Tables chairs etc...

Here's living proof:

23423453 copy.jpg
 
I don't see how you think that's cover fire? It's quite obvious that gordon was staged to move there. It's too much of a distance to be simply wild fire. Why are you guys afraid that the AI may not be all it's cranked up to be? It's like your defending it. Relax, I'm just saying it stands out, and it makes me wonder about the real AI, which NOONE can judge, until we've experienced it all for ourselves.
 
Originally posted by guinny
I don't see how you think that's cover fire? It's quite obvious that gordon was staged to move there. It's too much of a distance to be simply wild fire. Why are you guys afraid that the AI may not be all it's cranked up to be? It's like your defending it. Relax, I'm just saying it stands out, and it makes me wonder about the real AI, which NOONE can judge, until we've experienced it all for ourselves.
Click to expand...

define "wildfire" are you insinuating they're aiming at him through a wall but have terrible aim so they're missing? they cant see him through the wall, they just know he went in the room and the one combine shot at the window when gordon walked over to push the table.

what would you ideally like to see the combine do?
 
There's two windows! They can see where he is perfectly! They would know if he was by the washing machine or not, simple because the washing machine is in direct view of the windows.
 
Yes, but they can't see BEHIND the washing machine.
They say specifically in the version I have, during the combat scene with human allies, that your allies movements aren't even scripted. The A.I. makes decisions on what to do based on what has and is happening in the situation. They shoot at the washing machine because they most likely think that he is hiding behind there. They can't see him standing by the table at the door due to the angle of the windows in comparison to where he is in the room.
It just seems like the A.I. is thinking he's behind the washing machine because they don't know where he is.
There's no need to get angry at us about it.
You could be right, we could be right. Like you said yourself, let's wait until September.
It just seems to make more sense to me that a scripted sequence wouldn't be screwed up that badly. They never used scripted sequences in Half-Life 1 to force units to fire at a spot where you SHOULD be so why would they now?
That just doesn't make sense to me.
Sorry if that upsets you.
:cheers:
Cheers!
 
Originally posted by guinny
There's two windows! They can see where he is perfectly! They would know if he was by the washing machine or not, simple because the washing machine is in direct view of the windows.
Click to expand...

the guy shooting is standing in front of the closest window and gordon is at too much of an angle to be seen. you dont see the guys head in the window, you see muzzle flashes which means the tip of his gun might be by the window, but his head is nowhere close enough to see gordon. think about it, if you're holding a MP5, the tip is gonna be in front of you, by like a foot or two (i dunno how long they are), so the combine guys head would be back 1-2 feet from the window and with gordons angle in relation to the window he wouldnt be seen.
 
i thought it was pretty unimpressive how he just shoots perpendicularly into the window... and also pretty stupid how gordon moved into the fire.

i think the player moved into the line of fire to make things look more dangerous, and to make the game look better.

But yes, it is something that was pretty silly looking to me. If he was jst firing in randomly, then he should have sprayed all around the room more, like propped the gun up on the ledge and let her rip.
 
Originally posted by Wesisapie
i thought it was pretty unimpressive how he just shoots perpendicularly into the window... and also pretty stupid how gordon moved into the fire.

i think the player moved into the line of fire to make things look more dangerous, and to make the game look better.

But yes, it is something that was pretty silly looking to me. If he was jst firing in randomly, then he should have sprayed all around the room more, like propped the gun up on the ledge and let her rip.
Click to expand...

did you happen to notice that the soldier shooting through the window was shooting from left to right?when gordon turns and looks you can see the bullet holes on the wall and they're moving from the far end of the wall closer to gordon do you think if you stood there the bullets would eventually get to you? cause if i saw them sweeping the room with bullets from left to right id sure as hell duck down and take cover behind a big metal object, i dunno about you.

but as soon as gordon moves into view/behind the washer you see one tracer way left of you and then the combine from the first window moves to the door to knock it open and the other combine shoots at the washing machine through the other window.

so basically, the one combine guy trys the door once and it doesnt open so he goes to the window and starts shooting across the room from left to right through the window, gordons on the right, he has no cover, so he ducks and takes cover behind a big metal object, the combine see him as he moves right and ducks behind the washing machine, so they know where gordon is, and the first combine goes to break the door open, while the other takes over and provides suppression fire in the vicinity of where you're crouching, so now if you stay there the first combine at the door will get you from the left or you'll get up and run right and the guy shooting through the window will get you (which he does).

how can you say that isnt smart ai? ;/

you guys are picky, what would you want the combine to do in that situation? what would your perfect AI be?


[edit]

i just noticed when the door is kicked open the table sparks against the door, and the combine guy actually kicks the door, you can see the post kick with his foot in the air if you go frame by frame, heh, he kicks it with quite a bit of force too.
 
Ok, this is just how i see it. (I just watched that section then to confirm)
The bullet holes aren't really that spread out, they are just in a little bunch. gordon was perfectly safe where he was standing before, but he ran into the line of fire, and behind the washing machine, which struck me as kind of strange.

it was as much the player doing weird things as the AI was, and when combined it was just a bit "eh?"

eg. he ran away from the soldier, he could have easily taken him down. he misses on purpose.

this was obviously to make the demonstration go the way they wanted it to, which leaves some scepticism (or intrigue) as to how that scene would play out if it was being played properly.

eg. player could have just camped it at the door, as soon as it is kicked it he just shoots the soldier in the face.

or

he just blocks the door with his body. soldiers can't kick the door in, then what happens?


Edit: Also, good to see in that screenshot above that the lighting isn't jagged like HL1's was. (The lighting from the muzzle flash)
 
I think the soldiers shot there so they would scare gordon, i would just shoot wildly into a building like that too if i couldnt get in, man cant you see ?? he shots at so gordon wont go that way, stay in the area till they burst in. but he still goes that way !
 
Guinny thinks that this is a "bug" of the AI but no, the proffession of it here becomes clear.

Just like in real life: the combine soldier didn't want to get shot, he nestled to the wall which is a perfect cover, and the only one that is out of his cover is his weap, which is very hard to hit. He does not see what hes shooting at, but its not important, he only knows that you are in the room, and tries to spray the whole area with bullets. You can often see this in films.
 
Originally posted by Wesisapie
but he could have taken the two guys out easily
Click to expand...

Not much of an AI demo if you kill the AI :p
 
There are two soldiers there. One of them just arrived and does not know where Gordon is, except that he's inside the house. The other one doesn't know either because he's too busy with the door.

Besides, AI that shoots directly at the player is nothing impressive .. it's been present in FPS' since Wolf 3D. Saying that Valve is trying to cover up that AI can't aim at the player does not make any sense.
 
Originally posted by Dile
Guinny thinks that this is a "bug" of the AI but no, the proffession of it here becomes clear.

Just like in real life: the combine soldier didn't want to get shot, he nestled to the wall which is a perfect cover, and the only one that is out of his cover is his weap, which is very hard to hit. He does not see what hes shooting at, but its not important, he only knows that you are in the room, and tries to spray the whole area with bullets. You can often see this in films.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a bug, nor anymore do I believe it was staged. I'm convinced it was spectacular AI. But I'll keep my hopes low just incase.
 
Shoot legs off tables? We saw that in the engine example... i'm sure it will be possible in the game also. :)

Originally posted by guinny
I don't think it's a bug, nor anymore do I believe it was staged. I'm convinced it was spectacular AI. But I'll keep my hopes low just incase.
Click to expand...

Well I don't think the A.I. was so spectacular, i dunno what people are imagining... but the enemies did a lot of stupid things. I'm hoping that Valve was just hiding the A.I. in E3 because frankly I didn't like the A.I. at all.
 
I.E, stand in the open and reload their weapons. 2 of them did that. Personally, if there was an enemy 5 feet away, or one flight of stairs down shooting at me, I wouldn't reload out in the open. I won't have time to notice these things though, because they'll all be dead before they have a chance to use their artificial intelligence.
 
Originally posted by guinny
I.E, stand in the open and reload their weapons. 2 of them did that. Personally, if there was an enemy 5 feet away, or one flight of stairs down shooting at me, I wouldn't reload out in the open. I won't have time to notice these things though, because they'll all be dead before they have a chance to use their artificial intelligence.
Click to expand...

Thanks for noticing man. I think everyone else is just blind.

While I don't think Half-Life 2's E3 footage was strong with the A.I. I loved the overall feel of it and the environmental interactions.... it's just crazy. And the combination of that as well as the polished story/events.... that's what's going to make it a great single player experience. MULTIPLAYER is where it's gunna be NUTTTTTTSSS!!!

A.I. itself was weak. Many games have better.
 
Well, we can't entirely judge. Valve is still tweaking with the AI, also, that video is over a year old. Alot of improvement has been done. Noone could tell what the AI will be like except when we have it ourselves.
 
Originally posted by guinny
Well, we can't entirely judge. Valve is still tweaking with the AI, also, that video is over a year old. Alot of improvement has been done. Noone could tell what the AI will be like except when we have it ourselves.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i'm saying from the E3 footage it is. I also said i'm hoping they are working on the A.I. :) No final judgements until the game comes out.
 
Originally posted by Digital
I think the soldiers shot there so they would scare gordon, i would just shoot wildly into a building like that too if i couldnt get in, man cant you see ?? he shots at so gordon wont go that way, stay in the area till they burst in. but he still goes that way !
Click to expand...

Indeed. I think the AI was actually properly thinking in this situation. The soldier at the window didn't know where Gordon was in the room, and first assumes that he was behind the washing machine - he fires, with the thought that Gordon may be somewhere else in the room, so refrains from sticking his head inside the window to look (if this is even possible in HL2).
 
The AI didnt seem that bad. All in all I just wanna put a bucket full of bullets into the combine.
 
Saying that Valve is trying to cover up that AI can't aim at the player does not make any sense.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

You can't tell how good AI is from videos. It's just ridiculous: you have to play and replay scenarios to really tell. You don't even know what difficultly level things are being set at, or what movement options are for various characters or even what the story is (for instance, if they're dumb/robots/zombies or whatever, then they aren't supposed to be smart, and other enemies are smart in different ways)
 
Yeah, don't expect a head crab to act the same way as a combine soldier. A headcrab isn't gonna stealthily think out all possible situations befor taking the initiative and storming the building with it's comrades... It's gonna smell yer BO and leap at yer face to suck out yer still pulsing brain and make a tasty treat of it.
 
Well a few days has now gone by and I'm not getting any answer that is clear. He could at least have said that this is classified information so far, or admitted that this is not possible or they are working on it right now or whatever. Cause this really is the coolest most relevant question I've seen in that "asking Gabe thread" :(

Well well, if anyone wants to try him/her-self I have my well formulated mail here.


Hi :)

On Halflife2.net forums people are posting answers-questions from you guys regarding HL2.

And it seems I happen to have a very interresting question that noone seems to have the answer for, just speculations.

Question:
In the tech-demo movie, we all saw those wooden planks that were shot to pieces, and the structure fell very realistic.
I wonder if all, or maybe just some of the wooden objects in the game, like for example tables and chairs and so on, are build up of individual wooden planks, or are they completely solid objects?
That is, could you for example shoot two legs off at any position from a table, making it slant/tilt a little or very much depending on how much you cut those legs, or maybe shoot a bit off from all legs on a chair and thereby lower it.......OR do they react as in other games, that is they break apart as a solid object? Or is it somewhat inbetween, that you can cut off a leg, but only at one specific position?

Would be great with a very clear answer explaining it all, cause this is all I want to know lol (sure, it would be cool to know if the game will run ok on a P3 866 with GF4 too, but I guess I already know the answer to that so I'll just go earn some more money lol)
 
is the ordinary mail able to be used, or do i have to use steam?
 
What if the AI in that scene could see the washingmachine thing, but not gordon... This is more logical as to why he shot the machine before gordon got to it....The AI Knew gordan was in the room but couldn't see him so it took the best "guess" as to where gordan might be hiding (the washing machine) so he fired rounds at it, and it its area to keep gordan down until the other combine got the door open... But knowing that the combine could get in, the guy playing ran to the machine and then escaped?
 
Please cant we keep this on topic. I didnt create it for you to discuss page after page of AI, this is for tables and chairs and nothing else ;)
 
I wonder if all, or maybe just some of the wooden objects in the game, like for example tables and chairs and so on, are build up of individual wooden planks, or are they completely solid objects?
That is, could you for example shoot two legs off at any position from a table, making it slant/tilt a little or very much depending on how much you cut those legs, or maybe shoot a bit off from all legs on a chair and thereby lower it.......OR do they react as in other games, that is they break apart as a solid object? Or is it somewhat inbetween, that you can cut off a leg, but only at one specific position?
Click to expand...

The answer is that you can do either: you can build it as a solid object or as individual destructible pieces. Its up to the map maker. Thanks for wasting everyone's time though.
 
Originally posted by Apos
The answer is that you can do either: you can build it as a solid object or as individual destructible pieces. Its up to the map maker. Thanks for wasting everyone's time though.
Click to expand...

I have never seen this officiall information, and I dont care much if a mod or a user-made map COULD have this feature, I wont play those. I want to play the game Half Life 2 and nothing else, therefore I ask if it will be like that in the game or not.

Thanks for your oh so very interresting contribution to this thread though :rolleyes:
 
In that case, no one knows for sure except for God and Gabe.
And probably the other people who made it. :b
 
I have never seen this officiall information,
Click to expand...

It's obvious. We've arleady seen examples of BOTH things in the video, and there is a post from Gabe in the info thread that clarifies this exact point. But go ahead: mail him some more redundant questions.
 
here what i think yes i think u can shoot out tables legs and ect they said looks like wood it will break like wood would so why not...
 
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