This Is The Fallout 3 Thread

[MGpet]

After about 10 hours of play, the first five of which I thought I was playing the game of the year, I am so ****ing bored with this game, I have now uninstalled.

EXACTLY THE SAME AS WITH OBLIVION, WTF. HELLO LICH KING.

 

[knut]

I traded it in on friday with COD4 and got COD5 for 3 quid. Good deal!

But in hindsight, very disappointing game. ''IT'' wasn't bad, it was how it was made. How it was designed and written and generally put together. It didn't feel as if Bethesda had changed anything - had bothered to alter their way of thinking so that the game could of been a little different than Oblivion in some aspects. There was no progression.

 

[Tagaziel]

Funnily enough, that's what I said would happen.

 

[WhiteZero]

What the difference between beating the game and keep going, or just saving right before you beat the game and load that?

 

[Direwolf]

Funnily enough, that's what I said would happen.

Yeah, but then there's plenty of people like me that think that statement is bizarre and insane, having played the final product.

I would never argue that they aren't similar, but I think they've made huge progress in how they construct the game world and structure quests.

 

[knut]

I never agreed nor disagreed with you, Mik. But I can see what you mean in the scheme of things.

It's fair enough if people like it. I mean, I do *like* it, or I did, but I just can't enjoy it because my brain is constantly saying ''Oblivion Oblivion Oblivion'' and nothing was ever really fresh to me. Maybe it's because I clocked so much time in Oblivion.

My problem is that it tries, and succeeds sometimes, to create a bunch of cool new stuff, but it falls right flat on it's face to me when it comes packaged with the same formula and manufacturing that went into Oblivion. Thats what stands out the most for me.

 

[nipples]

Is this game any good? I keep hearing mixed reviews.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

like Deus Ex? like STALKER? Like making choices and shooting things in a post apocalyptic future? Then yes.

 

[nipples]

Fair enough.

 

[Kadayi]

Is it good? Really it depends on your unit of measure. If your looking for a game that will completely occupy your time for a few weeks (assuming you don't rush the main storyline like a madmen), then yes it is good. If you expect to find the answers to all your unrealistic gaming prayers (like some on this forum) then no it isn't.

 

[Tagaziel]

Why Van Buren was a better game:

Belle is very approachable and will freely interact with the player. If the player is particularly homely (CHA < 4), she will aggressively flirt with the player, opening up opportunities for the player to shack up with Belle. Since Belle?s quarters are on Sub-Level 3, and since Willem restricts all access to only those he visually approves, Belle will lead the player to one of the rooms on Sub-Level 1 (the occupants of the sleeping quarters freely give up their room for a Born Ghoul ? it?s like a god to them). A particularly worthy performance by the PC (EN > 7) will get Belle to become completely enamored with the player and garner more information about Sub-Level 3. See, even ugly people get laid in Fallout 3.

 

[Gray Fox]

I guess it's a little bit of a spoiler, but you should click anyway

Spoiler

 

[Tagaziel]

Except Belle is a pretty ghoul. Really.

It's a real shame that Herve "The Retard" Caen cancelled Fo3. The design docs indicate an amazingly well crafted and intricate RPG. Beth's invention pales in comparison.

 

[Kadayi]

Why Van Buren was a better game:

You must live in the alternative reality where it was released I guess.

Just because it says X in a design doc doesn't mean shit when it comes to actual delivery.

 

[Jintor]

Meh considering that Van Breun would not have had an amazingly well crafted 3d world and that the system would have been Fallout 1/2-like they probably would have delivered it. Was voice acting planned for everybody in Van Bruen?

I hear Audio takes up most of the time in Fallout 3 dev. Voice acting for everybody must be a real pain in the ass.

 

[KagePrototype]

Meh considering that Van Breun would not have had an amazingly well crafted 3d world and that the system would have been Fallout 1/2-like they probably would have delivered it. Was voice acting planned for everybody in Van Bruen?

I hear Audio takes up most of the time in Fallout 3 dev. Voice acting for everybody must be a real pain in the ass.

I think they left the voice acting unti last, so they could finalise everything else. kinda shows I guess.

 

[Tagaziel]

You must live in the alternative reality where it was released I guess.

Just because it says X in a design doc doesn't mean shit when it comes to actual delivery.

It means a lot, since those design docs come from middle-to-last production stages.

I know you're still angry at me, since I didn't treat your RPG ideas like the Second Coming of Christ. Fact is, Van Buren is a better game.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

My obnoxious opinion is, Van Buren is a better game.

fixed.

Also what the shit is the show framerate command? F***ing google and every goddamn site out there has these huge lists and NONE of them contain the simplest of useful commands.

 

[Tagaziel]

WHERE TO GO CONDITIONS
The player blew up the construction debris on the Rim, destroying the dam.
Goto 1
The player had the satellite fire on Hoover Dam
Goto 2
If the player brokered peace between Hoover and Mason's
Goto 3
If the player did not broker peace between Hoover and Mason's
Goto 4
Nothing done about the virus
Goto 5
PC distributes smooch through Dr. Yuri
Goto 6

1. Catastrophe! (WTG)
What took five years to build, only took seconds to destroy. In one fell swoop from a carefully placed explosive, millions of tons of water and concrete washed away the lives and ambitions of people who longed for a better future. Hoover Dam, in all its glory and engineering marvel, was no more.
Show crumbled dam face with green water cascading over jagged concrete and rebar.

2. SATELLITE DESTROYS Hoover Dam! (WTG)
Though the missiles of the Great War never touched Hoover Dam, the missiles of B.O.M.B. ? 001 did. The atomic warhead incinerated everything. Now Hoover Dam is nothing more than irradiated sludge and scattered rebar, just like so many cities that fell victim to the Great War.
Show a smoldering crater.

3. Peace between NCR and BOS (WTG)
With peace came cooperation, and with cooperation came growth. Hoover Dam blossomed under the new peace between the Brotherhood of Steel at Maxson's Bunker and the NCR under Governor Joseph Dodge.
Show Hoover Dam's Rim with new housing and happy people mingling with power armor clad BOS soldiers and NCR soldiers.

4. No peace between NCR and BOS (WTG)
War, no matter how big or small, always has a high price. Governor Dodge and Hoover Dam could not maintain an extended war with the Brotherhood of Steel. Moral ate away at Dodge's men, and soon there was no one left to protect Hoover Dam. Governor Dodge shot himself as the BOS stormed through the front gates, and the NCR became a forgotten memory.
Show Dodge with a gun under his chin, an explosive exit wound on the top of his head, and a couple of Brotherhood soldiers busting through his office door.

5. Limit 115 goes unchecked (WTG)
Limit 115 takes its toll on Hoover Dam. Those who do not die from the plague, flee Hoover Dam when others perish. Half of those who choose to remain become sterile. Over time, the population of Hoover Dam dwindles, and no matter what mechanical or social successes came before it, the plague eventually wipes out another community.
Show ground perspective of the Rim; empty of life, with a child's doll crumbled on the ground looking at the camera.

6. PC distribute smooch through Dr. Yuri and never creates anti-toxin (WTG)
The impact that smooch has on te citizens of Hoover Dam is overwhelming. Soldiers, police, and the common citizens all succumb to the addictive pleasures of smooch. Soon, mechanical equipment shuts down, systems fail, people starve, and lives are lost. Hoover Dam eventually turns into a ghost town, complete with the rotting corpses of its former citizenry.
Show ground perspective of the Rim; empty of life, littered with clothed skeletons, with one skull smiling at the camera..

Point me to ONE instance of such choice & consequence in Fo3.

 

[knut]

If you expect to find the answers to all your unrealistic gaming prayers (like some on this forum) then no it isn't.

I didn't expect it to be a breakthrough in gaming or groundbreaking or anything of the sort - I haven't played a game of such measures for a long time and in no way does that shape my final thoughts on the game. I do, however, expect progression. I expect a game company to shake things up a little when it comes to their next project. Fallout 3 didn't feel like Bethesda had actually made anything new. It felt as if they took a bunch of stuff that has already been designed and made and stuck it into their own engine.

Feels like a sloppy, lazy and poorly designed game to me, and this is coming from someone who had no previous quarrels with Bethesday, Fallout or anything else. I've just played it all before.

 

[kupocake]

Fact is, Van Buren is a better game.

If you can play an unreleased game through reading its design documents and playing its tech-demo and come to that conclusion, why not fill in the blanks in Fallout 3 and come to the conclusion that it is a decent game? Why not just come to the conclusion that Fallout 3 is a nice cottage in southern Spain commanding scenic views and stocked with mountains of custard creams?

 

[Kadayi]

I know you're still angry at me, since I didn't treat your RPG ideas like the Second Coming of Christ. Fact is, Van Buren is a better game.

Van Buren was never released, therefore it is not a better game, because it simply wasn't ever 'a game'. You can argue all you want that potentially it might have been a great game, but frankly it's high time you stopped mopping after this dead girlfriend and moved on. It's morbid and unseemly, and crying over spilt milk gets you nowhere.

Also I'm not angry, I'm just surprised at your close mindedness when it comes to debating the subject. For a person who purports to be all about 'compelling storyline' it's a bit of a shock to find out that the reality is all you truly care about is combat statistics and not role play at all, and that you have no interest in moving the medium of RPGs into different spheres or directions whatsoever. Just kind of surprising at the end of the day. :dozey:

I didn't expect it to be a breakthrough in gaming or groundbreaking or anything of the sort - I haven't played a game of such measures for a long time and in no way does that shape my final thoughts on the game. I do, however, expect progression. I expect a game company to shake things up a little when it comes to their next project. Fallout 3 didn't feel like Bethesda had actually made anything new. It felt as if they took a bunch of stuff that has already been designed and made and stuck it into their own engine.

Feels like a sloppy, lazy and poorly designed game to me, and this is coming from someone who had no previous quarrels with Bethesday, Fallout or anything else. I've just played it all before.

Sloppy/lazy doesn't actually mean much to me without some context comparisons. Put some Vs in there and you'll have something to debate. Right now you're not demonstrating why it's a lazy/sloppy game, you're just eluding in a nebulous fashion. Also on the one hand you say you weren't expecting anything ground breaking, on the other you're punishing it for not being progressive. If you bought it having no expectations how can you then criticise it for meeting those expectations?

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Weird, a Fallout related thread has derailed into a childish back-and-forth between Mikael Grizzly and some other members. This never happens.

Fallout Threads and Mikael, a Frustration Practicum:

Public: Hey guys, Fallout 3 is actually p. cool! I've been exploring the wastes and I love the desolate atmosphere and my cool suave sheriff jacket.

Grizzly: So I've been playing the HELL out of Fallout 3, but really, I hate it. It's really bottom of the barrel horseshit next to the depth of FO 1/2. In fact, I hate this game so goddamn much I'm going to play the piss out of it in order to extricate ridiculous details on how shitty it is and report back to you guys in multi-quote posts.

Public: M.G., you're being ridiculous. There are some aspects of the game to enjoy, even you have admitted that! Black Isle is dead and gone, man, move on! The talent has moved elsewhere. This isn't canonical and won't ever be as special to you as the first games.

Grizzly: Bethesda is a horrible developer and each and every member should be sacked and beaten with copies of the first two fallout games until they admit to having a vastly inferior product that's trodden with awful dialog, zero character depth, and enough mind bogglingly pointless arbitrary questing to euthanize the average work horse. Van Buren being canceled is the most upsetting thing since the holocaust.

 

[knut]

You know, he HAS pointed out elements of the game he enjoyed, y'know? Regardless of it's past series history, or anything else, it's a flawed and pretty bad game to some (like me) anyway, regardless of story or writing. He also happens to find quite a few things wrong with the game. Whilst I won't get into any of the Van Buren stuff, or lore related to Fallout 1/2 (because I have no idea where to start with either and I am ignorant to the subjects), the rest of his points are pretty much fair opinions an criticisms of the game. Bad writing and zero character depth criticisms... what's wrong with them? I agree completly with those kind of points. I'm sure many others do with Halo, or with any other game. It's just banter.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

It's just the same argument with the same talking points, over and over (and over) again. His criticisms are often valid, but I'm getting a bit tired of it all.

 

[Kadayi]

Weird, a Fallout related thread has derailed into a childish back-and-forth between Mikael Grizzly and some other members. This never happens.

Fallout Threads and Mikael, a Frustration Practicum:

Public: Hey guys, Fallout 3 is actually p. cool! I've been exploring the wastes and I love the desolate atmosphere and my cool suave sheriff jacket.

Grizzly: So I've been playing the HELL out of Fallout 3, but really, I hate it. It's really bottom of the barrel horseshit next to the depth of FO 1/2. In fact, I hate this game so goddamn much I'm going to play the piss out of it in order to extricate ridiculous details on how shitty it is and report back to you guys in multi-quote posts.

Public: M.G., you're being ridiculous. There are some aspects of the game to enjoy, even you have admitted that! Black Isle is dead and gone, man, move on! The talent has moved elsewhere. This isn't canonical and won't ever be as special to you as the first games.

Grizzly: Bethesda is a horrible developer and each and every member should be sacked and beaten with copies of the first two fallout games until they admit to having a vastly inferior product that's trodden with awful dialog, zero character depth, and enough mind bogglingly pointless arbitrary questing to euthanize the average work horse. Van Buren being canceled is the most upsetting thing since the holocaust.

LOL. So true, also I can't help but feel Mikael is somehow Blaming Bethesda for Van Burens demise in some twisted fashion...

 

[Tagaziel]

Van Buren was never released, therefore it is not a better game, because it simply wasn't ever 'a game'. You can argue all you want that potentially it might have been a great game, but frankly it's high time you stopped mopping after this dead girlfriend and moved on. It's morbid and unseemly, and crying over spilt milk gets you nowhere.

Not potentially. It *was* a better game. Not released, but still better in every aspect as an RPG.

Also I'm not angry, I'm just surprised at your close mindedness when it comes to debating the subject. For a person who purports to be all about 'compelling storyline' it's a bit of a shock to find out that the reality is all you truly care about is combat statistics and not role play at all, and that you have no interest in moving the medium of RPGs into different spheres or directions whatsoever. Just kind of surprising at the end of the day. :dozey:

Does loving role play mean I should bow down to you and proclaim you the God Emperor of RPG Design? No, I don't.

You're jumping to conclusions, again. That will get your ass shot off some day and frankly, I'd love to be the one holding the shotgun that day.

I *care* about roleplay, and that's the primary reason I lament the passing of Van Buren. If you cared about the subject at hand and stopped coddling that precious little concept of yours that, frankly, isn't all that great, you'd take and study the design documents for Van Buren. The sheer amount of thought that went into creating a game that supports actual roleplaying rather than munchkin gameplay of Bethesda's excretions is amazing.

I don't have to see the game released to know it's good - we have design documents, we have designers with a pretty good track record and actual industry experience, we have a storyline and world that was pre-produced by Chris Avellone IN ACTUAL ROLE PLAYING SESSIONS.

I compare that to an FPS/RPG hybrid that's certainly amusing, but forgettable. A game made by industry noobs headed by a Daggerfall dungeon designer. So, sorry if I don't bend over and invite Bethesda to sodomize me.

Sloppy/lazy doesn't actually mean much to me without some context comparisons. Put some Vs in there and you'll have something to debate. Right now you're not demonstrating why it's a lazy/sloppy game, you're just eluding in a nebulous fashion. Also on the one hand you say you weren't expecting anything ground breaking, on the other you're punishing it for not being progressive. If you bought it having no expectations how can you then criticise it for meeting those expectations?

Okay, sloppy design:

* Burke, Tenpenny, Moira, pretty much all NPCs with quests are merely quest triggers, not actual NPCs with a backstory.
* No backstory given to most characters, even supposedly major ones like Burke or Tenpenny.
* Internally inconsistent gameworld
- temporary National Guard outposts set up around DC still standing after 200 years, with terminals running, trucks only barely affected by rust and stocked with weapons and ammunition.
- Power still running in DC underground and it's buildings, despite the fact that power transmission stations would go poof after that time.
- Food available from unlooted stores. A town build around a nuclear bomb when a better location in Springvale is available five minutes away.
- Aforementioned stocked stores placed near human settlements
- VATS godmode
- Lack of meaningful choice and consequence (shut up about the "freedom" to kill whom you want Kaday - it's primitive and carries no consequence in Fo3)
* Fire not hurting you.
* Exploding cars after 200 years
* Fatman

Really, the game feels as if a bunch of monkeys was randomly excreting ideas and throwing them all into one bin, which was then passed on to programmers who mashed it all together. The result? A game that has it's ups (like environmental art (<3 the beautiful, although repetitive, downtown DC. Also, cars and robots. That's what we love uniformly)), marred by totally stupid, illogical design choices.

You want comparisons? Okay. I'll give you comparison. But you'll help me:

1. Catastrophe! (WTG)
What took five years to build, only took seconds to destroy. In one fell swoop from a carefully placed explosive, millions of tons of water and concrete washed away the lives and ambitions of people who longed for a better future. Hoover Dam, in all its glory and engineering marvel, was no more.
Show crumbled dam face with green water cascading over jagged concrete and rebar.

2. SATELLITE DESTROYS Hoover Dam! (WTG)
Though the missiles of the Great War never touched Hoover Dam, the missiles of B.O.M.B. ? 001 did. The atomic warhead incinerated everything. Now Hoover Dam is nothing more than irradiated sludge and scattered rebar, just like so many cities that fell victim to the Great War.
Show a smoldering crater.

3. Peace between NCR and BOS (WTG)
With peace came cooperation, and with cooperation came growth. Hoover Dam blossomed under the new peace between the Brotherhood of Steel at Maxson's Bunker and the NCR under Governor Joseph Dodge.
Show Hoover Dam's Rim with new housing and happy people mingling with power armor clad BOS soldiers and NCR soldiers.

4. No peace between NCR and BOS (WTG)
War, no matter how big or small, always has a high price. Governor Dodge and Hoover Dam could not maintain an extended war with the Brotherhood of Steel. Moral ate away at Dodge's men, and soon there was no one left to protect Hoover Dam. Governor Dodge shot himself as the BOS stormed through the front gates, and the NCR became a forgotten memory.
Show Dodge with a gun under his chin, an explosive exit wound on the top of his head, and a couple of Brotherhood soldiers busting through his office door.

5. Limit 115 goes unchecked (WTG)
Limit 115 takes its toll on Hoover Dam. Those who do not die from the plague, flee Hoover Dam when others perish. Half of those who choose to remain become sterile. Over time, the population of Hoover Dam dwindles, and no matter what mechanical or social successes came before it, the plague eventually wipes out another community.
Show ground perspective of the Rim; empty of life, with a child's doll crumbled on the ground looking at the camera.

6. PC distribute smooch through Dr. Yuri and never creates anti-toxin (WTG)
The impact that smooch has on te citizens of Hoover Dam is overwhelming. Soldiers, police, and the common citizens all succumb to the addictive pleasures of smooch. Soon, mechanical equipment shuts down, systems fail, people starve, and lives are lost. Hoover Dam eventually turns into a ghost town, complete with the rotting corpses of its former citizenry.
Show ground perspective of the Rim; empty of life, littered with clothed skeletons, with one skull smiling at the camera..

Find me one (one) instance in Fallout 3 where such C&C is present. Shouldn't be hard if it's a good game, right?

And to answer your question: I'm merely comparing Fo3, the usurper, against a true Fallout sequel. Very simple, actually. A game that claims to be a sequel (which is what Beth markets it as) should be better than the cancelled Van Buren, after all, BETHESDA HAS TECHNOLOGY OHLOLOLOLOLOL

So, basically, **** you all. Sincerely. **** every single one of you mindless, corporate whores supporting the biggest game design con ever. Have fun rolling in your pit of copy/pasted identical games, fueled by hype.

Especially sincere "**** you" goes to all of you justifying Fallout 3's shortcomings.

Most sincere **** you (and my personal wish that you get ran over by a stampede) to those considering a true, worthy sequel.

And, as a last, personal note: yes, Fallout 3 is fun. It's the Jackass type of fun - mindless enjoyment that discourages thinking, especially critical thinking.

 

[lefty]

Games- serious business.

 

[Qonfused]

Damn.

 

[Tagaziel]

Your mother is serious business.

But seriously, I'm tired of arguing the same points over and over with the usualy array of assorted morons.

 

[lefty]

**** yeah she is. Am I included in your See's box of morons?

 

[KagePrototype]

For the love of christ. Mikael, Kadayi, grow the **** up.

 

[Tagaziel]

Why should you be? t's a broad term I used to describe the usual jaded NMA haters. It's kind of funny, actually, seeing people desperately trying to somehow improve their self worth by deriding us. Plus, occassionally, the usual "OMGFALLOUT3ROXXORZZZZ" idiot gets this title. And people who try to justify an AAA title's blatantly obvious flaws.

It's amusing how standards have taken a plunge as of late. Fallout 3 with worse graphics, released in 1997 would have lost terribly to Fallout, yet it's hailed nowadays as the Third Coming of Christ (the second being Oblivion).

Heh.

 

[lefty]

I was just wondering how much you were paying attention, whether you noticed I've never actually said anything to you about Fallout 3.

I haven't even played it, actually.

 

[<RJMC>]

I am enjoying the game a lot,though I havent played oblivion no the originals fallout,though my interest piked after playing the 3

so i think what my opinion is not that relevant

though there is things I think should have been improved I think fallout3 is still a nice game

also the universe and style have hooked me,cant wait to play the originals

 

[Tagaziel]

So I've responded to your question, defining the term.

also the universe and style have hooked me,cant wait to play the originals

Don't. It'll make you bitter and angry, just like me.

We could use an eleventh angry guy on NMA, though, gramps died of a heart attack last week.

 

[Barnz]

Go make your Van Buren thread, really. This thread turned into shit.

 

[StardogChampion]

I just saved this thread.

 

[ktimekiller]

meh it happens (by happens, I mean every time)

 

[DEATHMASTER]

What the hell is that?