The PETA (Yes, it's time to talk about them)

[Gray Fox]

Newsflash we are sentient. People i.e. a Sentient group of animals. So Animals in this case pigs are not people, but people are indeed animals. This is my way of thinking.

Animals are sentient too, that again is a fact. They are less sentient then us, but they are sentient. And different animals are sentient to different degrees.

Aren't we forgetting something people, the key to a healthy lifestyle is a balanced diet, so eat both.

http://forums.fevergaming.com/off-to...ml#post1831029

Thats nonsense, eating balanced does not mean you should eat meat. We can get the same nutritions from plants that we get from animals. For ****s sake animals eat plants to grow. When you eat animals you are eating nutritions from the ground, just in a less efficient way.

Oh please your morals are different to his and mine, you cannot argue that your morals are better than ours.

Off course I can, people have been doing that for ages. Your moral would make rape and murder legal if applied in a non hypocritical way. My would not. My morals conform better to the standards set by our current society.
And I especially like how you only partial quoted me, and didn't actually go in to my arguments. That alone should be proof that you are incapable of mounting a successful defense of your point of view.

Once again proving you don't know shit. Sure it's cheap but it's also faster, a pig farm is trying to pump out as many animals as it possibly can as there is a huge demand for pig meat. Again as for the case of pigs it's incredibly dangerous for workers and animals to have such amounts of pigs in open style pens. Also could you develop a system to quickly apply an anesthetic that a common workers can use and make sure it's 100% effective in all cases?

Fact is the demand for meat far outweighs the animal rights parties push for better welfare of said animals (many of which I'm a member of). You have to understand both parties which clearly you don't, you keep pushing the same old "it's cheaper" bullshit.

I'd love to hear your ideas about stopping female Sows killing one another and their children without using small cages which restrict their movement. I'll read any more posts by you but I'm not going to bother replying, you cannot seem to see my point of view at all. If you can't do that I don't know why I should bother debating with you.

How does that justify the meat industry. There is high demand for cheap labor, should we allow slavery. 200 years ago the push to allow slavery was higher then the push to ban it, should we have allowed it? You haven't actually done anything to defend the meat industry. In fact you just provided more reasons to be against it. And I understand both parties, it is exactly because I understand that I'm pushing for the banning of the meat industry.
Do you even understand your arguments do not provide any moral justification for the meat industry.

 

[Jintor]

Provide a reasonable alternative?

 

[Gray Fox]

Thats a hard thing to do. Because what alternatives you have depends on where you live. Also there are so many to list, from foods to leather alternatives, to.
The best thing to do is to start googling or look up Wiki.
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imitation_meat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegan_foods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_vegetarianism

Veganism is much harder, since milk is used for so many products and getting enough calcium and vitamin B12 can be hard.
However that said it isn't impossible, and if you do get it, there are health benefits compared to getting it from animals.
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/b12/
http://vegkitchen.com/tips/calcium.htm
http://www.veganhealth.org/sh
B12: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan/

You can also buy a book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592574173

I myself mostly use a Dutch guide giving to me by a friend, so I can't list that.
However take a look at this, it is a good start, although not very useful in the long run, only in the beginning:
http://www.european-vegetarian.org/lang/en/info/kit/starter01.php

Another very easy thing to do is to avoid buying leather products, and choose synthetic based ones.


One reason why I'm so political about this is, and even think pressuring your government is more important then stop eating meat or animal based products
is because we need their support so people can more easily follow a vegan diet. Right now the greatest deterrent to following one is not the lack of products,
it is the lack of information. And the amount of false information.

I should be able to go in to a supermarket and see a whole isle dedicated to only vegan products.
Products should carry a mark on then indicating if any animal products have been used to make it.
There should be government sponsored Subway type of food chains, that only deal in vegan products.
Vegan diet should be served in the military, thereby increasing the profits on non animal based products.
A vegan menu should be a mandatory choice in schools.

 

[Tyguy]

I picture him as David Spade in grandmas boy..

"we have shots....of wheat grass"

dirty vegans...

 

[Lt. Drebin]

You have to be pretty blind to see that PETA has a noble cause.

HOWEVER, the actions of a few of PETA's members shine a bad light on the whole organization, and it's completely justified. As has been mentioned, you send a donation and a form and you're in...that's wrong, period. It's a topic and cause that attracts extremists as much as any other group on the planet...and the fact that they wash their hands of these people regularly is BS...it's the fault of PETA that these people are permited to be involved at all. PETA needs to take more responsibilty for those select members.

This is the only thing that irritates me about them...the common answer..."well, they don't represent our beliefs and cause." Well, you allow them to be members of your group. So incredibly dismissive. That's not a knee-jerk response..that's common sense in my books.

 

[Nemesis6]

Without getting too involved in the finer points of the discussion: Gray Fox, have you tasted Soy or wheat products? Tofu maybe? They all taste like crap unless you're a fanatic bent on not eating meat.

Wheat is murder, too. Surprised me, but there's really not much doubt about it. Check it out: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

 

[Kyorisu]

Off course I can, people have been doing that for ages. Your moral would make rape and murder legal if applied in a non hypocritical way. My would not. My morals conform better to the standards set by our current society.

How do your morals conform better when the overall majority think eating meat is okay? And no I'm morally against violence against other human being so you fail hard in that aspect. You might also note in my previous post about the whole sentient thing, I said it's what I thought of the matter. Whether it's true or not is redundant.

I should be able to go in to a supermarket and see a whole isle dedicated to only vegan products.
Products should carry a mark on then indicating if any animal products have been used to make it.
There should be government sponsored Subway type of food chains, that only deal in vegan products.
Vegan diet should be served in the military, thereby increasing the profits on non animal based products.
A vegan menu should be a mandatory choice in schools.

No it shouldn't. Why the heck would a supermarket waste shelf space? The majority of shoppers are not vegans and the owners of supermarket chains know this. The government does not have to intervene just because you made a choice to eat only certain foods. Should the government pay you because you chose not to work? (don't dereail into people cheating the system). School's **** no!, again you made a choice you pack your damn kids lunch. You'd feed the military crap worse than they have now? Your fighting force is not going to like you at all.

You are a minority deal with it!

 

[Gray Fox]

Am I supposed to take that article seriously?
Both his sources are unavailable.
Secondly off course killing 20 humans is worse then 10.
Just like killing 20 animals is worse then 10.
He also doesn't make distinction between animals, Cows are worth more then bunnies, and even then the animals killed for wheat are free animals, not animals that have been locked up in cage, have their body parts cut and fed the worst possible food.
Also I made it a point to say that you should not eat meat of you can comfortably survive without it. I do not expect you to put your life on hold just to not eat meat. I do not expect you to go grow food yourself.

 

[Kyorisu]

Also I made it a point to say that you should not eat meat of you can comfortably survive without it.

See personally I'd think I'd go mad without meat. You try holding a BBQ in Aus with no meat, it doesn't work. Heck you'd be mocked by your neighbors.

 

[Gray Fox]

How do your morals conform better when the overall majority think eating meat is okay? And no I'm morally against violence against other human being so you fail hard in that aspect. You might also note in my previous post about the whole sentient thing, I said it's what I thought of the matter. Whether it's true or not is redundant.

The logic that you and absinthe use to defend the meat industry would justify rape and murder if applied in a straight and equal manner. Therefore your logic fails.

No it shouldn't. Why the heck would a supermarket waste shelf space? The majority of shoppers are not vegans and the owners of supermarket chains know this. The government does not have to intervene just because you made a choice to eat only certain foods. Should the government pay you because you chose not to work? (don't dereail into people cheating the system). School's **** no!, again you made a choice you pack your damn kids lunch. You'd feed the military crap worse than they have now? Your fighting force is not going to like you at all.

You are a minority deal with it!

The majority of shoppers are not vegans partly because being a vegan is hard due to the lack of information and clarity on which products contain no animal product. Partly because we have grown up with eating meat. That however does not justify it or mean we should continue to do it. Once we thought it normal for woman to have no voting rights, for woman to stay home and cook. We got past that and we should get past this.

And government has the right and moral obligation to steer the people in the right direction. Be it for a vegan diet, a non fat diet. Or concerning slavery. Being in a minority again does not make my argument any less right. IIRC Atheist are a minority in the US.

In any case I'm getting tired of you dancing around the issue, a 15 second look at your own argument would have made you realize it's faulty. Unless off course you have a sadistic nature and actually enjoy this.

 

[Gray Fox]

See personally I'd think I'd go mad without meat. You try holding a BBQ in Aus with no meat, it doesn't work. Heck you'd be mocked by your neighbors.

Well in that case you should eat it, your live is more important then that of an animal. It's a shame though.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Wait, isn't eating plants murder or torture. It must hurt the poor poor (sarcasm) flower to have bits ripped off no?

 

[Solaris]

We have to accept that this is not an issue of absolutism, it is an issue of relative rights or wrongs.

We are just animals with a greater level of consciousness, some animals are more conscious than others and should therefore have more rights. For instance, I think monkeys and apes should have the right to life, which should be a crime to infringe by humans. I do not care what happens to ants, I don't believe they have any consciousness so to speak, however, a pig is very clever and very similar to humans. Pigs hearts can be transplanted into humans and they are extremely similar to human beings, I think to torture a pig should be a crime, they should be allowed to live pleasant pain free lives, and although I believe it is not wrong to kill them for food, they should be killed in as painless a manner as possible with the least distress as possible.

We should be debating the relative worth of the lives of other animals and make factory farms for chickens and pigs illegal for an example. It is immoral to torture certain animals, because they do feal distress and pain. Animal research is necessary for Scientific reasons, but again, should be regulated strictly by state agencies to make sure the necessary research is done in as ethical and painless way as possible.

In conclusion, we should be approaching the issue Scientifically avoiding absolutes such as "Killing all animals is wrong" or "no animal has a right to life" but instead try and approach the issue relatively looking at what rights should be granted to what animals, what should be and should not be allowed and to what extent, what is necessary to do to animals and what isn't? Perhaps approaching it in this manner may lead to Pork being illegal, perhaps we will reach the conclusion that it's okay to keep chickens locked up, but with enough research and a rational approach we can reach an ethical position.

 

[repiV]

Another very easy thing to do is to avoid buying leather products, and choose synthetic based ones.

So I'm evil for wearing leathers now too?

Good to know that a cow is more important than my life.

 

[Gray Fox]

You don't need leather to live. But yes generally a cow is more important then you specifically, a cockroach is more important then you. Hell an amoeba is more important then you.

 

[repiV]

You don't need leather to live.

No, but it certainly increases your chances of survival and avoiding disability significantly if you come off a motorcycle.

But yes generally a cow is more important then you specifically, a cockroach is more important then you. Hell an amoeba is more important then you.

You're a cock.

 

[MTGunNut]

[

Another very easy thing to do is to avoid buying leather products, and choose synthetic based ones.

where will I get my daily helping of cow killing?

I dont see why its so ****ing hard to kill a damn cow.:rolling:

And most that synthetic stuff won't hold up to REAL work.




People Eating Tasty Animals. :cheese:

 

[No Limit]

People Eating Tasty Animals. :cheese:

You so funny! Because that hasn't already been said like 100 times in this thread already. :dozey:

 

[CptStern]

is this thread still churning out bad karma like a bat out of hell?

"Nemesis: what's a karma?"

where will I get my daily helping of cow killing?

I dont see why its so ****ing hard to kill a damn cow.:rolling:

And most that synthetic stuff won't hold up to REAL work.




People Eating Tasty Animals. :cheese:

there's an idiot born every minute, ta ta!

 

[Fliko]

The majority of shoppers are not vegans partly because being a vegan is hard due to the lack of information and clarity on which products contain no animal product. Partly because we have grown up with eating meat. That however does not justify it or mean we should continue to do it. Once we thought it normal for woman to have no voting rights, for woman to stay home and cook. We got past that and we should get past this.

ROFL, what?
Most people I know LOVE their meat, they love the sweet taste of oh so tasty murder.

 

[Robert-]

Weren't most animals put on this earth to be eaten? I called PETA once and asked them why they said Jesus frowns upon eating animals and said that in the bible they make animal sacrifices. All they said was the couldn't engage in religious discussion with me......Damn fools.

 

[MTGunNut]

Weren't most animals put on this earth to be eaten? I called PETA once and asked them why they said Jesus frowns upon eating animals and said that in the bible they make animal sacrifices. All they said was the couldn't engage in religious discussion with me......Damn fools.

haha, typical. Stupid ass PETA.

 

[CptStern]

tasty pork chops


mmmmmm you can almost taste the tumor

enjoy your meal

 

[Absinthe]

Looks ****in' delicious.

 

[Qonfused]

Needs some A1.

 

[MTGunNut]

finger-lickin' good.

 

[CptStern]

and that's why the abuse will continue into perpetuity

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah, because beating people over the head with shock videos and calling them evil is a sure-fire ticket to instigating social change!

 

[CptStern]

Yeah, because beating people over the head with shock videos and calling them evil is a sure-fire ticket to instigating social change!

so this is typical of all animal welfare groups not just peta?

why is the message always ignored? instead the method of delivering the message is always the main focus of debate ...yet the main message remains ignored

 

[Tick]

Well in that case you should eat it, your live is more important then that of an animal. It's a shame though.

you are insane man

 

[venturon]

it's obvious none of you even understand what peta is about ..Peta: People for the ETHICAL TREATMENT of animals

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - Hey guys isn't it just so ****ing obvious what this party is about? I mean, shit, I can practically infer their core message just from reading their name! No Antisemitism here! Hundreds of thousands of jews worked to death and gassed? What the blue flaming **** are you guys talking about! Didn't you read the name?

Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Hey guys! Check this awesome country out! It's a veritable utopia. I don't need to know anything about it to know that it's a ****ing fab place to live--just look at that name! No human rights violations here people!

What the **** Stern?

 

[Tick]

pwned very hard.

 

[Nemesis6]

"Nemesis: what's a karma?"

"CptStern: I support Nazism."

:upstare: The PETA, too, but that would negate the point of the (mis)quote.

Anyway, Venturon, if you noticed, there's a slight hint about the Nazi party at the end of the video where you see the hellbitch of the PETA saying that resistance is futile.

 

[Gray Fox]

you are insane man

It's mad to feel it's a shame that he will go mad without meat?

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, not eating meat will not be very healthy for you. At least you'll end up with a fibroid problem, or whatever synthetic foods lack from a nutritional perspective.

 

[Gray Fox]

You need to explain that a little bit more.
Since as far as I know only chicks have that.
And a study I've read points out to eating meat actually increasing the risk, while vegetables and fruits have the opposite effect.

 

[Tick]

It's mad to feel it's a shame that he will go mad without meat?

you think the life of animal is worth the same as a humans life If I read correctly.

 

[Gray Fox]

you think the life of animal is the same as a humans life If I read correctly.

Like usual you didn't read correctly.

 

[Tick]

what do you mean by usual? I just joined like 2 weeks ago and barely posted on politics



also when you say It's a "shame though"
that what it sounded like to me,if I read wrong Im sorry,are you a vegan btw?

 

[Gray Fox]

No vegetarian, I try to be vegan. But milk and egg products are so often used in products without a clear indication I often consume them by accident. Or when I have no choice, like in Croatia or Bosnia.