teenage Iranian girl to be hanged

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Nat...just shut the fuck up.

edit: And Q, I don't care where this happened, that woman didn't do anything wrong.
 
bvasgm said:
Nat...just shut the fuck up.

edit: And Q, I don't care where this happened, that woman didn't do anything wrong.
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By the looks of it she murdered a man. She can't prove it was in self defense. In her society that is wrong.
 
Nat said:
Clearly the majority of the people of Iran enjoy their laws.
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Nat said:
All their officials were voted into power through democratic means.
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Nat said:
Why would people ever overthrow a government and then vote in brand new leaders to bring back Islamic conservatism?? Clearly they wanted it.
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'They' meaning only men. They wanted it. They voted it.
It's funny how women can't vote, or else this might be handled differently there.
Imagine you are a little girl, not even an adult. This is one of the worst crimes here in America, and carries a sentence similar to murder - for comparison, since you don't consider it serious.

At least I'm correct. The men were going to rape her, not kill her. She doesn't have a right to defend herself from sexual assault with deadly force.
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She had a right to defend herself, but not with a knife and not to kill.
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Originally Posted by Pesmerga
That's like saying, hey, we have a gun at your head, but we haven't pulled the trigger yet. So you have no right to do anything about it. Yeah, that's justice.
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Nat said:
Yeah. That's how it works. Someone pointing a gun to your head doesn't give you the right to kill them. What if it were empty?
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Originally Posted by VirusType2
if someone points a gun at you and threatens your life Nat, you say you deny any right to defend yourself by any means necessary? It doesn't matter if the gun is loaded, thats not your problem. The guy shouldn't be threatening your life regardless if he uses a hammer, a spoon, a knife, a loaded or unloaded gun, or anything. It shouldn't be your problem to decide if he will use it or not, or whether the gun is loaded or not. Thats just ridiculous.
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Nat said:
I may not have the right but I would still defend myself.
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And that's what she did, and now she is sentenced to death.

Imagine you are the little teenage girl. How are you going to defend yourself from 3 grown men?

To me this isn't even civilized society. The laws there are barbaric, similar to cave men, and I think it is the World's buisiness.
 
bvasgm said:
Nat...just shut the fuck up.

edit: And Q, I don't care where this happened, that woman didn't do anything wrong.
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I completely share your point view. She didn't do anything wrong whatsoever! It was self-defense; yes, yes I agree 100%! The thing is they do not think that way over there. I'm not saying it's right (what they're doing to her; in fact I think it's insanely horrible) but you have to respect other cultures even if they are barbaric. Women are lesser over there. She could look at a man wrong and be hung.
 
Nat Turner said:
By the looks of it she murdered a man. She can't prove it was in self defense. In her society that is wrong.
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If a group of horny men were about to violently rape you, would you just bend over and take it?

She did nothing wrong.

edit: <3 Q. If it's their law, to kill a woman for defending herself, there's nothing we can do about it. Still doesn't change the fact that it's not right.
 
bvasgm said:
If a group of horny men were about to violently rape you, would you just bend over and take it?
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From his posts, I'd say yes.

</gaybash>
 
bvasgm said:
If a group of horny men were about to violently rape you, would you just bend over and take it?

She did nothing wrong.
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This happened in iran...a middle east country. Women have next to no rights there, therefore a woman saying she was raped doesn't have much bearing against the word of a man who says 'this girl murdered my best friend for no reason'
 
bvasgm said:
If a group of horny men were about to violently rape you, would you just bend over and take it?

She did nothing wrong.

edit: <3 Q. If it's their law, to kill a woman for defending herself, there's nothing we can do about it. Still doesn't change the fact that it's not right.
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Who are you to define right and wrong?
 
Nat Turner said:
Who are you to define right and wrong?
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Hes not even saying that killing the man was right or wrong, he was saying that the child was minding her business. She did nothing wrong. She didn't deserve to be raped. Nobody does IMO but thats beside the point.
 
bvasgm said:
Who the hell are you to say that a woman who was defending herself from being raped deserves to die?
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It's not up to me, it's up to her society and the people in charge.
 
VirusType2 said:
Hes not even saying that killing the man was wrong, he was saying that the child was minding her business. She did nothing wrong. She didn't deserve to be raped. Nobody does IMO but thats beside the point.
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"She did nothing wrong" is an unsubstantiated opinion. Gandhi for example believed that all forms of violence are wrong. Are you saying your views trump his?
 
ATool said:
FFS

He's just pointing out that under those laws she should be persecuted! Get over yourself and your damn morals!
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So you think it's ok that her government is going to kill her because she defended herself?

FFS, this thread should be moved to the politics section...
 
bvasgm said:
So you think it's ok that her government is going to kill her because she defended herself?

FFS, this thread should be moved to the politics section...
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Yes, it's her government. Her culture, her society. Not the business of any Westerners.
 
bvasgm said:
So you think it's ok that her government is going to kill her because she defended herself?

FFS, this thread should be moved to the politics section...
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no, he's saying that it's iranian law...and that there's nothing you or anyone else on this forum can do to her persecution
 
Well of course there's nothing we can do about it, but that's not what he was saying. He was saying that rape doesn't physically affect women therefore she had no right to kill him. That argument is, of course, bullshit.

edit: **** this shit, I'm going to sleep

edit2: Nat, you're a ****ing moron, leave the forums now.
 
Nat Turner said:
"She did nothing wrong" is an unsubstantiated opinion. Gandhi for example believed that all forms of violence are wrong. Are you saying your views trump his?
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It's not an opinion, are you saying that her mere existence is doing something wrong?
 
bvasgm said:
So you think it's ok that her government is going to kill her because she defended herself?
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No I'm thinking Nat is one of the only people not to have a big ego problem in this thread.
 
bvasgm said:
Well of course there's nothing we can do about it, but that's not what he was saying. He was saying that rape doesn't physically affect women therefore she had no right to kill him. That argument is, of course, bullshit.
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She killed a man and had no signs of injury (IIRC). You expect them to let her off the hook?
 
VirusType2 said:
It's not an opinion, are you saying that her mere existence is doing something wrong?
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Yes it's an opinion. Anything with "wrong" or "right" is an opinion. And what does "her mere existence" have to do with anything?
 
Nat Turner said:
She killed a man and had no signs of injury (IIRC). You expect them to let her off the hook?
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Considering where this happened, in Iran, no. Doesn't change the fact that they should.

you ****ing retard
 
NotATool said:
Yes it's an opinion. Anything with "wrong" or "right" is an opinion. And what does "her mere existence" have to do with anything?
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She was raped because she was there. Existance.
 
VirusType2 said:
It's not an opinion, are you saying that her mere existence is doing something wrong?
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Her stabbing of the man is doing something wrong in that society. I guess in some places you can't just go around stabbing people. I guess it's completely unacceptable there.
 
What we can gather from this thread :

1. Iran is radically different from the countries we come from.
2. In Iran, the law says the girl had NO right to defend herself.
3. The majority of men in Iran agree that she should have just bent over and taken it.
4. The majority of us (men and women) agree that she DOES have the right to defend herself.
5. Our laws reflect #4.
6. We control our laws, not theirs.
7. What is right or wrong in my eyes is probably different than an Iranian's.
8. It is up for us (through our countries governments) to decide right and wrong for OUR society.
9. While we may disagree with the way they run their government, there's nothing we can do about it, unless you feel like invading and imposing your government on them that is.
 
VirusType2 said:
She was raped because she was there. Existance.
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She was not raped. She thought she would be raped. She killed a man. Over there that = death.
 
OvA said:
What we can gather from this thread :

1. Iran is radically different from the countries we come from.
2. In Iran, the law says the girl had NO right to defend herself.
3. The majority of men in Iran agree that she should have just bent over and taken it.
4. The majority of us (men and women) agree that she DOES have the right to defend herself.
5. Our laws reflect #4.
6. We control our laws, not theirs.
7. What is right or wrong in my eyes is probably different than an Iranian's.
8. It is up for us (through our countries governments) to decide right and wrong for OUR society.
9. While we may disagree with the way they run their government, there's nothing we can do about it, unless you feel like invading and inposing your government on them that is.
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Good, post OvA. This CANNOT be emphasized enough.

Bvgasm, your morals do not dictate Iranian law.
 
ATool said:
Bvasgm, your morals do not dictate Iranian law.
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I UNDERSTAND THAT MY MORALS HAVE NO BEARING ON IRAN'S SOCIETAL VALUES.

I also understand that their values [laws] are horribly...horribly skewed.
 
Nat Turner said:
She was not raped. She thought she would be raped. She killed a man. Over there that = death.
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I was misinformed, and was under the impression that she was being raped.
 
VirusType2 said:
I was misinformed, and was under the impression that she was being raped.
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No, they were about to rape her when she stabbed one in the chest. That's murder in Iran.
 
VirusType2 said:
I was misinformed, and was under the impression that she was being raped.
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no,


She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.

As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest.The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.
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She thought she was going to get raped, and pulled out the knife and stabbed one of the men. Then they tried to attack her again (didnt say 'tried to rape her again') , and then she fatally stabbed one of the men. There was no active rape going on at any point according to the source.

Im not saying what she did was wrong (if it was me I would have done the same thing, pulled out a knife that is), she must have honestly thought the men were going to rape her and her neice to actually pull out a knife. If it was up to me I would not put such a harsh punishment...but its not up to me. Its a whole other way of life over there, and its not my place to tell them how to run their government.
 
bvasgm said:
I UNDERSTAND THAT MY MORALS HAVE NO BEARING ON IRAN'S SOCIETAL VALUES.

I also understand that their values [laws] are horribly...horribly skewed.
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LOL, I am now going to stop taking this thread seriously.

vegeta897 said:
Heheh, that's interesting :)
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:cheese: Nothin against ya.
 
Ennui said:
quiffy ;(

you're all heartless bastards
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Why?

I think it's wrong she was hanged, but I understand why my opinion is irrelevant, while others are convinced their western ideals are superior.
 
Nat, here's my question for you:

If there were four men trying to rape you, trying to force themselves on you and break you, wouldn't you do whatever you could to get away? Wouldn't you? I know I would. We can discuss societal differences, cultural rifts, and judicial separation 'till the coming of the Apocalypse, but we'd never get to the main point: this is not an issue of culture. This is an issue of morality and basic human dignity. Yes, it's true, she didn't have to kill him. But that's so easy to say. It's like saying we could use non-lethal weaponry in war, rather than bullets. Sounds wonderful on paper, but in execution, I'm sure you'd find that it wouldn't stop the enemy. This girl was not aiming to kill. She was simply trying to defend herself from these men.

Furthermore, what if they'd killed her after they were done violating her? What then? Would you be arguing that she should've killed one and run away instead? The fact is, we don't know. We'll never know. In this situation, it's impossible to know what could've happened. We only know what did happen, and what did happen is she killed a man. In self-defense. She has committed no crime and all, and the failure to see that is simply unforgivable.

In this day and age... :x
 
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