Virginia Tech Shooting

[mastag]

The Cho guy was severely ****ed up in the head.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

Who knew the writer of Full Life Consequences was so insane?

 

[Kamikazie]

I don't really want to read through the whole thread to find out but, did he do this because his girlfriend broke up with him?

 

[Lucid]

I don't really want to read through the whole thread to find out but, did he do this because his girlfriend broke up with him?

Looks like.

He was emotionally unstable as ****, a real loner.

My guess is that it was the only girl he's ever been with, thus the break up was a huge blow to whatever ego he had.

 

[Ennui]

It actually seems much more likely that either there was no romantic connection or he was stalking her... he had no friends and definitely no girlfriend according to all the articles about him.

Also, the "Ismail Ax" thing may also be a reference to a Cooper novel... from Wikipedia's talk page for Cho, though I found it at a blog prior to that:

In James Fennimore Cooper’s story “The Prairie,” the settler Ishmael Bush, who is attempting to escape from civilization, sets out across the prairie with two key tools, a gun and an axe. Each has a symbolic meaning. The axe — which can either kill or provide shelter — stands for both creation and destruction. Could be a possible explanation for why this English major had it scrawled on his arm. Obviously it is speculation, and unless we develop a section for possible explanations for the statement (which I know isn't happening), I'm not going to include it myself.

 

[Moto]

10 bucks says this play is acted-out and put on Youtube within the next few days.

 

[<RJMC>]

10 bucks people will say is a agent of north korea

 

[Space Farm]

When I was in high school, I wrote some short stories that would've probably made Dahmer cringe. My first story in college was about a guy's girlfriend being murdered on a friday night while he was at a party. While someone's writing is something to look at, I don't think it carries as much weight as some people think. Unless it's a private journal/diary. Then I think it might be a different story.

Exactly, it doesn't really hold any weight at all. It's just something the media will try and focus on. I bet next they'll be calling him a "loner" or something too.

What about those people who wrote Hostel, Reservoir Dogs, American Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer and all those other graphically violent movies? It really isn't much different to that little screenplay that was posted.

 

[Combine Hybrid]

Fox 5 just said he was a chinese national. LOL

 

[Qonfused]

I bet next they'll be calling him a "loner" or something too.

Too late.

 

[Space Farm]

Well there you go.

 

[Krynn72]

Aha, see. Its theater's fault, not video games. BAN PLAYS! BAN NOVELS! BAN ALL WORKS OF ART AND EXPRESSION!

 

[function9]

Aye, I wasn't necessarily relying on only the story as evidence to back up that statement - the 32 murders substantiates it pretty well too, and there were some weird stories in my creative writing class.

It's still a tad disturbing, but I do agree that you can't judge someone entirely because of what they write... given that part of being a good writer is being able to describe things that you can't feel personally.

I agree with you though. I think as part of the bigger picture it will provide some information. But unfortunately we never get the whole picture on these things until it's too late.

But where's the happy medium then? Is this the price we pay as a so called "free" society. Or is there going to come a time when we start shipping kids off for a psych profile everytime they're not thinking happy-happy joy-joy thoughts (not that I would want that to happen).

 

[Krynn72]

happy-happy joy-joy

Happy happy joy joy is from Ren and Stimpy... and those cartoons were ****ed up. I wouldnt want people thinking those thoughts around me :O

But seriously, art is a tricky thing. It IS an expression of yourself. It lets others see into your mind. If you are a messed up individual, then your art will show that. Franz Kafka anyone?

I think what does matter is how one deals with it. If they let out all their anger and frustration through some sort of art, its beneficial for the person to portray his "dark" side, because with every piece he writes hes that much less frustrated with life. Perhaps by writing this play he hoped to calm himself? In that sense, then these messed up writings could be a sign of hope. Unfortunately, if that was the case, then it wasnt enough for him.

 

[15357]

Damn mother****er... why the hell did he have to be Korean for?


This was all over the front paeg of the newspapers...

As far as I'm concerned that SOB's a traitor.

 

[Jintor]

Tragedy... and insanity. If someone is killed on campus by an unidentified murderer than why isn't the whole campus locked down straight off? And why did they send round an email of all things? You'd have to rely on word-of-mouth more than anything else...

So many things wrong with the response...

 

[Baal]

Damn mother****er... why the hell did he have to be Korean for?


This was all over the front paeg of the newspapers...

As far as I'm concerned that SOB's a traitor.

He apparently lived most of his life in the US, so no hard feelings :cheers:

Not that there would have been anyways, but...yea...

 

[Baal]

Tragedy... and insanity. If someone is killed on campus by an unidentified murderer than why isn't the whole campus locked down straight off? And why did they send round an email of all things? You'd have to rely on word-of-mouth more than anything else...

So many things wrong with the response...

26,000 people (maybe less, but potentially) IN TRANSIT when the first shooting happened.

This didn't necessarily start as a school shooting did it? Aside from the fact that it started in a University dorm, but the first two shootings...not that we know for sure yet, but I thought it had been implied that those first two murders had some significance, not just random. Therefore it was treated just like domestic violence, because really, it was and as far as I've been lead to believe, it still is.

Conventional wisdom would then lead to believe the shooter would run and hide, not come back and blow away 31 more people (including himself).

 

[Ennui]

Exactly, it doesn't really hold any weight at all. It's just something the media will try and focus on. I bet next they'll be calling him a "loner" or something too.

What about those people who wrote Hostel, Reservoir Dogs, American Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer and all those other graphically violent movies? It really isn't much different to that little screenplay that was posted.

To be fair, there is something of a difference - other than Hostel, those movies are all pretty good (though I haven't seen the last one) and have cinematic/dramatic merit on their own. Cho's writing is a long shot from them... it's violent, unrealistic, and disturbed on a basic level. Those movies portray terrible things, but his writing sounds more like the result of someone being disturbed and wanting to vent a little.

Fox 5 just said he was a chinese national. LOL

They also called Jack Thompson an expert on school shootings. It's Faux, what do you expect?

I agree with you though. I think as part of the bigger picture it will provide some information. But unfortunately we never get the whole picture on these things until it's too late.

But where's the happy medium then? Is this the price we pay as a so called "free" society. Or is there going to come a time when we start shipping kids off for a psych profile everytime they're not thinking happy-happy joy-joy thoughts (not that I would want that to happen).

I'm seriously afraid of that. The best thing we can do to improve the situation is just become better people as a society, but I'm not holding my breath. As far as I'm concerned, we just have to let some things slide - we shouldn't increase the rate at which we refer students to counseling for violent creative writing pieces, for example... that's contrary to the entire idea of artistic expression, to be negatively judged for the outcome. The fact that a few kids who are seriously, honest-to-god psychopaths allow it to come through in their writing shouldn't affect that - it comes with the territory.

Tragedy... and insanity. If someone is killed on campus by an unidentified murderer than why isn't the whole campus locked down straight off? And why did they send round an email of all things? You'd have to rely on word-of-mouth more than anything else...

So many things wrong with the response...

I agree with Baal on this one. Lockdown at 7:30 in the morning is not realistic (all the students in transit) nor, more importantly, warranted. It appeared to be a domestic incident and they locked down that dorm (which still affected 1,000 students) but didn't want to disrupt the rest of the university. We cannot reasonably expect them to have said "Oh, what if this domestic murderer is actually a sociopath with a point to make that's going to try to kill more people instead of hide like a normal killer?"

As far as I'm concerned, the people in charge are just being scapegoated because the public wants someone to blame other than themselves. The real problem here lies inherently in two issues. First, Seung Cho was a disturbed, disaffected sociopath who probably would have managed to kill a lot of people one way or the other, regardless of university response (he was a student... lockdown would just mean that he would be locked in a dorm with a bunch of other students, who he would then kill instead of those in Norris). Second, if we want to act as if he's got some external locus of control responsible in whole or in part for his actions, it's society and the people in it.

 

[15357]

He apparently lived most of his life in the US, so no hard feelings :cheers:

Not that there would have been anyways, but...yea...

Yeah... still, we shall rue the day that our State granted him that passport.

We're kinda woried that this might tarnish our country's image, and that there may be racial hate crimes for this. The ministry of foeign affairs has an emergency meeting because of this.




Anyway, insane people seem to have easy access to weapons in America, no offence. Shouldn't people check if the guy buying is a sociopath or not? Like mandatory paperwork and mental examinations?

 

[Tyguy]

the guy who sold the gun was questioned. He said although he feels terrible, he had no reason NOT to sell him the gun

 

[VirusType2]

Anyway, insane people seem to have easy access to weapons in America, no offence. Shouldn't people check if the guy buying is a sociopath or not? Like mandatory paperwork and mental examinations?

Thats actually a really good idea. I don't see why they DON't. I'm a psycopath, yet I can go buy a gun right now, and sometimes.. when I get really upset, I almost do.

Thats why they have a waiting period when you want to buy a gun. That's an excellent idea. It gives people a chance to cool down in case they have lost it.

Of course, knowing this, we should all go out and buy guns now, so we'll be ready. :cheese:

At least there is a law that prevents felons from owning or possessing guns.

BTW, we were talking about this Virginia Tech shooting incident at work today. It's totally ****ed up. That is a lot of innocent people that shouldn't have been killed. I am really sad to hear this. So close to home too. VT is only a short drive from where I live. I heard it was about his girlfriend. I'll have to read up.

Remember the D.C. Sniper? That was ****in crazy too. Some guys driving around Washington D.C. shooting people while they pumped gas, mowed the law, etc. Oh my god that is just sickening. I was kinda worried. D.C. is only like an hour from here.

 

[Jintor]

I agree with Baal on this one. Lockdown at 7:30 in the morning is not realistic (all the students in transit) nor, more importantly, warranted. It appeared to be a domestic incident and they locked down that dorm (which still affected 1,000 students) but didn't want to disrupt the rest of the university. We cannot reasonably expect them to have said "Oh, what if this domestic murderer is actually a sociopath with a point to make that's going to try to kill more people instead of hide like a normal killer?"

Ah, I understand now. Would it have been better off to warn in different ways (announcements etc.) that a murder had been committed on-campus? Or is that 'spreading fear' or whatever?

I still don't know... having a murderer on campus, and then only sending warnings by email...

It feels inadequet but we can't have expected them to respond any other way?

...

...bah.

 

[Kula Meenur]

Oi **** that shit. The world is taking the piss out of you Virginia, purely because of the way you handled this situation.

Take the flak you ****ed up state.

Instead of some duck shoving some poor bastard, accept the fact that the incident has happened and that you will not let it happen again.

Your state reps need to grow some ****ing balls.

Check this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_Massacre

This is what happened here, in Australia. See what happened after it.

Not saying it's a solution but it's definately an option.

In my job this axiom saves lives constantly.
"Deal with the present problems presently, present the past problems and learn from them."

 

[Ennui]

What are you talking about, Koola? I can hardly piece together a point from that.

the guy who sold the gun was questioned. He said although he feels terrible, he had no reason NOT to sell him the gun

He's a gun store owner, his trade is selling people things that are designed expressly to kill, what the hell did he expect?

Ah, I understand now. Would it have been better off to warn in different ways (announcements etc.) that a murder had been committed on-campus? Or is that 'spreading fear' or whatever?

I still don't know... having a murderer on campus, and then only sending warnings by email...

It feels inadequet but we can't have expected them to respond any other way?

Well, there wasn't really a better way to get in touch with the students than via email. The campus had an emergency loudspeaker system but as the first shooting was not considered an emergency it wasn't used, and it WAS used during the second shooting (saying there was a gunman on campus, lock all doors and stay away from windows). I imagine the whole campus has wireless internet and almost all of the students own laptops, so email+word of mouth is the best way to get news around promptly, because it's definite that at least one person checks their email every minute, on a campus with tens of thousands of students.

 

[Baal]

He's a gun store owner, his trade is selling people things that are designed expressly to kill, what the hell did he expect?

The gun would go under someone's pillow, stored in a box in a closet with the safety on, or inside someone's night table forever, with the possibility of being used to defend one's household?

To retain your sanity as a gun store owner, you would HAVE to believe this. In most cases, it's probably not true, but it's the most ideal scenario, while the actual scenario that played out being the worst possible.

 

[Shakermaker]

What are you talking about, Koola? I can hardly piece together a point from that.

He is trying to say that Oz outlawed guns after the Port Arthur massacre, and that Virginia should do the same. I think ...

 

[Ennui]

He is trying to say that Oz outlawed guns after the Port Arthur massacre, and that Virginia should do the same. I think ...

Yeah right, I wish. This is America, I'd be surprised if this didn't BOLSTER the anti-gun control group... arguments like "If some of the students had guns, it wouldn't have gone that far."

 

[MiccyNarc]

He's a gun store owner, his trade is selling people things that are designed expressly to kill, what the hell did he expect?

I disagree that guns are designed expressly to kill. I use guns to shoot nonliving targets, it's fun.

 

[CptStern]

"If some of the students had guns, it wouldn't have gone that far."

ok a little in bad taste but I cant resist ..I think it would have turned out a little like this

 

[Baal]

Video is unavailable.

Give us the jist

 

[Mr Scott]

I'm not american, but I get a bit narked by all this anti-gun stuff that gets wheeled out whenever someone gets shot. Making guns illegal stops law abiding citizens carrying them, people who break the law, by defenition, will ignoe said law.

And before you start going on about restricting access making things like this less likley, I can drive into london right now, and drive out with a 9mm inside a day. And I don't know anyone who has anything to do with guns. I doubt any major city in the world is different.

Here in the UK, gun crime is prevalent (We had a spate of shootings a few weeks back) and hand guns are completly outlawed over here. Simple fact is, the sort of people who would use guns like this would still have them, and law abiding citizens are unable to defend themselves.

I agree, because we still have high gun crime in Britian. Banning guns wouldnt help at all

Personally, I think banning is a really small minded way of tackling problems. It's like saying,
"There's really bad poverty and hunger in Africa and something must be done!"
"Oh ok then." *NUKE*
Taking a problem head on like that isn't the solution. You have to find a way that pleases everybody if not pisses off a few people in a minority.

EDIT: Also a certain imageboard I know are having an absolute riot of a laugh over this....somehow....

 

[CptStern]

damn the video was pulled by NBC ..it was a parody of the OC episode where people shoot each other to a song by Imogen heap ..it was quite funny however describing a video is not funny

 

[Krynn72]

Bah, it was taken down from that site and youtube already. It was a skit from mad tv / snl or some show like that. Basically a guy wrote a letter to his sister saying that he was going to die from being shot by his friend, who was going to be shot by him, who both were going to shoot another friend, who were all going to shoot his sister multiple times. And then a cop reads the letter and gets shot by his partner.


EDIT: Aw, I just did something not funny ;(

 

[Lucid]

The gunman left a video behind.

He sounds like an emo with a speech impediment.

 

[Javert]

[Copied from 'Politics' thread]

Aside from an outdated constitution (Prince William has yet to ask me to quarter him), there is NO excuse for civilians to own assault weapons or semi-automatic pistols for self-defense.

Sure, hunting rifles are practical enough. But there is no excuse for any hunting rifle to have a clip larger than 10 bullets (most use only 3-4) and more firepower than a US Marine.

I honestly do not see a debate here on morals or human rights. Only that of outdated logic and a gun industry holding onto its profits.


"Sure, Guns don't kill people. PEOPLE kill people. But guns help." -Eddie Izzard

 

[Uriel]

I don't mind strict gun laws, but I don't agree with removing them completely. I think people who are intent to kill, will kill. Really can't go on a rampage with a knife, but keep in mind people can still make explosives. Largest school murder was assisted with a bomb, not a gun. Tools help, but you gotta find the bigger problem why people do this. This kid sounded like he needed some counciling, NOT anti-depressants, or maybe even just a good friend.

 

[CptStern]

This kid sounded like he needed some counciling, NOT anti-depressants, or maybe even just a good friend.

yes and a hug from papa smurf, while the keebler elves dance and sing merrily...tra-la-la

come on uriel he needed at worst anti-psychotic medication at best frontal lobotomy



...btw that was your most Mr Rogers moment you've had yet ...friend heh

 

[<RJMC>]

it was a emo whit guns

sure a lot of emos will be posting poems in theyr myspaces about how they will make theys shootouts

atleast the good thing is that it dont seen to much reference to videogames from what I had see

 

[<RJMC>]

This is one of the most blatantly offensive and poorly thought-out things I have ever read. Get out, please.

"Emos with guns"? What the hell? MySpace? There's a pretty huge difference between being "emo" and being a psycho/sociopath. I take a great deal of offense in your passing this guy off as some sort of MySpace attention whore. As someone who has been in and currently is in a state of clinical depression, your statement comes off as being incredibly ignorant, conceited and downright disgusting.

I'm sorry; I don't mean to really derail things, but jeez, I think you owe it to the rest of the forum members to being a bit more respectful in your posts.

Regarding the shooting itself, I am somewhat horrified by it. I really do not want to know the details, as I felt sick to my stomach just hearing about it the other day on the news. Sadly, when it comes to shooting sprees like this, we're now at the point of asking not "if" but "when" the next one will happen, which stopped this from being a shock to me, but no less disturbing. My sympathies and condolences go out to anybody who was (and likely still is) involved in the incident in any way.

since when people take my posts seriously?

 

[Jintor]

I agree, because we still have high gun crime in Britian. Banning guns wouldnt help at all

Personally, I think banning is a really small minded way of tackling problems. It's like saying,
"There's really bad poverty and hunger in Africa and something must be done!"
"Oh ok then." *NUKE*
Taking a problem head on like that isn't the solution. You have to find a way that pleases everybody if not pisses off a few people in a minority.

EDIT: Also a certain imageboard I know are having an absolute riot of a laugh over this....somehow....

Australia and New Zealand - convict country - are pretty good without guns.

I mean, we're not perfect, but we don't have all these shootings every couple of months.

I don't know, maybe we don't have Fox News to blow every little thing out of proportion and be dumbly amazed when something tragic happens.