Why Apple?

[StardogChampion]

Thats how it was with the iPod. To this day, my mom calls every mp3 player an iPod. I once was wearing my Zen Vision M in school, and someone asked me if it was a new iPod. I told them "no, its a different mp3 player" and they just looked at me with a dumb expression and said "Whats that?" When I worked at CompUSA I sold mp3 players, and 90% of people came in looking for iPods, and had no clue what the other "devices" were that were around the iPod.

I hate this. Hate this. Hate. HATE.

Agreed 100%. Those 90% are the same people that blindly buy Macs.

 

[Geogaddi]

They both have pros and cons, mostly cons. Mac's main advantage is that it's Unix based .

 

[Krynn72]

These arguments suck, and the only reason anyone--Mac or PC user--engages in them is that they're insecure in their OS choice.

Yes, its very clear that im insecure about my choice. I clearly didnt state with any firmness my preference in an OS, and I definitely didnt provide any experience driven reasons as to why I like one over the other. Im so insecure in my Windows XP

 

[Rico]

you dont buy a $2000 to do spreadsheets all day

Heh, let me tell you guys a story.

One day when I walk in at work, I notice a brand new shiny new Imac (the one with the 24" screen) and I go "oooh, new toy, who's it going to?" a co-worker replies "our head of department, Sally".

Right away I make a prediction in my head and see if it'll hold. So we set up this new Imac with anything she might possibly need for her position, we update it, install Office 2004 (all Macs at my job have office 2004 and none of the Apple "office" software is ever used). We essentially did all the work this computer should ever need for it to be out of our hair for quite a while. So we go ahead and bring it to her building, and I set it up for her and show her to work OSX.

Now, some background: She used to have a PC. She decided that "since Macs look nice and I've heard they're easier, I figured I'd get one" (her words). So I go, ok, and teach her how to use OSX. We leave after around 1 hour of coaching her on how to use her new mac.

Fast forward to the next day. I get a call from this same lady, stressed out of her mind, saying she doesn't know how to do X, Y or Z thing on her Mac, or that it doesn't do it, asking me how to do all this stuff. In the end, she just asks me, "Can you just put windows on it?". Yup

So we put windows on it as a parallel so she can run both windows and OSX on her mac. Guess what, she is now solely using Windows for her work. OSX is sitting there in the background .

The moral of the story: People are dumb, OSX isn't as user friendly as they claim, and I hate seeing people waste money on expensive paperweights when they could have gotten the job done spending a lot less. This lady only surfs the web and opens word documents, why the heck does she even need a new computer for??

*rants*

 

[ailevation]

I think the lady you're talking about is the type of person where if she were to start out using Macs from the get go, she wouldn't be able to use Windows. I mean, ONE day of trying out a new OS and she gives up. Come on, LEARN how to use it.

 

[Rico]

The point is, Apple's hype machine makes people think that OSX is so much easier to use and better than PCs. The fact of the matter, and what I keep telling everyone who ever asks me about Macs vs PCs, is that they're DIFFERENT. You still have to learn, you still have to deal with the same issues. Maybe Safari feels like just jumping around in your dock without actually opening a browser window, maybe your wireless network from your Apple Airport just doesn't feel like showing up on your network list today. Maybe Steve Jobs sent some voodoo magic your way to piss you off, it doesn't matter, at the end of the day, I still get both PC and Mac users calling me because they need something fixed or need to be taught. They still come to me with stuff like "my printer isn't working" or "my computer isn't working" and my personal favorite: "I deleted this folder, was that wrong?"


Personally though, I can't stand OSX's hand holding, it really does hinder my productivity. I do like a few of it;s features but for me, I'm never buying a Mac. Not ever. They just don't cater to my needs.

 

[CptStern]

"Mac can't play Half-Life 2."

Seriously this thread should have ended a long time ago.

sorry but no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPrWplpCQUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v6knSCXMQM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgRq_ddLJbs

I hate this. Hate this. Hate. HATE.



Well there you go. There are tons, tons, of other devices that are as slim, have more space, and cost less than the Nano. Yet you buy an iPod for the flashy looks and the name.

no, not at all ..I bought it because it had what I wanted ..the fact that I trust apple/like apple products is no different than me liking Asus or Samsung ...but I havent heard a single person here complain about brand loyalty to companies like Asus or Evga or hell Valve ..some people just cant see beyond their own blinders

You're right, it's not my business. But I do get pissed off when people buy inferior products for more.

why do you care? and if you can point out a superior product for that price range that has everything I need please point it out

Better products and companies deserve the money if they manufacture a better device. It's bullshit that they can't compete because they can't afford to put a commercial on every single station 15 times a day.

for the love of god, who's fault is that ffs? it's apples fault they hire good PR firms? why doesnt creative innovate instead imitate? why dont they come out with great marketing ..if Gap can re-define itself several times over why cant creative or Zune or whatever ..the ironic thing is that apple is one of the few american tech/hardware companies that can compete with the big international companies yet for some unknown reason most of the criticism comes from americans ..you'd think they'd want to support american technology over japanese/foreign technology like they do with the automobile industry

 

[Raptor_Jesus]

I hate apple...I do however love my Ipod

 

[cjohnson]

Why do people like Apple and MacBooks? Is it because they dont like MS?? I dont understand it, what does the Mac OS do that MS OS's cant?

I like the fact that you can emulate Windows on a MAC though

yes, but what can a ferarri do that a bugatti cant?

Its called CHOICE and PREFERENCE. thats like saying there only needs to be one car on the maket. It gets you from A to B, so why have any others?

 

[StardogChampion]

yes, but what can a ferarri do that a bugatti cant?

The point is that people make the Mac the "ferarri" in these types of comparisons when there's no good reason to do so.

 

[Llama]

sorry but no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPrWplpCQUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v6knSCXMQM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgRq_ddLJbs

Yay, you get to run an emulater sucking more resources out of the already weak hardware! :E

 

[CptStern]

Yay, you get to run an emulater sucking more resources out of the already weak hardware! :E

Llama's foot meet Llama's mouth, mouth meet foot

no, windows isnt emulated on a mac, you install windows on a partition, you actually run windows as you would any other OS

more foot in mouthness

already weak hardware

Quad-Core Intel Xeon

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT

http://www.apple.com/ca/macpro/

 

[Llama]

Llama's foot meet Llama's mouth, mouth meet foot





more foot in mouthness

I dont mean emulating an OS, I mean running a windows native program through OSX.

Quad-Core Intel Xeon

NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT

http://www.apple.com/ca/macpro/

You just shot yourself in the foot my friend. Why should you have to resort to a workstation computer to play a game? A MacPro with a monitor and 8800 GT in it will cost almost $4000
Anyway, the guy in the video was running on a lot less than that. Nyah.

 

[CptStern]

I dont mean emulating an OS, I mean running a windows native program through OSX.

why would you do that?

You just shot yourself in the foot my friend. Why should you have to resort to a workstation computer to play a game? A MacPro with a monitor and 8800 GT in it will cost almost $4000
Anyway, the guy in the video was running on a lot less than that. Nyah.

computers are only for games now?

 

[Qonfused]

no, not at all ..I bought it because it had what I wanted ..the fact that I trust apple/like apple products is no different than me liking Asus or Samsung ...but I havent heard a single person here complain about brand loyalty to companies like Asus or Evga or hell Valve ..some people just cant see beyond their own blinders

When comparing the new Zunes to the new iPod Nanos, the Zune supports more video codecs, has superior audio quality and costs the same as the Nano. Yet what are people going to buy more of? iPods because people don't take the two seconds to research something before they buy it. Everyone has an iPod, must mean it's good right? Yes, bandwagons do speak truth. Obviously something shitty isn't going to hold 75% of the portable music business. There are however better choices.

why do you care? and if you can point out a superior product for that price range that has everything I need please point it out

How pointless was this portion? How do I know what you want? You want a small, sleek music player with enough space to hold your shit. For that, look at any 2GB-8GB music player. They're all small and play music.

for the love of god, who's fault is that ffs? it's apples fault they hire good PR firms? why doesnt creative innovate instead imitate? why dont they come out with great marketing ..if Gap can re-define itself several times over why cant creative or Zune or whatever ..the ironic thing is that apple is one of the few american tech/hardware companies that can compete with the big international companies yet for some unknown reason most of the criticism comes from americans ..you'd think they'd want to support american technology over japanese/foreign technology like they do with the automobile industry

I wasn't condemning Apple for having oodles of money to advertise their products, and I don't know how you read it as such. People should be buying the better products. This argument, this ten (+) page argument (which even when settled [it isn't 'cause you're a participant, but I can hope, can't I?] won't mean a thing) is about PEOPLE. Not Apple. At least for me. PEOPLE need to learn not to be mindless sheep and buy what they see on their TV box. "Hey Mabel, I hear those Macs are better than PCs because this commercial said it was!" What the ****? Can people not think for themselves anymore?

Calling other companies' product "imitations" is out of line and you know that. In no way are all other MP3 players an imitation. If they are, all video games are imitations of Pong; all MMOs are a rip off of Ultima Online; all computers are an imitation of a ****ing Commodore. Slippery slope my ass; this is what you are insinuating.

If people buy an iPod or Mac because it better suits them and their needs (as you claim they do for you), I don't have a problem. I do have a problem with bandwagons. When people can't see through the shit and when they can't make decisions for themselves. That is what pisses me off.

 

[Llama]

why would you do that?






computers are only for games now?

No. However, you'll find that generally gaming computers are for games :smoking:
Infact, that doesn't change the point that unless you decide to spend $4000, you can't play games very well.

And as for the first thing, isn't that exactly what the person in the video is DOING? Running a Windows only application on his version os OSX?

 

[CptStern]

When comparing the new Zunes to the new iPod Nanos, the Zune supports more video codecs, has superior audio quality and costs the same as the Nano. Yet what are people going to buy more of? iPods because people don't take the two seconds to research something before they buy it. Everyone has an iPod, must mean it's good right? Yes, bandwagons do speak truth. Obviously something shitty isn't going to hold 75% of the portable music business. There are however better choices.

the nano is the size of a credit card and just a bit thicker ...apples and oranges

How pointless was this portion? How do I know what you want? You want a small, sleek music player with enough space to hold your shit. For that, look at any 2GB-8GB music player. They're all small and play music.

and I chose apple, is that a problem for you?

I wasn't condemning Apple for having oodles of money to advertise their products, and I don't know how you read it as such.

how you misread my response to mean Apple has more money I dont know, but you did even though I dont mention it once ..all I said was that they know which marketing firms to pick, the best firms are not always the most expensive, small marketing firms win awards all the time

People should be buying the better products.

so every one should be driving a volvo instead of a cadillac or any other similiarily priced vehicle, because consumers SHOULD buy the bette product, that holds true for every single product ever made ..why spend $1 on bottled water when you can just buy a $5 bottle of perrier?

This argument, this eight page argument (which even when settled [it isn't 'cause you're a participant, but I can hope, can't I?] won't mean a thing) is about PEOPLE. Not Apple. At least for me. PEOPLE need to learn not to be mindless sheep and buy what they see on their TV box. "Hey Mabel, I hear those Macs are better than PCs because this commercial said it was!" What the ****? Can people not think for themselves anymore?

you are doing exactly what you accuse others of ..only in reverse

Calling other companies' product "imitations" is out of line and you know that.

apple wasnt the first to market but they are the market ..they were the first to bring it to mainstream ..Rio could have taken the world by storm but they didnt ..it was apple, and the ipods design. Everything since has been a variation on the ipod ..they even for the most part look like an ipod


http://www.hardwarezone.com/img/data/articles/2007/2206/Misc_Orient.jpg
http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2006/10/nano-ripoff.jpg
http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2006/10/nexx-nf810.jpg
http://img.engadget.com/common/images/3060000000057303.JPG?0.40130090288706866
http://therawfeed.com/pix/zune.jpg



..same thing with the iphone

http://lh3.google.com/_l2B5tvTbqM8/...I8j9vHfm1fY/s800/lg-ke850-vs-apple-iphone.jpg

In no way are all other MP3 players an imitation. If they are, all video games are imitations of Pong

sweeping generalisation ftl ..it's the design that is most often imitated not the functionality

all MMOs are a rip off of Ultima Online; all computers are an imitation of a ****ing Commodore. Slippery slope my ass as this is what you are insinuating.

nope, not at all ..you're just putting words in my mouth ..words I havent said

If people buy an iPod or Mac because it better suits them and their needs (as you claim they do), I don't have a problem.

I do have a problem with bandwagons. When people can't see through the shit and when they can't make decisions for themselves. That is what pisses me off.

you are guilty of exactly the same thing you accuse others of ..look, anyone who has used BOTH for any extended period of time recognises that BOTH have their strengths and weaknessess ..it's like the gamer that has a ps3 and an xbox360 ..he's not likely to slam the ps3 because it's the competition to the 360 ..he'll have come to the conclusion that each has their strengths and their weaknesses .. and I wasnt born yesterday (as you and your cronies are so fond of repeatedly telling me) this whole hate apple bandwagon didnt start with the mac vs pc commercials ..they've been around since the very beginning

 

[TCfromBN]

Macs are reliable workstations for massive amounts media editing.


/thread

 

[Qonfused]

the nano is the size of a credit card and just a bit thicker ...apples and oranges

Fine. I don't have a problem with people nitpicking over a few millimeters, if that's what's best for them.

and I chose apple, is that a problem for you?

If it's the best for your needs, nope, as I've said before.

how you misread my response to mean Apple has more money I dont know, but you did even though I dont mention it once ..all I said was that they know which marketing firms to pick, the best firms are not always the most expensive, small marketing firms win awards all the time

We all know commercials cost tons, fluctuating a bit due to time slot. So it's obvious that Apple can advertise more (and advertise they do) than any other brand. Sure the design of the commercial may attract people (haet) but it's mainly getting the word out. "Oh a new iPod is out?" They think, not "what a cool commercial." I do not know why MS doesn't advertise their Zune more since there's definitely the funds for that. I really think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to get at. Apple puts commercials out which gets them sales, good for them, I don't care. It's people that look at the commercial and without an ounce of thought go to the store and buy one for themselves, their relative, neighbor.

so every one should be driving a volvo instead of a cadillac or any other similiarily priced vehicle, because consumers SHOULD buy the bette product, that holds true for every single product ever made ..why spend $1 on bottled water when you can just buy a $5 bottle of perrier?

Talk about apples to oranges. People should buy what's best for them. If I don't want an 80GB iPod, I won't buy one; I'll buy a 30GB, because that's what is right for me.

you are doing exactly what you accuse others of ..only in reverse

What? I research before I make a purchase? DAMN IT, THINKING-FOR-MYSELF AND GENERAL LOGIC! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

apple wasnt the first to market but they are the market ..they were the first to bring it to mainstream ..Rio could have taken the world by storm but they didnt ..it was apple, and the ipods design. Everything since has been a variation on the ipod ..they even for the most part look like an ipod

http://www.hardwarezone.com/img/data/articles/2007/2206/Misc_Orient.jpg
http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2006/10/nano-ripoff.jpg
http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2006/10/nexx-nf810.jpg
http://img.engadget.com/common/images/3060000000057303.JPG?0.40130090288706866
http://therawfeed.com/pix/zune.jpg

Mm, yeah, thanks for giving me a bunch of images from Chinese scam companies. Next time we're having a discussion about PSPs, DSs or, really, anything electronic, I'll make sure you fill you in on all the scam devices that look exactly like the mainstream counterpart which are essentially plastic boxes that beep.

sweeping generalisation ftl ..it's the design that is most often imitated not the functionality

So how is that imitation? Sure, it may look like it, but honestly, how else are you going to build an MP3 player? Screen on the upper half, navigation on the lower half. Holy shit, they should hire me at Apple, Rio, iRiver, Creative because I thought of something that makes sense. When the functionality is different, how is it an imitation?

nope, not at all ..you're just putting words in my mouth ..but i do suck dick

you are guilty of exactly the same thing you accuse others of ..look, anyone who has used BOTH for any extended period of time recognises that BOTH have their strengths and weaknessess ..it's like the gamer that has a ps3 and an xbox360 ..he's not likely to slam the ps3 because it's the competition to the 360 ..he'll have come to the conclusion that each has their strengths and their weaknesses .. and I wasnt born yesterday (as you and your cronies are so fond of repeatedly telling me) this whole hate apple bandwagon didnt start with the mac vs pc commercials ..they've been around since the very beginning

Talk about putting words in my mouth. You were born yesterday, Stern. There. Now you can say I told you that. Yes, each device has their pros and cons. But when looking at those pros and cons, I find (and a few others apparently) find that Apple's devices are inferior to the same priced devices of other companies, yet people blindly buy Apple's instead. Take, for example, my ZVM. Twice the battery life, terrific screen (compared to iPod's horrible, shitty-ass one; the Zune's sucks too), and lots of supported video codecs (I download a movie, and sync it to my ZVM and that's it... with an iPod? With a Zune? Converter time.) Possible con? It's thicker than the iPod. Maybe this is a huge ****ing deal to some. If it is, buy an iPod as that's what's best for you.

It's the way I am. When I see people buying inferior products, it agitates me. And it's not only me. To other's the iPod is great and fantastic. Who do you think they talk to about it? Their friends and family all get an ear full about how awesome they are. This is what I'm doing. All I'm saying is "hey, you know what, step away from that Apple display and come look over here at this [IN MY OPINION] superior product." Crucify me for being a pompous asshole, not trying to [IN MY OPINION] help people, as you seem to be doing.

This will be my last post to you on this, by the way. I don't care if you answer my questions or not, it doesn't really matter. We're two self righteous dudes that aren't giving up our stance. You've gotten a bigger reaction from me than any other topic we've come head to head on, so you should be proud that you made me post more than a one-two sentence post (or just call you a twat and have that be the end of it) as it's quite rare for me. I'm going to end this now for the sake of this thread, though I'm not sure what the OP meant for this. It's obvious it was going to turn into a debate, so I dunno. It's already gone down the shitter (familiar process) so I'd rather not continue plugging away.

Twat.

 

[PvtRyan]

When comparing the new Zunes to the new iPod Nanos, the Zune supports more video codecs, has superior audio quality and costs the same as the Nano. Yet what are people going to buy more of? iPods because people don't take the two seconds to research something before they buy it. Everyone has an iPod, must mean it's good right? Yes, bandwagons do speak truth. Obviously something shitty isn't going to hold 75% of the portable music business. There are however better choices.

- The Zune only supports WMV that an iPod doesn't. WMV isn't a much used file format and you would only have a point if the Zune supported AVI, which would be a big plus. As far as I know, no small-size player in the iPod price range supports AVI files, which means watching video on either is shit unless you wanna spend hours converting your shit to MP4.

- Where do people come up with this sound quality argument against the iPod? Everyone says it, yet I've never seen anything to back it up. Talk about a fucking bandwagon. On the contrary, I've seen plenty of evidence that the iPod can easily hold it's own on sound quality.

The whole sound quality argument is a bit laughable anyway, it's a portable media player that you will listen to while in the the noisy train/bus and such, hardly places where your listening experience would benefit from super high quality audio. Also, the limiting factor on audio quality is firstly the earphones - unless you have $300 earphones you'll run into the limits of your earphones way before you run into the limits of the audio chips on the thing - and secondly the quality of your music files.

I got an iPod 5.5G 30 GB because in the end there isn't much difference between portable music players so it comes down to preference rather than objective superiority and the plus points of the iPod (usability and design) weighed more heavily for me than the minor plus points of other players. And yes, I do think design is important, though not hugely so. A cheap plastic $5 digital watch would work as good as any more expensive watch, hell it would work even better (the time on a digital watch is easier to read - my watch doesn't even have numbers on the plate - and usually has lots of other functions) but like an iPod it's an accessoire too. And yes, it's a status symbol, but unless you use a burlap sack for clothing and have never cut your hair being opposed to status symbols would make you a hypocrite.

 

[Vegeta897]

Stern don't even start with asking Qonf how he can be annoyed by stupid people. Your entire existence on this forum is based around arguing with people who you think are stupid. If you didn't care what they thought, you wouldn't have 20,000 posts.

And I'm not saying I'm any different, just calling you a hypocrite.

 

[CptStern]

Fine. I don't have a problem with people nitpicking over a few millimeters, if that's what's best for them.

a zune is nowhere near the size of a nano, it's the size of a ipod not a nano

If it's the best for your needs, nope, as I've said before.

obviously you do, you keep bringing it up

We all know commercials cost tons, fluctuating a bit due to time slot. So it's obvious that Apple can advertise more (and advertise they do) than any other brand.

bull ..Acer makes more money/is bigger than Apple ..Acer has an mp3 player ..why dont they have ads like apple does?

Sure the design of the commercial may attract people (haet) but it's mainly getting the word out. "Oh a new iPod is out?" They think, not "what a cool commercial." I do not know why MS doesn't advertise their Zune more since there's definitely the funds for that. I really think you're misinterpreting what I'm trying to get at. Apple puts commercials out which gets them sales, good for them, I don't care. It's people that look at the commercial and without an ounce of thought go to the store and buy one for themselves, their relative, neighbor.

impulse buy ..ever hear of it? and that is the case for pretty much any product ..how many games do gamers pre-order without having played it? do you sleep in a bed before purchasing it? do you use the toilet before buying it? anyways that is certainly not the case with every single ipod purchase ..all 112 million of them ..unless you have some source that says a large majority of the 112 million ipods sold were impulse buys?

Talk about apples to oranges. People should buy what's best for them. If I don't want an 80GB iPod, I won't buy one; I'll buy a 30GB, because that's what is right for me.

which proves my point

What? I research before I make a purchase? DAMN IT, THINKING-FOR-MYSELF AND GENERAL LOGIC! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

ok even I dont believe you're that thick headed

Mm, yeah, thanks for giving me a bunch of images from Chinese scam companies. Next time we're having a discussion about PSPs, DSs or, really, anything electronic, I'll make sure you fill you in on all the scam devices that look exactly like the mainstream counterpart which are essentially plastic boxes that beep.

how many Rio/Zune/Creative knockoffs are there?

So how is that imitation? Sure, it may look like it, but honestly, how else are you going to build an MP3 player? Screen on the upper half, navigation on the lower half. Holy shit, they should hire me at Apple, Rio, iRiver, Creative because I thought of something that makes sense. When the functionality is different, how is it an imitation?

yet every single iteration apple comes out with is different from the last ..why dont the other companies beat them to market?

Talk about putting words in my mouth. You were born yesterday, Stern. There. Now you can say I told you that. Yes, each device has their pros and cons. But when looking at those pros and cons, I find (and a few others apparently) find that Apple's devices are inferior to the same priced devices of other companies, yet people blindly buy Apple's instead. Take, for example, my ZVM. Twice the battery life, terrific screen (compared to iPod's horrible, shitty-ass one; the Zune's sucks too), and lots of supported video codecs (I download a movie, and sync it to my ZVM and that's it... with an iPod? With a Zune? Converter time.) Possible con? It's thicker than the iPod. Maybe this is a huge ****ing deal to some. If it is, buy an iPod as that's what's best for you.

that's your opinion, it doesnt make it right ..I dont watch movies on my ipod so I couldnt care less what you need it for

It's the way I am. When I see people buying inferior products, it agitates me.

oh noes look there's someone buying a pair of plastic slippers!! there's someone buying vending machine coffee when they could have had a starbuck mocha-****ing-latte with a sprinkle of ass

And it's not only me. To other's the iPod is great and fantastic. Who do you think they talk to about it? Their friends and family all get an ear full about how awesome they are. This is what I'm doing. All I'm saying is "hey, you know what, step away from that Apple display and come look over here at this [IN MY OPINION] superior product." Crucify me for being a pompous asshole, not trying to [IN MY OPINION] help people, as you seem to be doing.

[/quote]

the majority of the market belongs to apple technically you are in the small minority ..but kudos to me for making you call yourself an asshole ..I would have thrown in immature but pompous was a nice touch

 

[Qonfused]

- The Zune only supports WMV that an iPod doesn't. WMV isn't a much used file format and you would only have a point if the Zune supported AVI, which would be a big plus. As far as I know, no small-size player in the iPod price range supports AVI files, which means watching video on either is shit unless you wanna spend hours converting your shit to MP4.

- Where do people come up with this sound quality argument against the iPod? Everyone says it, yet I've never seen anything to back it up. Talk about a fucking bandwagon. On the contrary, I've seen plenty of evidence that the iPod can easily hold it's own on sound quality.

The whole sound quality argument is a bit laughable anyway, it's a portable media player that you will listen to while in the the noisy train/bus and such, hardly places where your listening experience would benefit from super high quality audio. Also, the limiting factor on audio quality is firstly the earphones - unless you have $300 earphones you'll run into the limits of your earphones way before you run into the limits of the audio chips on the thing - and secondly the quality of your music files.

I got an iPod 5.5G 30 GB because in the end there isn't much difference between portable music players so it comes down to preference rather than objective superiority and the plus points of the iPod (usability and design) weighed more heavily for me than the minor plus points of other players. And yes, I do think design is important, though not hugely so. A cheap plastic $5 digital watch would work as good as any more expensive watch, hell it would work even better (the time on a digital watch is easier to read - my watch doesn't even have numbers on the plate - and usually has lots of other functions) but like an iPod it's an accessoire too. And yes, it's a status symbol, but unless you use a burlap sack for clothing and have never cut your hair being opposed to status symbols would make you a hypocrite.

And that's fine.

The video codec is a big deal for me since most downloadable movies are encoded in AVI which then I can just click and drag to my ZVM.

Yeah, the sound quality argument is a bit washy. I dunno. The normal person isn't going to hear a big difference, if at all. It's really the rate at which your music is encoded.

Accessories is a big selling point too, I guess. The only thing I needed was a skin, screen protector and FM transmitter which I found all online or, surprisingly enough, in stores. True, there are no radios in which you can walk up and plug my ZVM into, but it's what's important to people, as I've said.

 

[-Psy-]

Apple make great products. Take the iPod for instance, it's good but it's not brilliant. You can find other MP3 players which can do the exact same thing for a better price yet a lot of people fail to recognise this.

 

[Vegeta897]

Apple make great products. Take the iPod for instance, it's good but it's not brilliant. You can find other MP3 players which can do the exact same thing for a better price yet a lot of people fail to recognise this.

But Stern likes the iPod better.

Stern no opinions are "right". They are one's own and are right to them and anyone else who shares it. Qonfused's opinion on what he wants is right to his own. He never said you should share the same opinion. He has been saying you should choose what's best for you.

Also, you are aware of the new Zune, right?

 

[-Psy-]

I only look at MP3 players when I plan to buy one to be honest. Is it fantastically amazing?

 

[Vegeta897]

That last bit wasn't addressed to you

Zune 8gb is cheaper, smaller, bigger screen than the 8gb Nano.

 

[Escaep]

Good lord this thread has more quoting than the Presidential election race. :|

 

[-Psy-]

Good lord this thread has more quoting than the Presidential election race. :|

No it doesn't. :rolling:

 

[Escaep]

No it doesn't. :rolling:

:hmph:

 

[Kadayi]

I use Macs at work (Visualiser), but at home I use PCs. Macs make for good workstations, because the OS kind of forces you (and everyone you work with) to work in a particular way, and that in itself can be beneficial for all concerned. Software wise is where macs fall down a lot because there aren't a wide range of 3rd party solutions out there catering to particular needs (especially fringe stuff), however if you run an office/studio and are looking for a relatively easy life it's worth considering using Macs assuming the software you use runs on them.

For home use I'd say stick with PCs all the way, unless space is an absolute premium in which case you might consider buying a decent sized Imac and bootcamp it with a copy of Vista, as it will take up much less room than a PC tower. You're better off with XP/Vista as your OS at home IMHO because you've much greater access to software/games and it's more competitively priced than on OSX, plus the statements Apple make about how great OSX is with handing 3rd party peripherals (like Cameras etc) isn't quite as great as Justin Long would have you believe in the adverts. The downside to Macs for home use is the limitations of buying a near closed unit. 3 years down the road, the unit will have aged badly in terms of technology and you'll find you've limited options as to what you can upgrade (Ram at best with the Imacs) after purchase, unless you pay through the nose to pimp the machine out at the beginning (extras like more ram, bigger HD, faster processor, etc you pay handsomely through the nose for..).

Despite all the hooplah that goes on whenever Steve Jobs gives a Keynote speech, bear in mind that despite all the talk (and there's always a lot of talk), Apple and Microsoft are not really competitors. Apple are a box seller (just like Dell or Sony), Microsoft are principally a software developer. The key thing is not really operating systems, it's the software that runs on them. OSX certainly possesses a lot of functionality but Vista is just as robust in my assessment. Also tech website reviewers are really about the only people who actively bother with all the fancy under the hood shit. Offices rely on people working as simply as possible , complications confuse them.

 

[Krynn72]

Wow, glad I dropped out of the discussion before the massive quote battle.

 

[Escaep]

Wow, glad I dropped out of the discussion before the massive quote battle.

I could feel a massive quote battle coming before it finally broke out.

 

[fido139]

Apple?

I cannot resist this thread. After 14 years as a loyal Apple/Mac user in the graphics and printing industry, I can honestly and unbiased say, I REALLY HATE THOSE DAMN THINGS! I cant stand that as*hole Steve (hand) Jobs either, what an egotistical prick.

Mac by day (aarrggghh), PC by night.

 

[fido139]

Kadayi Polokov

I have been using Mac in the graphics industry for 14 years. There is NOTHING good about a Mac as a "workstation". That is the biggest problem with them, under heavy load multitasking they fail MISERABLY. Starting with "the application has unexpectedly quit" and snowballs from there on out. I could write a frickin' book.

 

[nurizeko]

Using a Mac to spite Microsoft is like running away from home and taking daddy's credit card. Either move to a Linux distro or shut the hell up.

That is all.

Lol, here *cookie*

lol at all the adolescent fury towards Apple computers and completely missing the point
computer nerds are not going to like a mac because they don't play games and they don't break or require construction. And this being a gaming site ...
Me, I'm a business professional (I hope). I work in an office staffed almost entirely by Imacs and G5s and macbook pros. The Apple computers NEVER crash, never break, never have any technology issues to date. Any issues are always a result of the microsoft incompatibilities or company pc centric servers. The level of reliability as well as the added bonus of security from the internet plagues is worth the extra cost, every extra penny that I have confidence in my tools - my workstation and server - are always ready and working. A pc might arguably be built cheaper or upgraded to better spec but will never meet the unnecessity of a technology dept on call 24 hours a day to perform that construction and maintenance and troubleshooting etc etc. Macs run databasing and any and all software required in an office environment perfectly and they look sexy. Damn sexy. So it is a bit hilarious when nerds bad mouth a product that is not even built with them in mind when it is instead aimed at professionals, casual users and media editting users. Get over yourselves

Professional at what?, inability to pass a basic IT course?.


PC's are fine and thank **** most business' have common sense to use them.

I cant say too much to your experience, I don't share it, but you sound so much like an advertisement I can only assume you exagirating.

PC's. Bigger. Better. Faster. Stronger. Smarter.

Superior in every way that I can think of, and only worth considering if your so technologically disinclined, your buying a fancy desk ornament rather then a functional practical tool.

I've had many varied experiences with Macs and I share in common with some others here of a multimedia course that involved having to use Macs. They were absolutely dreadful. I had to drop out because the Macs wouldn't work. No work could get done by the class. The oly day anyone got any serious work done was the day we were allowed onto PC's.

Yeah, those nerds, pointing out the flaws in your beloved system. Yeah, those nerds, that enjoy keeping their money, not blowing it away on some inane system.

Yeah. Those nerds.

Lol yeah. Those millions upon millions of nerds, from housewives to rocket scientists. Those nerds who want something that works. Those nerds that like being smart with their money and buying something thats worth every penny. Those nerds who when they use a computer, aren't such slack jawed drooling apes, and know enough about IT technology to not be fooled by the trick of hand and a pure white Tate Modern piece of dross.

Yeah. Those nerds.

Well, there are two type of people. Those who've used macs and those who haven't.

Most of those who've used macs like em, those who haven't just don't have a clue.

They ARE better. And if you look at the macs percentage of all computers, it's been on the rise.

Wrong on all three points. Very wrong. Especially the last.

Macs don't give you a BSOD that tells you what's what, they just hang and spin that annoying beach ball around until you figure out that the Mac just doesn't feel like working today.

I've never once had a BSOD on this PC in all 4 years + I have owned it. I've used Macs that will hang and die before even getting past the log-in. Many times. In the same hour.

Edit: Oh and PC's are capable of looking nice.

http://computer-reviews.net/wp-cont...uiser Mid-Tower ATX case with clear sides.jpg

http://computer-reviews.net/wp-content/uploads/Sony VAIO VGC-RB50.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1933/23vk.jpg

http://onoituaji.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/alienware_7500.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1369/555431838_be91a537df.jpg
Modern art for those so inclined, much more engaging use of creativity then a Mac.

http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2006/04/japanese_case_mod_sangaku/166_s.jpg
My personal fave.

http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2006/07/Extreme_Lian_Li_by_Ediejo/122.jpg
we iz teh borg, in ur office astimulatin ur stuffs.

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/woodworked_case_mod_01.jpg

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/optimus-prime.jpg

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/alloys.jpg

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/beaver-pc.jpg
A stuffed beaver case mod...

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/area-101-case-mod_1.jpg
Very HL2-ish if I must say so.

http://www.bornrich.org/images/bender-case-mod1_12.jpg
Bender case mod...hehehe...

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/glasscase.jpg

http://www.computerdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/wolfenstein_pc.jpg
EEEEpiiiiic!

http://gadgets.fosfor.se/the-top-10-weirdest-case-mods/

And thats that. As you can see, yo can not only buy a variety of different styles of PC case, you can hire case modders who do his for a living to make whatever you want. Hell, they could probably mod a Mac tower if you wanted. Think of that?, the so called homogeneous Aryan utopian idea of style on the outside with all the hardware and software o a PC inside.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Zen ftw.

 

[Druckles]

Constructive Comparison of Both Mac and Windows machines and operating systems

Mac OS

Frankly, the Mac's operating system is wonderful. From what I've seen and experienced, it does live up to the claims made about it and it's simply, beautifully intuitive. For anyone new to computers, but with basic knowledge of how a computer functions, its quite ingenius how it allows the user to really interface with the hardware for all their basic needs, showing them as little behind the screen as possible; the essence of both operating systems and object orientated languages. The user should not need to know how their hardware works. There's little to fault with the operating system itself, except that it is prone to crash, no matter what a mac user might tell you (don't tell them I told you...). The simplicity of the interface is its downside. While it might be quick to pick up, trying to work behind the scenes is alot more complicated, and you'd need to download additional software or learn some more about the operating system before you try and go behind it. While you'd expect this from a PC, it isn't something I'd expect from a Mac.

The user interface is also very pretty. It provides graphically pleasing and wonderfully aesthetic views, and compared to the older sharp boxes, or green/blue/red/yellows of xp, it's a nice relief. There isn't anything too bulky, and it can be customised (somehow) to suit your needs, and the whole interface adjust accordingly. There are smooth transitions, and all sorts of neat effects you can do with your GUI which are not evident in a PC, and frankly, after using them, you'd find it hard to go back. Apple really know what the customer wants.

The office tools that come with it are similarly intuitive, allowing you to do a whole host of things, and it all comes bundled with your Mac. The programs and software it provides are smooth and simple, allowing you to do most things that any basic consumer might want. The disadvantage to software on a Mac is that there is often a shortage of compatible products, and it would be far easier to obtain a PC game or application, as they're far more available. The reason is that people are still using PCs, but it does mean that there aren't any viruses. Basically because no-one cares.

Put simply, working with a Mac Operating System is so refreshingly easy and simple, but are more suited for people who are bored with Microsoft, haven't used a computer before, or don't like playing computer games. Oh, and you can always "emulate" Windows, even Linux, if you really wanted to.

Windows OS

As I'm sure you've all used, or are using a Windows operating system, you're quite aware of what it's like. It's quite difficult to get used to, and many tasks are obscured from view, hidden somewhere. This means it's a steep learning curve when it comes to Windows. The advantage (and somehow there is) to this is that once you've reached what you might call "the peak" of each learning curve, it's not too difficult to learn new commands and routines on that level because they're all as hard as each other. Using Windows will also provide you with insight into how computers shouldn't work, and contrasting it to the Mac can make it quite clear to you which one you'd rather use.

The graphical side of things has never been Microsoft's strong point, although with Vista they don't seem to have done too bad. Sure, they've done everything later than Apple, and they do appear to be copying them in some respects, but that's not to say it's not bad. Personally, I'd just wish they'd stop changing their user interface; they don't seem to be able to make up their mind.

While I might say that Macs are easier, I would not say that producing videos or images or graphic designs on a PC is impossible. Similarly to the Windows interface, it might take a bit to get used to, but the final product is no less for either.

The plus side to using software with the Windows operating system is that there's plenty of it. It's in abundance, and Microsoft have options for backwards compatibility. The down side is that with everything in abundance, you're probably picking a badly coded product, and seeing as how everyone uses it, there's no doubt a virus lurking around your corner.

Mac Hardware

The price on Mac hardware is what bums alot of people out. Apple don't provide quite a large range as you can get PCs, but at least you're guaranteed your quality. It's like the difference between off-the-shelf and a family run company. You get the personal side of it, and you get the quality, too. I'm not suggesting that your latest Macbook Pro is hand-made, but you get the idea. The hardware behind it was carefully picked, and it is quite reliable. If it doesn't work, or you're unsatisfied, they have no problem with sending you a replacement. Repairing damaged Macs, however, can be similarly expensive to buying them, as the cost can be quite um... costly.

Not only do you get a quality piece of hardware, but it also looks awesome. It's a nice, aesthetically-pleasing silver, and using it, you can tell that it's been thought about from all the features it provides, from magnetically locking laptops to backlit led screens (again, laptops). The mice are intuitive and new, and everything always magically looks shiny.

You're guaranteed quality with your Mac, and it would be worth the price you pay. Personally, I'd have bought an Apple monitor, if they'd released some new ones. Your Mac can also emulate a PC, allowing for PC games to be played. The disadvantages to this are, you would lose the focus that a gaming PC has on its hardware, you'd lose quite a bit of hardware space, and you'd have to buy an extra operating system.

PCs

The main advantage with a PC is that it's fully customisable. Because so many people manufacturer parts for PCs, and so many people make PCs, you're going to be able to find exactly what you want or something to fill your budget, picking and choosing between manufacturers. The second advantage is the price. You can buy a perfectly good PC for ₤400+, for something you might be spending ₤700 on for a Mac.

Customer support, as with anything cheap, isn't going to be perfect, and it will depend on your manufacturer.

The flexibility you have with your PC continues when you come to upgrade. You can purchase the separate parts and upgrade your PC yourself. You might want to level yourself up a bit first, but it's possible, and it's much cheaper than purchasing a new PC or Mac. While PCs aren't anything to look at, they do provide potential, and you can mod (or get modded) your PC to your own personal satisfaction, which I wouldn't recommend with a Mac.

Conclusions

The main advantages of a PC over a Mac are already clear. The price of a PC makes it more attractive, and it has the added flexibility of so many people manufacturing for it. Both have a downside, of course, as you won't quite get the quality of a Mac, and too much choice can often be confusing. The extra money would definitely be worth it for a first time buyer, or a first time computer user.

In terms of software, your Mac is of course superior for what it gives, but again the scope of production for Mac draws it back. It's attractive, simple and effective, so it's such a disappointment to see it so underappreciated.

For a gamer, however, the extra money that you might pay for a Mac would not be worth it, as you could get a system that actually plays games. Period. As Stern mentioned, sure, "Price" and then "Games" are contradictory, but one would not use them in conjunction. If you want a gaming computer, you'd pay extra for a computer, but you still wouldn't pick a Mac from the lack of game support it has (*see below).

To sum it all up for myself, personaly: I'm disenchanted with the Windows operating system, but it does what I want, and it plays games. I wouldn't want to pay the extra cash when I'm already familiar with the operating system I'm using. I'm quite happy with my PC's hardware, and being capable enough to build it, I'm quite happy paying less than I would for a Mac. But in the end, you have to look at each operating system, its GUI and its hardware separately to be able to make that decision for yourself.

Disclaimer: All views and opinions expressed in this post were entirely subjective

*Lets mention Spore, which is apparently being released for PC and Mac simultaneously :imu:

 

[destrukt]

Sorry, but not get the quality of a Mac? What quality is that exactly, a pretty case because as far as I'm aware the internals are same stuff most of us can buy.

And I don't know how long ago but Dell [physically] started building some decent PCs. This is based off my looking around a couple of friend's new computers which are Dells and me being very surprised how well they're built and they even bothered with things like neat cable management.

Oh, and my PC I built is probably better quality than one made by Apple. I know all my parts are quality, with Apple, I have little to no idea. For example, who makes their PSUs? I have no idea but I know my PSU is from Corsair (And is made by Seasonic IIRC) and I know both are high quality.

I've heard of an absurd amount of problems with Apple hardware too which is surprising considering people push Macs as being so well built and designed.


You also do not have to pay 'extra' for a gaming computer, most Dells do fine as gaming computers and even if you did pay extra you'll still be paying less for a Mac (Probably an iMac) which would cost more and have much worse specs, especially in regards to GPUs which Apple sucks at and RAM which is generally slightly slower speed (For example, 667 instead of 800) and incredibly expensive.


In terms of software, yes, MacOS is a most excellent OS and a lot of third-party apps are incredibly well coded and designed but claiming that the Mac platform is inherently 'superior' is rubbish. Windows, Linux, and Mac, while all having their own strengths and weaknesses are ultimately in a fair fight with neither magically jumping ahead of the others.

Fun thing to mention: Heard of all the Leopard problems? Much to my shock, on an Apple fan site, I heard people comparing it to Windows ME and very few people tried to contradict the person.


My disclaimer: These are my opinions but as explained I believe them to be more correct and justified, so ha!


On another note, is anyone else enormously sick of the Apple look? Seriously, give the glossy white with rounded corners a freaking break and try some decent product names, for once. Also, I think a lot of people are becoming sick of Jobs, the local snake oil salesman.

I'm with Fido too, while I was at uni I dreaded having to go in the Mac labs and working with the G5s, the amount of spinning beach balls of death I encountered was insane.

 

[fido139]

Apple vs. Mac

Oh man, this is one of my favorite subjects! I could write a book on the differences, since I have been on BOTH platforms for 15 years nearly every day.

I work at a printing company which, of course , uses mostly Macs for Graphics production and editing. For my home computer it has ALWAYS been a PC with The latest version of Windows, well... except for Vista.

First, Macs aren't nearly as cool as the Zealots who run them claim them to be. In my 15 yeasrs on this pig, I find instability, crappy multi-tasking, corrupted preferences and data, slow and sluggish (click and wait) operating system. In a high production environment where you need to through-put a lot of work they just can't hold up. It almost seems like they have some kind of memory leak, you can get about an hour out of it before something crashes that you didn't know about, or it just starts to do really funny/odd things, or not doing what you asked it to. When you look at the memory usage and disk swap file size it is huge, with only a few megabytes left over in RAM, you will NEVER see that on a PC. Time to restart the apps. No internet browser on the Mac, Safari, IE, or Firefox can display a web page correctly like it was meant to be, not like on a PC. Then there is no security, they are so easy to break into, even if they are passworded. (I have done this OSX 10.4) I also get sick and tired of glowing blue buttons and gray backgrounds, I wanna puke. Intuitive "user friendly" my ass. There there is that lovely little message "your application has unexpectedly quit", usually right after a bunch of work.

On my home PC with Windows XP, I find rock solid speedy performance, using many of the same apps, with NO CRASHING no matter how hard I work it. I can have far more apps open on my PC then ever dreamed of on my Mac G5 dual core OS 10.5 machine.
PC's have FAR MORE configurability then a Mac, as the operating system is open to the user, where all the Mac stuff is hidden and uneditable. I can make videos, edit graphics, burn DVD's, type word processing, compose web pages all day long and it will NEVER miss a beat. And then there is that endless supply of freeware and over the counter software that works so well. I find freeware for my PC that works better then the $1000 a pop software for a Mac.

Games for a Mac? What games?

I had to laugh, you hear these Zealots go "oh, but they are so well made", I turned two of them over, and what do I find on the bottom? A tag that says "Made in China", oh god, I about fell off my chair laughing.

I could write so much here you would get tired of reading it. In short, PC all the way, Macs can all die. If after 15 years of running the two I havent drifed toward a Mac, doesn't that say anything? :sniper: