Real vid of an Apache attack *explicit*

[JonTheCanuck]

anyways, as it stands guy, i'm tired of thinking so long and hard over this. Its been a good debate and i might join in it tomorrow when i get some energy back. As for now, i think i might just browse the forum for some less controversial stuff hehe. I appreciate the fact u guys all kept it civil even tho u guys disagree with me. Shows alot about the forum's maturity level. Alrighty, i'll probably start up again tomorrow hehe.

 

[Top Secret]

I'll be here. And yes, thank you for also keeping it mature.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

If it involves my death, then so be it.

I stand with you, TS.
Perhaps you and I will meet eachother some day, or at least have a couple of drinks. :cheers:

 

[Top Secret]

That would be awesome Ghost. What military are you looking to join, and what service?

 

[GhostValkyrie]

That would be awesome Ghost. What military are you looking to join, and what service?

I'm already in the NAVY. Signed up for 5 years.
After Basic*beginning May 24th* I leave for (HT) Hull Maintenance Technician school. Then, I leave for SEAL training this winter.

EDIT: Though I'm singed up initially for 5 years, I plan to at least sign up for a second term. And will go Reserve, if I don't maintain an active career. Depends on if I really like, it which I'm pretty sure I will.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

well, i finally watched the video, even though i didn't really want to. it's odd, i had seen similar IR video from afghanistan that i found more difficult to watch.. maybe i just knew what to expect. i don't think anything improper was done in regards to the third man. once you make the first decision to fire, i feel like you essentially commit to killing him. you're not firing heavy rounds to wound the guy, and you can't make snap judgments about how long he'll live with the wounds he has (of which you know nothing) and how quickly a medical unit else can get there and whatnot.

what i'm curious about is 1) the aftermath and 2) the first guy to get shot. if they thought these guys were stashing an rpg launcher (the report mentions some sort of tube) or whatever, surely they went to find it afterwards right? what did they find?? the report says nothing about that. and that first guy.. the report says something about intelligence the military definitely knowing something about the identity of these guys. but, just from watching the video, the first guy is on a tractor, and is confronted by one of the truck drivers, then gets up and starts to walk over before he is killed.. i kinda wonder if he was involved with this supposed insurgent operation or was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[magnetmannen]

if u ask me they had it coming, walking around with sylindrical devices out in a deserted field, driving tractors and the like, they had it coming.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

if u ask me they had it coming, walking around with sylindrical devices out in a deserted field, driving tractors and the like, they had it coming.

haha omg thats funny, that deserves a spot on my sig for the time being lol

 

[Lil' Timmy]

if u ask me they had it coming, walking around with sylindrical devices out in a deserted field, driving tractors and the like, they had it coming.

shoot, i do that all the time, except i put my cylindrical devices in a big square box to fool 'em! they'll never catch me (let's hope they're not reading this!)

sometimes i get confronted at the check points:

soldier: how's it going there?
me: i'm cool, sup dog?
soldier: chillin'. iite, you got ne mutha****in' cylindrical devices?
me: naw, but i got this phat box.
soldier:, oh well, that's fine.. move along.
me: theenks!
*illegal activity shortly ensues*

it's all about knowing how to deal with these people.

note: this post has been a joke, in the vein of magnetmannen's (what i assume to be) sarcastic post. if the mods find it insensitive to the dead, i won't fret if it's deleted.

 

[MrMethane]

all those post u deleted of mine too, u could have just edited it and closed the thread u know

LOL, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with waedoe on this one.

 

[azz0r]

Forget the explosions, those spear pictures ARE GROSS

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I think its safe to say that we dont know all the facts. The pilots obviously made a choice they felt was necessary. Yes they were calm about it, but im sure that there are times when the soldiers think about what they have done and it makes them sad.

I dont know about America, but someone said the military trains soldiers to kill and nothing else. They said the soldiers are made to believe that the enemy is some kind of monster. Well i know for a fact that isnt true in the UK and i doubt its true in the US. Soldiers are trained to follow orders, but also to think. A dumb soldier is useless, and a soldier who fights without regards to human life is not only dangerous, but has no place in any western army i can think of.

Top Secret, you might say you would die rather than have your freedom. But consider what those soldiers have been through. They live in a squalor, have fought in a horrible war in the worst conditions. Their will is destroyed, are they really going to be ready to run from their commanders? What about the families of the soldiers....would they want to run from them too? Would they really want their wives and children to have ot lose their father? Because if they run thats what they know will happen.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I can't believe some of the opinions you lot have. Thats my opinion.

They are human lives for gods sake. There is no question that they are the enemy, but they are still human lives. At least have some compasion. If I was in the millitary, which I have been considering as a future carreer if all else fails. Then I would probably quit if I had to kill an unarmed man who possed no threat to me or anybody else. I could not live with myself.

That injured man might have had a family. He might have been fighting because he had to and he had no choice. Or that he was sooo filled up of propaganda he didn't know truth from saddams lies.
Don't you remember that an awefull lot of Iraqi soldiers surrendered as soon as they got the chance.

As for killing him to put him out of his missery. How on earth could they tell how injured he was. Its not like they could see his wounds is it. And I don't care what you say. I for one would rather be given the chance to live.



Anyway yes, we don't know the facts. Which is why we should'nt just say they did the right thing. Or the wrong. Maybe they should have killed him. I don't know.
But please don't defend them when one perfectly possible conclusion is that they really should'nt have killed him.



Thats my opinion.

 

[Dedalus]

to be honest, the soldiers got the order to finish him off from their commander. so i'm assuming their commander is a tactical thinking person and probably has a lot of experience in combat. so he would see it as a tactical situation, two enemies have been taken down and one is injured, but he could still detonate or launch whatever device they were working on. so i guess the commander made a split second tactical decision. the solider was just following orders which is what soldiers do, you can't have a go at them for that. the thing you have to remember about war is that the enemy could do anything. they could unleash a new and unseen device, they could use brand new never before seen tactics...a good commander has to be able to account for these things. so this commander probably weighed everything up in a split second and made his call. i don't agree with any sort of forced death or killing but if you just seal that situation off from the rest of the world, make it the apache, the commander and those three men...then you can see that there really was no other logical route they could've taken after wounding him. putting him out of his misery is a really childish and stupid comment to make.

i felt really depressed after seeing that video, but you do have to realise that this is the nature of war. this is what people sign up for.

 

[Letters]

I, personally, am glad that we don't have a millitary that is constantly thinking 'oh my God, I really don't won't to shoot him... should I? *shoots* Oh I'm so sorry! I really wish I hadn't done that. I quit." ... which seems to be what some of you would do...

 

[Sprafa]

The art of war is to not to feel regret for the enemy's death upon victory

spamspamspam

BadgerEDIT: Spellcheck

 

[Sprafa]

feel regret!!! feel regret damn it!!! Can a mod change it !!!
And it's not Sin Tzu, I would remember it. That guy is uber famous!

 

[ComradeBadger]

Done

I'm pretty sure it's Sun Tzu

 

[ray_MAN]

Wow... My friend said it was funny and I called him a "Saddist fool" and I hung up with him.... I feel bad...

 

[Sprafa]

Sin Tzu or Sun Tzu ?
Godamn it !! You all got me confused now!!!

 

[Murray_H]

Sin Tzu or Sun Tzu ?
Godamn it !! You all got me confused now!!!

Lol you brought Sin into it, the other 2 were talking about Sun :frog:

 

[Top Secret]

That's what made it so depressing for me: that our country (me being an American) would so willingly go to war, based on falsehoods and lies, and support a president who has done so many terrible things.

]

1. Shut up. Not all were 'lies'. You know that we found 30 pits with over 100,000 bodies in each one of them right?
2. I said it once, I'll say it again. Some people are born into shit lives. Natural Selection. MAYBE those three soldiers couldn't have escaped. But they could have tried.

Top Secret, you might say you would die rather than have your freedom.

No no, I would die for freedom.

 

[Dedalus]

you'd die for the freedom of who exactly? the freedom of your own people? probably. the freedom of the people of iraq??? would you die if people in england were being slaughtered and enslaved? would you die for people in another country? i don't think so. because what you are is patriotic, (and apologies in advance) but patriots pretty much make me want to throw my guts up into a gutter. i'm glad you love your country, just don't be foolish about it.

anyway to the above query, that would definitely be Sun Tzu. although back then when he wrote those, battle and war was a little different to how it is now. those were chivalrous times and one can only assume that they didn't go over to some foreign country to spread the word of the shogun and the samurai forcibly.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I have allways said Patriotism seems to cause nothing but trouble these days.
And at last I have found someone who agrees...



I mean it is fine to be proud of your country and to fight for it. But not to the extent of listening to everything your leaders tell you and doing exactly as your told.
Where is free will when you are tought at school that you must allways server your own country over anyone elses.



Here in Britain I think alot of our public hold a healthy dislike to the government. And it does an excelent job of making sure they don't do anything irrational without very good reason.




Too tired to continue. Bye bye.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

]

1. Shut up. Not all were 'lies'. You know that we found 30 pits with over 100,000 bodies in each one of them right?
2. I said it once, I'll say it again. Some people are born into shit lives. Natural Selection. MAYBE those three soldiers couldn't have escaped. But they could have tried.



No no, I would die for freedom.

u realize that those pits with bodies were the remains of curds which the american government encouraged to uprise against saddam and said in doing so the american army would assist, which they didn't. The US army sat back while the curds were slaughtered. That is a lie.

 

[Murray_H]

I never really seen the point in being strongly patriotic, you salute your flag every day, recite your national anthem, bash anyone who says one word against your country, fight for your country and die for it. Why? Where does it get you?

 

[JonTheCanuck]

I have allways said Patriotism seems to cause nothing but trouble these days.
And at last I have found someone who agrees...



I mean it is fine to be proud of your country and to fight for it. But not to the extent of listening to everything your leaders tell you and doing exactly as your told.
Where is free will when you are tought at school that you must allways server your own country over anyone elses.



Here in Britain I think alot of our public hold a healthy dislike to the government. And it does an excelent job of making sure they don't do anything irrational without very good reason.




Too tired to continue. Bye bye.

well said. U shouldn't let patriotism be your justification over irrational actions.

 

[Top Secret]

You know, I don't recall us telling Iraq to mass murder the Kurdish people. Nor do I recall us telling them to use Chemical weapons on the Kurds. The US is currently helping in the Kurdish people locate these mass graves created by Iraq. Saying the US had anything to do with them directly is just foolish.

 

[Pauly]

wow...those 30 mm cannons are pretty powerful weapons!

 

[Top Secret]

Where is free will when you are tought at school that you must allways server your own country over anyone elses.

I was never told to 'always serve my country over anyone elses' I simply choose to do so. If I walked down to my local city hall and held up a sign that said "I hate the USA" no one could do anything about it. But I wouldn't do that because I love my country.

 

[Pauly]

i watched it again,....and the iraqis dont seem to mind the chopper in the beginning...they are walking casually.. weird...i would think they would be running away....or running behin the truck or somethin

 

[Jhahn2k4]

That is ****ing scary. I have extremely low blood pressure in my head right now.. I feel really screwed up now.

 

[Top Secret]

you'd die for the freedom of who exactly? the freedom of your own people? probably. the freedom of the people of iraq??? would you die if people in england were being slaughtered and enslaved? would you die for people in another country? i don't think so. because what you are is patriotic, (and apologies in advance) but patriots pretty much make me want to throw my guts up into a gutter. i'm glad you love your country, just don't be foolish about it.

Don't judge before you see. I would die for England if you were being slaugherted. I don't believe in just 'freedom for me', but also most other people who share much the same thoughts as me. There is one type of people I hate, and those are people who hurt others because of religious reasons. Now, I'm not saying all people of a certain religeon are out to kill people. Muslims, for example, aren't all suicidal freaks. I know a few people who are American Muslims and you know what? They are as American as I am. Apology not accepted. Nationalism has more ups than downs. As for being 'foolish' about it, loving your country isn't foolish. I would die for most people, which is why I am going to join the Marine Scout Snipers.

 

[Jhahn2k4]

Man, I practically fainted.. I can't watch that again..

 

[SnowBall]

The third guy was wounded and he killed him anyway... That was very sick. This is why if there's a draft I'm leaving this country.

So you think its better to leave him there wounded to just die? You cant fit a wounded guy into an Apache, and I doubt it would have done any good to have a medic there. After all, they were using 30mm ammo, and if your hit by that chances are you lost something important and your gonna die. I say the best mode of action was to acctually put him out of his misery. If you were in that position you would probibly want to die too.

 

[MrWhite]

Oh shit, that was sick... and this is coming from a guy who watched a video of a human being getting his head cut off alive with a hunting knife... I mean yeah that was sick too.

Heh... I watched this coming off of a bad acid trip, but wow... so much about this war makes me sick.

Granted they may have had hostile intent, but I don't wanna get into it all, just... everything, the death, the hate, the feelings on both sides of this.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

You know, I don't recall us telling Iraq to mass murder the Kurdish people. Nor do I recall us telling them to use Chemical weapons on the Kurds. The US is currently helping in the Kurdish people locate these mass graves created by Iraq. Saying the US had anything to do with them directly is just foolish.

George Bush Senior told the kurds to uprise against saddam's regime and said that in doing so, the United States would help them overthrow the Iraqis. When the kurds complied, US sat back while they were slaughtered by the iraqi army. You've probably never heard of this tho as yur main news source would probably be CNN which is all pro-american and wouldn't show anything that might be *gasp* negative about America.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

I can't believe some of the opinions you lot have. Thats my opinion.

They are human lives for gods sake. There is no question that they are the enemy, but they are still human lives. At least have some compasion. If I was in the millitary, which I have been considering as a future carreer if all else fails.

I certainly hope you don't live in the US, because I damn sure don't want you in my military, coward. You should join because you want to, not because you want to mooch off the Govt. because you can't make it on your own steam.

BTW: They could've re-grouped at a later time, or had armaments hidden to the naked eye. In war, those chances cannot be taken. Don't tell me about how you wouldn't kill if you were in the field, that makes me sick. You'd probably bomb your commanding officer's tent before shoot the enemy, like that one guy, right? Yeah, I probably am right. It makes me sick to think of all the scumbags who degrade our military because they want college payed for, or because they can't keep a job.
Join someone elses military, but don't join mine.

Saddam was Hitler Lite. The soldiers that were against him should've risen up, or done something. You can either be a coward and live in fear, or be a man and do your duty. Before I felt sorry for those men forced into the military over there, but now I don't. They could've done something, they could've gone AWOL and joined the resistence! But, instead they participated in and witnessed Saddam's oppression.

I don't give a f*ck about those people in the video. I'm glad they're dead, less f*cking scumbags breathing up air that could fill the lungs of an innocent child.

You sit here and so bravely defend the criminal, yet you leave the victim in the dark. You people protest Camp X-Ray, yet you never protested Saddam...nor did you people ever protest any dictatorship. That's why I think you're all a bunch of immature anarchists. A bunch of children, or adults who fail to accept responsibility.
You defend Saddam and his henchmen. The same type of people who hate Police Men. Ha! When a friend of yours is raped or killed, who do you think is going to find the bad guy?
You're messed up. You need to understand where the line is drawn, and when it is crossed.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

I certainly hope you don't live in the US, because I damn sure don't want you in my military, coward. You should join because you want to, not because you want to mooch off the Govt. because you can't make it on your own steam.

BTW: They could've re-grouped at a later time, or had armaments hidden to the naked eye. In war, those chances cannot be taken. Don't tell me about how you wouldn't kill if you were in the field, that makes me sick. You'd probably bomb your commanding officer's tent before shoot the enemy, like that one guy, right? Yeah, I probably am right. It makes me sick to think of all the scumbags who degrade our military because they want college payed for, or because they can't keep a job.
Join someone elses military, but don't join mine.

Saddam was Hitler Lite. The soldiers that were against him should've risen up, or done something. You can either be a coward and live in fear, or be a man and do your duty. Before I felt sorry for those men forced into the military over there, but now I don't. They could've done something, they could've gone AWOL and joined the resistence! But, instead they participated in and witnessed Saddam's oppression.

I don't give a f*ck about those people in the video. I'm glad they're dead, less f*cking scumbags breathing up air that could fill the lungs of an innocent child.

You sit here and so bravely defend the criminal, yet you leave the victim in the dark. You people protest Camp X-Ray, yet you never protested Saddam...nor did you people ever protest any dictatorship. That's why I think you're all a bunch of immature anarchists. A bunch of children, or adults who fail to accept responsibility.
You defend Saddam and his henchmen. The same type of people who hate Police Men. Ha! When a friend of yours is raped or killed, who do you think is going to find the bad guy?
You're messed up. You need to understand where the line is drawn, and when it is crossed.

you're a moderator yet u still send out insults to forum members? Way to lead by example. You're out of line Ghost, and what u said is extremely offensive.

 

[Murray_H]

I don't give a f*ck about those people in the video. I'm glad they're dead, less f*cking scumbags breathing up air that could fill the lungs of an innocent child.

Way to set an example mr moderator sir :upstare: