Poll on Abortion

[ríomhaire]

I agree. It's even perverse...


Why don't you all just leave it exclusively for women (not e.g. pope, as he is a man!!!) to decide, what they want to do.
The point is, if there werent women, there woudn't be any babies. So only they are legitimate to decide.

if there werent men, there woudn't be any babies.

 

[Nofuture]

if there werent men, there woudn't be any babies.

You know, there is a possibility for a woman to become pregnant without a man (artificial insemination) but I've never heard that it's possible to get babies without woman's body.

 

[Geronimous]

If god gave us the ability to kill unborn babies then i say its ok.

Very shortsighted religeous answer. If I were to reason like that, I could say God gave me the ability to kill anyone. BS...

I am pro-adoption. But only if lines are being drawn. Abortion is something that has got to be legal for at least the first month of pregnancy, for rape victims, for teen-pregnancies, for prostitutes, etc... as a last resort. Other options should be considered first, like adoption or even better - to do everything to prevent getting pregnant against your will in the first place.
But for humanity, sex has been a pleasure besides it's use as reproduction. And even with protection things can go wrong.

 

[ríomhaire]

You know, there is a possibility for a woman to become pregnant without a man (artificial insemination) but I've never heard that it's possible to get babies without woman's body.

I know that but they didn't have that technology at the dawn of mankind and that creates a clone of the mother I think (is that right?).
I think a baby is as much the farthers as the mothers. I think if you deny farthers a say then deny farthers responcibility for their child.

 

[Nofuture]

I agree that a women should discuss the matter with her husband or boyfriend. But the very last decision, I think, should be made by her, as she (and not her husband or boyfriend) is going to have that baby a long time in her body.

 

[PickledGecko]

Ahh, the bickerings of a hedonist.

According to what your saying, there is no right and wrong. Or at least there is no such thing as something being righter or wronger than something else. Because what I may want or believe has just as equal value as what you may want or believe and what everbody else wants or believes right? Wrong. Because what I may want or believe may have better implications for humanity and may be based on more experience and knoweldge then what you may want or believe.

No, what I’m saying is, when 2 people have sex it has no affect on anyone else. It is no better or worse for you or me or society for people to remain virgins or to become sluts.

This line is what holds your argument together. If I ain't hurting anyone, then who are you to come here and tell me whats right and wrong? who made you so great?

The reality is, You are hurting people just by existing, but your just ignorant of it. For example, your parents. Spent alot of time and money on you. They could have spent that money elsewhere on things that gave them pleasure, they could have negleted you so they could spend there time doing things more pleasureable than wiping shit off your ass and teahcing you to walk and talk. But because they are knowlegeable and experienced enough to know that not taking care of their son would lead to their son's and consequently their own despondancy, they took actions to do the things that would prevent that from happening. And it's not just the sacrifices that your parents have gone through for your benefit... It's everything. Everytime you go and buy nike shoes for your 'not-doing-anybody-harm-pleasure' People in indonesia are straving because there getting paid less than 6 cents a shoe to feed themselves and their families. Everytime you go and buy a goddamn bananna for your 'not-doing-anybody-harm-pleasure' people in south america are working all day for two cents to provide you those banannas. The world is full of crap and exploitation that your partly responsible for, your just not aware of it, which brings me back to my original point. If you're an ignorant fool playing half-life 2 whilst wearing your nike shoes and eating a bananna, thinking "Im not hurting anyone", Then your not as experienced, as knoweldgeable as others who may know how much it is hurting people. These people have more of a right to judge wether the way you derive pleasure is right or wrong.

Live for Truth, not pleasure.

Every example you just stated involves other people and the negative affect it has on them. I agree with every point you made, I don’t buy Nikes, I would never neglect my child and I buy “Fair Trade” products. I think its very telling that not one of your arguments revolves around the issue in hand. Is having promiscuous sex wrong? You yourself can not think of an adverse effect someone being promiscuous has on you or society as a whole.

 

[ALEXDJ]

abortion is not natural, it was not intendend by the natures development, abortion is going agaist nature

 

[PickledGecko]

abortion is not natural, it was not intendend by the natures development, abortion is going agaist nature

So is all healthcare.

 

[Absinthe]

So is all healthcare.

Took the words out my mouth.

Railing against something because it's unnatural is so stupid and hypocritical it's almost funny.

 

[Direwolf]

As is pretty much everything in human society. Just because somethings not natural doesn't make it bad.

 

[short recoil]

abortion is not natural, it was not intendend by the natures development, abortion is going agaist nature

nature does not intend anything with its development.

As such there is no "natural" path to take, only common sense and instincts of how you work.
Its not "natural" to travel in a car.

The abortion against nature argument is very hypocritical.

 

[ríomhaire]

abortion is not natural, it was not intendend by the natures development, abortion is going agaist nature

hippy alert, hippy alert!

 

[ALEXDJ]

hippy alert, hippy alert!

can't believe you acually cut me

good job, but i don't like to really think of myself as a hippy, just a pothead

 

[ALEXDJ]

but come on guys, abortion just takes away the responsobility behind sex, that's why there are so many young girls who are sluts, and wide spread of std's

 

[OCybrManO]

I'm an agnostic too for your information and please don't tell me you're a vegetarian. I have 1 message for vegetarians, plants are alive too, if you don't want to eat something that was once alive eat a rock (unless it's a fossil)
The most a cow can benafit a society is as beef (I don't agree with killing them young, no veil for me) but a baby can be a huge number of things.

You know the difference between a plant and an animal with a brain. Don't play dumb. It's not the fact that something is "alive" that makes people not want to eat it... it's the fact that animals have brains, they can think, they can feel, and they try to preserve their own lives when in danger. They have the mental capacity of a small child... and, I don't know about you, but I don't like to eat babies. If the capacity to think and process information still isn't enough to warrant living what is it about humans that makes them special and above being used for food, in your opinion?

Also, in response to firemachine69, I know that at least the American Dietetic Association's 1997 (I think that was the year) research would disagree with the statement that vegetarians can't get enough protein... and, IIRC, Omega-5 fatty acids can be found in things like vegetable oils (specifically soy and corn) and walnuts. If 6-10% of the people in the US are living as vegetarians (and in rather good physical condition, from my experience) I would consider it a viable option.

 

[short recoil]

but come on guys, abortion just takes away the responsobility behind sex, that's why there are so many young girls who are sluts, and wide spread of std's

Well or you could do what i do and decide to never have sex in my life.
That way you dont have to worry about abortion, std's, keeping a girlfriend happy e.t.c e.t.c e.t.c

I mean what is the advantage in having a child, it dosn't extend your life and when you are dead whatever happens to it does not matter, cos you are dead.

 

[dart321]

I see - so its important to know whether its a 'good rape' or a 'bad rape'....

dude don't go into politics. You would have just been lynched on the evening news after saying that at a press conference......

I never said anything about "good rapes" or "bad rapes". You're putting words in my mouth. What, exactly, don't you agree with in my statement? You don't believe certain people can deal with a dramatic event better than others and therefore move on with their lives? You don't agree with the fact that, while ALL rapes are horrible, they do have degrees of severity?

 

[MilkMan12]

You would kill that childs ability to live? What kind of life do you think that child would have with a mother who cant do anything nor knows how to do anything?

It would just end up screwing that kid for life and thats not fair to the potential kid.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

No, what I’m saying is, when 2 people have sex it has no affect on anyone else. It is no better or worse for you or me or society for people to remain virgins or to become sluts."

This is my POINT You can't say that two people having sex has no affect on anyone else because your too ignorant to make a decision like that. "when 2 people have sex it has no affect on anyone else." This is a blantant assumption, for you to say something like this and be confident that it is true, it would require you to have the full knowledge and experience of how those 2 people having sex may or may not effect others and themselves.
This is what i was saying about the nike shoes and the banannas, they are seemingly harmless things to do, but they do effect others...in significantly negative ways. So you can't just say what I'm (or they are) doing isn't effecting anyone because you don't know or havent been through enough to make a statement like that. The reality is, that as long as you exist, you effect the world around you, just as it, effects you.

In the particular case of two people having sex, it is again the same situation, you can't say that they aren't harming anyone because you're too ignorant to make a statement like that. I mean who knows? maybe some 13 year girl who admires one of the two people having sex hears about what she did, so she does it too...not knowing about contraceptives, etc. I don't know what the case may be, there are millions of possibilities about how two people having sex will effect others, my point is that you can't assume that it doesnt effect anybody. The world just doesnt work that way.

Even in the case that it may not effect anybody, or may not effect anybody significantly in a negative way, what about the two people invovled? Do they really know whats best for themselves? Do they have the full knowledge and experience of what it is like to give birth, or have an abortion? Or end up being resposible for a child you never really wanted? I mean 13 year olds don't really know about the consequences of becoming pregnant. Or take a little kid whos going for a vaccination. He doesnt want the needle, and him not getting the needle (supposedly) isnt going to effect anyone else, but he doesnt know that if he doesnt get it, he may contract a disease that could possibly be life threatening for him.
This is why, if you are going to act out of your own will, you need to act responsibly, to ensure the security of yourself, and of those around you. However, when you pursue your own pleasure, you tend to ignore things that may hinder your ability to attain that pleasure. You tend to ignore the truth. Because you don't really care about the truth of your actions or the world around you, What you care about is your own pleasure.

 

[Calanen]

Well or you could do what i do and decide to never have sex in my life.
.

Hmm - doesn't sound like much fun.

 

[bliink]

keeping a girlfriend happy e.t.c

Because all that a girlfriend needs to be happy is sex..

 

[short recoil]

Because all that a girlfriend needs to be happy is sex..

No, but often it seems like all a bloke wants from a relationship.
I'm talking about not having a partner full stop.

If there is no requirement for sex then you cant let anyone down.

 

[bliink]

I'm talking about not having a partner full stop.

If there is no requirement for sex then you cant let anyone down.

You think you could go through life happily without ever having someone special of the opposite sex?

Its kinda hard to avoid that.

 

[short recoil]

You think you could go through life happily without ever having someone special of the opposite sex?

Its kinda hard to avoid that.

Yeah, i've done it so far.......it dosn't mean too much to me.
I mean other than sex a relationship is just like having an intense friendship, i have never felt i loved anyone......call me sad, but its the way i am.

 

[bliink]

i have never felt i loved anyone......call me sad, but its the way i am.

see.. I don't think you're talking about something you fully understand.
One day you'll meet someone you really like, and I mean, really like- and all this you're saying now will shoot out the window

 

[15357]

see.. I don't think you're talking about something you fully understand.
One day you'll meet someone you really like, and I mean, really like- and all this you're saying now will shoot out the window

*imagines HUGE window breaking*


somehow, when i read that, the above came into my mind..... :|

 

[The Dark Elf]

Yeah, i've done it so far.......it dosn't mean too much to me.
I mean other than sex a relationship is just like having an intense friendship, i have never felt i loved anyone......call me sad, but its the way i am.

Listen to her, she knows what she's talking about

One day you'll meet a girl, and even if she just becomes your closest friend, she'll mean the world to you, someone who'd do anything to see you happy and you'd do the same for. Someone you could share all your secrets with and trust completely (and believe me, having that kind of trust is one hell of an amazing feeling). Someone you can talk to about anything atall and both have fun, someone you can do allsorts with and enjoy their company so much. And you'll wonder how you could have been happy without her in your life before that because she's made such a difference to your life, just simply by being there for you.

And at that point you'll probably ask a mod to delete these posts of yours so you don't sound silly hehe.

 

[Absinthe]

Enough govteen. More abortion.

 

[jondy]

Enough govteen. More abortion.

But what about.... the Angst?

 

[PickledGecko]

In the particular case of two people having sex, it is again the same situation, you can't say that they aren't harming anyone because you're too ignorant to make a statement like that. I mean who knows? maybe some 13 year girl who admires one of the two people having sex hears about what she did, so she does it too...not knowing about contraceptives, etc. I don't know what the case may be, there are millions of possibilities about how two people having sex will effect others, my point is that you can't assume that it doesnt effect anybody. The world just doesnt work that way.

So by that rationale, churches preach a message of religion, religion can influence people to become extremists, extremists turn into and recruit terrorists. So we should ban all worship of religion to stop terrorists? Do you see how ridiculous your argument is once we are talking about something you gain enjoyment from.

Lets see what else we should ban. Democracy creates conflict between 2 parties, this can lead to civil war so democracy should be banned and I should be appointed Dictator of the world.

Promotion of virginity could lead to a nation of people who never want to have sex, therefore we should stop people remaining virgins so that the country remains populated.

By your world view, that everything can have a negative affect on others means we should, either do nothing, ever or all live with the same outlook on life. Neither of these options are possible.

Is it not better to educate and allow people to make their own decisions?

Take your 13 year old girl situation. If you try and polarise the issue, “you’re a slut and therefore bad, you’re a virgin and therefore good”, you are part of the problem. This attitude creates social groups who define themselves through sex. If a 13 year old wants to be part of the group that listens to a certain type of music, she also inherits a particular attitude towards sex. When I was in school there was a huge outcry when some popstars got pregnant but weren’t married. People said that this would encourage teenage girls to get pregnant on purpose to have a baby as some sort of fashion accessory. Needless to say, this never happened, because unlike you’re example suggests, teenagers do not try to emulate adults. What teenagers do do however, is “fit in” within social groups.

What I suggest is, if teenagers were instilled with the idea that a virgin can be friends with a slut and vice versa, does it not make sense that sex would no longer be a condition of friendship? Therefore teenagers would take on board that “just say no” is a perfectly acceptable option and does not mean being excluded from their peers.

Even in the case that it may not effect anybody, or may not effect anybody significantly in a negative way, what about the two people invovled? Do they really know whats best for themselves? Do they have the full knowledge and experience of what it is like to give birth, or have an abortion? Or end up being resposible for a child you never really wanted?

Life is about making decisions, you can take on board other peoples experiences or advise, or you can do it all by yourself. If you make a bad decision it’s your fault and you will have to live with the consequences. As an adult its up to you to find out what the consequences of your actions are, nobody else’s.

I mean 13 year olds don't really know about the consequences of becoming pregnant.

No of course they don’t, so I hope you agree that teenagers need to be educated on the matter of unprotected sex and its STD/pregnancy risks, yes?

Or take a little kid whos going for a vaccination. He doesnt want the needle, and him not getting the needle (supposedly) isnt going to effect anyone else, but he doesnt know that if he doesnt get it, he may contract a disease that could possibly be life threatening for him.

How can you equate that to sex? Would that same child make the same decision as an adult, or can we agree that children do what they want and adults have the maturity to do things that will benefit, even if they will hurt?

This is why, if you are going to act out of your own will, you need to act responsibly, to ensure the security of yourself, and of those around you. However, when you pursue your own pleasure, you tend to ignore things that may hinder your ability to attain that pleasure. You tend to ignore the truth. Because you don't really care about the truth of your actions or the world around you, What you care about is your own pleasure.

No I don’t and I don’t know anyone who does. You seem to be confusing the majority of people who live their life for enjoyment, but not at the expense of others or their future, with an ignorant, anti-social minority. Just because I hear shouting at one o’clock every Saturday night, does not make me assume that all drinkers are anti-social. I realise that they are a minority, who would be anti-social regardless of their access to alcohol. The vast majority of people who like to drink on the weekend do it responsibly.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

Is it not better to educate and allow people to make their own decisions?

Yeh, education is what everone needs. But you just get taught fuking bullshit these days. Nobody knows shit. Not even me. You know what? You and everybody else in this damn forum can do what ever the hell they want, because I don't care anymore. Go waste your damn time following what you beleive in, let society suck you dry. Your only gonna be a damn battery afterall. If people were really concerned about the truth, they wouldn't waste their time rotting away in front of these fuked up forums. People are so fuking thick. This is the last post I'll ever make in any damn forum again.

 

[Absinthe]

Ciao! :thumbs:

 

[AzzMan]

This world doesn't need anymore people anyways. Wait what are we talking about again?

 

[KoreBolteR]

We should keep Abortion legal.

 

[Sieg]

Agreed.

 

[ríomhaire]

I actually don't mind if it is made legal (in Ireland) or kept legal where-ever but I just don't agree with it, especlialy if the farther gets no say.

 

[KoreBolteR]

I actually don't mind if it is made legal (in Ireland) or kept legal where-ever but I just don't agree with it, especlialy if the farther gets no say.

wtf.. its Illegal in Ireland?

hmm i learn something new everyday.

 

[ALEXDJ]

see.. I don't think you're talking about something you fully understand.
One day you'll meet someone you really like, and I mean, really like- and all this you're saying now will shoot out the window

i've meet one like that, she didn't think the same of me

here is a love story for you

reminds me of a saying i saw: "When we used to be lovers, I loved you with all my heart."

 

[GiaOmerta]

I'm for it. Let's kill our problems. Who needs babies anyways?

 

[ALEXDJ]

something i've heard:

"All the people who vote pro abortion, have already been born."

i love that saying