Starcraft 2: Multiplayer

Bakurei said:
I'm thinking of going away from random. Just so that I won't ever have to play the most boring strategy ever, that being the Viking/Tank stalemate...
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Viking/Siege? Weird... that's really gas heavy. Most people go Marine/Siege since it's fast to make and all your units move the same speed. Seems like a great counter to Viking Siege would me Thor/Marauder. Just stim the marauders and rush the tanks and the thors will force the vikings to land... which are like the worst things to fight a thor with.

I tried out an augmentation strategy that sort of diverges from the thor drop (that died out in beta) involving a double thor drop later in the game in addition to your main force of whatever it is. The only problem is you have to watch out for mass anti-air, but a double thor will tear up an expansion and disappear before anyone can do anything. I've really got to make more use of medivacs. They're the key to breaking any siege-related build since people tend to sit siege tanks in siege mode somewhere stupid. It's funny watching people scramble to try and unsiege if you drop a bunch of marauders on them or something.
 
StarBob said:
Viking/Siege? Weird... that's really gas heavy. Most people go Marine/Siege since it's fast to make and all your units move the same speed. Seems like a great counter to Viking Siege would me Thor/Marauder. Just stim the marauders and rush the tanks and the thors will force the vikings to land... which are like the worst things to fight a thor with.

I tried out an augmentation strategy that sort of diverges from the thor drop (that died out in beta) involving a double thor drop later in the game in addition to your main force of whatever it is. The only problem is you have to watch out for mass anti-air, but a double thor will tear up an expansion and disappear before anyone can do anything. I've really got to make more use of medivacs. They're the key to breaking any siege-related build since people tend to sit siege tanks in siege mode somewhere stupid. It's funny watching people scramble to try and unsiege if you drop a bunch of marauders on them or something.
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Heh, over here, EVERYBODY goes Viking + Siege Tanks.

To which I respond with more Vikings and a couple of Banshees.
 
I played 5 games today and none of them were Terran! It was exciting...I lost to a protoss because I didn't build enough marines and got killed by two void rays. I took out his base while he was attacking with one, but the second one came and killed all of my marauders. If I had made more marines and kept his probes from escaping I would have won...
 
Against Viking/Tank the Marauder/Marine build is a complete joke. Even if you stim you will still get at least two volleys and thats probably from five tanks. First time I saw this after the beta I tried to push marauders out from 8 rax, they didn't even get to shooting range. With this build you want to expand after the first tank, if the opponent goes for bio that one tank is more than enough to hold the ramp.
 
Bakurei said:
Against Viking/Tank the Marauder/Marine build is a complete joke. Even if you stim you will still get at least two volleys and thats probably from five tanks. First time I saw this after the beta I tried to push marauders out from 8 rax, they didn't even get to shooting range. With this build you want to expand after the first tank, if the opponent goes for bio that one tank is more than enough to hold the ramp.
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2 marauders can kill an unsieged tank with only one dying. I think 2 stimmed could get inside the min range of a sieged tank and kill it in the same way. Marines can't push against siege tanks at all since they pretty much die in one hit. Marauders and thors work well because Marauders are cheaper and can close the gap while thors have that decent range and their size diminishes the splash of Sieges. The problem is always the marine aspect. You basically just have to do the same thing to beat it once it's massed and leap frogging at you. Then it's whoever sees the other first. I'm pretty sure I'm going to commit to medivac base drops and bank on marauders and shit being able to dole out faster overall base damage than sieges. Maybe make a couple of vikings to chase down buildings and hope I can fly my base faster than they can.

It's sad that I'd rather risk an indirect shitty loss than do do the whole stupid turtlefest of TvT...
 
Yes, two marauders will kill siege tank on one on one and the the rest of the forces will just wait and go like "ye sure you kill that one first we just chill here mkay." Because of the splash, the amount of marauders needed to kill tanks is not linear.

Even if you push during the early game you won't get even one shot because of the wall-off. I guess you could try splitting the marauders in to two or more groups, hope the map is wide open (and no map pretty much is), then micro them around, stim and get them to the tanks range at the same time and hope that the opponent didn't micro the tanks.

Thors on the other hand are decent. They deny the sight advantage vikings give you. But then again you just need to start making marauders the moment you see them.

Drops are decent too and really effective if you do them early on. If you can get the medivac to the mineral line. Of course you will lose that medivac instantly but you'll get some kills, maybe snipe a building and get 2-3 viking because they need to land.

I wish there was a random with the option of no TvT :p
 
RJMC and me are on a five win streak. We go double Zerg and pwn the hell out of everyone. I go fast muta and RJMC takes care of the ground forces. Works like clockwork.
 
though we havent faced void rays spammers yet
 
The first match today. That was also the only one we lost. Double Protoss sucks. I guess the only way to win that is rush even more I guess. What is a good zerg counter for void ray spam anyway?
 
Shakermaker said:
The first match today. That was also the only one we lost. Double Protoss sucks. I guess the only way to win that is rush even more I guess. What is a good zerg counter for void ray spam anyway?
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Hydras. The Void Ray's don't have enough time to fully charge. Make sure Creep is EVERYWHERE so they have a harder time to micro away from your Hydras.
 
Yeah, creep tumors ftw. The speed boost is nice but it also helps with scouting.
 
I also noticed that using diferent kinds of units at a same time is very good too,especially if it works to counter somethings

roaches are very good against buildings,I havent payed much attention to them but now I see they are good at destroying buildings quickly than zerlings and make a good match againt most melee units too

also that creeping your sorroundings of your base is good too for defense,I barely used it cuz was more focused on spawning larvas but creeping around your base really increase your defense
 
Hey, anyone know what combination of units to use against zerg? I've been playing against Terran and Protoss for so long I forgot what to do against Zerg.
 
15357 said:
Hey, anyone know what combination of units to use against zerg? I've been playing against Terran and Protoss for so long I forgot what to do against Zerg.
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With what? Terran? I scan once or twice and see if they're building a baneling nest and if not, I go all marine early on. That way you can deal with virtually anything they can throw at you early on. It's surprisingly effective. It's fast and can beat anything up to and including mutas, but the key is that you can build it fast enough to attack before they get a proper counter. Fungal Growth can also **** your day up, but infestors aren't very common and you can usually get there before they have them. The best counter is mass roach and it's usually not fast enough to beat a real good mass marine. If it does fall apart it's hard to tech up to anything really good against zerg - like helion/thor - but you sort of have to just bend to what zerg is doing because building the wrong units will mess everything up. Reapers are pretty tough vs most things zerg throw at you early on so that's something to consider too, but I don't do it just because of where it puts you if it's not 100% effective.
 
Ok, thanks. I haven't seen zerg on 1 vs 1 since... 15 games ago.
 
Found my new favorite game mode: free for all. Holy sheet that is fun. Became second a couple of times and just scored my first win. I won because everyone kept thinking I was dead. The fourth dude dropped pretty soon which left me and two terrans. They destroyed me first, or so they thought. I simply set up another base and built up another army. The terrans proceeded to kill each other, and I joined them a little too soon. One terran was annihilated and I was assumed dead as well. I wasn't though. I had -again- built a new base and was amassing Mutas. That eventually won me the game. With about 90 of em I was able to destroy the last terran. Very good game.
 
GSL had over 1000 participants fighting for top 64, and the prize pool is at 170k with first place getting 85k
 
Just got me a couple of nice achievements. One 'real' one: I now have 50 zerg wins. The other one isn't rewarded as such but I found it immensely rewarding in itself: My win - loss ratio is now positive for the first time since I started playing, 90 matches won out of a total of 177. The Silver League is looming as well, my current ranking is Bronze 16.
 
Wow.. that's a lot of games to play and still be bronze...
 
It took me a while to get the hang of the game. :) Only when I switched to the Zerg around two or three weeks ago it finally seemed to click. I had played Terran only until then and was hovering around Bronze 69. My win - loss ratio was horrendous, something like 1:4. With the Zerg I started the long climb towards the upper echelons of Bronze. It has been a long one indeed. Had a little bump along the way around rank 30-40, but the last couple of days I have been winning and climbing the ranks steadily again. I wonder how the promotion system works ....
 
Shakermaker said:
It took me a while to get the hang of the game. :) Only when I switched to the Zerg around two or three weeks ago it finally seemed to click. I had played Terran only until then and was hovering around Bronze 69. My win - loss ratio was horrendous, something like 1:4. With the Zerg I started the long climb towards the upper echelons of Bronze. It has been a long one indeed. Had a little bump along the way around rank 30-40, but the last couple of days I have been winning and climbing the ranks steadily again. I wonder how the promotion system works ....
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The ranks are based on points alone so it's pretty basic. However, going from one class to another can be done at any time and is based on your performance against higher ranked individuals. If you were to beat a bunch of silvers or golds, they'd bump yoiu up a rank. The matchmaking doesn't always put you against higher people but if you win those, you move up. You can move up in class from just about any rank I think. In my 2v2 we moved to platinum from rank 8 or so and to diamond around rank 2.

Currently we mostly lose to higher ranked cheese players and once in a while to evens when we're not doing things well. I think if we ever actually unified our build strategy to coordinate exactly instead of just sort of half ass coordination, we'd win a lot more and probably top out our group.
 
The weird thing with the match making system is that it pits me against players that obviously aren't an even match, even if Battle.net says so. Just now I played against an 'even match' who lost every one of his 9 1v1 games. I know I am no pro, but come one ... that is ridiculous. I don't think I have played against any other levels than Bronze, so I basically have no way of knowing what matches will be like in Silver, Gold, etc. Right now most of the times I feel like playing medium or hard AI: my opponents put up some kind of a fight, but if I concentrate hard enough they aren't really a challenge.
 
Well, it sounds like you should be moving up to Silver soon if that's true. Hope you fight some Silvers soon.

/Still have only had time to play 10 practice league matches ... married life has its positives and negatives
EDIT: can't really call it a negative when relatively speaking it's so minor
 
Ha, that's what he gets for having zero detectors. I'm paranoid as hell and if I'm Toss I always put down a cannon or two ... just in case. I almost always send cloaked units out to do some surprise damage so I expect it the same.
 
Argh. Protoss becomes unbelievably tough to beat later on in the game: If they start building up 5+ Colossi, you can't really expect to beat them with MMM, even with Ghost support. Vikings can kill Colossi, but their slow rate of fire ensures that all your ground forces are destroyed before you can kill them.

I'm just gonna go with Marine + Banshee all the way now. Banshees are ridiculously good at destroying everything groundside when their numbers are 8+. Huge numbers of Marines are good anti-air against Void Rays, and will force the Protoss player to build colossi in lieu of Stalkers. Everything just melts under the force of Marine + Banshees, but you should save your Banshees from getting destroyed, because they're more effective in large numbers.
 
Banshees are only worthwhile when they cloak and you get them out early. In small numbers they'll die to a turret or any air to air unit in the game. I don't even use them vs Terran since vikings are so easy to get... marines will mess you up... and turrets are so easy to put anywhere and everywhere.

I've rarely ever had a great deal of banshee success.
 
Seriously, try Marine + Banshee against protoss.

2 Barracks (1 Reactor, 1 .... whatever you call it in English)

2 Starports


And pump out marines and banshees until you have about 30 Marines and 6 Banshees and go for the rush. Save your banshees if possible, if the attack fails.
 
15357 said:
Seriously, try Marine + Banshee against protoss.

2 Barracks (1 Reactor, 1 .... whatever you call it in English)

2 Starports


And pump out marines and banshees until you have about 30 Marines and 6 Banshees and go for the rush. Save your banshees if possible, if the attack fails.
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Tech bay. Marines are good vs protoss all the time until high templars show up. Collosus aren't as good vs them until you get at least 3 or 4 and then really only with the range upgrade. Without that a lot of protoss units can't hold up thanks to the awesome power of the ball.
 
Yeah, when HTs show up, you don't have much choice.

HTs + Collosus = Terran Death. Also unlike in SC1, the moment you lose momentum of forces is the moment you should prolly give up.
 
Just beat a Bronze Rank 1, yay for me. :) I am myself rank 9 now. Lost to a Gold ranker earlier on, so I think I blew my chances on a fast promotion there, but oh well. Stupid addicting game.
 
My god ZvT feels so broken. Terran basically doesn't have to do anything to get huge damage done. Even if the Terran sucks in micro he'll still do a shit ton of damage.
 
Bakurei said:
My god ZvT feels so broken. Terran basically doesn't have to do anything to get huge damage done. Even if the Terran sucks in micro he'll still do a shit ton of damage.
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It's true that a relatively unskilled Terran player can compete with a more talented player... but I Think that's just because the zerg mentality always has and will be "GET A LOT OF SHIT AND WIN" because 90% of the time it works. With Terran though, everything is ranged from the start and a lot of Terran units are effective vs Zerg units even as the game moves forward (ie marines) so even if you tech as zerg, you don't always get the right balance. It's tricky, but I think it's just the utter lack of use of variety in zerg. People like to get ALL speedlings or ALL roaches or ALL mutas. At least that's what I see. That's why I can build mass marine and walk all over a lot of Zerg players. But in reality if they diversifed with banelings or corruptors and different sets of units, they'd pretty much crush anything that they came up against.

I mean it is a given that Zerg kind of lack that diversity in the late game, but I think Zerg are capable of putting themselves in a winning position faster than any other race... so it's just a matter of making those key decisions that win your battles and then locking down the game for a win. I know that if I lose my army - even if my zerg opponent loses theirs soo - they will be able to generate more units much faster than me. I think that's the biggest Terran weakness... since you have to use reactors to really gain building speed and then you can only mass marines, helions, or dropships/vikings with haste. Everything else has to be build one at a time from a building when Protoss can chrono boost and zerg can infuse a million larvae.
 
Does anyone else feel Zerg is the weakest race? I feel they don't have alot to counter anything. There air sucks. Roaches don't do a whole lot to ground units and they dont attack air. The only decent unit is Hyrdas. Lings are pretty sweet for rushing but after that there isnt a whole lot to zerg. Sure you can make alot of units faster but they seem to have weak units and not alot of variety compared 2 the other races.
 
^ many posts recently have already been a major zerg whinefest, in case you hadn't noticed ;)
 
The only thing I really don't like about Zerg is how insufferably slow Hydralisks are off of creep. That needs to be fixed.

I think that Zerg is fairly strong but people aren't really playing it right. It seems like they need to be handled a bit more like SC1 Zerg in that they just need to expand and hang in there until they can get some tech out. TLO had amazing Zerg play that whipped up pretty good on Terran.
Infestors are such an amazing caster unit and they are vastly underused. You just need a good unit composition and from what I've seen it's just been people making ling/muta or roach/hydra.

Then again, I'm not really a top level Zerg player so I might be missing something that everyone else is not.
 
ramsfan said:
Does anyone else feel Zerg is the weakest race? I feel they don't have alot to counter anything. There air sucks. Roaches don't do a whole lot to ground units and they dont attack air. The only decent unit is Hyrdas. Lings are pretty sweet for rushing but after that there isnt a whole lot to zerg. Sure you can make alot of units faster but they seem to have weak units and not alot of variety compared 2 the other races.
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mutalisk advantage is being able to attack both air and ground at a early stage since they can be spawned earlier that the units of the other races

I dont know about you but roaches to me deal a good amount of damage to buildings,combining whit zerlings destroy them even faster or maybe is just me,also tear trough marines quickly,only marauders and other anti armor untis cursh them so quickly

zerlings are the tip of the spear of the zergs,having tons of them can be good,if the enemy have units that coutner attack them easily like tanks them build something to support them

still I think the zergs needs something and are a bit disadvantaged
 
I dunno how many top level zerg players there are... I rarely see them outsid of 2s. However in 2s that show up a lot. They basically serve as cannon fodder while protoss or terran kill you... that is... if they aren't 6 pooling. Scariest thing I've seen is the 6pool proxy reaper cheeseathon. It's brutal to whoever gets hit by it.
 
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