Virginia Tech Shooting

[Space Farm]

I mean, we're not perfect, but we don't have all these shootings every couple of months.

It's because Gun laws have drastically changed since Port Arthur in 1996, which is still the third worst killing spree in history.

 

[Baserape>]

Rather than tightening up gun laws some officials and news outlets are stating schools should have bullet proof doors and windows. Next they will be suggesting emergency bullet proof jackets to be issued to class mates rather than dealing with America’s obsession with fire arms.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Blaming guns is as ridiculous as blaming video games.
There's a thread in politics for this discussion.

 

[Jintor]

Blaming guns is as ridiculous as blaming video games.
There's a thread in politics for this discussion.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - blaming widespread avaliability of weapons which are designed purely to kill (No, not to shoot clay targets or for 'the pleasure of shooting', damnit) is just as ridiculous as blaming an entertainment medium?

-_-

 

[MiccyNarc]

I use guns as an entertainment medium, I've never shot anyone with them.
Remember that video games were developed by the army to desensitize troops.
The only thing you can blame is the kid. That's it.

 

[Jintor]

I use guns as an entertainment medium, I've never shot anyone with them.
Remember that video games were developed by the army to desensitize troops.
The only thing you can blame is the kid. That's it.

All video games? Every one of them? Even Barbie's Horse Adventures?

/EDIT Crap, I don't even know if you're mocking everyone or not. -_-

 

[MiccyNarc]

All video games? Every one of them? Even Barbie's Horse Adventures?

Did I say that? Or are you putting words in my mouth?

Because I hate it when people do the latter.

Guns are a tool, nothing more.

 

[clarky003]

This is horrible , but how did he manage to kill a woman and her RA in a dorm, then go back to his dorm and capture a QuickTime video rant, burn the DVD, trek to the post office with two 9mm weapons in tow, mail the DVD, along with photos and miscellaneous writings to NBC, and then march over to Norris Hall and kill another thirty or so people execution-style?

D : Manchurian Candidate?

 

[CptStern]

I use guns as an entertainment medium, I've never shot anyone with them.

that's just your personal exprience that doesnt hold true for everybody ...on average 10,000 people a year are murdered by handguns and thousands more injured

Remember that video games were developed by the army to desensitize troops.

sarcasm? if you're not being sarcastic then I'd like to point out that video games were not developed to desensitise troops ..video game development in it's infancy was a grass roots phenomenon, it had nothing to do with the military ...sure there has always been video games in military training but to my knowledge video games unlike the internets are not a military innovation

The only thing you can blame is the kid. That's it.

I agree, we should blame the kid ..but at some point you have to ask yourself/your elected officials how is it that a clearly mentally unstable person was able to purchase a gun so easily ..days before the actual killings (he still had the recipts in his knapsack). There is a corelation between these types of incidents and easy access to firearms ..they go hand in hand and cannot exist without the other. Cut off the source and inevitable consequence is that these types of incidents will decline in frequency ..the very fact that these sort of things are almost exclusive to the US proves that gun control would have some affect


oh and you guys should take this to the poltics forum where there's a thread on this

 

[MiccyNarc]

sarcasm? if you're not being sarcastic then I'd like to point out that video games were not developed to desensitise troops ..video game development in it's infancy was a grass roots phenomenon, it had nothing to do with the military ...sure there has always been video games in military training but to my knowledge video games unlike the internets are not a military innovation

Change "were" to "have been" and you get the idea.

I agree, we should blame the kid ..but at some point you have to ask yourself/your elected officials how is it that a clearly mentally unstable person was able to purchase a gun so easily ..days before the actual killings (he still had the recipts in his knapsack). There is a corelation between these types of incidents and easy access to firearms ..they go hand in hand and cannot exist without the other. Cut off the source and inevitable consequence is that these types of incidents will decline in frequency ..the very fact that these sort of things are almost exclusive to the US proves that gun control would have some affect

This is a byproduct of our PC society: "We can't label this person as an insane sociopath, that'd hurt his feelings!"
If we could label a person as mentally disturbed, which he very clearly was, then we could maybe have kept the gun out of his hands. I agree, someone shouldn't be able to walk into Dick's and walk out with a gun.

 

[CptStern]

Change "were" to "have been" and you get the idea.

This is a byproduct of our PC society: "We can't label this person as an insane sociopath, that'd hurt his feelings!"
If we could label a person as mentally disturbed, which he very clearly was, then we could maybe have kept the gun out of his hands. I agree, someone shouldn't be able to walk into Dick's and walk out with a gun.

what? this has nothing to do with political correctness ..your family can institutionalise you, even your spouse can if the circumstances are warrented ..he could easily have been labeled as person of suspicion had the proper measures been taken but how do you propose we do this? follow people around with a notepad and write down everything he does that may be out of character and then try to get a court order forcing him into pschiatric counseling ..even had he gotten help it would do anything to stop the next person from pulling a gun at a crowded shopping mall or airport or sporting event or whatever ..the ONLY reason why the most obvious culprit isnt under scrutiny is because americans have the gun culture hardwired to their identity ..not too mention that the gun industry is powerful and has tons of supporters/lobbyists both in and outside of government

 

[Solaris]

I really have no idea how you can not blame guns, you can think anti-gun laws might not work, but the fact remains if there were no guns IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

 

[Uriel]

Like I said, I'm all in favor for more strict gun laws, especially those which prevent the mentally unstable/ill from purchasing them.

However, people who are intent to kill, will kill. Explosives, chemicals, fire, poisoning, even a car can be used as a tool in murdering people.

And Stern, if the kid did have a friend to prevent him from commiting this act, the whole situation COULD have been prevented. Whether you find the idea close to what Mr. Rogers would say, I'd bet money that a murder would have been prevented if the kid had someone to talk to, compared to removing/restricting all guns.

The kid was a loner and seemed to have a seething hatred for society. I mean it sounds like the kid went on the whole spree because he had lost his only friend, his girlfriend. I don't know if that is the whole reason, but so far, thats what the story appears to be so far.

 

[CptStern]

Like I said, I'm all in favor for more strict gun laws, especially those which prevent the mentally unstable/ill from purchasing them.

However, people who are intent to kill, will kill. Explosives, chemicals, fire, poisoning, even a car can be used as a tool in murdering people.

christians for gun ownership ..isnt that contradictory?

And Stern, if the kid did have a friend to prevent him from commiting this act, the whole situation COULD have been prevented. Whether you find the idea close to what Mr. Rogers would say, I'd bet money that a murder would have been prevented if the kid had someone to talk to, compared to removing/restricting all guns.

or someone to aid him in his goals ...birds of a feather flock together and all that ...also sociopaths usually have no friends ...that's what sociopaths mean: anti-social personality disorder

The kid was a loner and seemed to have a seething hatred for society. I mean it sounds like the kid went on the whole spree because he had lost his only friend, his girlfriend. I don't know if that is the whole reason, but so far, thats what the story appears to be so far.

people lose their friends/girlfriends/family every single minute of every single day, however they dont go on a shooting spree killing 32 people ..to suggest that all he needed was someone to talk to is rediculous ..he needed far more intensive help than just someone to talk to ..you dont consoul a psychopath, you lock him up before he harms someone or himself

 

[Uriel]

christians for gun ownership ..isnt that contradictory?

My gosh dude, keep religion outta this. So tired of nearly every post of yours "ZOMG RELGION, CHRISTIANITY!" Give it a rest.

or someone to aid him in his goals ...birds of a feather flock together and all that ...also sociopaths usually have no friends ...that's what sociopaths mean: anti-social personality disorder

How many school shootings involved 2 or more people in the list you provided from Wiki? Only one I can recall.

people lose their friends/girlfriends/family every single minute of every single day, however they dont go on a shooting spree killing 32 people ..to suggest that all he needed was someone to talk to is rediculous ..he needed far more intensive help than just someone to talk to ..you dont consoul a psychopath, you lock him up before he harms someone or himself

Never said "that's all he needed", that's why I put "COULD" in all caps because I knew you were gonna assume something like that. Get your eyes checked? Of course the kid needed some intense counciling/therapy, but I stated before, doping him up on anti-depressants is a poor way of "fixing" the problem. Seems like a good portion of the murderers in school shootings were already taking them.

A friend can also do more than just talk him out of doing it, he can also alert the authorities. I believe in Columbine, the two kids said something to another kid about doing it, but he didn't take it seriously. Could be another event I'm thinking of, but I'm fairly sure it was the Columbine shootings.

 

[CptStern]

My gosh dude, keep religion outta this. So tired of nearly every post of yours "ZOMG RELGION, CHRISTIANITY!" Give it a rest.

it's a valid point ..I even asked someone else earlier in one of these threads ..it's genuine curiosity ..I mean "turn the other cheek", "love thy neighbour" is in conflict with gun ownership for defense ..the reason why no one ever replies to this question in any satifisfactory way is indicative that they realise that gun ownership is at odds with their faith ...no need to fly off the handle especially when it's a valid point ..turn the other cheek :E

How many school shootings involved 2 or more people in the list you provided from Wiki? Only one I can recall.

granted it's harder to convince someone to join your little murderous rampage but the point wasnt that he could have recruited an accomplice the point was that saying that maybe he needed a friend is just ignoring the fact that he was mentally disturbed ...look your faith precludes you from having any sort of faith in psychoatric drugs so naturally you would support the notion that couseling rather than medicatio was the answer ..well as a former teacher who's worked with many coucilers I can say with every certainty that his first trip would have been to a psychiatrist not a counselor ..he's too far gone for counseling alone to have any sort of effective

Never said "that's all he needed", that's why I put "COULD" in all caps because I knew you were gonna assume something like that. Get your eyes checked?

you gave one of two possible solutions ..not one of them is viable

Of course the kid needed some intense counciling/therapy, but I stated before, doping him up on anti-depressants is a poor way of "fixing" the problem.

yes and you're a psychiatrist and have interviewed Cho extensively to come to that conclusion right? what you think is immaterial ..as an expierenced first line worker with the mentally disturbed I can rightfully say that cunseling is not enough ..nowhere near enough ..but again your personal distaste (that of your religion) is at the root of your statements so that in itself is enough to invalidate your arguments

Seems like a good portion of the murderers in school shootings were already taking them.

logical fallacy, you're saying the fact that they're on drugs seems to not prevent them from killing ..unless you can come up with emperical proof that in the majority of these cases the perps were a. prescribed medication for mental health problems b. took their medication as prescribed up until the moment they went on a shooting spree

A friend can also do more than just talk him out of doing it, he can also alert the authorities. I believe in Columbine, the two kids said something to another kid about doing it, but he didn't take it seriously. Could be another event I'm thinking of, but I'm fairly sure it was the Columbine shootings.

he can do lots of things ..he can load the bullets, he can act as a lookout, he can tell his teacher, he can ignore it, he can say "who cares he's not aiming for me", he can buy a one way ticket to timbuktu for all you know ...in other words you're just speculating and have no idea what having a friend would do to the situation ..and it's not like he was assigned a friend ..he's antisocial he chose to be alone ..that's what anti-social behaviour means

 

[The Monkey]

Video by the murderer released to NBC.

 

[Ennui]

Holy shit.

 

[Qonfused]

Wow. Bullying from peers does take a toll on the mind, doesn't it?

 

[dream431ca]

"We have the right to bare arms" is my excuse.

If you have the right to bare arms, it's only a matter of time until something like this happens. You should not be allowed to by any gun that can fire automatic rounds....or any gun for that matter.

 

[Baal]

Wow. Bullying from peers does take a toll on the mind, doesn't it?

We all know it does, but how much it tolls is based on so many other factors.

This kid probably had a terrible life in addition to the bullying he received from his peers. He may have been poor his whole life so he couldn't afford to do things most kids who are bullied do to take their minds off of school (video games for example).

 

[Beerdude26]

We all know it does, but how much it tolls is based on so many other factors.

This kid probably had a terrible life in addition to the bullying he received from his peers. He may have been poor his whole life so he couldn't afford to do things most kids who are bullied do to take their minds off of school (video games for example).

Yes, add his writings about pedophelia and child abuse and you've got yourself a psychopath :|

 

[repiV]

I really have no idea how you can not blame guns, you can think anti-gun laws might not work, but the fact remains if there were no guns IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

Irrelevant. There are thousands of factors at play here which ultimately led to this happening, and the lack of any number of them could have prevented it.
Cars kill a lot more people than guns - if it wasn't for cars, this would not be so. Let's ban cars!

 

[MiccyNarc]

We all know it does, but how much it tolls is based on so many other factors.

This kid probably had a terrible life in addition to the bullying he received from his peers. He may have been poor his whole life so he couldn't afford to do things most kids who are bullied do to take their minds off of school (video games for example).

Poor yet going to Virginia Tech? $25,000 a year for an out of state student?

And Uriel, this had nothing to do with his girlfriend, his only girlfriend was imaginary, according to him.

This guy was completely and totally ****ed in the head, he had no friends and rejected any attempt that anyone made to be friends with him.

A rebel without a clue, a martyr without a cause, in other words, he was an attention whore.

I really have no idea how you can not blame guns, you can think anti-gun laws might not work, but the fact remains if there were no guns IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

Name a 1st world country where guns are banned and there is no gun crime.
Banning guns solves nothing.

 

[Qonfused]

A rebel without a clue, a martyr without a cause, in other words, he was an attention whore.

Looks like he died happy.

 

[Baal]

Poor yet going to Virginia Tech? $25,000 a year for an out of state student?

I'll admit I don't know all of the facts, not many do at the moment, but who's to say that isn't a scholar ship from someone in Korea sponsoring him?

Or maybe his rich parents sent him there but don't give him any spending money other than the bare minimum.

Who the hell knows at this point. We'll know more soon enough.

 

[MiccyNarc]

I'll admit I don't know all of the facts, not many do at the moment, but who's to say that isn't a scholar ship from someone in Korea sponsoring him?

Or maybe his rich parents sent him there but don't give him any spending money other than the bare minimum.

Who the hell knows at this point. We'll know more soon enough.

I haven't heard from any source that he's poor, that's just a random assumption. :-\

 

[Baal]

I haven't heard from any source that he's poor, that's just a random assumption. :-\

It's a reasonable one though, don't you think?

It's the only thing that adds up, for me anyways. Maybe you guys have your own theories, but well, you all know mine by now.

 

[Gray Fox]

He had the money to buy 2 guns, he can't be that poor.

 

[Baal]

He had the money to buy 2 guns, he can't be that poor.

He bought at least one of them with a credit card.

John Markell said Cho was very low-key when he purchased the Glock and 50 rounds of ammunition with a credit card in an "unremarkable" purchase.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html

 

[Combine Hybrid]

So what? He probably worked his ass off and saved money for the guns? He's not a rich guy. His parents own dry cleaners and he clearly hated rich kids.

 

[Jintor]

In regards to the gun debate, guns are bad. -_-

In regards to Cho, he was pretty much insane anyway.

 

[MiccyNarc]

It's a reasonable one though, don't you think?

It's the only thing that adds up, for me anyways. Maybe you guys have your own theories, but well, you all know mine by now.

The hell? So if you're poor, you get pissed off, blame society, and then go on a killing spree to show the world how pissed off you are?

That's ridiculous.
How about this:
The guy was batshit ****ing insane. That's most reasonable explanation right there.

 

[15357]

It's a reasonable one though, don't you think?

It's the only thing that adds up, for me anyways. Maybe you guys have your own theories, but well, you all know mine by now.

Let's shoot poor people then. They must all be psychopaths bent on destroying society.

 

[Ennui]

Let's shoot poor people then. They must all be psychopaths bent on destroying society.

We appreciate your wonderful contribution to this thread.

I imagine he got a scholarship to VT, and he lived in Virginia so he'd get in-state tuition.

 

[Jintor]

We appreciate your wonderful contribution to this thread.

I imagine he got a scholarship to VT, and he lived in Virginia so he'd get in-state tuition.

He was being sarcastic. So it was a contribution to the thread.

...I'm pretty sure. You dont' know, with Numbers.

 

[Kula Meenur]

What are you talking about, Koola? I can hardly piece together a point from that.

Gun control ya jackass

 

[Sulkdodds]

He was being sarcastic. So it was a contribution to the thread.

...I'm pretty sure. You dont' know, with Numbers.

True - with any other poster I would be confident that was a sarcastic, acid, hyperbolic response to Baal, undermining his assertion by taking it to its logical conclusion (not very well I'll grant you)...but with Numbers, who can tell?

 

[Baal]

The hell? So if you're poor, you get pissed off, blame society, and then go on a killing spree to show the world how pissed off you are?

That's ridiculous.
How about this:
The guy was batshit ****ing insane. That's most reasonable explanation right there.

Let's shoot poor people then. They must all be psychopaths bent on destroying society.

Did you guys not see the video where he condemned rich kids with their "trust funds?"

 

[dream431ca]

If you support guns, that's great, as long as you support tight restrictions. Personally, I think that, if your caught with a gun outside in public (that includes in your car), you should be banned from owning any firearm for the rest of your life.