teenage Iranian girl to be hanged

[15357]

Thats exactly right, and nicely put. I was about to post something similar along the lines of borders on a map not defining the extent of human morality, but I think you've covered it all.

Some of the posters here make it sound as if they wouldn't interject if their neighbour was condoning child abuse, after all its not on their property so why would they?

Idiocy, pure idiocy, There are some very immature thoughts being bandied around. I'd quite like to know the ages of some of the posters here, it worries me that people so young have such a warped sense of morality and social values.

Morality is nothing more than a society's accepted norms. So, while its disgusting and unjust here, in the sane world, its not unjust there.

But since they do not conform with our sense of morality (in which they might view as warped) they must be invaded and their towns destroyed! They have no right to maintain the law and criminal justice! They are barbaric!

Ok, wait, they are barbaric, but that is not the point.

I do not condone this kind of inhuman treatment, but it's their goverment, their laws, their culture. She was tried in a court of law, and convicted, given a sentence in accordance with regional laws and codes of conduct. After all, who are we to decide what is justice?

 

[Darkside55]

The problem with this thread is that people are arguing on two levels: the morality of the subject, and the legality of it. Legally, we can't argue with Iran. We can say it's wrong, it's sickening, we can call their laws ass-backwards and barbaric, but they are, unfortunately, Iran's laws. And no amount of campaigning or anonymous internet signatures by a bunch of outraged westeros is going to change the fact that this girl will be hung.

On morality, much as I hate this moral ambiguity crap and statements like, "Who are you to say your morals are better than theirs," as Nat and others have said, there's unfortunately nothing we can do about that either. We in the Western world view rape as an abhorrent crime that infringes on a woman's, nay, a human's basic right that her body is her property, and no one else can infringe on it without her permission. We believe that to be RIGHT. I believe that to be right. To me, that's basic human decency. You don't take what doesn't belong to you, you don't stick your penis in someone who doesn't want it there.

In the Middle East where women are viewed lower than men, women have no such "right." In the opposite, perhaps it can be said that men have the right to rape a woman just because she is there. That's THEIR definition of a basic right. (Before I go any further let me just say that no, I'm not really aware if they believe that's one of their rights or not, before anyone jumps on me and says that is or isn't what Iranians believe) We don't agree with it, we will NEVER agree with it, but there's nothing we can do about it but voice our opinions. A bunch of HL2 forumites cannot sway the opinions of the rest of the world. Regrettably, we cannot save a girl from being hung. This is the way of things. I don't want to make it sound like we should all just roll over and die and not say anything, but realistically...well, that's the way of it.

 

[15357]

The problem with this thread is that people are arguing on two levels: the morality of the subject, and the legality of it. Legally, we can't argue with Iran. We can say it's wrong, it's sickening, we can call their laws ass-backwards and barbaric, but they are, unfortunately, Iran's laws. And no amount of campaigning or anonymous internet signatures by a bunch of outraged westeros is going to change the fact that this girl will be hung.

On morality, much as I hate this moral ambiguity crap and statements like, "Who are you to say your morals are better than theirs," as Nat and others have said, there's unfortunately nothing we can do about that either. We in the Western world view rape as an abhorrent crime that infringes on a woman's, nay, a human's basic right that her body is her property, and no one else can infringe on it without her permission. We believe that to be RIGHT. I believe that to be right. To me, that's basic human decency. You don't take what doesn't belong to you, you don't stick your penis in someone who doesn't want it there.

In the Middle East where women are viewed lower than men, women have no such "right." In the opposite, perhaps it can be said that men have the right to rape a woman just because she is there. That's THEIR definition of a basic right. (Before I go any further let me just say that no, I'm not really aware if they believe that's one of their rights or not, before anyone jumps on me and says that is or isn't what Iranians believe) We don't agree with it, we will NEVER agree with it, but there's nothing we can do about it but voice our opinions. A bunch of HL2 forumites cannot sway the opinions of the rest of the world. Regrettably, we cannot save a girl from being hung. This is the way of things. I don't want to make it sound like we should all just roll over and die and not say anything, but realistically...well, that's the way of it.

Agreed with first paragraph.

On 2nd para: I agree that nobody should stick their... thing in somebody else, when they don't want it.

However, the rights of a person is not god-given. There are no such things as natural rights. The rights of someone is decided by that someone's regional authority, and the members of that person's society. For example, if it is not written in the law that you have the right to free speech or to live wherever you want or whatever, and the members of the said society agree or just don't complain, than it is not a right. Morally, that is wrong. Realistically, that is the way of life.

Third para: Yes.

 

[jerkasaur]

In the Middle East where women are viewed lower than men, women have no such "right." In the opposite, perhaps it can be said that men have the right to rape a woman just because she is there. You don't take what doesn't belong to you, you don't stick your penis in someone who doesn't want it there.

you mean no one rapes anyone in united states then huh?

I am a terrible and inhuman existence.

uum, i don't mean to QFT this, but don't sound like you think your country, or the west is much better than iran, or the east.

 

[Lucid]

She was in an extreme situation with not alot of time to think...

So she used her basic instincts... and went for a weapon and lashed at the men...

...unfortunately on her part... killing one of them.
Now she has to face punishment for her basic instincts?

Oh and, petition signed.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Killing in self defense is not a crime if your life is in danger. Petition signed.

Petition Signed. Okay killing was a bit overkill, she could of just sliced his dick or something

 

[jerkasaur]

basic instincts

basic instincts do not satisfy me when i think about how she had time to grab a knife from her purse, while shy's on the ground and litterally, being raped by two men, and then hit one of them twice, and once in the chest, while the other man seems to be watching... all this in a public park.

 

[Raziaar]

Let us respect the laws of the regional and legimate goverment of Iran. however it may be terrible, stupid, and brutal.

People don't respect all the united states laws... and I don't expect them to. I sure as hell am not going to respect this Iranian law, that puts to death a girl who doesn't deserve it.

 

[Parrot of doom]

Morality is nothing more than a society's accepted norms. So, while its disgusting and unjust here, in the sane world, its not unjust there.

But since they do not conform with our sense of morality (in which they might view as warped) they must be invaded and their towns destroyed! They have no right to maintain the law and criminal justice! They are barbaric!

There are other ways of influencing a neighbour's behaviour than invading or attacking them.

For instance, I could make a choice never to buy anything of Iranian origin. I could object loudly if a shop I frequent does not do the same. I could petition my government to impose sanctions on countries that do not meet my estimations of morality.

Actions like these are what helped to demolish Apartheid - or would you say that Apartheid was perfectly acceptable so long as it was in 'their' country?

My morals are superior to the lawmakers in Iran who say that stoning a person to death in public is acceptable. Thats an opinion of mine you'll never be able to argue against. I would argue that anybody who disagrees with that opinion, even though I respect their right to do so, is lacking in basic humanity. The rights of a woman in regard to this thread are immutable.

 

[Raziaar]

By the way, I hope noone here defending Iran's law also speaks out against America's death penalty... for that would be truely twisted.

 

[jerkasaur]

no but when i read "humanity" and "law" and "america" in a line, i just can't help thinking about how many children were killed in iraq.

 

[AzzMan]

my god, you are twisted

Nat sympathizing with rapists, what a suprise...

 

[jverne]

This is true. But she knew the laws. She should have known better.

And actually, she could move if she had the money.

hey nat...coul you be so kind and post your home adress?


oh,by the way...do you have any sisters?


edit: we should realy be arguing about the law in iran! the law doesn't represent all people! the men voted and they voted for rape! that's the problem, from this point of view we should nuke iran because of such biased laws!

but anyway i still consider NAT an utter morronic idiot for not disagreeing with such a law!

 

[The Monkey]

I hope the judge and the jury get raped.

 

[jverne]

i've looked in the search about nat an rape!

he doen't think it is "that" wrong!

hey nat...who did you rape?

 

[jerkasaur]

i've looked in the search about nat an rape!

what?

 

[Ennui]

Let's not get too personal, folks.

 

[bvasgm]

Ok, so to sum up this thread:

1) A teenage girl who defended herself and her niece from being raped was sentenced to death by hanging

2) Iran has the most screwed up legal system ever.

3) Nat Turner is a fucking moron who needs to be violently raped up the ass by a group of old, horny men.

 

[NotATool]

3) Nat Turner is a fucking moron who needs to be violently raped up the ass by a group of old, horny men.

Here you are arguing against the hanging of a teenage girl yet preaching hate and violence.
EDIT: ennui is right.

 

[Ennui]

Let's not get too personal, folks.

Ahem..

 

[Reaktor4]

Don't say stuff like that, you can't judge a whole nation by the actions of their extremists. Most Iranians favor democracy, and want change, they don't want the mullahs or any of this religious bs. And I'm not saying this just to you, but everyone one of you guys, especially the ignorant fools like reaktor who say "hope america nukes them", I hope america nukes your family too you asshat. It wasn't always like this, Iran was one of the world's richest and greatest country up until the sixties.

I dont really want them to nuke iran... i just want them to take out the government.

 

[rambler]

well iran now has nuclear capability. people are in uproar about this but i say good for them, if i was in charge of iran i'd want nukes too so i could make sure that america wouldn't invade me.

Oh well, that's what she gets. Their society, their rules.

people like you make me genuinely sad to live in this world. how can you possible be so blasse about someone's life, and then when someone said murder for self defence isn't a crime, you said:

Her life was not in danger. It was rape.

i really wish there was something i could type to convey how upsetting and sick i think you are, but there are no words.


for people who are just joining the thread, here are some of the past attrocities:

She doesn't have a right to defend herself from sexual assault with deadly force.

she acted upon a BASIC human instinct: survival

So? The men acted on a BASIC human instinct too: sex

Ancient Roman and Greek societies celebrated rape

she was not being physically hurt, just penetrated. Self defense doesn't need to enter the picture. If someone grabs your arm, should you kill them?

Society deemed that she doesn't deserve to live. End of story. Not our problem, it's a different world over there.

i find these views so incredibly closed minded, it is not a different world over there, it's the same world, same people. would you want to live under those laws? do you think they would given the choice? i had a girlfriend a few months back who i was with for a while who was an illegal immigrant from iran. why? because her father was not religious and they were going to hang their whole family if they stayed. how many of you aren't religious?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

At least I'm correct. The men were going to rape her, not kill her. She doesn't have a right to defend herself from sexual assault with deadly force.

<slaps Nat>

Good god man, whats becoming of you?

 

[Pesmerga]

Maybe he did rape someone. But I do see his point, I guess, sorta, in a weird, sick "what's of use" kinda way.

Wow I just realized I could do Ctrl+I and encase something in italics that way. Awesome.

 

[rambler]

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...good contribution pesmerga...........

 

[kirovman]

Ironically enough, with the "laws of mob-rule" that Nat loves so much, I reckon he'd be the first to be lynched with his law of the jungle rules.

 

[Pesmerga]

Thanks.

But Ennui is right, if you hold no opinion, then you're pretty much useless. Merely saying "What happens, happens" is almost as useless as posting a picture of a penguin falling into ice.

 

[Loc-Dog]

I think that the girl tried to rape the men. And when they refused, she stabbed one of them out of sexual frustration.

 

[Adidajs]

And they also reserve judgement on you. Your society is not better, just different. You're closed-minded if you think otherwise.

sure they reserve judgment on the west. that's why they set IEDs, run into crowds with coats full of explosives, and slam planes into our buildings. They have reserved judgment on us and it's just as opposing.

My opinion is that I live in a society with more freedoms than those found in Iran. Whether you care to attribute that statement in a belief that my society is better, go ahead. More freedoms - it's just different.

All i know is that Eric Clapton isn't banned from the radio in the west like Iran's current president decreed in Dec.

 

[Raziaar]

I think that the girl tried to rape the men. And when they refused, she stabbed one of them out of sexual frustration.

Not funny. :|

 

[rambler]

I think that the girl tried to rape the men. And when they refused, she stabbed one of them out of sexual frustration.

get out

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

@ "Not funny, get out".

ON the contrary, I thought it made a very good point. Because she killed the best witness, any story the friend of the witness makes up could be believed, and because she is the killer, she would not be listened to.

 

[Solaris]

Originally Posted by Nat Turner
And they also reserve judgement on you. Your society is not better, just different. You're closed-minded if you think otherwise.

You sir are a fool. Just becuase somethings different does not mean it is granted cultural protection from criticism. Some beliefs, cultures and ways of life are just wrong. And Hanging a teenage girl who defended herself from men attacking her is one of them.

 

[Raziaar]

@ "Not funny, get out".

ON the contrary, I thought it made a very good point. Because she killed the best witness, any story the friend of the witness makes up could be believed, and because she is the killer, she would not be listened to.

Do you honestly believe this young girl would have any reason to go out and purposefully murder these guys? Iran isn't the united states, where serial killers are plentiful.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Do you honestly believe this young girl would have any reason to go out and purposefully murder these guys? Iran isn't the united states, where serial killers are plentiful.

Here's my own opinion. Two presumably grown men more or less attack a small teenaged girl, and only one comes out alive? There is something very strange about this story.

Either this girl is large and aggressive (or homicidal), or the two men are spindly, weak, possibly malnourished, unimposing figures.

Or hell, it could be both, which is why they teamed up on her.

 

[Raziaar]

The story said only ONE died. The rest are alive.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

The story said only ONE died. The rest are alive.

Well I meant only one of the two men came out alive. Sorry for being unclear.

Think about it. 2 men vs 1 girl.

In any random hypothetical situation, who would you put money on?

 

[bvasgm]

Pwnt lol

 

[Insano]

Oh well, that's what she gets. Their society, their rules.

Hey, jews had no rights in nazi Germany, but hey: it's (was) their society! :thumbs:

Who are we to question the rules they had back then?

 

[B_MAN]

just to be clear:

in NO WAY was this thread intended to relate to Iran's nuclear weapons program

this kind of stuff has been going on for years, and it isnt meant to be used as justification for an invasion