking, talking, breathing was an enemy combatant. As such, every single person that was walking down the street or in a house was a target.
Click to expand...

EVERY SINGLE PERSON

Feel free to read the rest which also includes alligations of the use of White Phosphorus.

This resulted in 10,000 houses being destroyed, 100,000 people being displaced and countless dead, including 70 US soldiers and you feel it is justifiable?

I do agree that both parties involved in this are responsible but when trained soldiers approach civilian areas with the above mentality it is reasonable and understandable that people feel a sense of revulsion.

Again QFT

What has happened to you people? Politics has destroyed your humanity or something
Click to expand...
 
I'm just condeming the west for what its doing in Iraq. I'm not going to ignore it becuase other people do such things.
Click to expand...

Could you perhaps, condemn the insurgents as well? We can't ignore that either.
 
Maybe someone should start a thread called 'Opposition'. And if you make any post criticising anyone, you have to post correspondingly in the Opposition thread about how sucky the opposite number of whoever you criticised is.
 
I'm just condeming the west for what its doing in Iraq. I'm not going to ignore it becuase other people do such things.
Click to expand...
I agree with Kerberos, but also would like to add: thanks for swinging the west as a whole for the Iraq war, while alot of major European countries were NOT involved.. (Germany, France, Belgium, etc)
 
Solaris said:
I'm just condeming the west for what its doing in Iraq. I'm not going to ignore it becuase other people do such things.
Click to expand...

You still support the palestinian terrorists who openly target civilians in their suicide bombings...

I smell hypocrisy.


and by the way, that video made me sick to my stomach. I hate watching people die, even if its from such an angle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top