Should the government sponsor gay pride events?

[gh0st]

I was listening to the Michael Medved show today, and the topic was this.

Florida County Banned from Acknowledging Gay Pride
06.17.05

By Ross von Metzke

(Tampa, FL) — Hillsboro County Commissioner Ronda Storms vowed last week to push for a county policy banning local libraries from promoting Gay and Lesbian Pride Month, and at this week’s commissioners meeting, took that fight further.
Storms convinced the majority of her fellow commissioners to approve a ban preventing the county from even acknowledging the existence of gay pride month. A 5-1 vote (one commissioner was not in the room for the vote) prevents the county from recognizing pride as an actual event.

Storms followed that vote with a vote requiring the ban could only be overturned on a super-majority vote – 5-2. The absent commissioner, Ken Hagan, returned for this vote and it passed 6-1.

On both votes, commissioner Kathy Castor argued that it is inappropriate for the government to condone discrimination.

Despite numerous pleas from gay rights advocated, according to the St. Petersburg Times, both votes were passed with less than five minutes discussion, almost unheard of in county policy meetings. Observers said Storms made no bones about her agenda going into the meeting.

According to a report from the Times, the initial vote played out like this:

Storms: “I move that we adopt a policy that Hillsborough County government abstain from acknowledging, promoting or participating in gay pride recognition and events.”

Castor: “I think it's inappropriate for government to promote discrimination.” At this point, Commissioner Brian Blair checked the wording and moved for a vote. It passed.

When questioned after the vote about whether libraries would be allowed to display books by gay and lesbian authors or set up gay and lesbian book displays, Storms would only comment that she believes the language of the ban is clear. Storms would only elaborate that the ban would not prevent people from using the library “because of your sexual orientation.”

Upon conclusion of an open forum discussion following the vote, an attorney for the National Center for Lesbian Rights immediately pledged to file a lawsuit contending the policy violates free speech and equal protection rights for gays and lesbians.

So what do you think? Personally, though the article is insanely biased to the point of not being journalism, I feel that the government SHOULD promote neutrality - aka, I dont think the government should promote or participate in gay pride events - one of the reasons I oppose gay marriage.

 

[Feath]

In what way is it biased?

 

[gh0st]

The wording used. Theres no "ban" going on.

 

[CptStern]

yes .....but you're just inviting hate/bigotry and eventual closure

 

[diluted]

Bigoted politicians passing bigoted laws in America? Say it ain't so!

 

[gh0st]

yes .....but you're just inviting hate/bigotry and eventual closure

I dont see why. Its really the same justification used for the separation of church and state. The gay community is one with a very obvious agenda, one that the government shouldnt support. When we look at the kind of pride events that happen in, say Philadelphia or San Francisco, its out of control. Big ass dildos, simulated sex and so forth - something that shouldnt be paid for out of the states (and my) coffers.

 

[Razor]

America always seems to take 2 steps forward and then turn and run at the first sight of doing something right for a change.

It is about time that gay people and lesbians started marching and protesting and making their voices heard outside government buildings, and idon't mean a bunch of gay men dressed in pink dresses.

 

[CptStern]

"Storms convinced the majority of her fellow commissioners to approve a ban preventing the county from even acknowledging the existence of gay pride month"


bigotry



Castor: “I think it's inappropriate for government to promote discrimination.”


:thumbs:

 

[Apos]

"Its really the same justification used for the separation of church and state."

SoCas means that libraries have to deny that churches exist?

 

[jonbob]

The government should not sponser (and by extension promote) an event, but should not obstruct others from doing so. If someone wants to put up posters on a public noticeboard about gay pride month then they should not be barred from doing so in favour of an anti-abortion meeting.

As for a library I am undecided; as a place of knowledge and enlightenment they have a responsibility to promote tolerance for other's way of life and as such a special gay feature might be desirable but only if people opposed to such a display were afforded an oppurtunity for the same. However, the need for a distinct gay section smacks of discrimination in of itself, gay authors have every right to be on the same shelves as all others and forcing them to be displayed seperately implies that they are in some way unworthy.

The only time a book should be categorised "Gay/Lesbian" in any way is when that is the book's topic. As far as I'm concerned, the sexual orientation of an author is irrelevant to the categorisation of his work.

Going slightly off-topic, I've always felt the Government should stay out of such matters entirely; I think from a US perspective that would mark me as a liberal. When did Liberal become such a dirty word in your country?

 

[T.H.C.138]

if it was done tatsefully(which it isn't) I wouldn't have a problem with the gay marches,etc.

but like gh0st said its mostly buttplugs and dildoes

I have gay friends and they HATE the way gays are shown to the world in these marches by the extremists of their group...as pink boa and leather wearing limpwristed,etc etc..

 

[xLostx]

Nothing homosexual should be supported any where.

 

[gh0st]

"Storms convinced the majority of her fellow commissioners to approve a ban preventing the county from even acknowledging the existence of gay pride month"

See the way thats worded is meant to imply some great injustice has been committed. The COUNTY doesnt acknowledge gay pride month, that doesnt mean anyone else cant. And why should the government sponsor a fictional month?

SoCas means that libraries have to deny that churches exist?

Not at all - when was the last time you went into a library and saw a exhibit on christianity or evangelicalism?

Nothing homosexual should be supported any where.

Get the **** out of the thread.

 

[Razor]

I dont see why. Its really the same justification used for the separation of church and state. The gay community is one with a very obvious agenda, one that the government shouldnt support. When we look at the kind of pride events that happen in, say Philadelphia or San Francisco, its out of control. Big ass dildos, simulated sex and so forth - something that shouldnt be paid for out of the states (and my) coffers.

I would definately agree with that, it's just unfortunate that there are a few people like that ruining it for everyone.

 

[Lemonking]

no they shouldnt

I want my own month where can I sign up?

 

[Kebean PFC]

I don't support Gay/Lesbian pride month. IMHO it is a load of malarky! Where is Straight pride month? I support gay/lesbian marrages, but not what they are doing now which has been posted before.

The government should not support it, but they should acknowledege some things. For example, if they want to go and hang banners promoting thier parade off of streetlamps, I say go ahead. But when they want government support or acknowledgement of Gay Pride month, i think they should shove off.

Ahh America, serving the minority <sigh>...

 

[gh0st]

The government should not support it, but they should acknowledege some things. For example, if they want to go and hang banners promoting thier parade off of streetlamps, I say go ahead. But when they want government support or acknowledgement of Gay Pride month, i think they should shove off.

I just think there shouldnt be a situation like in Philly, where the government actually PAYS for special interest events. I say that the gay community should have their parades and events but the government should not support, acknowledge, or PAY for it in any way.

 

[seinfeldrules]

August is anti Gay pride month. Now give me money for a parade and free advertisement.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I don't understand what's going on here.

It's a ban on government paying for a gay pride event? Or a ban on things being shown or something?

 

[CptStern]

...you're just inviting hate/bigotry and eventual closure

QFE ... :|

 

[gh0st]

I don't understand what's going on here.

It's a ban on government paying for a gay pride event? Or a ban on things being shown or something?

What the council in this county passed basically forbids government participation, intervention, and so forth, in gay pride events and in the general community at large. Ipso facto, its a "neutrality" agreement, one which the government should have for all races, religions, colors, groups, and so forth.

QFE ... :|

Excuse me? Aside from one lamer this threads been pretty reasonable, I think. People may disagree with you but that doesnt make them bigoted.

 

[CptStern]

And why should the government sponsor a fictional month?

a fictionaly month? it's ONE day not a month ..hence: gay pride day


oh and why do you believe it's "fictional" ...is the the gay rights movement not valid enough for you? should we forget that there are still many barriers for people based on their sexual orientation? the hate and intolerance in this thread alone proves that their battle is nowhere near over

 

[gh0st]

a fictionaly month? it's ONE day not a month ..hence: gay pride day

http://www.nwhp.org/events/gay-lesbian-pride/history-of-pride-month.html

1. A fictional month. It, infact, is a day. I'm not sure what orifice you pulled gay pride day out of, but there is a month associated with it, it just so happens it was this one. I just realized there's no 2.

oh and why do you believe it's "fictional" ...is the the gay rights movement not valid enough for you? should we forget that there are still many barriers for people based on their sexual orientation? the hate and intolerance in this thread alone proves that their battle is nowhere near over

No. It isnt valid enough for me. We've been through this in many a past thread, I wont pursue the argument here. However, "intolerant", in your mind, is simply not agreeing with you. What is "tolerance" cptstern? Not giving a special interest their holiday? This has nothing to do with what they should or should not be able to do, its relevance is within the government and its relation to the event.

 

[CptStern]

What the council in this county passed basically forbids government participation, intervention, and so forth, in gay pride events and in the general community at large. Ipso facto, its a "neutrality" agreement, one which the government should have for all races, religions, colors, groups, and so forth.

Excuse me? Aside from one lamer this threads been pretty reasonable, I think. People may disagree with you but that doesnt make them bigoted.

bigoted:

August is anti Gay pride month. Now give me money for a parade and free advertisement.

bigoted:

I don't support Gay/Lesbian pride month. IMHO it is a load of malarky! Where is Straight pride month? I support gay/lesbian marrages, but not what they are doing now which has been posted before.

Ahh America, serving the minority <sigh>...

bigoted:

if it was done tatsefully(which it isn't) I wouldn't have a problem with the gay marches,etc.

but like gh0st said its mostly buttplugs and dildoes

I have gay friends and they HATE the way gays are shown to the world in these marches by the extremists of their group...as pink boa and leather wearing limpwristed,etc etc..

funny that if we were talking about black people and the words: watermelon, coon, sambo came up people would be yelling racism

 

[CptStern]

What the council in this county passed basically forbids government participation, intervention, and so forth, in gay pride events and in the general community at large. Ipso facto, its a "neutrality" agreement, one which the government should have for all races, religions, colors, groups, and so forth.

Excuse me? Aside from one lamer this threads been pretty reasonable, I think. People may disagree with you but that doesnt make them bigoted.

bigoted:

August is anti Gay pride month. Now give me money for a parade and free advertisement.

bigoted:

I don't support Gay/Lesbian pride month. IMHO it is a load of malarky! Where is Straight pride month? I support gay/lesbian marrages, but not what they are doing now which has been posted before.

Ahh America, serving the minority <sigh>...

bigoted:

if it was done tatsefully(which it isn't) I wouldn't have a problem with the gay marches,etc.

but like gh0st said its mostly buttplugs and dildoes

I have gay friends and they HATE the way gays are shown to the world in these marches by the extremists of their group...as pink boa and leather wearing limpwristed,etc etc..

funny that if we were talking about black people and the words: watermelon, coon, sambo came up people would be yelling racism

 

[Foxtrot]

bigoted:





bigoted:





bigoted:






funny that if we were talking about black people and the words: watermelon, coon, sambo came up people would be yelling racism

Ignorant
Double standard.
Take a step back Stern and read what you posted.

 

[gh0st]

If you think those are bigoted or hate-filled you must have had a very sheltered childhood. Peoples first-hand accounts of these events is hate-filled? Should they candy coat it for you, and make it more tolerant? "Mystery rods"? Why not cut the crap?

 

[T.H.C.138]

**** you stern..

you only read what you want to out of peoples posts..a line here a line there...

my gay friends have said the same thing that I posted...

so now what do you say to that?

am I still bigoted even though I have gay friends and my girlfriend is mixed black and white?

and I wouldn't mind if she was full black!

stern you are the bigot around here IMO..

 

[gh0st]

stern you are the bigot around here IMO..

He certainly isnt tolerant of anyone elses opinions but his own. Enough of this though, on topic please.

 

[jonbob]

Should the government be uninvolved in this sort of thing completely and only step in to quash discrimination? Surely people are entitled to whatever small-minded opinions they have?

Tolerance is not acceptance; I may not approve of the BNP (point in fact I would rather like to see someone push them into a meat mincer), but I tolerate them and defend their right to say what they want to say.

 

[T.H.C.138]

sorry gh0st!! you know how it can be somedays!

on-topic,no problem..

I feel that gay organizations should pay for the marches and all of their events themselves as should ANY "special interest" group/org. in America..

the government doesn't pay for skate contests..the skate companies/skaters do..and I consider skaters as a "special interest" group/org. as well as paintballers,etc.

not everyone is into these activities and/or events..so why should everyone have to pay for them?

you know it wouldn't be the gov. paying, it would be all of the taxpayers who foot the bill..

 

[jonbob]

If I was organising such an event I could not accept government funding while keeping my dignity intact. The goverment should be impartial; working against the discrimination of the people but promoting no agenda bar its own.

 

[CptStern]

If you think those are bigoted or hate-filled you must have had a very sheltered childhood. Peoples first-hand accounts of these events is hate-filled?

they were there? what exactly did they witness? gays dressed up in colourful clothes or gays openly having sex with dildos? ..because those are 2 completely different scenarios .... the bulk of you are implying the latter scenario ..yet no one has cited any sources

if there were any such incidents, they would be well documented because the people in question would have been arrested for indecency

 

[gh0st]

they were there? what exactly did they witness? gays dressed up in colourful clothes or gays openly having sex with dildos? ..because those are 2 completely different scenarios .... the bulk of you are implying the latter scenario ..yet no one has cited any sources

Worldnet Daily article

Philadelphia's Gay Pride parade, a city-funded event that included simulated sex acts on some of the floats.

one float at the parade Sunday featured women, partially dressed in tight leather, bending over with their buttocks exposed and being spanked with hands, whips, and other objects.

despicable that the police refused to arrest those engaged in the lewd behavior, even after we pointed out the obvious to them

Even in Canada your police look the other way, says one PROGRESSIVE WOMENS ORGANIZATION

was that of a completely naked woman who cavorted with abandon in the parade while the Toronto police deliberately looked the other way. Although toplessness may no longer be a criminal offence, the total public nudity exhibited by this woman was clearly a violation of the Criminal Code.

THIS is why state-funded gay pride events are wrong.

if there were any such incidents, they would be well documented because the people in question would have been arrested for indecency

You'd think, but the media is so much on the side of the special interest groups that its not really covered. And no, they are not arrested for indecency. I could post many more articles here, would you like to see them?

Its important to know that I have absolutely NO problem with ANYBODY marching in any parade. My problem comes with government recognition.

 

[dys4iK]

Absolutely not.

The right to march does not turn into the right to suck money out of the government.

 

[CptStern]

"Philadelphia's Gay Pride parade, a city-funded event that included simulated sex acts on some of the floats"


interesting:


"Although toplessness may no longer be a criminal offence..."



proof nudity isnt all that big a deal for us canadians



this follows:

"... the total public nudity exhibited by this woman was clearly a violation of the Criminal Code."



nudity, not openly having sex as some of you claimed ....and do you really think a fully naked woman is such a big crime? maybe someone should have thrown a robe around her and said "wont someone think of the children!!!"



ironic how that site you linked to has this in their mission statement:


"Before women can have equality with men, we must first have equality among ourselves and this means a tolerance and respect for the differing views of other women."


...as long as they're fully clothed :E

seems they're not very good at following their own code of ethics

 

[gh0st]

"Philadelphia's Gay Pride parade, a city-funded event that included simulated sex acts on some of the floats"

Christ. What does it add to the community stern? Oh well they werent ACTUALLY having sex. Just SIMULATING it with state dollars. Yeah. Great. Waste Saskatchewans money on simulated sex in parades, not mine. I mean this has to be the most preposterous thing you've ever said stern, it just gets better and better. SIMULATED sex! Well shit thats ok! I'll just go up to some big ass bikers girlfriend and dry hump her and spank her with whips and it will be JUST GREAT because its not ACTUAL sex its just SIMULATED.

oh and you forgot this part:


"Although toplessness may no longer be a criminal offence..."

Section 173 of the Criminal Code prohibits indecent exposure, S.174 prohibits nudity in a public place and S. 175 prohibits indecent exhibitions in a public place.​

Dont trip yourself over the big words. Fact is this shit that cannot be enjoyed by 90% of the world SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A DIME BY THE GOVERNMENT - EVER.

this follows:

"... the total public nudity exhibited by this woman was clearly a violation of the Criminal Code."



nudity, not openly having sex as some of you claimed ....and do you really think a fully naked woman is such a big crime? maybe someone should have thrown a robe around her and said "wont someone think of the children!!!"

You are missing the point, as usual. The point is, this behavior shouldnt be paid for in part by governments. Do you understand now? If a woman walked down the street showing her saggy tits to everybody she'd be arrested - if, however, they are in a gay parade, they are not. Later in that article the officer says that they are not subject to the same laws. Ah here it is

In the past, not wanting to harm relations with the broader gay community, the police have chosen not to intervene on their own initiative and make arrests of fully naked people within the Pride parade route or street festival site.​

"Before women can have equality with men, we must first have equality among ourselves and this means a tolerance and respect for the differing views of other women."

seems they're not very good with following their own POV

Maybe you should check your point of view. They obviously see the necessity of decency, especially when you are trying to get your point across and have an agenda to fulfill

 

[CptStern]

Christ. What does it add to the community stern? Oh well they werent ACTUALLY having sex. Just SIMULATING it with state dollars. Yeah. Great. Waste Saskatchewans money on simulated sex in parades, not mine. I mean this has to be the most preposterous thing you've ever said stern, it just gets better and better. SIMULATED sex! Well shit thats ok! I'll just go up to some big ass bikers girlfriend and dry hump her and spank her with whips and it will be JUST GREAT because its not ACTUAL sex its just SIMULATED.

dont go

Section 173 of the Criminal Code prohibits indecent exposure, S.174 prohibits nudity in a public place and S. 175 prohibits indecent exhibitions in a public place.​

Dont trip yourself over the big words. Fact is this shit that cannot be enjoyed by 90% of the world SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A DIME BY THE GOVERNMENT - EVER.

how is the event responsible for what an individual does? if a participant spits on the street should the parade organizers get the fine or the individual participant?

You are missing the point, as usual. The point is, this behavior shouldnt be paid for in part by governments.

how is the event itself responsible for what an indivdual does?

Do you understand now? If a woman walked down the street showing her saggy tits to everybody she'd be arrested

no they wouldnt

- if, however, they are in a gay parade, they are not. Later in that article the officer says that they are not subject to the same laws. Ah here it is

In the past, not wanting to harm relations with the broader gay community, the police have chosen not to intervene on their own initiative and make arrests of fully naked people within the Pride parade route or street festival site.​

on their own initiative: they chose not to prosecute that individual

Maybe you should check your point of view. They obviously see the necessity of decency, especially when you are trying to get your point across and have an agenda to fulfill

how does it affect your life in the least ?

 

[gh0st]

dont go

Easy for you to say. When these events close dozens of streets and clog seattle in an orgy of penises I dont really have a choice but become affected by it. You know what stern, if you dont like the Iraq war, just ignore it. It doesnt effect you, so dont even bother.

how this the event responsible for what an individual does? if a spectator spits on the street should the event get the fine?

Its not... and no, when this kind of behavior is tolerated at the event, the event organizers should not get any money from governments. Its the fact that these events SHOULDNT recieve any money from my tax dollars ever. Is that so hard for you to comprehend? If you want to support them, give the organizers money, not squander our resources on special interests events.

how is the event itself responsible for what an indivdual does?

If you dont get it now, you never will, sorry.

no they wouldnt

Prove it. I've proven that this kind of illegal and gross activity is perpetuated in these events, thus relieving them of any public funds, prove to me that a person walking down the street stark naked wouldnt get arrested.

on their own initiative: they chose not to prosecute that individual

And why not? Perhaps you've never been to any of these kinds of things (I have, Seattle is a hotbed. I dont have a problem with it either, because now things are way more restrained). Its not ONE person walking down the street with their nipple poking out. Take a peek out of your igloo and actually see whats happening for yourself. If you wouldnt let your kid look at naked pictures on the computer, it is a complete double standard to allow these events to waste money.

how does it affect your life in the least ?

How does Iraq affect your life in the least? Its an issue, i have an opinion on it, just like you do.

If you support separation of church and state, you should support seperation of special interest and state.

 

[T.H.C.138]

personally, I would be just as offended seeing "straight" people doing these same types of things..

I don't live THAT far from San Francisco that I don't see what the "extreme gay"(not average) portion of homosexuals act/dress like in PUBLIC on a daily basis..

its not that the fact that they are gay,it is the way they represent themselves and others of their community