Thoughts on designing ennemies, come in and share

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In fact i already posted this in other thread, but i want to share it with more people and see what people think about the ennemy should be in the future fps.

I like hl2's story better than doom3's story. Don't get me wrong, I'm 30% a doom3 fan and 70% a hl2 fan now. Someone made a joke, saying:"it's Mars, why don't we just nuke the ****ing place". I kind of agree with him. The ennemis in doom3 are zombies and creatures from the hell, in fact they just look like animals or something and they don't even have the technology to travel to Earth. Besides if one man is able to take them down, so why should we bother in killing them?!! I don't see how they are a threat to the humanity. The ennemis in doom3 are just some inferious creatures. Valve handle fairly well in designing the ennemies, they are human like creatures with high tech stuff. human is the most superious creature that we have seen in the real life. We are strong, not because we are zombies with animal like physical strength, but because of our intelligence, high tech, etc. In fact, we human are the superpredator in the world(the one that we know up to day) , the rivals can only be the human like superpredator from other dimension or something even more superious(GOD, maybe?? not sure). Hl2 has a lot to do with the theme "superpredator"; human fight against combine to see who is really superious, who is really the superpredator and who will be the one (Jet Li??); For the inferious creatures such as antlions, to be manipulated and to be enslaved are their fate.

Man i just realize how much i like hl2, percentage of fanatic degree just increased by 5%, from 70% to 75% now.
 
Originally posted by Ro@cH
Gamevoodoo: The Resident Evil line of games were full of inferiOR creatures, slow moving zombies, kneehigh raging dogs, generally stupid, low-tech creatures. But, they did manage to scare the sh!t out of people, Resident Evil and it's successors were relatively popular games. Doom3 has both creatures that are inferior as well as superior(speed,strength,intelligence). I do think you're right, killing 150 bloodthirsty rabbits is less appealing than killing 50 combine soldiers.
It's human nature that feeds the need to match ourselves with, or even exceed,our superiors. It's what drives any war, any fight, any struggle.
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Yeah, for the purpose of scaring the shit out of me, it's true that inferious creatures work better and they look more scary(imagine your grandparents come to ask you for foods and walk slowly like zombies). Maybe in the aspect of the gameplay it works. But in the aspect of the story, it will be weird to see that human are defeated by inferious creatures and one man's army is going to save the entire humanity. I know it's just science fiction, but if a science fiction can combine with some deep and logical thinking, it could become a great epic story. I used to think that Bible is just an science fiction written based on the man's knowlegde in pass. But i realize that something(something only, not everything) it says is quite thoughtful which make a great book that last for centuries. btw, Koran is relatively more enligten than Bible. Don't make this Bible vs Koran thread and I'm not a believer.
 
Thanks for quoting me here, I didn't feel like copy-pasting my post from the other thread :)
I think that putting inferior creatures in games not only works gameplay-wise but also story-wise. Most games tell the story of a hero, it's been like that since Greek myths and tales. A hero is someone who undertakes a quest, and against all odds, survives every fight, no matter how strong the opponent is, and in the end he reaches his goal (freedom,power,the girl,etc). This is why games are unrealistic story-wise. It's not likely for Agent Blascowitz(sp?) (RTCW) to go and fight hordes of nazi's, killer robots, demons, etc and win in the end. It's not likely for Gordon Freeman to go up against hordes of alien creatures, trained marines, black-ops, etc and "win" (<-mind the quotes) in the end. Those stories aren't realistic, but they sure as hell appeal to us, because we admire heroes for their deeds, and in games we can be the admired hero ourselves. To augment this feeling the player gets, the game designers throw you into an infernal pit of horror, but they make sure that it's possible to win. Sayeth G-man: "I can offer you a
battle you have no chance of winning." How many people chose that option the first time they played HL through? I'm not sure which option I chose, but what I am sure of is that the other option (to work for G-man) gives the player a better feeling.
 
Many people(especially adult, parents, school teacher like creatures) think that people who read book are cultural, knowledgeable and thoughtful, that people who watch movie are not deep thinker and that people who play videogame have no life and mindless. I mean videogame is capable of delivering a thoughtful aspect of life, maybe game is even better than book in telling a story since it makes us to experience a story ourselve with everything realtime on action. But it depends a lot on the game dev(some game stories is just not that thoughtful); hl2's story is the first relatively more thoughtful story in the fps game genre that i have seen so far; at least, it has a theme that talks about the world's hierarchy: the superious creatures rules the inferious creatures.
 
I thought you meant "ideas for designing enemies"... How did you manage to bring up the Koran in a Halflife2 discussion forum is beyond me...

Anyway, it seems to me you haven't played the original Doom. If you had you would know that it has one of the greatest science fiction plots in gaming history. Demons have always been a threat to humanity according to some major religions: it's not my opinion I'm an atheist but I've read both the Bible and Koran. The zombies are humans who have been resurrected by Demons, the rest of the creatures were inspired by books and drawings.

And Demons do not need "technology" to "travel" to earth, the humans opened a portal/gateway to hell when they were experimenting with teleportation. If you had played the original Doom you would know.

"if one man is able to take them down, so why should we bother in killing them"

Now that has got to be the dumbest comment ever. In every FPS game you are the one man army but you didn't point that out, you just flamed Doom proving you're just a fanboy: I could resume your paragraph in just 3 words: "Doom 3 sux!!!111"
 
..err...Koran Bible has nothing do with this, i just want to type more stuff to practice my english.
 
Originally posted by gamevoodoo
Bible is just an science fiction written based on the man's knowlegde in pass. But i realize that something(something only, not everything) it says is quite thoughtful which make a great book that last for centuries. btw, Koran is relatively more enligten than Bible. Don't make this Bible vs Koran thread and I'm not a believer.
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I said How you managed to bring up the Koran in a Halflife2 discussion forum is beyond me...

And you brought it up by simply writing it.
 
Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
...it seems to me you haven't played the original Doom. If you had you would know that it has one of the greatest science fiction plots in gaming history. Demons have always been a threat to humanity according to some major religions: it's not my opinion I'm an atheist but I've read both the Bible and Koran. The zombies are humans who have been resurrected by Demons, the rest of the creatures were inspired by books and drawings.

And Demons do not need "technology" to "travel" to earth, the humans opened a portal/gateway to hell when they were experimenting with teleportation. If you had played the original Doom you would know.

"if one man is able to take them down, so why should we bother in killing them"

Now that has got to be the dumbest comment ever. In every FPS game you are the one man army but you didn't point that out, you just flamed Doom proving you're just a fanboy: I could resume your paragraph in just 3 words: "Doom 3 sux!!!111"
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Thx for the information on the Demons. I played the original doom too long ago, but i didn't know what the story is about, mabye i was just a mindless player. Now when we talk about alien and Demons, I tend to think that Alien is more possible and more realistic than Demons(I'm not a ufo fan). Of course, a GOOD science fiction stroy doesn't have to be realistic, but it must be THOUGHTFUL. When we are talking about thoughtful, we should combine it with the reality, with logical thinking and with what's goin on today in real life. In real life, human rules. THe only possible and logical rivals to human must be something superious or equal to human. it's purely about the story, i know i'm wrong at this point with the gameplay(pointed out by Ro@cH).

Serously, one man's army could give us satisfaction, but it's not as fun and as realistic as coop. Gordon is not fighting the ennemy alone which make it more logical. Doom3, on the other hand, is fixed to be one man's army and the storyline can't change much, since it wants to resurrect the old doom legend. It's true that I like hl2 story better than doom3 story, but after trying the alpha, i will save up enough money to buy both game.
 
Originally posted by )[eVo]( Para
I said How you managed to bring up the Koran in a Halflife2 discussion forum is beyond me...

And you brought it up by simply writing it.
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sorry sorry
 
Para please quit accusing people of fanboy-ism. His comment (if one man is able to take them down, so why should we bother in killing them) could just as well be applied to half-life. His comment may be false in your opinion, but he's done a good job in describing his opinion in a fair way. I suggest you do that too.
Somehow the Doom plot appeals to people. Someone said "why not just nuke them all, after all it's only Mars".
The hero of Doom(1,2,3) is exactly that: a hero. He is willing to sacrifice himself to rid all other human beings of evil. And here is where the link with religion comes in. The Doom hero is a symbolical Jesus. He saves mankind of evil demons from hell.
 
i'm sorry, but doom did not have one of the greatest sci-fi plots of all time.

Demons from Hell open up a portal on Mars, and if our lone Hero doesn't stop them they'll come to Earth and destory us all! Sounds like a bad B movie.

The fact is that video game plots are very, very different from book and movie plots, because the majority of the content in video games would be excruciatingly boring in books and movies:

"Gordon peeks around a corner and sees a headcrab...he leaps around and kills it with a quick swing of his crowbar. "Heh, scratch number 84" he thinks to himself"....

Half-life 1 may have had the best fps video game story ever, but it doesn't really hold up. Shit happens deep underground, and our Hero has to work his way up level after level through complex problem solving to get to the surface and save the day. The only twist is the grunts killing the scientists.

Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoyed the whole experience, but its hard for any video game to have character development or anything like that.

Though here's hoping HL2 can bridge that gap :)
 
I’m addicted to zombies. Nothing more scarier then a hoard of mindless closing in on you from all around. If I’m being chased by demons or real evil looking bastards holding torches under their faces I’ll always shit myself. That’s physical.

I felt the same when I played silent hill 1 on the ps1. Everything was going kind of alright. Then the place would go to hell. For me nothing compares to the terrible feeling that everything around you is out of control. It was the same with Aliens. Vicious looking evil works well.

I’m not saying that HL’s approach isn’t good. I think that the enemy’s in HL1 were more fun to take down. I never felt terrified in HL though. HL is more of a thinker’s game, where as the doom genre is different. Halflife is a thriller and doom is more a horror.

Comparing the two I have to say beyond a doubt that I had more fun playing through HL just because everything there was much more cleverer. But it isn’t fair really to compare two games that were years apart and aimed for different experiences.

In terms of bad guys I thought the doom badies and the aliens (from aliens) and also what ever those things were from Silent Hill had more presence and atmosphere then HL1’s creature cast. The best enemies in HL1 were the electric throwing Cyclops fellas and the zombies. They had character and popped up in really unexpected places. I was disappointed by the huge boss dude with the blow torches on his arms. I found him a little stupid. Also I kept giggling at the giant scrotumed crab.

Having said all this HL2’s cast looks truly awesome. Improved AI will make the combine troops really quite frightening. If they do there best to hunt you down then my pulse will surely quicken. The strider and the hydra all have an excellent ominous feel to them. I’m greatly looking forward to see how the whole creature cast unfolds. I know valve have quite a few scary surprises up their sleeve.

Whilst watching the preview video to doom3 I was actually getting quite terrified. I think it is here where I can see where there will be differences between the two games. Whilst it is really engaging to have your pants scared off, sometimes it is a little too much.. i.e. not fun anymore. There were times in Silent Hill where my brother and I would have to stop because it was just a little too much. I see half life as challenging, engaging and fun. I think the differences are quite subtle thou.
 
i used to scare the shit out of many people in natural selecton with skulk cloaking in the dark hallway near the marine base. I'm looking forward to ns2, i think they annouce it, it's just matter of time. it will be great if ns2 can feature some pitch black environment like those in doom3.
 
How can you go and say that DOOM had a "bad B movie" plot, but then Half-life had one of the best when they're almost the exact same plot.

DOOM: Military is experimenting with teleportation on mars, portal opens to another dimension/hell, and monsters bent on destruction come running out of the portal.

Half-Life: Government is experimenting with God knows what in a secret installation and a portal opens. Out comes beings from another dimension...

Now, the beings in HL may have more of a purpose than the demons in DOOM, but at the heart of it, they're the same basic plot. Half-Life was barely original. Sure the game had character interaction (and I like it better than DOOM), but come on, the story of Half-Life is simply an elaborated version of DOOM. They took the DOOM story/plot and simply added/changed a bunch of details. That was extremely obvious to me the very first time I played HL, but I didn't care because it's a great game, just as DOOM is.
 
A story is not just about What happens. Its about setting, Surroundings, atmosphere and more. I think you could easily write a book about HL, tho it might need some embellished character interaction for some dialogue :). Halo was based on a book (or was it the other way round?). I can't remember DOOM much, that was when I just started gaming and wasnt into it much. Halflife had RL atmosphere, the 3 side battles etc which Doom didnt.
 
I find the doom story to be fairly plausible. The game makes it out that demons are just as real as you or me but from another dimension. Also they are bent on integrating our bodies and technology into themselves to better strike at us.

Also about the nuke thing. Assuming doomguy is the only man left on mars, there's no one on mars to opperate any sort of nuclear device. Also it takes several months for any sort of rocket to reach mars from earth. Another thing, if i remember correctly the storyline for the doom series was that after doomguy gets back to earth after stopping the demonic forces on mars, he finds earth plagued with many demons and few survivors.

So technically earth had its own problems while the shit was hitting the fan on mars.
 
Originally posted by Ro@cH
His comment (if one man is able to take them down, so why should we bother in killing them) could just as well be applied to half-life.
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You have take the time to read slower Roach.

And comparing Jesus to the Doom marine is nearly blasphemy, not that I care but just so that you know.
 
the plots are similar in term of something threatening humanity and human must fight to survive, but the ennemy threatenning humanity is different. I know Demons work fine in scaring the shit out of most of us. but I don't see how Demons from the hell can be a threat to the humanity, they don't have high tech stuff, they are stupid creatures like zombie, most of them still use physical strength to fight, they fight with claw, mouth etc like animals, if they are able to pick up the Chainsaw why don't they use automatic rifle instead ( i know it's to make it more scary), if those lost soul can demonize all human being on Mars, how come the protagonist can survive and kill off the demo as he is the predator. All these just seems thoughtless as a science fiction story. However i will still buy doom3 cuz i'm also a mindless player.

In hl2, it's not just a street fight, it's a war amoung different races (human, combine and other creatures), a war that will define who's the one, who's the superpredator. The combine soldiers are not mindless animals but another superpredator with high tech that could threaten humanity. See how Gordon manipulates a bunch of mindless antlions with pheromone in the video; other creatures with super physical strengh but low intellegence will only be enslaved or died. Also Gordon is not a one man's army. i find the plot in hl2 will be better than the one in hl1.
 
From what little I know about DOOM's plot, it seems that it is about "you versus aliens/demons". What made HL different IMO was how the plot was more "other folks versus aliens and you just want to get away"
The best sequences in HL were the ones that had huge AI battles between the grunts and the bugs and you just want to get past.

Also HL had plenty of small details that augmented the basic plot beyond just a simple matter of escaping. There were so many ambiguous plot points in the game that new stuff adds each time you play. For example, in the ending sequence with G-man, he shows you that tanks and soldiers have already been sent to xen, but how and why is never explained. And when you find out that Black Mesa has been warping in aliens for at least several months and are studying them in complex labs. It makes the story much more complex than "Oh no, there are aliens - I will shoot them."
 
You guys need to play more RPGs before screaming about "best plot ever".
 
Originally posted by gamevoodoo
but I don't see how Demons from the hell can be a threat to the humanity, they don't have high tech stuff, they are stupid creatures like zombie, most of them still use physical strength to fight, they fight with claw, mouth etc like animals
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In Doom(1,2,3) the enemies are, as you say, low-tech. Flying Debris mentions that earth was also infested by aliens in Doom1(or 2). You, who had just singlehandedly ended the invasion on mars, came home to see that there was much much more work to be done. The Doom hero is making an odyssee. Just when he thinks it is all over, and he can sit down and relax, the plot turns around and takes you by surprise. That's what makes the plot of Doom richer than we think it is. It's probably because most of us here on the forums were fairly young when playing Doom1 and 2, so we missed or forgot a whole lot of the story. Who cares that it was in text-form, after each mission or after every few missions. It's a good plot in my opinion.

And the comparison between the Doom marine and Jesus is not meant as blasphemy. It's to show that all the stories we tell and have ever told, have a core that stays the same. Good versus evil. No matter how you twist and turn things, it always comes down to that. That was what I wanted to illustrate by my analogy with religion.
 
actualy ro@ch that it probably one of the few times somone has been able to accuratley create a link between a video game Hero and the Bible's hero. Regardless of anyone feelings on religion; if taken on the the level you use them; everyone must agree that your analogy is correct. They are both heros of a story and their motivations are identical. I'm going to remember how you phrased that to use against any bible thumper who starts preaching about playing video games being a sin. Thanks.
 
Para: Please stop that attitude you've got going. You're not impressing anybody on this board with that behaviour of being more enlightened. If you've got an opinion, I suggest that you post them in a nicer manner and stop insulting people and their opinions... Thank you.
 
i really want to play doom3 coop, 4 people is more than enough for doom3's horror theme, cuz with too many players, like Sven coop, it will be totally chaos and not scary at all. I'm also looking forward to hl2 coop, developping by Sven coop team, i hope it will be more serious.
 
Let's keep the flaming down and the discussion up.

I'm going to reply to Mr.Reak.
You guys need to play more RPGs before screaming about "best plot ever".
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The universal story-line I've described in my previous post(s) also applies to RPG's of course. I'm quite a fan of the genre, it can be very immersive. Last good RPG's I played were FFVII and FFVIII, and both their stories I liked very much.
I don't think we've said in this thread that HL1,2 or D1,2,3 had/will have the 'best plot ever'. There isn't a 'best plot'. What is generally agreed upon that both stories have basically a good plot. People are often blinded by the fragfest type of gameplay in D1,2 so they forget about the plot. Also, the Dooms are games that were popular quite some time ago. Most of us have forgotten about or never cared for the plot of the Doom series. In fact, there are people that like the Doom plot alot more, because it gives the player a stonger feeling that he is a hero than Half-Life did.
RPG's generally depend on the plot rather than on creating a (semi)realistic environment (by realistic I mean that it can be grasped by the human mind). If the story in an RPG makes the world in that game realistic, then that is considered sufficient. A FPS game makes the in-game environment realistic through it's look and feel. I'm not saying RPG's haven't got realistic looks, I'm saying that the story in an RPG makes the world complete and that is what the player likes to experience. In the FPS genre, that world is made complete mainly by interaction with the environment, the atmosphere, the tension, the lighting, etc.
 
Originally posted by Wilco
A story is not just about What happens. Its about setting, Surroundings, atmosphere and more. I think you could easily write a book about HL, tho it might need some embellished character interaction for some dialogue :). Halo was based on a book (or was it the other way round?). I can't remember DOOM much, that was when I just started gaming and wasnt into it much. Halflife had RL atmosphere, the 3 side battles etc which Doom didnt.
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There actually is a Doom book, maybe multiple Doom books. I agree with what "dis" said. People blow Half-Life's plot out of proportion and make it seem as if it had some award-winning story. Doom and Half-Life's plots both involve monsters from another dimension. Neither plot is that good or that original.
 
Hero With a Thousand Faces

A good book on the hero topic is Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces. He researched stories/myths/religion from many cultures and found that almost all cultures' stories have stories that share a "Hero Cycle." See Hero Cycle

As for enemies, technology has been getting better at giving us enemies who are big, powerful, and visually scary. DoomIII pushes this to the limit and will be frightening at a very primal level. Enemies have improved over time in this area by being better at survival (read: AI, dodging, group tactics, ambush)

I think games are just starting to allow sophisticated enemies that are convincing -- enemies with motivation, who scheme, deceive, betray, manipulate, corrupt, etc. RPGs have had these elements for some time, and it will be interesting to see how complex an FPS can get in this department before it doesn't feel like an FPS anymore. Deus Ex?
 
I've read about the Hero Cycle (http://www.mvc.dcccd.edu/ArtScien/Engl/INSTRUCT/grimes/2371/HeroCycles.htm) and I'm sure this is fairly applicable to Half-Life. I would really like to be able to apply this onto the old Doom story but I do not remember it well enough, pity. Now the 4 basic steps in the cycle are Separation, Departure, Transformation, Return. Read the above url for in-depth information.
Separation: Gordon Freeman is separated from the outside world by the resonance cascade. A barrier of aliens is placed between him and the outside world. He is forced to undetake a journey before he can Return.
Departure: Departure involves joining a fellow traveler. In the case of Half-Life, the fellow traveler is G-man. He keeps you motivated to stay on the move. You pursue him because you know he can help you Return. He is the drive of the journey, along with the yearning for home.
Transformation: The military is trying to wipe out all the scientists, especially Gordon. Gordon transforms from being a good and respected scientist, into a rebel, fighting for himself and for mankind.
Return: The Return in Half-Life isn't really a return. Your fellow traveler (G-man) does not want you to reach your ultimate goal. He enslaves you, so you can not finish your journey. This is where the HL plot deviates from the standard tradition of hero cycles. It's what makes the plot different in it's own special kind of way.
 
It is easily possible for an intellectually inferior race to defeat humans, IF, they are physically superior enough and have strength of numbers.

Have you seen Starship Troopers, in this film the human race goes to war against ant like aliens, only to be totally wiped out on their first attack because the aliens had numbers and resilience on their side. It was completely believable. They could not nuke the alien planet because they live in hives, also they could destroy ships in orbit.

If a species is highly evolved enough, i'm sure it could take out humans, especially if they invaded, where humand would be loathe to nuke their own planet.

HL2 would still be believable even if only masses of antlions and their kin had invaded, granted, it does make it MORE believable when the combine are involved, who appear to have superior technology to humans.
 
Originally posted by Ro@cH
And the comparison between the Doom marine and Jesus is not meant as blasphemy. It's to show that all the stories we tell and have ever told, have a core that stays the same. Good versus evil. No matter how you twist and turn things, it always comes down to that. That was what I wanted to illustrate by my analogy with religion.
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Well you could have compared Duke Nukem with Christ then, he fights "evil" as well. Or any other FPS hero for that matter. These are just video games, there is no right or wrong: that is exactly why we indulge ourselves in playing them. The good versus evil theme is just for story line purposes, there is not one shred of morality in FPS games.
 
thats the whole point of his argument. all heros of story have the same common denominator's. And as for morality i video games it would depend on your view of morality. i could say that video games are the epitomy of Slave Morality as defined by Nieztche. in so much as it allows people to act out their carnal instincts in a a manner that has no bearing on the world around them. Allowing them to still exist in an acceptable manner in a community. Is slave moraility not a form of morality?
 
Originally posted by Animal
It is easily possible for an intellectually inferior race to defeat humans, IF, they are physically superior enough and have strength of numbers.......They could not nuke the alien planet because they live in hives, also they could destroy ships in orbit.....
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If it's easily possible, then we don't even need alien or stuff from other planet, we could be very well invaded by other animals or species on the Earth. How could they be "physically superior enough", how big do they have to be? how much strengh do they need to have? is Dinosaur big and strong enough? Dinosaur is not even able to surive and it's eliminated by the nature, many scientific preuves shows that human co-exist with dinosaur at the same periode, but human did survive. (some hypothesis show that dinosaur is eliminated by meteo, but not enough preuve since human still exist). Don't u still think that human is most superious creature in the world and that we rule other creatures by our intelligence and tech? Of course, we human are not stronger than the nature, but we can adapte to the nature and survive.

back to the nuking alien topic, I don't see how we can't nuke them if they live in the hive, it's just the movie maker try to manipulate the audience. First of all we can nuke their environment to affect the alien's living condition, see the radiation effect that last for decades in russia after the nuclear factor explosion.(i.e. the radiation will affect the DNA of the alien and make them to develop small penis so that they can't reproduce as fast). Second of all, is nuclear weapon the only thing we have? we human try to conquer the nature by learning progressively everything in the nature, atomic, chemical, physics, mechanical, etc. Do we really have to land on their planet to eliminate them with human soldiers?? that's so ridiculous. we could use biological virus or chemcial weapon. if they don't work, then give them some alcohol or blow. have u seen Gozilla got killed?
 
Para: Exactly my point. I could have compared Duke with Christ. We can compare Lara Croft with Christ. We can compare Mario with Christ. Because of human nature, we like hero-stories. Every story that has a hero can be compared to the Bible, because it has a hero named Christ.
there is not one shred of morality in FPS games.
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Video games can be compared to movies: Most movies have a happy ending: The good guys win. Some movies don't have a happy ending. Some games don't have a happy ending (cfr HL1). One could conclude that every story, if it has a happy ending, has a moral, namely "Good always wins, Evil always loses". This is another analogy with the Bible. If the story doesn't have a happy ending, it might bring across a diferent moral, that tries to teach us something. It would be exciting to hear from VALVe if they tried to get a moral across in HL1, and what it was exactly. The question simply comes down to this: What is the basic moral of every story that has an unhappy ending?
 
yeah like Christ_D, i was wondering whether Christ_D got the real hl2 leak demo.
 
Originally posted by HiroProtaganist
... in so much as it allows people to act out their carnal instincts in a a manner that has no bearing on the world around them. Allowing them to still exist in an acceptable manner in a community. Is slave moraility not a form of morality?
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Excellent point,Hiro. Why do people like games? They can experience things they cannot experience in real life, because of the limits of our physical, mental and cognital capabilities. They can do things they cannot do in real life because of society, our conscience and, for some,our beliefs. If you are someone who is convinced that killing a person in real life is considered 'evil' or (can't find the word) dispicable(?), do you then also think the same when you do it in un-reality(be it a game, a dream,etc)? I for one, don't. You play the role of a hero in a game. A hero that wants to reach a certain goal. You put yourself in the position of the hero and perform acts that you wouldn't even want to do in real life. That is where you escape from reality and get a new freedom.
 
Well I pondered your post while making some sandwiches in the kitchen and I still can't understand what similarities can bring Mario and Jesus together. Mario might be a "hero" in a video game which we all know is just a video game (except Animal who gets aroused by the Princess and Toad) but that's all there is to it: a video game. Jesus was not made of pixels and didn't endorse Nintendo in any way. LoL :)
 
Yeah, you can't compare Doomguy to Jesus just because they both fight evil. I hate it when people try to make something with little substance into something profound.
Doom did not have an original plotline. If you look around a bit, many of it's ideas originated in the 1950's and 1960's when cheesy sci-fi movies were popular. This doesn't mean I think Doom sucks; and yes this does mean that HL also did not have an original plot.
However, HL did have the most amazing story (let's call it experience) ever. Unlike other games which use disconnected means of narration ie. cinematics, page full of words and, in the case of most RPG's, walking around clicking/using things, HL did it in real time. This allowed Valve to really control the pacing, delivery, tension and atmosphere of the game- they could really author a unique and amazing experience.
A kid would rather have their mom or dad tell them a simple story (while immitating voices, slowing down at the scary parts and adding their own bits where appropriate), than a stranger read a complex story in an inane way.

Oh, and HL enemies rock. First time I got caught by a barnacle= :eek: .
Same with icthyosaur(sp?).
I also think smart humans (or combine) are more fun to fight because they make for sweet gunfights. But HL also had slaves, zombies and headcrabs for tense, survival fights.
From Doom 3 so far, the enemies just seem to run towards the player.
I guess if they're scary that makes it fun anyways.. and the wall climbing guy looks cool.
 
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