The U.S must stop suporting Israel

[Lemonking]

first I wanna tell ya im not a NAZI even thoe I live in wonderfull Germany their is no exscuse for what the Germans did to other Germans
yes Germans just becuz they have a differnt relgion that doesnt mean there not German however after the "creation" of Israel
many palastinins [only know how to spell it in German]
where driven from their Homeland and now they live like refugees in their own Country! and only because it says in a book that this Land is the Home of the Jews and know u fuk off we live here

since then Moslems have been pisst about Israel and becuz Moslems
stick togehter no matter the borders of Counrys that whole corner of the world is pissed and now come the Americans they give Israel
Weapons Tanks and Money.and of course to shut down the rain of terror in their own country the Moslems think they have shut down the Money giver
so they fly plains in the WTC[which is not ok at all]
I hope u get what I mean if the US stop supporting Israel maybe
the Terrorists will stop blowing themselves up but thx to George
they probally they wont stop becuz he raided Iraq
and now their mor pisst then ever


btw if u dont like my spelling then FU

 

[Raziaar]

Why should the US stop supporting Israel, while the rest of the arab nations would support the "Palestinians"? That would only leave them more vulnerable to a coordinated attack and another invasion attempt. So many people are against the invasion of Iraq, but they would actively support the invasion of Israel and slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Jews.

 

[Lemonking]

Why should the US stop supporting Israel, while the rest of the arab nations would support the "Palestinians"? That would only leave them more vulnerable to a coordinated attack and another invasion attempt. So many people are against the invasion of Iraq, but they would actively support the invasion of Israel and slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Jews.

the thing is the Jews dont even belong there its not there country

 

[Raziaar]

the thing is the Jews dont even belong there its not there country

Thats an opinion. Not a fact. There is extreme controversy about whether that is true or not.

But, with that logic, we americans should pack up and leave because this is not our country. Same for Canada, eh?

 

[S1ddartha]

no way palastine sucks.

the bible says planly that iseal belongs to the isralians
god just banished them for a while because they were
sinners. but he said at a time in the future they would
gather back to their rightfull land which is isreal and they
have done it. isreal belongs to them not the palastiniens.

if we oppossed israel we would be going against god himself
bush isnt that stupid. the palastinians dont belong on the israelians
land. besides that isreal kicked their ass in war so basically the land
is theirs they won it.

 

[Lemonking]

Thats an opinion. Not a fact. There is extreme controversy about whether that is true or not.

welll I could come to Canada and say in the Book of the holy Critistina Pampelmapple it says Canada is our Homeland,now leave so we can build our Houses and let u suffer

 

[Lemonking]

no way palastine sucks.

the bible says planly that iseal belongs to the isralians
god just banished them for a while because they were
sinners. but he said at a time in the future they would
gather back to their rightfull land which is isreal and they
have done it. isreal belongs to them not the palastiniens.

if we oppossed israel we would be going against god himself
bush isnt that stupid. the palastinians dont belong on the israelians
land. besides that isreal kicked their ass in war so basically the land
is theirs they won it.

a 'true jew' would know that only god can create Israel not a State like the US or the UK

 

[Raziaar]

welll I could come to Canada and say in the Book of the holy Critistina Pampelmapple it says Canada is our Homeland,now leave so we can build our Houses and let u suffer

Israel is not there just because they have a belief that it is their homeland. It is there because they took control of it as well.

Throughout history, countries have changed hands, shifted in ownership and this is no exception. United states and Canada, didn't belong to the so called 'original settlers', but they made it their own anyways, and thats how it stands today, and that is less disputed than the Israel situation which is exactly the same thing.

 

[S1ddartha]

welll I could come to Canada and say in the Book of the holy Critistina Pampelmapple it says Canada is our Homeland,now leave so we can build our Houses and let u suffer

but u forget one thing there is no book
of the holy cristina pamplemapple. the bible is real its
different. isreal belongs to the israelians. period.

'trew jew' would know that only god can create Israel not a State like the US or the UK

god did create israel idiot read your bible
if your gonna speak. he also said isreal would gather back there
one day. he planned it. dont come to a debate unless you know
what ur talking about.

 

[Choscura]

wow. this defies logic, but being in germany i can understand how you wouldn't understand the bond between america and israel.

read this and i think you'll understand that its not just the us supporting israel.

http://www.jdl.org/israel/soldier_message.shtml

 

[Lemonking]

but u forget one thing there is no book
of the holy cristina pamplemapple. the bible is real its
different. isreal belongs to the israelians. period.



god did create israel idiot read your bible
if your gonna speak. he also said isreal would gather back there
one day. he planned it. dont come to a debate unless you know
what ur talking about.

God didnt create Israel it was Countrys like the US and UK and France becuz they didnt want to have them so had to find a place where they can stay they used the Bible as an exscuse

 

[CptStern]

but u forget one thing there is no book
of the holy cristina pamplemapple. the bible is real its
different. isreal belongs to the israelians. period.



god did create israel idiot read your bible
if your gonna speak. he also said isreal would gather back there
one day. he planned it. dont come to a debate unless you know
what ur talking about.

you quote the bible as if it's fact which it is not, it has absolutely no relevance to this discussion

 

[Lemonking]

If they would at least treat the Palestinians right no they take bulldozers and smash thier houses they even killed an American while she was in a refugee camptrying to help with a bulldozer
not to mention the attack on an American Battlecruiser which lasted
20mins! then they said it was an accedent how can accedent last
20mins?

 

[Texter]

Well that might make us believe Israel doesn't support the US ;-)

 

[MAx]

wow. this defies logic, but being in germany i can understand how you wouldn't understand the bond between america and israel.

read this and i think you'll understand that its not just the us supporting israel.

http://www.jdl.org/israel/soldier_message.shtml

I read it...a letter from an Israeli solider, telling how much he would love to fight for the us.

How does that compliment what you said about not only the us supporting Israel?


And S1ddartha: Very nice facts you're bringing in there. Of course, if the bible says it's so, then it's so.


Btw. Didn't god expel the Israelis from Israel? Then how can you say god supports Israel?

 

[Eg.]

first of all, the land that is called palastine was called Judea, land of the jews by the romans. the romans kicked the jews out because they didnt pay taxes (who would have though) and then called it palastine to get rid of an trace of jews.

then arabs moved in, flash to 1940's the UN makes a jewish state, and only in the 1970's did the "palastinians" start calling themsleves palastinians. they had no problems being under british control, but not teh jews.

so now by retracting support from isreal, that might cause another war with the arabs, so more people will die. so i think that we should kick out the "palastinians" and dump them in the neighboring arab nations, which for sum reason dont want them

 

[MAx]

1. Have you got any proof that the Palestinians enjoyed living under British rule?
2. If they DID enjoy living under British rule, could it be beacuse the British didn't terrorise them so much? (Answer this only if you find proof for #1)
3.Why should you kick out the Palestinians? You cannot say that because the Jews were there 2000 years ago, that the land belongs to them now. In the last decades, the palestinians have lived in Palestine, therefore it's their land.

 

[Sprafa]

If the Israelis returned to the original borders, I wouldn't mind them in the Middle East. Instead they try to achieve the "biblical borders", which is illegal.

 

[Icarusintel]

i say we support the israelis till they kill everyone else, then we let europe go on another crusade, led by france, then we just nuke em, who's with me?

 

[Lemonking]

i say we support the israelis till they kill everyone else, then we let europe go on another crusade, led by france, then we just nuke em, who's with me?

stop or the mods will close the Thread

 

[Gray Fox]

WTF does it matter what the bible saya, you can't just go and retake land back that was yours 2000 years age, thats insane. Weather or not palestina was called then palestina or not is of no importance, the fact is those people lived there and they were drivin out.

The reason that they didn't oppose the brits as much as the Israelis can be that after the world war, all of the peopel in the colonies saw that the white people weren't supperior and you see a patern of kolonies rising up against there masters, second thing is that the first modern terrorist atatck was carried out by the Israelis to get the brittish out of Israel, It was on a hotel or something and 200 people died. The palestinians saw that and learned from it probably and now they are doing the same thing.

Furthermore as far as I know the palestinians have nothing against Jews but against Zionists( as they call them), those people who beliefe that Israel is their godgiven land and that they should make there their country.

How ever the situation is not black and white, "fact" is that as far as I know there are 1000 000 arabs living in Israel( I don't know for sure, but I think I saw it somewhere), there are a lot of people in Israel who want peace and are not like sharon and his liqud party, Israelis have good reason to be mistrustful after the wars with the arab nations, especially after Yom Kippur. And I don't beliefe it is honest and reasonable to expect the Jewish people to just go out of the land, I mean they have lived there fore more then 70 years. What Israle needs is an International peace force, consisting also of soldiers form arab nations, and no segregations between Israels and Palestina, I mean the borders set out by the UN in 1967 are rediculus, there is no way that could have lasted long in any country, many people on both sides say they don't want to live together, but if you provide them with enough incentives and the alternative is this what is now they will probably go for it.

 

[Raziaar]

What strikes me funny, is that palestinians and jews are relatively the same people. The palestinians don't have a distinct culture that i'm aware of. They're a mish mash of other religions and countries, like egypt etc.

I mean, Jesus was a palestinian jew. The whole palestinian part stems from the fact they are from that area. It's in my belief that the jews and the 'palestinians' all should be allowed to live there.

 

[Choscura]

i think this discussion doesn't bear much weight: israel is a country now, like it or not. they're also the ONLY middle eastern country loyal to the west in any way shape or form. also, they've proven their ability to do what they want in spite of everyone else, simply through sheer determination. they have some of the best weapons in the world, the flat out best training in the world- all of their military has SOME experience, making them infinitely better at combat than our soldiers who can only go by what drill sergeants with book learning have to say (unless of course they're cannon fodder in iraq right now. note: this is not a derogatory comment about our military or the british military).

bringing god into this picture is purely stupid. he doesn't exist, period. he's an invisible man that a bunch of political and religious hustlers came up with a few thousand years ago to control the people of israel: think about it. invisible... everywhere at once.... living in the clouds... and he's always watching you. no matter what you do he sees you, and he writes down what you did in a big book called the book of life. and if he doesn't like what you do, as defined by his artificially inflated 'ten commandments' he sends you down to hell to live in fire, and burning, and pain, to have devils poke you in the ass with pitchforks.

but he loves you.

he loves you and he needs money! religion takes in billions of dollars every year, they have billions more in assets (land, stocks, etc), and they pay no taxes. i don't think the us defacit is to blame on our war economy, blame the religious assholes. start taxing the churches, why don't you? we'd be out of debt in no time. and as for (the ridiculous notion of) the bible being true, look up jesus' last words. theres four gospels, and theres four different versions of it.

 

[Raziaar]

i think this discussion doesn't bear much weight: israel is a country now, like it or not. they're also the ONLY middle eastern country loyal to the west in any way shape or form. also, they've proven their ability to do what they want in spite of everyone else, simply through sheer determination. they have some of the best weapons in the world, the flat out best training in the world- all of their military has SOME experience, making them infinitely better at combat than our soldiers who can only go by what drill sergeants with book learning have to say (unless of course they're cannon fodder in iraq right now. note: this is not a derogatory comment about our military or the british military).

bringing god into this picture is purely stupid. he doesn't exist, period. he's an invisible man that a bunch of political and religious hustlers came up with a few thousand years ago to control the people of israel: think about it. invisible... everywhere at once.... living in the clouds... and he's always watching you. no matter what you do he sees you, and he writes down what you did in a big book called the book of life. and if he doesn't like what you do, as defined by his artificially inflated 'ten commandments' he sends you down to hell to live in fire, and burning, and pain, to have devils poke you in the ass with pitchforks.

but he loves you.

he loves you and he needs money! religion takes in billions of dollars every year, they have billions more in assets (land, stocks, etc), and they pay no taxes. i don't think the us defacit is to blame on our war economy, blame the religious assholes. start taxing the churches, why don't you? we'd be out of debt in no time. and as for (the ridiculous notion of) the bible being true, look up jesus' last words. theres four gospels, and theres four different versions of it.

Heh, your comments are no more relevant than any other mindless, rambling athiest.

I don't spend one damn cent on my religion, because I have no need to. Except, maybe for a bible, but its just like any other book I wish to read, and one can last me my entire life. Heh.

 

[Steve]

Btw. Didn't god expel the Israelis from Israel? Then how can you say god supports Israel?

No, idiot. The Romans under Hadrian conquered Israel (then known as Judea i don't remember when), renamed it "Palestina" and forbade Jews to enter...in later years, various empires conquered it and blah blah blah blah blah

 

[Icarusintel]

seriously though, why shouldn;t we support Israel, they're our best ally in the region, the only one, really, why would we give such a thing up, and it's not like they're going anywhere anytime soon, the Seven Days War proved as much, they can holkd their own, and hell, land doesn't really belong to anyone, people just occupy it, and right now, the Israelis occupy it, and they're doing a damn fine job of keeping it that way, but if someone wins, someone else always has to lose, and it just turns out to be that the Palestinians lost, they still are allowed to live in the general area, they should be happy they weren't all kicked out, because Israel could easily do that

 

[tehexchro]

the thing is the Jews dont even belong there its not there country

guess we should give germany back to Russia, England, the US, and France... it should be THEIR country

 

[Tr0n]

Strong over the weak...thats the natural order of things.The israelis came out stronger than the arabs in the 7 days war...so they got the extra land, but untill someone takes back that land...it's theres to keep.Illegal or not.

Thats war people...deal with it.

 

[Steve]

Strong over the weak...thats the natural order of things.The israelis came out stronger than the arabs in the 7 days war...so they got the land, but untill someone takes back that land...it's theres to keep.Illegal or not.

Thats war people...deal with it.

Your mom is war.

Seriously, though, Tr0n's right.

The strongest get what they want. It may not be 100% right all the time, but it's the way it works.

 

[Tr0n]

Your mom is war.

Seriously, though, Tr0n's right.

The strongest get what they want. It may not be 100% right all the time, but it's the way it works.

To tell the truth...she is. :|

 

[Gray Fox]

the only reason the palistenians want the land back is b/c it contains jerusalem. i mean damn, palestien is what? probably double the size of israel already... do they really need to be that greedy? besides that they took over the country fair and square, if the palestines want it back their gunna hafta destroy the U.S. and israeli army...

google is your friend, but I have taken the libertly of finding a map for you, just because I'm a nice guy.

guess we should give germany back to Russia, England, the US, and France... it should be THEIR country

That is your reason we shouldn't give back palistine to the palestinians, well actually if you look at it logically the jews are the ones sayin that this was their country 2000 years ago, and that is why we should give it back, so your argument would be if logically aplied have to be for the palestinian side against the Jewish people

 

[seinfeldrules]

I wish that they could both live along in peace under the Israeli flag. This will not happen if terrorist attacks continue as they are doing nothing except to incite the Israelis. I dont blame the Israelis to not help out scum that are willing to use children as bombers. That is just sickening. I am definitely not saying all Palestinians are like that, however, the moderates dont appear to be doing much to stop it.

 

[Gray Fox]

There is as much atrocities from the jewish side as there is from the palestinian, the only way this can be resolved is with a international peace force, and it would have come long agoo, like in bosnia. But I don't know who is stopping it from happening, it might be the US but I´m not sure enough to accuse them, besides a lot of european countries condemm Israel for what they are doing, and in a lesser way the US, but still sel weapons to them, like Holland,sems hypocritical.

 

[Raziaar]

Even if there ended up being peace between the jews and the palestinians, there still would never be peace in the middle east. The other countries inhabitants still keep killing each other, like Iran and Iraq, etc, over much more trivial issues.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

first I wanna tell ya im not a NAZI even thoe I live in wonderfull Germany their is no exscuse for what the Germans did to other Germans
yes Germans just becuz they have a differnt relgion that doesnt mean there not German however after the "creation" of Israel
many palastinins [only know how to spell it in German]
where driven from their Homeland and now they live like refugees in their own Country! and only because it says in a book that this Land is the Home of the Jews and know u fuk off we live here

since then Moslems have been pisst about Israel and becuz Moslems
stick togehter no matter the borders of Counrys that whole corner of the world is pissed and now come the Americans they give Israel
Weapons Tanks and Money.and of course to shut down the rain of terror in their own country the Moslems think they have shut down the Money giver
so they fly plains in the WTC[which is not ok at all]
I hope u get what I mean if the US stop supporting Israel maybe
the Terrorists will stop blowing themselves up but thx to George
they probally they wont stop becuz he raided Iraq
and now their mor pisst then ever


btw if u dont like my spelling then FU

Actually, all of this is flawed. If Hitler had'nt began the genocide of the Jewish people, we would'nt need an Israel to hold, what noone wanted:

Holocaust Survivors.

 

[hasan]

heheh .. I'm gonna post here, but no to debate, just to inform.

There will not be peace between israelies and muslims, it's hard to explain why, but you kinda have to live in the middle east for a while to know how people think here. We're not like you .. you know.
man, I know you won't get this, I think there really is no way to explain it =P
It's a strugle of existance, it's either us or them on this land, there will be no peace, we cannot forget what happened in 1948, you can't expect us to just forget all the suffering and patience of over 50 years and suddenly accept this "israel" thing. We havn't been struggling for so long for nothing!
Plus it happened before in history, the crusaders took parts of palestine, including jerusalem, they controlled it for about 90 years, but then we liberated it .. and that was after 90 years. israel hasn't even reached it's 60th year yet ..

Second, in the west, the jewish lobbies are very strong in the media and the image of the conflict is very distorted, specially in America, so don't believe everything you hear on TV please.
heh .. supporting Israel seems to be the one thing that both democrats and republicans agree on; hell man, they compete over who is the most loyal to israel.

P.S. S1ddartha, dude, I hope you get banned or something.

 

[HunterSeeker]

Meh, the brits should have it back. That way they will be forced to keep peace over there.

 

[Eg.]

see, the moslems are still bitching about teh crusades, and they keep saying isreal is the real source of the fights (1948) when u also had teh 6 day war and the yom kippor war, but if we invade a moslem country on ramadan, thats terrible

 

[Gray Fox]

heheh .. I'm gonna post here, but no to debate, just to inform.

There will not be peace between israelies and muslims, it's hard to explain why, but you kinda have to live in the middle east for a while to know how people think here. We're not like you .. you know.
man, I know you won't get this, I think there really is no way to explain it =P
It's a strugle of existance, it's either us or them on this land, there will be no peace, we cannot forget what happened in 1948, you can't expect us to just forget all the suffering and patience of over 50 years and suddenly accept this "israel" thing. We havn't been struggling for so long for nothing!
Plus it happened before in history, the crusaders took parts of palestine, including jerusalem, they controlled it for about 90 years, but then we liberated it .. and that was after 90 years. israel hasn't even reached it's 60th year yet ..

Second, in the west, the jewish lobbies are very strong in the media and the image of the conflict is very distorted, specially in America, so don't believe everything you hear on TV please.
heh .. supporting Israel seems to be the one thing that both democrats and republicans agree on; hell man, they compete over who is the most loyal to israel.

P.S. S1ddartha, dude, I hope you get banned or something.

You all so keep supporting the "freedom fighters"in Iraq who so lovingly kill more citizens in their fight more then they do amerikans.
Tt's very easy for you to sit on your arse in Canada and support the war, well I have been through a war and I can tell you there are more then enough palestinians and jews who want to life peacfully, it is people like you who life a nice and confortable life in the west that want war that support the terrorist freely, those palestinians have no choice, the terrorists are their only hope, or if they resist them they get killed, and you instead of seeing that multicultural societies can work are actually encouraging war and quoting Al Jazeera like it is the truth, instead of trying to bring them to peace.
Let me tell you something you are just like Bush or his supporters like Ghost, sunhawk, seinfeldrules, exept on the opposit side, if you were an american you would support the war in Iraq and you would beliefe FOX news.

Let me tell you something americans can afford to be rightwing and warmongers cause they have an BIG ****ING ARMY, and they can kill you, and if what yo usay it is true taht they will never live in peace together then the Jews are the one who are going ot be the winners, it is only because of wussies like me who protested in vietnam war that the US didn't use nukes, it is because of wussies like me that protested against the Iraq war that bush isn't doing worse thing in the middle east. Wussies like me go there from their confrontable lifes in the west and join the red cross, oops sorry I meant to say the green half moon, cause the cross is not allowed there in the east, I guess you would rather die than see someone who wears a cross help you. Or wait!! again is it maybe that most of the people wouldn't mind, it is only that their religous leaders bitch about it.
If Israel were the only place in the world that was left to life I, even afterwhat I have said that I believe would still live on the Israeli side, simply because they have more democracy and there womon are equal( simply put have better human rights).

Fact is people like you are a large reason that there are so many wars in the world, and a second fact is that you are the underdig you can't afford to be rightwing casue there are less and less left people in the west, all the western countries are becoming more and more rightwing, and a big part of that are the terrorist attacs.
In fact I don't even believe you are a true moslim, I will bet that I as an Atheist know more about the koran than you, cause as far as I can see you have never taken the time to read it, all you have done is gone to sites of extremists and read their pathetic version, I mean FOX news propaganda seems infinatly complicated and subtle in comparison to what is on those sites.
If you were a true muskim you would condemn what the Janjaweed is doing in Darfur.

So there, this might seem an extreem rightwing post ( and I will sure put on my flame resistant suite), but people like you make me angry, you actually have had a chance to live a good live and tha chance to see the conflict from two different point of view and yet you still choose freely to be ignorant, and my post won't make a damn difference, cause if you haven't seen the light untill now you probably never will.

( BTW Grey Fox is currently in a bunker, wearing a flame resistant suit, and guarded by mean mercenaries)

 

[Pericolos0]

I wish that they could both live along in peace under the Israeli flag. This will not happen if terrorist attacks continue as they are doing nothing except to incite the Israelis. I dont blame the Israelis to not help out scum that are willing to use children as bombers. That is just sickening. I am definitely not saying all Palestinians are like that, however, the moderates dont appear to be doing much to stop it.

its quite hard. Hamas isnt just an organisiation of suicide bombers, it goes way beyond that (schools, social security etc.)
I really dont see how one can choose a side of sympathy in a situation like this.

a suicidebomber attack happens, people die, a lot more get wounded. Isreal then mostly goes fire some rockets at suspect terrorists, and plows down the neigbourhood where the terrorist came from. And then when palestine extremists take revenge, it starts over again.

both sides keep igniting the violence, and noone seems to take an initiative to end this vicious circle. This is one of the many cases where violence wont solve a single thing.

both Sharon and Korei think represaille actions are legitimate. And there are always innocent victims.