UK Public Smoking Ban - July 1st

[Absinthe]

I know exactly what you mean. I would never have found my current best friend if we hadn't turned up at the dealers house simultaneously looking to score some K.

:O

Yes, our meeting has more to do with circumstance than the actual smoking itself. But from my personal experience, I've had quite a few benefits from smoking. Even if it's something as trivial as an ice-breaker. Worth the occasional cough, and I haven't been diagnosed with cancer yet. Usually at this point, somebody likes to point out how much money I've spent on my habit over the years. My only response is that if I wasn't spending my cash on cigarettes, I'd be spending it on something else like booze or another drug.

Was it some good K?

 

[Raziaar]

:O

Yes, our meeting has more to do with circumstance than the actual smoking itself. But from my personal experience, I've had quite a few benefits from smoking. Even if it's something as trivial as an ice-breaker. Worth the occasional cough, and I haven't been diagnosed with cancer yet.

Was it some good K?

You're for the most part too young. It will happen in time, don't worry.

Hopefully by then though, you'll have a cure.

 

[NeptuneUK]

I still don't get smoking tobacco. I have tried it.. it wasn't particularly pleasant. Not to say that it was unpleasant.... 'Meh' is the appropriate word.
It does not smell or taste nice.

 

[Absinthe]

You're for the most part too young. It will happen in time, don't worry.

My grandfather smoked up until he was 75. He's over 80 now and he is very much alive and well.

Cancer is not an inevitability. And to be quite honest, I engage in a fair number of other substances/activities that are arguably more physically unhealthy or even dangerous. At least in terms of immediacy. Smoking is one of the least of my concerns.

 

[NeptuneUK]

My grandfather smoked up until he was 75. He's over 80 now and he is very much alive and well.

That's the thing with smoking, it doesn't 'give' you cancer, it just greatly increases the CHANCES of it occurring. Though exact values given from studies are arguable.

 

[Ennui]

Taste I'll give you that one! I guess eating nicotine is awful! Oh and benefits to social life.




I've been missing out all these years!! Wait..... that isn't based on scientific fact! *shakes fist*


Everyone still wants to know why the less dangerous substance known as cannabis is not legal, it's much less harmful than; tobacco, alcohol, paracetamol, cars and spackers (which are all legal)

Don't even get me started on the LOL CIGARETTES AND ALCOHOL ARE SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE WHILE MARIJUANA IS EVIL DEATH tirade. I smoke cannabis fairly regularly, usually 1-3 times a week (I find that when I smoke more than that I get a bit mentally sluggish) and cigarettes occasionally (weekends, mostly, when I'm drinking... I'm not addicted and don't really plan to be, but it's not a problem at the moment), and I am FAR more paranoid about health risks from the alcohol and cigarettes (and we're only talking a few cigarettes with moderate drinking, once a week at the most) than I am about those from cannabis.

This is an indisputable fact and I don't care what anybody else says. IT'S A GOD DAMN AXIOM.

Neptune, I'm getting the strong sense that this discussion has moved from "public health issues" to a "why smoking is absolutely horrid and you shouldn't do it" tirade. I can only think of the memorable Bill Hicks' comedy routine...

Definitely on the first part. I only drink hard liquor (don't like mixed drinks or beer) and cigarettes ease it on its way down somehow, which is a real plus, and the nicotine kicks the alcohol up a notch.

I listened to that Hicks routine a few days ago... hilarious. "Who here DOESN'T smoke?" *crowd cheers* "Bunch of spineless, sniveling worms, aren't they?"

 

[Raziaar]

My grandfather smoked up until he was 75. He's over 80 now and he is very much alive and well.

Cancer is not an inevitability. And to be quite honest, I engage in a fair number of other substances/activities that are arguably more physically unhealthy or even dangerous. At least in terms of immediacy. Smoking is one of the least of my concerns.

Look at all the cancer cases of elderly people who smoked alot in their life. I wouldn't be so confident that you'll be in that minority.

In the united states, lung cancer is one of the largest killers, and the leading cause of cancer deaths in males, who are more susceptible than women.

I know in my life, cancer is not something I'm willing to risk for social reasons. I'd much rather have the social interaction without smoking.

 

[Absinthe]

It's the largest killer, but it does not kill the majority of smokers.

I doubt I'll be smoking forever, but in the end I don't really care at the moment. I'll take my chances. And if I do get cancer and subsequently die, that's my issue to deal with. I can do without lectures.

I listened to that Hicks routine a few days ago... hilarious. "Who here DOESN'T smoke?" *crowd cheers* "Bunch of spineless, sniveling worms, aren't they?"

Heh, really. "Obnoxious, self-righteous slugs. You are the worst advertisement for non-smoking... I'd quit smoking if I didn't think I'd become one of you."

 

[Raziaar]

It's the largest killer, but it does not kill the majority of smokers.

I doubt I'll be smoking forever, but in the end I don't really care at the moment. I'll take my chances. And if I do get cancer and subsequently die, that's my issue to deal with. I can do without lectures.

I'm not lecturing. Just making a comment. I couldn't care less, as long as you don't smoke near me.

 

[StardogChampion]

The funniest thing is that Hicks died of cancer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041108011932.htm

 

[NeptuneUK]

The funniest thing is that Hicks died of cancer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041108011932.htm

Funny? Or ironic.

 

[Raziaar]

Don't worry, his cancer death was completely unrelated to his smoking.

 

[Absinthe]

Of course, because, y'know, I was totally unaware of his cause of death.

You really just make his words even more valid.

 

[Raziaar]

Of course, because, y'know, I was totally unaware of his cause of death.

You really just make his words even more valid.

Heh. I'm just being light hearted. I'm not telling you to not smoke, or warning you that you'll die if you do.

I say have at it. Smoke a pack for me.

 

[NeptuneUK]

^ Don't! Smoke a joint for your BEST FRIEND EV0R, NeptuneUK instead.

 

[Ennui]

I will dedicate my next bowl to you two, and surely Absinthe will think of you as he chainsmokes his next pack.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

There is a pub in Sussex in which the landlord is imposing a ban on non smokers in his pub. Every 30 minutes non smokers are forced outside for 10 minutes while smokers can have a cig. This is what more landlords need to start doing... give all the whiny non smokers something to really whine about.

I hope he's ok with losing some business.

Ever been camping?

As long as you have a campfire burning, it's like having 10 people smoke cigarettes around you.

Second hand is a lot cooler (temperature wise) than smoke from a fire and so it lingers about eye level. A good clean wood fire will have smoke going straight up into the air.

cigarettes ease it on its way down somehow

Because it destroys your sense of taste and smell (and lines your throat with mucus). You ever heard of the smokers diet? People losing weight through smoking. What happens is their taste buds and nasal receptors shrivel and die or become numb and food is just not as pleasing anymore, so they eat less.

I don't see why you guys are so scared. You act as if your life will have no more meaning if you cannot smoke wherever you want. You try to reason that this is nothing but an imposition on your freedom. While I do somewhat agree, this is no different than our limited freedom to public drunkenness or nudity or certain recreational forms of self-harm. The majority has judged this smoking to be a personal similar act that should not be shared with people whom do not want experience your exotic, questionable pleasure. Arguing over the potential health cautions and on what scale they exist is meaningless.

Smoking is a destructive habit. The toxins are more harmful than what any car produces. Properly running cars emit mostly water vapor and CO2, and negligible amounts of CO3, and what do you know, you get fined a healthy sum if your car is found to not meet certain standards of emission.
Campfires are again, a personal experience. They are not allowed within city limits unless well contained and out of the eye of the public.

Marijuana is illegal because it is a mind altering substance, much like alcohol. They were both made illegal here for the same reasons, but alcohol survived because people made a much bigger fuss about it. Consider them to be in the same boat regardless.

My grandmother smokes.
She is about 80 years old, and his been smoking for about 60 years. Smoking may not have given her cancer, but you know the one major difference between her and an 80 year old non smoker? The color of her lungs. Mine will be bright pink or red when I turn 80 because I fear them turning black and useless like hers have. Yes she is alive and looks good for her age. Does she breath well? Probably not. Can she engage in much physical activity? Hell no. Will she die from her lungs being encrusted with decay? Who knows. All I know is she coughs all the time and my mom has asthma. I myself am allergic to cigarettes probably for being birthed from an asthmatic who was raised by a smoker.

Smoking causes stress. If you feel a relief from stress while smoking it is because you are addicted and the stress you feel comes from needing to smoke. You smoke to relieve this stress from not smoking, and the cycle repeats indefinitely.

Smoking socially helps you not look bored because it makes it appear as if you are doing something, or it helps you pretend to be interested in something. This is pathetic and deceptive.

The vast income generated by tobacco could be put to much better use, but it is used only to farm more tobacco, and make CEOs rich, and smokers poor. The number of people working for tobacco companies are not a productive part of society. They could spend their time cleaning carrots and be much more valuable to society.

Cigarette smoke clings to smokers clothes, hands, face and other objects they smoke around. It turns your fingers and eyes yellow and wrinkles your skin. It destroys the interior of your car and home and lowers it's market value. Vast amounts of cigarettes require vast amounts paper and are thus a source of deforestation, compounding their negative effect on atmosphere.
(Only "high grade" cigarettes use flax)

I have to go to work now.

 

[NeptuneUK]

I hope he's ok with losing some business.


Second hand is a lot cooler (temperature wise) than smoke from a fire and so it lingers about eye level. A good clean wood fire will have smoke going straight up into the air.


Because it destroys your sense of taste and smell (and lines your throat with mucus). You ever heard of the smokers diet? People losing weight through smoking. What happens is their taste buds and nasal receptors shrivel and die or become numb and food is just not as pleasing anymore, so they eat less.

I don't see why you guys are so scared. You act as if your life will have no more meaning if you cannot smoke wherever you want. You try to reason that this is nothing but an imposition on your freedom. While I do somewhat agree, this is no different than our limited freedom to public drunkenness or nudity or certain recreational forms of self-harm. The majority has judged this smoking to be a personal similar act that should not be shared with people whom do not want experience your exotic, questionable pleasure. Arguing over the potential health cautions and on what scale they exist is meaningless.

Smoking is a destructive habit. The toxins are more harmful than what any car produces. Properly running cars emit mostly water vapor and CO2, and negligible amounts of CO3, and what do you know, you get fined a healthy sum if your car is found to not meet certain standards of emission.
Campfires are again, a personal experience. They are not allowed within city limits unless well contained and out of the eye of the public.

Marijuana is illegal because it is a mind altering substance, much like alcohol. They were both made illegal here for the same reasons, but alcohol survived because people made a much bigger fuss about it. Consider them to be in the same boat regardless.

My grandmother smokes.
She is about 80 years old, and his been smoking for about 60 years. Smoking may not have given her cancer, but you know the one major difference between her and an 80 year old non smoker? The color of her lungs. Mine will be bright pink or red when I turn 80 because I fear them turning black and useless like hers have. Yes she is alive and looks good for her age. Does she breath well? Probably not. Can she engage in much physical activity? Hell no. Will she die from her lungs being encrusted with decay? Who knows. All I know is she coughs all the time and my mom has asthma. I myself am allergic to cigarettes probably for being birthed from an asthmatic who was raised by a smoker.

Smoking causes stress. If you feel a relief from stress while smoking it is because you are addicted and the stress you feel comes from needing to smoke. You smoke to relieve this stress from not smoking, and the cycle repeats indefinitely.

Smoking socially helps you not look bored because it makes it appear as if you are doing something, or it helps you pretend to be interested in something. This is pathetic and deceptive.

The vast income generated by tobacco could be put to much better use, but it is used only to farm more tobacco, and make CEOs rich, and smokers poor. The number of people working for tobacco companies are not a productive part of society. They could spend their time cleaning carrots and be much more valuable to society.

Cigarette smoke clings to smokers clothes, hands, face and other objects they smoke around. It turns your fingers and eyes yellow and wrinkles your skin. It destroys the interior of your car and home and lowers it's market value. Vast amounts of cigarettes require vast amounts paper and are thus a source of deforestation, compounding their negative effect on atmosphere.
(Only "high grade" cigarettes use flax)

I have to go to work now.

http://www***ssianembassy.org/RUSSIA/images/putin.jpg

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I did a search to see if Putin smokes, and I still don't know, but I did find this:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health..._smoke_damage_to_a/index.html?source=r_health

 

[tehsolace]

I've always been on the fence with the issues of legalized alcohol, cigarettes, and especially marijuana. I've read (although can't confirm) that even the tolerance and dependency of marijuana can be countered by simply smoking it only once a week.

On one hand, I see them as a danger to people's health (I don't care as much for the people around them as I do the actual people). But on the other hand, most sodas are dangerous to people's health too, with as much sugar as there is in one. I eat sweets all the time... and I certainly wouldn't like anyone outlawing sugar-substances.

 

[Absinthe]

I don't see why you guys are so scared. You act as if your life will have no more meaning if you cannot smoke wherever you want.

Scared? Far from it. Smokers get annoyed and we leap to the conclusion that the value they place on their lives hinges on where they can smoke? Wow. What an asshole. Compound my irritation with the accusation of being deceptive and pathetic. Bravo. Wanna climb down from your high horse before breaking your neck?

Nothing needs to be said in detail about your notion of charital obligation on the part of Big Tobacco. This is capitalism. Free enterprise. Supply and demand. The "usefulness" of a corporation is irrelevent.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Not my problem if you took it so personally so am not going to argue those points.

 

[Absinthe]

You'll have to excuse me if I take insult to people calling me deceptive or desparate. Those aren't points. They're fallacious generalizations and misrepresentations.

 

[Ennui]

I wrote this huge post but then the site went down for an hour so I couldn't post it, lol. Luckily I saved it.

Second hand is a lot cooler (temperature wise) than smoke from a fire and so it lingers about eye level. A good clean wood fire will have smoke going straight up into the air.

Regardless, similar effects, and I imagine the fact that there's usually at least a breeze will counteract what you just said. Either way, I retracted that earlier in the thread, after Raziaar responded.

Because it destroys your sense of taste and smell (and lines your throat with mucus). You ever heard of the smokers diet? People losing weight through smoking. What happens is their taste buds and nasal receptors shrivel and die or become numb and food is just not as pleasing anymore, so they eat less.

Yeah, like I said, it helps it go down. I wasn't saying it did so benevolently.

I don't see why you guys are so scared. You act as if your life will have no more meaning if you cannot smoke wherever you want. You try to reason that this is nothing but an imposition on your freedom.

Because it is. There's no reason to limit smoking (mind you, I'm speaking of outdoor smoking, indoor smoking CAN pose a health risk to other people), so it should not be limited.

While I do somewhat agree, this is no different than our limited freedom to public drunkenness or nudity or certain recreational forms of self-harm. The majority has judged this smoking to be a personal similar act that should not be shared with people whom do not want experience your exotic, questionable pleasure. Arguing over the potential health cautions and on what scale they exist is meaningless.

It IS different. Smoking does not make people act inappropriate and has no inappropriate effect on other people. It's nothing like public inebriation or nudity, and to compare it to a "recreational form of self-harm" is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard, because while it IS bad for you, it's nothing like self-mutilation or cutting. It's more comparable to eating unhealthily... I believe heart disease (often due to unhealthy diet) is the leading killer in the USA? Yet we don't impose sanctions on a person's diet, and I'll be damned if I don't make a stink about the government imposing its idea of what is proper on us as citizens, because that's really essentially legislating morality, which is tricky and should be avoided in all but the most self-evident, extreme cases (murder, rape, etc).

Smoking is a destructive habit. The toxins are more harmful than what any car produces. Properly running cars emit mostly water vapor and CO2, and negligible amounts of CO3, and what do you know, you get fined a healthy sum if your car is found to not meet certain standards of emission.

Are you trying to say that for the average person today, secondhand smoke poses a more dire health risk than carbon emissions from cars? That seems like a ridiculous claim to me.

Campfires are again, a personal experience. They are not allowed within city limits unless well contained and out of the eye of the public.

My point was that there are a hell of a lot of things in the world that are harmful to you as an individual, and secondhand smoke is not one of the more pressing ones.

Marijuana is illegal because it is a mind altering substance, much like alcohol. They were both made illegal here for the same reasons, but alcohol survived because people made a much bigger fuss about it. Consider them to be in the same boat regardless.

They aren't in the same boat, because in this situation, legality is everything.

My grandmother smokes.
She is about 80 years old, and his been smoking for about 60 years. Smoking may not have given her cancer, but you know the one major difference between her and an 80 year old non smoker? The color of her lungs. Mine will be bright pink or red when I turn 80 because I fear them turning black and useless like hers have. Yes she is alive and looks good for her age. Does she breath well? Probably not. Can she engage in much physical activity? Hell no. Will she die from her lungs being encrusted with decay? Who knows. All I know is she coughs all the time and my mom has asthma. I myself am allergic to cigarettes probably for being birthed from an asthmatic who was raised by a smoker.

I am sorry. My grandmother's been smoking for a million years as well.

Smoking causes stress. If you feel a relief from stress while smoking it is because you are addicted and the stress you feel comes from needing to smoke. You smoke to relieve this stress from not smoking, and the cycle repeats indefinitely.

I'm not addicted to cigarettes, and I get no anxiety from not smoking. I test myself every once in a while to be sure (take a few week break from weekend smoking) and I've never had any problems. Smoking certainly relieves stress for me, temporarily... this is because, contrary to popular belief, nicotine IS psychoactive.

Smoking socially helps you not look bored because it makes it appear as if you are doing something, or it helps you pretend to be interested in something. This is pathetic and deceptive.

That's not social, that's being alone and smoking a cigarette. Smoking CAN be social, because if you go have a cigarette with someone, you talk, rather than just stare at your cigarette. There's a certain very relaxed, chill quality to sitting on a porch somewhere smoking cigarettes with someone.

The vast income generated by tobacco could be put to much better use, but it is used only to farm more tobacco, and make CEOs rich, and smokers poor. The number of people working for tobacco companies are not a productive part of society. They could spend their time cleaning carrots and be much more valuable to society.

We live in a country where the economic structure is based heavily off capitalism. Businesses are not concerned, at the core, with how valuable they are to society. They pretend to be, but it's just marketing. Our economy is based off of making money, so if you're going to go after cigarette companies alone, you best widen it to just about every business in the damn country.

Cigarette smoke clings to smokers clothes, hands, face and other objects they smoke around. It turns your fingers and eyes yellow and wrinkles your skin. It destroys the interior of your car and home and lowers it's market value. Vast amounts of cigarettes require vast amounts paper and are thus a source of deforestation, compounding their negative effect on atmosphere.
(Only "high grade" cigarettes use flax)

Eating a lot of crappy food makes you fat. Smoking turns your eyes and teeth yellow and makes you smell like smoke. It's your own damn decision to look gross or smell bad. The government doesn't regulate showering or eating or cosmetics. It's also your own decision to destroy or damage your property, so who the hell cares in what ways a smoker depreciates the value of their own property, whether you're talking about their lungs or their car.

Books take vast amounts of paper too. There are a lot more huge sources of deforestation than cigarettes, your arguments are getting ridiculous. We acknowledge that smoking is bad, but this argument is not about that, it's about smoking, society, and legality, and none of these points you've made at all back up why smoking should be restricted or illegal, except in certain indoor situations which we've already conceded. There are far more pressing problems in society than those that cigarettes are even partially responsible for, and as we're not taking action against those (feeble attempts at reform aside), it's ridiculous to suggest that we take action against those that cigarettes are responsible for, because it's blatant hypocrisy.

We've been repeating ourselves for the past three pages. Would you mind actually reading our posts and thinking about our viewpoint, then arguing about the topic at hand, rather than trying to drag the discussion into some kind of moral debate that's not necessary or even really relevant?

I've always been on the fence with the issues of legalized alcohol, cigarettes, and especially marijuana. I've read (although can't confirm) that even the tolerance and dependency of marijuana can be countered by simply smoking it only once a week.

All I can say about the issue of marijuana is research it and the question of whether or not it should be legal becomes an answer. There is no dependency for marijuana; you cannot become physically addicted like you can to alcohol, cigarettes, heroin, etc. There are no withdrawal symptoms (besides possible short-term anxiety and insomnia for chronic users) and the only real physical side effect that persists beyond the few hours of inebriation is vague short-term memory loss that ceases after you stop smoking. Read the page I linked, especially the things dealing with marijuana myths, and draw your own conclusions. It's certainly safer than alcohol or cigarettes in both the short and long term. I've not smoked regularly for the past three years and in that time I've managed to hold a 4.4 GPA, ace the SAT (99th percentile on both sections) and SAT IIs, etc. Marijuana doesn't make you stupid or lazy. It provides insight, sideways perspective, sensory enhancement, and a damn good time. I love to smoke a bowl, then relax and watch a movie / eat food with friends. When I write papers for school (that I almost always get an A on, including several perfect grades from a teacher who is not inclined to give them often) I write them sober, then read them and edit them high, then go back over them sober... and since I've been doing that my grades have actually improved, heh.

 

[Absinthe]

Not to turn this into a cannabis topic, but ditto. There really is no rational justification for keeping marijuana illegal. People rant about a "stoned society", but last I checked (and visited), Holland was doing fine. Hell, the percentage of cannabis smokers in that country is actually less than in the United States. The gateway theory is bunk, and there would obviously be restrictions placed on the drug if it were made legal (ie. no smoking while driving). It is practically impossible to overdose on it and it has been scientifically proven to be less hazardous than either cigarettes or alcohol.

 

[Sierra Oscar]

We have had the ban here in Ireland for ages...it all depends on whether the public accepts or not. We did here....but if everyone continues to smoke it wont work....because ill tell you the Police wont likely be able to enforce it if it is not accepted...

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

You'll have to excuse me if I take insult to people calling me deceptive or desparate. Those aren't points. They're fallacious generalizations and misrepresentations.

Unless you do it solely for the reasons I stated, then my comment does not apply to you. Of course you will be insulted if you apply it to yourself.

There's no reason to limit smoking, so it should not be limited.

Opinion. Mine is different. I believe all forms of deliberate smoke inhalation should be forgotten. The children of the generation that sees this will not be missing anything. This alone justifies my stance.

..and to compare it to a "recreational form of self-harm" is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard, because while it IS bad for you, it's nothing like self-mutilation or cutting. It's more comparable to eating unhealthily... I believe heart disease (often due to unhealthy diet) is the leading killer in the USA? Yet we don't impose sanctions on a person's diet, and I'll be damned if I don't make a stink about the government imposing its idea of what is proper on us as citizens, because that's really essentially legislating morality, which is tricky and should be avoided in all but the most self-evident, extreme cases (murder, rape, etc).

Semantics. FDA. Enough said.

Are you trying to say that for the average person today, secondhand smoke poses a more dire health risk than carbon emissions from cars? That seems like a ridiculous claim to me.

That depends on your exposure, now doesn't it?

My point was that there are a hell of a lot of things in the world that are harmful to you as an individual, and secondhand smoke is not one of the more pressing ones.

Tell that to all of the children who have no choice but to be around their chain-smoking parents.

They aren't in the same boat, because in this situation, legality is everything.

Explain how legality is everything in this situation. Get caught smoking pot while driving, go to jail. Get caught drinking while driving, go to jail. Smoke in public, go to jail. Drink in public outside the bounds of an establishment, get fined or go to jail. Do these things behind closed doors, nobody knows or cares.

I'm not addicted to cigarettes, and I get no anxiety from not smoking. I test myself every once in a while to be sure (take a few week break from weekend smoking) and I've never had any problems. Smoking certainly relieves stress for me, temporarily... this is because, contrary to popular belief, nicotine IS psychoactive.

You are an exception to the rule, probably because you are young and resilient.

That's not social, that's being alone and smoking a cigarette. Smoking CAN be social, because if you go have a cigarette with someone, you talk, rather than just stare at your cigarette. There's a certain very relaxed, chill quality to sitting on a porch somewhere smoking cigarettes with someone.

Another opinion, and only smokers think this. For me and other non smokers (not saying all) there is a very tense, uncomfortable atmosphere having to breathe something that makes my eyes water, my throat parched, and skin itch, and the person who's talking to me breath stink.

We live in a country where the economic structure is based heavily off capitalism. Businesses are not concerned, at the core, with how valuable they are to society. They pretend to be, but it's just marketing. Our economy is based off of making money, so if you're going to go after cigarette companies alone, you best widen it to just about every business in the damn country.

It is what it is, but it doesn't have to be that way forever. When big tobacco falls, nothing will change. The money people used to spend on smokes? It will just be spent on other habits and hobbies. I'm betting ethanol companies will make good use of the recovered farmland.

It's your own damn decision to look gross or smell bad. The government doesn't regulate showering or eating or cosmetics. It's also your own decision to destroy or damage your property, so who the hell cares in what ways a smoker depreciates the value of their own property, whether you're talking about their lungs or their car.

It is your decision. It's your right. It's also my decision and my right to criticize you if that's what you do. If you don't want to be criticized, don't do it.

Books take vast amounts of paper too. There are a lot more huge sources of deforestation than cigarettes, your arguments are getting ridiculous. We acknowledge that smoking is bad, but this argument is not about that, it's about smoking, society, and legality, and none of these points you've made at all back up why smoking should be restricted or illegal, except in certain indoor situations which we've already conceded. There are far more pressing problems in society than those that cigarettes are even partially responsible for, and as we're not taking action against those (feeble attempts at reform aside), it's ridiculous to suggest that we take action against those that cigarettes are responsible for, because it's blatant hypocrisy.

Books contain useful information and are not consumable. They usually spend decades sitting on shelves. Cigarette paper is made for the purpose of being burned. It's wasteful.
I don't care about your legality. These are all valid reasons to abolish smoking.

We've been repeating ourselves for the past three pages. Would you mind actually reading our posts and thinking about our viewpoint, then arguing about the topic at hand, rather than trying to drag the discussion into some kind of moral debate that's not necessary or even really relevant?

I read every post before making mine. I thought about your viewpoint. I think it's stupid. If you don't want to debate me, don't debate me. You are not obligated at all to respond to me. In fact, only the first two comments were even directed at you. The rest was my viewpoint.

All I can say about the issue of marijuana is ... It's certainly safer than alcohol or cigarettes in both the short and long term.

I agree. I am a strong opponent of alcohol as well. It's a completely useless, dangerous substance that I am probably allergic to.
But the reason Mj is illegal is because it is uncontrolled. Big G can't tax it so they make money arresting you for possession. They can't sell it legally because there would be a strong public outcry from the Neo Cons, so the situation remains unchanged and you just have to live with it, or get glaucoma. Whichever is easier.

 

[Absinthe]

Unless you do it solely for the reasons I stated, then my comment does not apply to you. Of course you will be insulted if you apply it to yourself.

Person 1: Negroes are scum because they leech off the welfare system.

Person 2: You are racist and you have offended me.

Person 1: You shouldn't be offended unless you're a negro that leeches!

This is retarded on an almost quantifiable level. You accuse smokers of being:

1.) Pathetic.
2.) Deceptive.
3.) Desparate.

Oh, and then there's the nice touch of "people who work for Big Tobacco are non-productive members of society". Bravo there. I am not irritated with you because your stereotype finds application in me. I'm irritated due to indignation over false accusations.

I also don't understand why anybody would bother calling themselves an opponent to alcohol.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

This is retarded on an almost quantifiable level. You accuse smokers of being:
1.) Pathetic.
2.) Deceptive.
3.) Desparate.

You either misunderstand or are deliberately altering the context of what I said.

Oh, and then there's the nice touch of "people who work for Big Tobacco are non-productive members of society".

Nice touch? I believe the world would be better off without them.

Bravo there. I am not irritated with you because your stereotype finds application in me. I'm irritated due to indignation over false accusations.

Indignation indeed. How pointless to trifle over something as simple as my belief.

I also don't understand why anybody would bother calling themselves an opponent to alcohol.

Even after I stated why? Are just tuning out half of what I say?

It's a completely useless, dangerous substance

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Except in Chemistry class and cleaning wounds, amongst other non-harmful uses probably.

 

[The Monkey]

I agree that it sometimes is a social advantage if you smoke, but I will only smoke so much that I know I won't become addicted.

 

[Beerdude26]

I agree that it sometimes is a social advantage if you smoke, but I will only smoke so much that I know I won't become addicted.

rofl that's the funniest kind of smoking

 

[Dynasty]

I also don't understand why anybody would bother calling themselves an opponent to alcohol.

Because it causes people to go OVER the limit and become the scum of the earth.

And i think youll find alot of smokers ARE desperate no matter what they say. Nicotine is a recognised DRUG and therefore has an effect on you. What the effect is exactly ill never know, because whoever i ask about it all just say 'i dunno why i smoke, its sociable'...haha please.

You get an URGE to it. Why the hell do you think there are those little things called NICOTINE PATCHES??? for a laugh? no. its to keep the drug in your system, thus calming your urge, thus you dont smoke and clog up the bronchiols, bronchi and alveoli in your lungs with tar(which is why youll find youre always out of breath quicker than someone who doesnt smoke) . simple logic really.

I know so many people that for example, if we go to the cinema they come out literally saying 'god i need a fag/smoke'. Or theyll say 'yeah give me a minute, i need a smoke first'.

Cut the shitty addiction and live longer.

 

[Solaris]

But the reason Mj is illegal is because it is uncontrolled.

If it WAS legal it would be Controlled. It being uncontrolled is a requirement of it being illegal.

 

[The Monkey]

rofl that's the funniest kind of smoking

That didn't come out right D:

 

[Bad^Hat]

Christ, this thread has more dissection than my 3rd form science class.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I agree. I am a strong opponent of alcohol as well. It's a completely useless

And playing computer games is productive?

Alcohol can grease the wheels of social contact. Computer gaming, beyond personal gratification, doesn't actually do that much for you. It's got health risks too. Tell me, beyond the point that cigarettes harm you more, what difference is there?

As a very irregular cigar smoker, I'll tell you that the one thing more irritating than people trying to force their opinions on other people because they have a habit they don't like is one of the few things that can cause me to truly hate a man.

"I hate smokers, they're useless and I don't want them to smoke because I don't smoke and they shouldn't need to"

"I hate homosexuals, they're useless and I don't want them to like men because I don't like men and they shouldn't need to"

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Absinthe]

You either misunderstand or are deliberately altering the context of what I said.

Point out this crucial context, please. Nothing in your post indicates anything else but a gross generalization of smokers.

If there is miscommunication here, it is due to a lack of clarity on your end.

Nice touch? I believe the world would be better off without them.

Good for you. That's highly irrelevant since there is a market for cigarettes. Your subjective idea of what's useful for society really doesn't matter since people want cigarettes and are willing to spend their money on them. Besides, the people working at these places pay their taxes. They have families. They may give to charity. You have defined them as people by their positions of employment, and that is absolutely ridiculous. You should do better than that.

Indignation indeed. How pointless to trifle over something as simple as my belief.

Your belief is insulting and retarded. If you were Jewish and I expressed the belief that the Holocaust was one of the best things to happen in the 20th century, offense would be entirely justified.

Beliefs are not little benign entities.
You are entitled to think and say what you want. I am entitled to think of you as an asshole should they fit the criteria.

Even after I stated why? Are just tuning out half of what I say?

Don't worry, I read it. And I think it's one of the more ridiculous things you've said thus far in this topic. To be quite honest, it sounds like something that would come from a clueless twit that has never had a drop of alcohol in his life and is missing out on a not-insignificant area of life experience.
To be more clear, I don't know why anybody would think of alcohol as useless. Dangerous is a given, assuming we're talking stupidly high quantities. But that's an issue with the person drinking it.

 

[Absinthe]

Because it causes people to go OVER the limit and become the scum of the earth.

The majority of Western civilization ingests alcohol of some kind of some amount. Are you saying that the majority of such people go over the top and become the scum of the earth?

Or is it more sensible to admit that while some people cannot manage their alcohol intake, the rest of us get on fine?

More and more stupid generalizations. One after the other.

And i think youll find alot of smokers ARE desperate no matter what they say. Nicotine is a recognised DRUG and therefore has an effect on you. What the effect is exactly ill never know, because whoever i ask about it all just say 'i dunno why i smoke, its sociable'...haha please.

Addiction is not the same as desparation. In any case, you've glossed over what I was replying to.

I took issue with the accusation that I was experiencing some kind of profound social dread over not being able to smoke indoors. In a country I don't even live in, mind you.

Cut the shitty addiction and live longer.

Cut the the self-righteous spew and maybe I'll give a damn or two about your safety lectures.

 

[StardogChampion]

Tell me, beyond the point that cigarettes harm you more, what difference is there?

Addiction. Harming of those other than yourself, etc etc.