Obama declares Gay PRIDE month

15357 said:
No, no, no. You don't get it.

I like freedom. I kinda like democracy. But sometimes they can be counterproductive. Sometimes democracy is used to justify stupid things. Like Hitl
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GODWINS LAW GODWINS LAW
 
The social cohesion is a system of control. Now buy some ****ing pop rocks and drop acid in a local park, like a real kid your age.
 
15357 said:
No, no, no. You don't get it.

I like freedom. I kinda like democracy. But sometimes they can be counterproductive. Sometimes democracy is used to justify stupid things. Like Hitler. Like labor unions.
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hitler was a product of democracy? what exactly does democracy mean in your little world? I'm pretty sure it means something entirely different than what the rest of the world sees as democracy


Numbers said:
So, I am left to wonder, why do we bother with this at all? But democracy is an ideal, a gold standard of political procedure that we must follow. But if it leads to bad things, does that mean democracy is flawed? No, comrades. A thousand times no. WE are the ones that are flawed. We blindly follow demagogues, we go with our heart, we do what is best for ourselves and our friends, instead of the entire country/humanity. Then, if we are to keep democracy functioning, shouldn't we rectify the anomalies in our society?
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yes death marches to siberia, cattle trains to auschwitz, bamboo shoots for ALL!!!



Numbers said:
Sometimes I think that the idea of a technocracy, a government ruled by the scientists who would rely on statistics and SCIENCE to ensure that everyone is benefited, should be implemented. But fundamentally, people are still flawed. A society run by the least flawed people is still flawed.
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have you read 1984? how about a Brave New World? Player Piano? you should probably read these books

Numbers said:
One of the flaws of man is that he cannot accept something alien to him, whether it be a concept, or something more material. It is a fundamental flaw, one that cannot (and truly, should not) be attempted to be rectified.
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except you are dead wrong. man CAN accept something alien to him, if that werent true we'd all be hunting with stone knives and clubs

Numbers said:
The blade of grass that stands out from the rest is not made into a tree, it is cut down. The tree that grow taller and taller than the others only serves to deprive them of sunlight. You see where I'm going with this?
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yes totaslitarianism.

you have it completely wrong. society/humanity/civilization isnt a construct of everybody who ever lived. it's the construct of a select few who rise above the masses and distinguish themselves in some way or other. without newton we might not have stumbled upon the theory of gravity at that point in time. without anyone who's ever worked in a group where there's no one group leader can tell you shit doesnt get done because people are ****ing idiots
 
if numbers came out with a book i'd buy it in a second.
 
StarBob said:
The reason democracy is the gold standard for political systems is that it is has the fundamental function of giving people a choice. However, people suck at choosing things. If one is properly appealing, regardless of their ability to lead and function, they can achieve political power. That's the flaw with democracy.

All of that being said, it's better to choose and choose wrong than to not choose at all. I mean yeah Germany voted Hitler in to power and it was prolly a bad move, but at the time it seemed like the best thing going. Pre-1939 he wasn't like "Hey dudes let's attack everyone we know and kill all da Jews," he was more like "Hey we got effed in the A in WWI, let's get off our backs and do somethin!"

Democracy will always be the posterchild for freedom since the ultimate freedom is choice... no matter what poor choices are made.
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I love it when people take numbers seriously.
 
Sheepo said:
I love it when people take numbers seriously.
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I don't know what to believe anymore. I didn't used to take him seriously either! But it's like that kid who always talks about killing himself. You never know.
 
VirusType2 said:
I don't know what to believe anymore. I didn't used to take him seriously either! But it's like that kid who always talks about killing himself. You never know.
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Very very rarely the veneer drops and you realise he's actually a charming normal chap. He's just the biggest troll this forum has ever had, but I love him for it.
 
Solaris said:
Very very rarely the veneer drops and you realise he's actually a charming normal chap. He's just the biggest troll this forum has ever had, but I love him for it.
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No... that tile goes to Stern.

Even though I disagree with numbers ideologically (freedom to outshine your neighbor is what drives advancement) I've always found Numbers' positions interesting and (mostly) very well mannered and polite.
 
StarBob said:
The reason democracy is the gold standard for political systems is that it is has the fundamental function of giving people a choice. However, people suck at choosing things. If one is properly appealing, regardless of their ability to lead and function, they can achieve political power. That's the flaw with democracy.
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Certainly not the only flaw, but yes.

All of that being said, it's better to choose and choose wrong than to not choose at all. I mean yeah Germany voted Hitler in to power and it was prolly a bad move, but at the time it seemed like the best thing going. Pre-1939 he wasn't like "Hey dudes let's attack everyone we know and kill all da Jews," he was more like "Hey we got effed in the A in WWI, let's get off our backs and do somethin!"
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Lol yeah. :p

Of course, there may have been no way to foresee what Hitler would have done. Sure, German society contributed 100% to the war effort, engaged in wartime production, accepted many things wihtout much dissent, to ensure the survival of Germany. Of course, they failed because Hitler was the only one who called the shots. Hitler, like all men, was flawed (arguably much much more than the average person)..... Perhaps Germany should have consulted more experts in all fields to see if Germany was ready to face the military, economical, technological, and political obstacles that they faced in the road to war.

Ok, maybe Hitler and Nazi Germany isn't such a great example to support my points.

Democracy will always be the posterchild for freedom since the ultimate freedom is choice... no matter what poor choices are made.
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I'm not saying that Democracy being the gold standard of freedom is wrong. I'm saying that despite it, social conflicts continue to disrupt our society, and while disagreements are inevitable, counterproductive dissent should be prevented. For example, the race issue: Equality of all races - this is not a topic worth discussing, and dissenters are obviously sociopathic or seriously misguided, both of which may require rectifying.

CptStern said:
hitler was a product of democracy? what exactly does democracy mean in your little world? I'm pretty sure it means something entirely different than what the rest of the world sees as democracy
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People vote, people make stupid choices, and people suffer for it.

If people knew only how to think.

yes death marches to siberia, cattle trains to auschwitz, bamboo shoots for ALL!!!
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I'm not saying that those methods were very humane, nor useful. I'm just pointing out that prisons don't do much good; for both society and the individual criminal. Perhaps a different approach of behavioral modification could be found, like "therapy", it may be more costly, but we can make them do labor or something.

have you read 1984? how about a Brave New World? Player Piano? you should probably read these books
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Read the first two.

Now, the government in 1984 is clearly dystopian. I don't believe that such a government is ideal, nor is it functionable. A society based on hate of an enemy. That sounds plausible. But eventually the people will wear themselves out. It was an interesting suggestion, nonetheless.

Brave New World - hedonism is not good. Human history as a whole is a story of a grand struggle to survive, with hardships and wars that continue to threaten people. It is the driving force for humanity's progress, and the chemically-enforced hedonism of Huxley's world is detrimental to it. Also human cloning. Unnatural. Should be banned.

except you are dead wrong. man CAN accept something alien to him, if that werent true we'd all be hunting with stone knives and clubs
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Yes, but not as abruptly. Social progress needs to be slow, and steady, so that people don't get left out, or it breeds antagonism.

yes totaslitarianism.

you have it completely wrong. society/humanity/civilization isnt a construct of everybody who ever lived. it's the construct of a select few who rise above the masses and distinguish themselves in some way or other. without newton we might not have stumbled upon the theory of gravity at that point in time. without anyone who's ever worked in a group where there's no one group leader can tell you shit doesnt get done because people are ****ing idiots
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Again, I am all for scientific progress. "Technology will set man free."

Talented men and women, a select few of the entire human race, will bring advancements that will benefit humanity. But social dissent hampers technological progress. I mean, look at stem cell research.

Of course, human cloning, and et cetera should be carefully be banned or regulated, due to the clear ethical and security reasons.

Even though I disagree with numbers ideologically (freedom to outshine your neighbor is what drives advancement) I've always found Numbers' positions interesting and (mostly) very well mannered and polite.
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Um, First of all, thanks. :p

Secondly, I don't mean that everyone should conform in the most literal sense. My position is that while people should be able to, and should strive to, pursue economic and scientific innovation, they should not engage in socially disruptive acts. Crime. Hooliganism. Forcing your religious beliefs unto others (seriously annoying, btw). I'm not saying that we should tell people what to think. I'm saying that we should make sure they act in a coordinated, socio-friendly manner, regardless of their beliefs towards others (like "THEY TUK OUR JOBS").

Communism fails at this, because they actively seek to "destroy" the "upper classes". They don't realize that they're actually perpetuating a conflict between members of a same society. Eating it from within.
 
15357 said:
Um, First of all, thanks. :p

Secondly, I don't mean that everyone should conform in the most literal sense. My position is that while people should be able to, and should strive to, pursue economic and scientific innovation, they should not engage in socially disruptive acts. Crime. Hooliganism. Forcing your religious beliefs unto others (seriously annoying, btw). I'm not saying that we should tell people what to think. I'm saying that we should make sure they act in a coordinated, socio-friendly manner, regardless of their beliefs towards others (like "THEY TUK OUR JOBS").

Communism fails at this, because they actively seek to "destroy" the "upper classes". They don't realize that they're actually perpetuating a conflict between members of a same society. Eating it from within.
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Your welcome.
That sounds much more moderate than some of your previous posts and I understand your position better.

So you are basically saying that diversity is good as long as they don't alienate everyone but their own group and do things to harm others?

So if gays started marching under banners saying things like "We are Gay F**k you America" and trying to subvert other groups then that would be bad? It would still be legal here but I kinda agree that it would a a pretty dickish thing to do.
 
ITT people who can't hack it in an era where god is dead, and try to make 'evolution' a monomaniac norm to replace him.

x or y is against Evolution? Riiiight.

PS: Hitler wasn't exactly democratically elected; he didn't have a majority but was included in the cabinet to appease his large and violent fanbase. Just like the Liberal Demcorats.

Darkside55 said:
That's why I love you, Numbers. "Do what you want as long as you don't threaten the state. Threatening the state? SUPRESS. EXTINGUISH."
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I know, right? He's not a proper homophobe with real irrational prejudices - everything he says, every stupid thing, makes perfect sense given a single basic and completely mad assumption. Of course you could claim that Numbers has plumped for nationalism in order to justify his existing irrational specific prejudices.
 
damn why do minorities need a whole month?

There's only 12! WE HAVE TO SAVE THEM UP DAMMIT! ONLY 10 LEFT!
 
So having a mindset where you do not want to reproduce with the opposite sex and build a family together, is not a dysfunction? Oh boy....

Gays clearly have an abnormality somewhere in their body. I'm not sure if gays admit that, but if they don't then they are living a lie. You should not be proud of that. I'm all for equal rights regarding the subject, but don't sugar coat the damn thing. :thumbs:
 
So having a mindset where you do not want to reproduce with the opposite sex and build a family together, is not a dysfunction?
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Well, I don't want kids, I don't think that makes me dysfunctional. You're dumb.
 
City14 will only have sex if it's guaranteed to make babby.
 
It's kind of cute that he thinks he makes devastating sense.
 
nothing like the smell of troll bait in the early morning
 
City14 said:
So having a mindset where you do not want to reproduce with the opposite sex and build a family together, is not a dysfunction? Oh boy....
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Yeah I already addressed this. Go get some learnings, boy.
 
Equality, huh? Where's my Middle Class White Male day?
 
Even when someone can mention the word "discrimination" in the workplace and can cause thousands of dollars in losses and hours of wasted time, simply because they wanted a weekend off?
 
Higlac said:
Even when someone can mention the word "discrimination" in the workplace and can cause thousands of dollars in losses and hours of wasted time, simply because they wanted a weekend off?
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What workplace is this? Sounds awesome, book me in.
 
You're looking at just about every "equal opportunity employer," where everyone but the white male gets job preference to encourage "diversity." Don't like your boss? Tell his supervisor that he was making unwanted sexual advances, they'll never know the truth, and he will be sent away.
 
I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I'm just fed up with the broken system. According to the 2000 census, 50.9% of Americans are a minority. Women get preferential treatment in almost every field, and I don't like it. I got $0 scholarship money just because my dad has a good job and I have a penis.
 
Did you mention where you got all this again? Because, you know, judging by the UK at least, I'm not sure how

- 21% of the world's managers being female
- 10% of company directors being women
- £970,000 being the difference between the lifetime earnings of men and women in the finance sector
- 35% of US lawyers being women, but only 5% being partners in law firms

counts as preferential treatment. Of course, feel free to post substantial evidence that women are being unfairly promoted in the American workplace. Because I'm sure that companies fire trusted, competent male employees on a regular basis due to mere heresay and unsupported allegation - as I am equally sure your university had so much money they felt comfortable handing it out to people who did not actually have that much of a financial disadvantage.
 
I'm not saying that discrimination doesn't exist, I just think that many policies are broken. Title IX for instance, forcing there to be equal amounts of men's and women's sports scholarships, when there are far more male athletes at the collegiate level than there are women. With so many scholarships going to the sheer size of a football (American) team, it has completely eliminated some men's sports to make way for such things as the women's Equestrian team.

Discrimination does exist, however, new policies need to be made since current policies are too easy to take advantage of. A friend of mine, who plays very few games beyond Pokemon, managed to get a job at Gamestop because she was a Hispanic Female. With the amount of applications from poor college gamers that they had, they chose the one that provided the most diversity.

As for my financial situation, I'm $8,000 in debt and I'm going to be joining the military because I can't pay off my loans. You'd think that a 3.7 gpa, 30 composite ACT student would at least get something.
 
Higlac said:
A friend of mine, who plays very few games beyond Pokemon, managed to get a job at Gamestop because she was a Hispanic Female. With the amount of applications from poor college gamers that they had, they chose the one that provided the most diversity.
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Funny how you know exactly what their reasons were. Wherever I've lived, buisnesses don't tend to make public their reasons for hiring one person over the other. You must have some good insider information. Or maybe you're just full of shit and making groundless assumptions to support your point. Perhaps they chose her because she isn't a poor college gamer who is going to nerd out all the time on the job. Or maybe they chose her because women tend to get poor, lonely, college gamers to buy more of their stupid warranties which makes them more money. Or maybe they chose her because she was actually better than any other other applicants.

Cry more. I'm $20,000 in debt and unemployed with a bachelor of science degree. You don't see me bitching about how the women are taking all my jobs. You know why I don't have a job? Because I'm not good enough. I'm ****ing up interviews and not promoting myself well enough. Simple as that. You're just looking for an excuse so you can keep ignoring your own weaknesses.
 
Maybe so, but maybe I'm just tired of people exploiting the system.[/end rant]

Damn I get too worked up over politics and religion... Gotta stay away from the politics section.
 
Higlac said:
Title IX for instance, forcing there to be equal amounts of men's and women's sports scholarships, when there are far more male athletes at the collegiate level than there are women.
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Yes, I believe that's why there might be such a law. As for your hispanic female friend, you've given us about as much reason to be certain she was a beneficiary of diversity policy as the plaintiffs needed to give evidence in your hypothetical hyperfictional kangaroo employment tribunal where powerful bosses are at the absolute mercy of any woman unarmed with facts or testimony (what is this, a medieval romance?).

I'm not saying you don't deserve any scholarship money or something. But if you're a good student a university will want you. Unequivocably, no bones about it, they want people who will work hard and get good results, or otherwise benefit them in other ways (e.g. sports scholarships). But in the case of scholarships they have a limited amount of money which they have to dole out among people according to perceived need. So if they're not giving you any I highly doubt it's because they have enough to spread around but they don't like white people.

The problem with all equality initiatives is that there are still many, many white males in shitty positions, poor, or unemployed, or without prospects. So they're going to say "well, I'm in a good position. How come I'm being told I'm the ruler of the world, while someone who's not me is getting a free ride?" The truth is that these people are being ****ed by the economic situation too, but somehow a change of that situation (and I'm not even talking about a departure from capitalism) is off the agenda. I think equality measures like the ones you mention are only sticking plasters over the gaping wound of an economy and a political system that maintains, promotes, and even enshrines not only inequality of circumstance but also of opportunity. And who knows? Maybe they really are stupid and ineffective - maybe they don't actually change the position of the majority of people who they're supposed to help out, and just ensure that a few can get through and that legislators can look good.
 
Higlac said:
Maybe so, but maybe I'm just tired of people exploiting the system.
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That will happen with every bureaucratic system that has checks and balances. It sucks but it happens. I think you're overstating how much it supposedly does happen though.
 
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