Should the government sponsor gay pride events?

[gh0st]

ya but how can you trust that a corporation will sponsor a cultural event based solely on what's good for the public...I mean I could see how say a gay rights group would have a hard time finding mainstream sponsorship ...sorry but I just dont believe corporations should be the vanguard of culture. The government does a far better job of representing all interest groups not just those that are more likely to sell more soap

In an ideal world, yeah the government should sponsor everything from st. patties day parades to gay pride events. Unfortunatly, do you really think the government has (after squandering billions in iraq and other ventures) has the kind of money to pay for EVERYTHING? i dont think they do. in my experience at least, corporations do a fine job of sponsoring parades... typically its reimbursed in advertising/name recognition (eg bon-macys parade). the government is reimbursed anyway because through the corporate level tourism dollars flow though, whether the government sponsors it or not.

 

[MjM]

What a flip flopper.

So first you say that the government should be neutral, what ever that means, and should not support or participate in gay events.

Now your saying in your ideal world the government should sponsor everything from st. patties day to gay pride ...


Hehehe

 

[Foxtrot]

What a flip flopper.

So first you say that the government should be neutral, what ever that means, and should not support or participate in gay events.

Now your saying in your ideal world the government should sponsor everything from st. patties day to gay pride ...


Hehehe

Ideal is very different from real world, but I will let ghost explain.

 

[kirovman]

TBH I'd rather the money be invested in schools to teach acceptance and tolerance for minorities than invest in parades.

Although I'm a strong supporter for diverting funds to a better education.

 

[MjM]

Ideal is very different from real world, but I will let ghost explain.

Pfft, I know the difference between ideal and reality.
But it comes down to ideology, this is simply an ideological debate. Do you agree with the issue or not?

Gh0st is flip flopping. He's also neglected to address the issue of ACKNOWLEDGMENT.

You see this issue is not just about coughing up money, but even more sinister its about the state NOT acknowledging gay pride month.


acknowledging, promoting or participating in gay pride recognition and events

As if this is founded in the real world. Maybe you and Gh0st can go explain to the legislators, that in REALITY there are gays; who have as much right to be acknowledged by the state as any racial or religious group.

In reality this is all about discrimination.

And also, dont BS about money, comming from a country who makes up nearly half the entire worlds weapons spending.

 

[jonbob]

Why should people be forced to 'acknowledge' something they don't agree with.

If a group decides that this month is wear flip flops to work day, good for them. To me it isn't and I'm not going to agree with their point of view. I may recognise that point of view but it's not going to make any difference to me. Just like the 4th of July - Americans may recognise it as Independance Day but to my it's just 04/07, why should I acknowledge it's supposed special status?

 

[Glirk Dient]

Why should the state acknowledge special interest groups and support them? If every single person under that governments ruling agreed with that special interest group then sure...however that is not the case here. The government should have nothing to do in forcing us to "acknowledge" anything is just dumb. Why should we taxpayers fund an event we disagree with? Just because they choose to be different doesn't mean I am going to pay them to assblast in the streets.

 

[MjM]

This is prohibiting citizens advertising the fact it was Gay Pride month in public buildings.

The government is discriminating against its own citizens.

The government isn't trying to force you the citizen to acknowledge anything, but the government should acknowledge its citizens. And to be fair homosexuals aren't even interest groups, considering they are they way they are, not because of a choice they made. you don't go around calling the blacks, a special interest group.

The point is, why block the advertising of this Gay Pride Month, what harm comes from it. Sure they don't have to pay for parades and what not, but it almost seems to be a form of denial.

Also it would be interesting to know what funding they provide to other 'special interest groups'. Because that would prove or disprove if discrimination is occurring. Do they acknowledge religious groups, etc..

 

[Foxtrot]

This is prohibiting citizens advertising the fact it was Gay Pride month.

Wrong they were not prohibiting any advertising of the citizens, just the government.

 

[Glirk Dient]

to be fair homosexuals aren't even interest groups, considering they are they way they are, not because of a choice they made.

It can't be proven yet that homosexuality is genetic(leave that for another topic). However, using your logic should we all go around and parade about diseases or other crap people got when they were born? Hooray, today is the crack baby parade! We could also have paralyzed from birth day, mental retardation awareness week as well as aids aids aids everywhere day!

 

[T.H.C.138]

TBH I'd rather the money be invested in schools to teach acceptance and tolerance for minorities than invest in parades.

Although I'm a strong supporter for diverting funds to a better education.

this man gets my vote

 

[Sulkdodds]

Hooray, today is the crack baby parade! We could also have paralyzed from birth day, mental retardation awareness week as well as aids aids aids everywhere day!

Those are all disorders. Homosexuality is not.

Perhaps from a natural standpoint, it is - homosexuals can't naturally create children. But in this modern world, where gays can actually have children artificially (admittedly needing an egg donor and surrogate mother), it's not the much of an issue. Besides, humanity doesn't need to define itself and define its individual members on what they bring to the gene pool anymore. Culture matters. People matter.

 

[MjM]

Wrong they were not prohibiting any advertising of the citizens, just the government.

I made a few edits, without seeing your reply, but thats seems to be a misquote.

The state government banned the avertising of gay pride month in libraries.

push for a county policy banning local libraries from promoting Gay and Lesbian Pride Month


Discrimination for sure?

 

[CptStern]

It can't be proven yet that homosexuality is genetic(leave that for another topic). However, using your logic should we all go around and parade about diseases or other crap people got when they were born? Hooray, today is the crack baby parade! We could also have paralyzed from birth day, mental retardation awareness week as well as aids aids aids everywhere day!

Just because they choose to be different doesn't mean I am going to pay them to assblast in the streets.

you're a bigot plain and simple

the american medical association DOES NOT classify homosexuality as a mental disorder

It can't be proven yet that homosexuality is genetic

you're implying it's a choice ...no one would choose to be treated different, to be ostrazised from society, to be shunned by their family ...the verdict's not in but the likelihood is that they will find a genetic link (or several)

 

[Sulkdodds]

Just because they choose to be different

By that logic, Glirk, you could decide to become homosexual right now. I'm not calling you gay; but I doubt you could do that. Just sudddenly switch sexuality? How the hell do you choose to be gay? Madness.

 

[Foxtrot]

I don't understand how it isn't a mental disorder, anyone care the explain the reasoning on that?

 

[CptStern]

I don't understand how it isn't a mental disorder, anyone care the explain the reasoning on that?

it doesnt fit any of the criteria of a mental illness ...seriously how anyone can believe they're mentally deficient is beyond me. Personally I chock it up to stupidity ...I guess some people irrationally cling to their medievil sense of morality and for them, there's no room for facts or debate

 

[Foxtrot]

it doesnt fit any of the criteria of a mental illness ...seriously how anyone can believe they're mentally deficient is beyond me. Personally I chock it up to stupidity ...I guess some people irrationally cling to their medievil sense of morality and for them, there's no room for facts or debate

Can't you give any examples of how it isn't a mental disorder though? All you said is that it doesn't fit the mold, why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder
Seems to fit the mold perfectly to me.

 

[Glirk Dient]

the american medical association DOES NOT classify homosexuality as a mental disorder

The only reason it was removed is because homosexuals rallied until they removed it. They weren't going to risk getting bombed by a bunch of fanatics over it.

you're implying it's a choice ...no one would choose to be treated different, to be ostrazised from society

Goths and other losers choose to be shunned. They choose the way they dress and act. They could change and become normal if thay wanted, but they don't.

 

[No Limit]

They could change and become normal if thay wanted, but they don't.

So why is it so hard for you to become normal?

 

[Foxtrot]

So why is it so hard for you to become normal?

Because he chooses not to be, like the homosexuals.

 

[No Limit]

Can't you give any examples of how it isn't a mental disorder though? All you said is that it doesn't fit the mold, why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder
Seems to fit the mold perfectly to me.

By the same token heterosexuals would have a mental disorder because they choose to have sex with women.

 

[CptStern]

Can't you give any examples of how it isn't a mental disorder though? All you said is that it doesn't fit the mold, why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder
Seems to fit the mold perfectly to me.

because it's not all that clearcut because it was established that it wasnt a mental disorder in 1973. From the document:


"For a mental condition to be considered a psychiatric disorder, it should either regularly cause emotional distress or regularly be associated with clinically significant impairment of social functioning. These experts found that homosexuality does not meet these criteria"


in fact they went so far as to label NOT wanting to be a gay a mental disorder (if you're gay to begin with): "ego dystonic homosexuality"


"was recognized as a category for people "whose sexual interests are directed primarily toward people of the same sex and who are either disturbed by, in conflict with, or wish to change their sexual orientation."


source

 

[Foxtrot]

By the same token heterosexuals would have a mental disorder because they choose to have sex with women.

Wrong,

A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others.

 

[No Limit]

Wrong,

So you think homosexuality does all that?

 

[Foxtrot]

So you think homosexuality does all that?

It doesn't have to do all of that, but it certainly does atleast one.

 

[CptStern]

The only reason it was removed is because homosexuals rallied until they removed it. They weren't going to risk getting bombed by a bunch of fanatics over it.

the more you speak the more I'm convinced you're a mental midget ..since when do 374 psychiatists scattered around america bow to public pressure? name one incident where the AMA was attacked by irate homosexuals ...I wouldnt be surprised if right-wing nutbars (such as yourself) threatened to bomb the AMA

Goths and other losers choose to be shunned. They choose the way they dress and act. They could change and become normal if thay wanted, but they don't.

come on, how can you possibly compare sexual orientation with someone's style of clothes or preference in music? you can change your clothes you cant change your sexuality ..just like I'm sure you could just one day say: "for now on I'm gay"

 

[CptStern]

It doesn't have to do all of that, but it certainly does atleast one.

oh dear god can you just take the time to read this:

"For a mental condition to be considered a psychiatric disorder, it should either regularly cause emotional distress or regularly be associated with clinically significant impairment of social functioning. These experts found that homosexuality does not meet these criteria"

 

[Foxtrot]

oh dear god can you just take the time to read this:

"For a mental condition to be considered a psychiatric disorder, it should either regularly cause emotional distress or regularly be associated with clinically significant impairment of social functioning. These experts found that homosexuality does not meet these criteria"

That is what some people claim, but I think they are wrong.

A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others.

I think homosexuality causes a long term change in your feeling, and it can affect thinking and mood and ability to relate to others in some cases.

Homosexuality may not be a "mental disorder" but it is defintly a mental condition.

 

[CptStern]

That is what some people claim, but I think they are wrong.
.

/me rams head into wall


I think I'll rely on what a panel of DOCTORS and PSYCHIATRISTS have concluded rather on how YOU feel personally



facts foxtrot, not guesswork

Homosexuality may not be a "mental disorder" but it is defintly a mental condition.

isnt that the same thing as a disorder?

 

[No Limit]

/me rams head into wall


I think I'll rely on what a panel of DOCTORS and PSYCHIATRISTS have concluded rather on how YOU feel personally



facts foxtrot, not guesswork

I don't know why we waste our time with these people.

All those experts are wrong; foxtrot who (im guessing here) is only a high school student or graduate is right so it doesn't matter what they think. How can you have a debate with these people?

 

[CptStern]

sometimes I really dont know why I bother

 

[Foxtrot]

I don't know why we waste our time with these people.

All those experts are wrong; foxtrot who (im guessing here) is only a high school student or graduate is right so it doesn't matter what they think. How can you have a debate with these people?

There are some experts who disagree with those experts, so you are saying they are wrong?

 

[Gray Fox]

I don't know why we waste our time with these people.

All those experts are wrong; foxtrot who (im guessing here) is only a high school student or graduate is right so it doesn't matter what they think. How can you have a debate with these people?

QFE, I figured that a long time ago.

 

[CptStern]

YES THEY ARE WRONG ...if they were right the AMA would have ruled that it IS a mental disorder ...but they havent because it's freakin self-evident that it IS NOT a mental disorder ..no amount of religious intolerant homophobes are going to change that .........ever

 

[No Limit]

There are some experts who disagree with those experts, so you are saying they are wrong?

Yes. In the Terri Schivo case there were "experts" who claimed she wasn't PVS; these were religious nut cases hired by the family. We learned a couple weeks ago they were lying which is what I could have told you a long time ago. Same applies here. Stern put it very well in the above reply; no amount of religious nut cases, such as yourself, will ever change that.

 

[Foxtrot]

Yes. In the Terri Schivo case there were "experts" who claimed she wasn't PVS; these were religious nut cases hired by the family. We learned a couple weeks ago they were lying which is what I could have told you a long time ago. Same applies here. Stern put it very well in the above reply; no amount of religious nut cases, such as yourself, will ever change that.

I am an athiest dumbass, you are the only nut case here.

 

[Sulkdodds]

A mental illness is a disorder of the brain that results in a disruption in a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others. Mental illness is distinct from the legal concept of insanity.

Homosexuality does none of these things. Lets disect it:

disruption in a person's thinking

Not really. Gay people think exactly as non-gay people do; especially if you choose to seperate 'thinking' from 'sexual drive'. Even if not, I don't think fancying the same sex really counts as a 'disruption'.

disruption in a person's feeling

Gay people feel emotions just like everyone else. If you want to include 'love' under the 'feeling' umbrella then yes, you could argue that since humans are normally heterosexual then it's a disruption. However, I think you'd be wrong. Firstly because loving the same sex is simply a different slant: not a 'disruption' in any way. It doesn't harm lives, it doesn't harm mental health...it's just different.

Secondly because perhaps ten percent of the entire human race is homosexual. That big a percentage can hardly be called a 'disorder'.

disruption in a person's moods

Nope. Homosexuals are in no way different when it comes to moods and emotions.

disruption in a person's ability to relate to others

Of course this is the big one. However, gays are no different when it comes to the dynamics of 'friend' and social relationships: in fact the only difference in sexual relationships is that it's the same sex. Again, I don't see how this can count as a 'disruption'. Just a different way of doing things.

THE IMPORTANT BIT:

Homosexuality is not a mental illness or condition: it is an alternative sexual orientation. That's something compeltely different. You might as well argue that, say, an attraction to dark-haired women over others is also a mental illness - it's the same thing, but less extreme.

 

[Glirk Dient]

http://www.china.org.cn/english/LI-e/9002.htm

From that source, which says homosexuality isn't a mental disease. It is instead a disturbance in sexual psycology. On top of that 6/51 gay people required a psyciatrist.

Well, let's just switch the name and call is something other than a disorder then it's not so bad!

 

[CptStern]

http://www.china.org.cn/english/LI-e/9002.htm

From that source, which says homosexuality isn't a mental disease. It is instead a disturbance in sexual psycology. On top of that 6/51 gay people required a psyciatrist.

Well, let's just switch the name and call is something other than a disorder then it's not so bad!

well the Chinese think it's a disorder then it MUST be true ...oh btw they dont officially recognise autism ....so ya, I can see how they're leading edge when it comes to psychological research :upstare:




btw what is this intense hatred you have of gays? why must you go out of your way to prove that they are mentally disturbed? Your ignorant hate is pretty disgusting if you ask me ...why do you care what other people do with THEIR lives?