Why Apple?

[Kaptain H]

Hm, I dunno. I've been using Mac computers for years now, throughout college and also as a graphic designer for a diagnostics company.

And I still freaking hate them. It's just the interface. OSX, I'm never comfortable using it. It's mostly little things that annoy me, like the way different open programs overlap each other, and the program dock. The G4 I used to work on was so unstable that I had to safety save every 5 minutes, though I haven't had too many problems with newer ones.

I'm not much of a computer person, but I've been accustomed to pc's since my first one in 1990. Oh, and the ipod scroll wheel drives me insane.

 

[ailevation]

I am looking down the road into a Macbook for for simple web browsing and junk when I don't feel like being in front of my desktop, I kinda want to see what apple has to offer without owning up to a main system, hence the reason I want a macbook. I never really used one as I would a PC and there's more and more talk about how these Apple notebooks are better and greater than before.

If I don't go the mackbook route, there's always those new Lenovo IdeaPads.

 

[smwScott]

and this is something new? why buy any product over the other if their isnt a precieved "betterness" (for lack of a better word)

Some people choose certain products over others because of how they function and perform. A large portion of Apple's customer base choose Mac and Ipod because it's considered cool and makes them feel superior to others, even though they're buying by and large inferior products. It is indisputable that hardware-wise you're certainly spending much more than you would be if you bought a PC. Software wise is open to debate; however I and most others find that the software is much worse and that most of their marketing campaigns messages of reliability, user friendliness, and creativity are bullshit. Next comes style. There are many stylish PC cases and it's also entirely objectionable, though I would agree that the general consensus is that Apple's have better designs.

So assuming people aren't elitist bastards but rather intelligent, critical consumers, that means that they thought that the arguably inferior software and the arguably superior design warranted a drastic bump in price. That's fine. I don't believe that's a wise decision but I don't really care either.

My point, and my reason for singling Apple out, is that their marketing campaign quite clearly singles out peoples need to feel different and superior to others. It is very similar to the way a company like Rolex or BMW operate, except that in this case the product itself is inferior to competitively priced alternatives, and the product is also affordable enough to become more culturally relevant.

I don't like the product nor their extremely arrogant and annoyingly effective marketing campaign, and that's really all I'm saying.

that is indicative of every single advertising campaign out there ..that's the whole point behind advertising ..we have long ago stop selling products but rather selling lifestyles, every last product out there is more than just the sum of it's parts or functionality; it's the promise of what it can do for you ..expensive jeans make you feel better, pricey glasses make you look hip etc etc ..seriously why do you need a "better" car or a bigger tv? you dont need these products but because it suits your lifestyle choice you want it ..

I would venture that Apple's campaign ventures far further into snobbery and elitism than many other affordable consumer goods such as jeans or glasses. This level of bullshit superiority marketing is generally reserved for rich old men, but Apple has shown that the youth of this country are equally recipient to it.

so if you believe ps3 is better than xbox360 it's because it suits your lifestyle ..I thought you'd understand brand loyalty of all people

If you're trying to insinuate that I have the same kind of brand loyalty towards Sony that I am accusing many of having towards Apple ... please notice the irony in that I'm defending Microsoft. When I want an OS I get Windows, or if I was so inclined Linux. If I want a game platform I'll go with a PS3, because I prefer it and think it's more cost effective. I go with the product I prefer due to it's functionality, not the brand. I still play the shit out of my roommates 360, just choose not to buy it for myself.

the reality is that apple doesnt make computers for you people ..gamers/students, they dont target you people in their advertising campaigns, they dont even target pc users ..apple owns 4% of the market share, they are not a threat to pcs in terms of numbers of units sold ..but in terms of who they target they long ago won the hearts and minds ..they've purposefully put themselves in a niche market and they're quite successful at it because they dont just sell the operating system they sell the pc that runs it

Um ... I would say that their target demographic is the college crowd.

 

[StardogChampion]

but your pc isnt an all in one that sits on your desk with only 2 cords (power/cable jack)

Really? Monitor cable... power cable.

Everything else is wireless USB apart from my headphones.

 

[Escaep]

This thread is getting pointless because all it is is PC vs. Mac, some people just prefer Mac over PC and visa versa, to a MAC user, PC's are crap, to a PC user, MAC's are crap. It is like religious topics here. And political. They all end up as arguments as to which one is better.

 

[No Limit]

lol at all the adolescent fury towards Apple computers and completely missing the point
computer nerds are not going to like a mac because they don't play games and they don't break or require construction. And this being a gaming site ...
Me, I'm a business professional (I hope). I work in an office staffed almost entirely by Imacs and G5s and macbook pros. The Apple computers NEVER crash, never break, never have any technology issues to date. Any issues are always a result of the microsoft incompatibilities or company pc centric servers. The level of reliability as well as the added bonus of security from the internet plagues is worth the extra cost, every extra penny that I have confidence in my tools - my workstation and server - are always ready and working. A pc might arguably be built cheaper or upgraded to better spec but will never meet the unnecessity of a technology dept on call 24 hours a day to perform that construction and maintenance and troubleshooting etc etc. Macs run databasing and any and all software required in an office environment perfectly and they look sexy. Damn sexy. So it is a bit hilarious when nerds bad mouth a product that is not even built with them in mind when it is instead aimed at professionals, casual users and media editting users. Get over yourselves :|

I would probably shoot myself if I had to manage that network. *pukes*

 

[Stigmata]

I would probably shoot myself if I had to manage that network. *pukes*

You and me both.

 

[Krynn72]

I have had to use Macs fairly often in my two years of school so far, and I can honestly say that I would NEVER buy one. A lot of the programs I use really suck on it (I cant imagine spending 7grand on Maya and having it perform as shitty as it does on a Mac). I hate having to use the terminal to do all this simple bullshit that I can do on a PC in a split second with a GUI. I hate not being able to use scripts and plug-ins or any add ons because they're not compatible with the Mac. I hate when I encounter glitches that completely stop my production (HURR NOW YOUR STUCK IN GRID SNAP MODE HURRR. THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THIS IS TO REBOOT THE COMPUTER LAWL) **** YOU MAC!

Everything a Mac can do, can be done as easily on a PC. But not the other way around. Advanced video editing, compositing, effects and efficient workflow is nearly impossible on a Mac unless you work for a company that has designed its own proprietary software exclusively for their pipeline. When compared to the open-source and freeware communities of the PC, the Mac's community support for plugins and addons for their applications is absolutely pathetic.

So to answer the OP's question of "Why Apple?" all you need to do is look at what Stern is saying. Because people like how it looks. **** efficient workflow, I want less wires behind my desk! **** easy and free support from the massive PC communities, I want fancy bouncing icons at the bottom of my screen! **** advanced hardware at reasonable prices, I want to look like my other "graphic designer" friends who wear thick black frame glasses, tight trendy clothes and short styled hair!

 

[Rico]

lol at all the adolescent fury towards Apple computers and completely missing the point
computer nerds are not going to like a mac because they don't play games and they don't break or require construction. And this being a gaming site ...
Me, I'm a business professional (I hope). I work in an office staffed almost entirely by Imacs and G5s and macbook pros. The Apple computers NEVER crash, never break, never have any technology issues to date. Any issues are always a result of the microsoft incompatibilities or company pc centric servers. The level of reliability as well as the added bonus of security from the internet plagues is worth the extra cost, every extra penny that I have confidence in my tools - my workstation and server - are always ready and working. A pc might arguably be built cheaper or upgraded to better spec but will never meet the unnecessity of a technology dept on call 24 hours a day to perform that construction and maintenance and troubleshooting etc etc. Macs run databasing and any and all software required in an office environment perfectly and they look sexy. Damn sexy. So it is a bit hilarious when nerds bad mouth a product that is not even built with them in mind when it is instead aimed at professionals, casual users and media editting users. Get over yourselves :|

As a guy who maintains both MACs and PCs in an office environment across 7 different buildings, I have to say your statement is entirely false.

No, Macs don't break less often, you just don't see it. Macs don't give you a BSOD that tells you what's what, they just hang and spin that annoying beach ball around until you figure out that the Mac just doesn't feel like working today. When your Mac hangs, you better pray you weren't doing anything important, because the only way that sucker is ever going to recuperate is by rebooting.

I see both Macs and PCs come in and out of my office and here's a nice little fact: 90% of the time, when Macs come in they need to be sent to the shop because the CD decided to eat a movie (and of course, if the eject button doesn't work you're stuck with the fun of trying to remove the CD out of that slit) or because the logic board decided to just die.

I find the argument that Macs are more reliable than PCs laughable. The only reason Macs don't 'break' as often as PCs for some people is becuase Macs hide everything from their users, because Apple figured that people are stupid and they might try to delete their OSX folder one day. The flipside to this is that in order for me to fix a mac, I have to go through 10 times the trouble of a PC.

 

[Krynn72]

Macs don't give you a BSOD that tells you what's what, they just hang and spin that annoying beach ball around until you figure out that the Mac just doesn't feel like working today.

Oh my how I hate that ****ing beachball/spinning umbrella top. In my 4 hour lab sessions I had to "Force Quit" maya or photoshop at least two times a day because they stop responding. It wastes so much time because I have to wait to see if its just taking forever, or if its actually failed. Sometimes if I just wait 10 minutes it will work again, and I can save my work quickly before it messes up again, but usually I have to kill it, and thus loose like 30 minutes of work.

 

[Kyorisu]

and I dont understand this "it's expensive" justification.

More cost for the same thing really. I bought a Macbook because I didn't really want to have to **** around with wifi in linux, simple as that and if I really have to I can still boot windows.

 

[elrasho]

Can we keep this thread on topic, less of the MS and Mac bashing. I just want to see peple opinions on why Mac are selling so well and why people go from PC to MAC... the one thing thats stopping me is gaming, but then again for ?700 I can buy a really goos spec Laptop with an 8600 gfx card which would perform much better than a Mac in games.

 

[Stigmata]

We're already way past why people go from one platform to the other.

For the record, Krynn, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Now I know I'm not the only one who's had a horrible, horrible experience with Apple computers.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Oh my how I hate that ****ing beachball/spinning umbrella top. In my 4 hour lab sessions I had to "Force Quit" maya or photoshop at least two times a day because they stop responding. It wastes so much time because I have to wait to see if its just taking forever, or if its actually failed. Sometimes if I just wait 10 minutes it will work again, and I can save my work quickly before it messes up again, but usually I have to kill it, and thus loose like 30 minutes of work.

QFT, I had this problem countless times in my damn film class - GL uploading a video from a DV Camera without that BS happening. Arrrrrrrgh

 

[Stigmata]

QFT, I had this problem countless times in my damn film class - GL uploading a video from a DV Camera without that BS happening. Arrrrrrrgh

Worst part of a film class EVER.

 

[Qonfused]

The Apple computers NEVER crash, never break, never have any technology issues to date. Any issues are always a result of the microsoft incompatibilities or company pc centric servers.

Neither has my PC. And how is it Microsoft's fault that their software doesn't work on a different OS? Can I open a .dmg file on my PC? ****ing Apple...

A pc might arguably be built cheaper or upgraded to better spec but will never meet the unnecessity of a technology dept on call 24 hours a day to perform that construction and maintenance and troubleshooting etc etc.

Oh, you mean a few techies that are already hired to take care of things like that when something does decide to go wonky?

So it is a bit hilarious when nerds bad mouth a product that is not even built with them in mind when it is instead aimed at professionals, casual users and media editting users.

Yeah, those nerds, pointing out the flaws in your beloved system. Yeah, those nerds, that enjoy keeping their money, not blowing it away on some inane system.

Yeah. Those nerds.

Side note: Sorry, I pulled a little bit of a CptStern (though I would need to type a paragraph between each quote and have horrible grammar) right there. I'll make sure that never happens again.

 

[Krynn72]

So it is a bit hilarious when nerds bad mouth a product that is not even built with them in mind when it is instead aimed at professionals, casual users and media editting users.

This is absolutely not true. For one, nothing can be built to cater to both casual users AND professionals, since one always detracts from the other. For example, advanced functions need to be hidden from casual users so they dont muck shit up, and professionals need advanced functions at their fingertips for efficient work flow.

Windows however can get around this. Windows off the shelf is very user friendly, works perfectly well for casual users. However, with the wealth of online resources, and massive amounts of software available for the windows platform, advanced users (ie, professionals) can customize their system to optimize their efficiency. In my experience over the past two years of my life, Macs have only limited what I could do.

 

[CptStern]

Microsoft vs Apple in terms of design philosophy in a nutshell

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36099539665548298

it may be a parody but some of it rings true ..MS is mainstream, apple is niche market ..why are people threatened by a niche market? 4% of the pc market in fact ..so why do people hate something which couldnt possibly compete in any meaningful way? this unreasonable hate for everything apple is just that: unreasonable

 

[No Limit]

This is absolutely not true. For one, nothing can be built to cater to both casual users AND professionals, since one always detracts from the other. For example, advanced functions need to be hidden from casual users so they dont muck shit up, and professionals need advanced functions at their fingertips for efficient work flow.

Windows however can get around this. Windows off the shelf is very user friendly, works perfectly well for casual users. However, with the wealth of online resources, and massive amounts of software available for the windows platform, advanced users (ie, professionals) can customize their system to optimize their efficiency. In my experience over the past two years of my life, Macs have only limited what I could do.

Not to mention its fairly simple to join a windows pc to a domain so network administrators can manage what functions pc users can and can't perform. So you could be safe having a grandma that knows nothing about computers operate a computer on your network without having to worry about her screwing anything up. At the same time you can make it as easy for her as possible by putting everything she needs in one place without any action on her part.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with what Rico is doing but I simply can not picture a serious corporation using macs for their regular workstations.

 

[No Limit]

Microsoft vs Apple in terms of design philosophy in a nutshell


it may be a parody but some of it rings true ..MS is mainstream, apple is niche market ..why are people threatened by a niche market? 4% of the pc market in fact ..so why do people hate something which couldnt possibly compete in any meaningful way? this unreasonable hate for everything apple is just that: unreasonable

There was nothing wrong with apple until their new ad campaign that spawned an entire generation of douchebags that think they are cooler and more efficient than everyone else.

Is my hate of these people unreasonable? Probably. But you have no idea how annoying it is to have people (bosses actually) at your work come up to you and talk about how cool macs are and how we should all be using them.

Edit: lol at the video

 

[Eejit]

This is absolutely not true. For one, nothing can be built to cater to both casual users AND professionals, since one always detracts from the other.

So you're saying... it's a case of apples and oranges...? :cheese:

 

[CptStern]

I simply can not picture a serious corporation using macs for their regular workstations

why not?


8-core: Two 2.8GHz, 3.0GHz, or 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 5400 series processors

Eight FB-DIMM slots on two memory riser cards (four slots per card) supporting up to 32GB of main memory

Double-wide, 16-lane PCI Express 2.0 graphics slot with one of the following graphics cards installed:
ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 with 1.5GB of GDDR3 memory, two dual-link DVI ports, and one stereo 3D port

Multiple graphics card configurations including two, three, or four ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT cards
300W for up to four PCI Express graphics cards
Support for up to eight 30-inch displays1
Support for digital resolutions up to 2560 by 1600 pixels
Support for analog resolutions up to 2048 by 1536 pixels

Up to 4TB of internal storage


http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html


it's a workstation


incidentily a company I visited lately in downtown toronto in toronto's most expensive business district at the top of a tower overlooking the lake at an office of a company that does clinincal research support for Canada's Medical industry which has an operating budget of millions of dollars recently switched every last pc to macs ..the guy showing us around (chief Operating Officer)mentioned they havent had major problems in months since the switch and planned to switch other offices to macs ..this guy probably made in excess of $300,000 a year on salary alone - he is apple's target audience ..not you guys

There was nothing wrong with apple until their new ad campaign that spawned an entire generation of douchebags that think they are cooler and more efficient than everyone else.

come on, mac bashing/hate has been in place since 1984 ..this latest campaign capitalises on that but it's been in existence from the very beginning

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-715862862672743260

it was directed by Ridley scott

 

[No Limit]

it's a workstation


incidentily a company I visited lately in downtown toronto in toronto's most expensive business district at the top of a tower overlooking the lake at an office of a company that does clinincal research support for Canada's Medical industry which has an operating budget of millions of dollars recently switched every last pc to macs ..the guy showing us around (chief Operating Officer)mentioned they havent had major problems in months since the switch and planned to switch other offices to macs ..this guy probably made in excess of $300,000 a year on salary alone - he is apple's target audience ..not you guys

But how many workstations are we talking about? 5, 10, maybe 15? When you are talking about managing 50, 100, 500 workstations its pretty clear that there is no way in hell you could do that with a mac. I wont even get in to how much overhead you would have in training your IT staff even if it is only a small network.

Again, don't get me wrong. There are normal people that use macs. But the douchebags that use them but don't really understand why they are using them clearly overshadow those normal people. And apple's marketing team absolutely loves that.

 

[StardogChampion]

Microsoft vs Apple in terms of design philosophy in a nutshell

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=36099539665548298

it may be a parody but some of it rings true ..MS is mainstream, apple is niche market ..why are people threatened by a niche market? 4% of the pc market in fact ..so why do people hate something which couldnt possibly compete in any meaningful way? this unreasonable hate for everything apple is just that: unreasonable

Hmm... that video's true, isn't it...?

http://wolfark.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/mac-os-x-leopard-box-pacco.jpg

http://www.i4u.com/images/2006/windows-vista-ultimate-box.jpg

The OSX box looks like it's from 1995 or something. Reminds me of this.

 

[Krynn72]

8-core: Two 2.8GHz, 3.0GHz, or 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 5400 series processors

Eight FB-DIMM slots on two memory riser cards (four slots per card) supporting up to 32GB of main memory

Double-wide, 16-lane PCI Express 2.0 graphics slot with one of the following graphics cards installed:
ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory and two dual-link DVI ports
NVIDIA Quadro FX 5600 with 1.5GB of GDDR3 memory, two dual-link DVI ports, and one stereo 3D port

Multiple graphics card configurations including two, three, or four ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT cards
300W for up to four PCI Express graphics cards
Support for up to eight 30-inch displays1
Support for digital resolutions up to 2560 by 1600 pixels
Support for analog resolutions up to 2048 by 1536 pixels

Up to 4TB of internal storage


http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html


it's a workstation

Is that supposed to be impressive? Is this one of their "top of the line" computers? Because its pretty lame if thats as good as you can get with a Mac.

 

[No Limit]

Is that supposed to be impressive? Is this one of their "top of the line" computers? Because its pretty lame if thats as good as you can get with a Mac.

To be fair I found that to be pretty impressive for a prebuilt package. Granted, you would probably spend more than $10K on that but some people dont care about money.

 

[Krynn72]

Take a look at Boxx workstations if you want impressive. Apexx8 is absolute sex. 8 quadcore Opteron 8300s, Dual Nvidia Quadro cards, up to 256GB ram, 11TB internal storage.

*drool*

 

[CptStern]

Hmm... that video's true, isn't it...?

http://wolfark.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/mac-os-x-leopard-box-pacco.jpg

http://www.i4u.com/images/2006/windows-vista-ultimate-box.jpg

The OSX box looks like it's from 1995 or something. Reminds me of this.

sigh ...you completely missed the point, that's twice in two days. it's not about ****ing box design

Is that supposed to be impressive? Is this one of their "top of the line" computers? Because its pretty lame if thats as good as you can get with a Mac

as a workstation yes ..what did you have in mind quad sli? why would a workstation need that?



look I tire of this subject the more people come in and throw in their 2 cents without having read a word of what was posted previously ..people want to buy what they want to buy ..why is it anyones business?

But the douchebags that use them but don't really understand why they are using them clearly overshadow those normal people

there's douchebags associated with every single product out there, from Prada to Tag Heuer to Armani to Pernod Ricard to Cohiba to Glen Garioch ..why is apple any different? why is apple targeted with so much unreasonable hate in comparison to every other product? you dont hear people calling Tag Heuer fans elitist pricks who think they're better than everyone else cuz the can afford to spend $10,000 on a wrist watch

 

[Stigmata]

as a workstation yes ..what did you have in mind quad sli? why would a workstation need that?

Why even bring up a high-spec Mac machine if you're going to deride us for doing the exact same thing with a PC example? Apologies that your godly Mac workstation is a piece of shit compared to a high-end Boxx.

 

[CptStern]

come on stigmata, you're taking it out of context ..No limit said:

"I simply can not picture a serious corporation using macs for their regular workstations"

and I posted details on a apple workstation

 

[Krynn72]

as a workstation yes ..what did you have in mind quad sli? why would a workstation need that?

A Quad sli is a bit unneeded for most places, but for some CGI studios with retarded-high poly counts and preview rendering, it would be a tremendous help. But 32 cores of processing is where its at Any CG studio would want that.


And we all understand why people buy macs. We're just making fun of them because of their reasons. And its not our buisness until people start making it out like they're better. My cousin got a Mac recently because he said "they're better for what I do" which is essentially photoshop and illustrator work. And thats a load bullshit that he believed thanks to Apple's lies in their marketing.

Edit: Also, how much would that Mac Pro cost? I'll try and find a similar priced PC workstation and we can compare, FOR FUN!

 

[CptStern]

who is making it sound like they're better? the guy in the commercial? he's an actor


and yes as a person who has been using photoshop and illustrator on pc/mac for over a decade they DO run better on a mac ...admittedly marginal difference in performance but from personal experience I find that to be true ..that said I currently use photoshop/illustrator on a dell piece of crap

 

[Krynn72]

Everyone I have talked to who likes macs make them sound like they're functionally better than a PC. And are you sure you're not comparing photoshop's performance on a good Mac with your dell piece of crap? For me, I hardly noticed a difference when working with 8k images, other than photoshop freezing every once in awhile on the Mac.

Also, see my ninja edit in my last post.

 

[Stigmata]

Edit: Also, how much would that Mac Pro cost? I'll try and find a similar priced PC workstation and we can compare, FOR FUN!

Go to the Mac Pro store and configure yourself a machine. I'm not going to be surprised by the results, I can tell you now

 

[CptStern]

no, I havent used a "good" mac in years, my dell is less than a year old but is still a dell

as to the ninja edit .one of the suggested work purposes of the mac pro is as a media display station ..it suppoorts 8 monitors, they're tailored to specific industries ..at that point, cost is seldom an issue

 

[smwScott]

there's douchebags associated with every single product out there, from Prada to Tag Heuer to Armani to Pernod Ricard to Cohiba to Glen Garioch ..why is apple any different? why is apple targeted with so much unreasonable hate in comparison to every other product? you dont hear people calling Tag Heuer fans elitist pricks who think they're better than everyone else cuz the can afford to spend $10,000 on a wrist watch

You never responded to what I said about this. The Tag Heuer fans are elitist pricks too, I'm sure. It's just that I don't encounter those pricks on a daily basis. Apple pricks are everywhere. Apple sells the same elitist bullshit attitude in a form that is affordable to the mainstream and therefore has a significantly larger cultural impact.

You really need to re-evaluate your argument on their ad campaign. Do you seriously not see the difference between the somewhat artful "1984" ad and their modern day campaign in which they have some douchebag hipster deride a strawman in 30-second bits? These ads aren't aimed at $300k/yr+ salary earners, they're aimed at douchebags, specifically douchebags in the 18-35 demographic.

You also seem to be missing the point that mine and some other other posters dislike for Apple isn't solely due to their elitist, bullshit marketing campaigns that appeal to the lowest common demoninator. We have had genuinely bad, frustrating experiences with Mac's. There is no more valid reason I can think of to dislike a product.

 

[Krynn72]

I just made two of the same systems, one a Mac Pro, one a Boxx 8400. Both with a dual quadcore xeon 3.2 processor, quadro 5600, 16gb ram, 2TB storage. No displays, no extra software and default keyboard/mice/speakers etc. The Mac was $13,300, Boxx was $11,200.

 

[CptStern]

You never responded to what I said about this. The Tag Heuer fans are elitist pricks too, I'm sure. It's just that I don't encounter those pricks on a daily basis. Apple pricks are everywhere. Apple sells the same elitist bullshit attitude in a form that is affordable to the mainstream and therefore has a significantly larger cultural impact.

You really need to re-evaluate your argument on their ad campaign. Do you seriously not see the difference between the somewhat artful "1984" ad and their modern day campaign in which they have some douchebag hipster deride a strawman in 30-second bits? These ads aren't aimed at $300k/yr+ salary earners, they're aimed at douchebags, specifically douchebags in the 18-35 demographic.

who cares? why do you care? I dont care if someone toutes tag heuer over say cartier or rolex ..I couldnt care less what people buy

You also seem to be missing the point that mine and some other other posters dislike for Apple isn't solely due to their elitist, bullshit marketing campaigns that appeal to the lowest common demoninator. We have had genuinely bad, frustrating experiences with Mac's. There is no more valid reason I can think of to dislike a product.

who cares? that's your personal expereince it's is NOT indicative of the typical user experinece ..if that were true apple would be long dead and buried

 

[Llama]

no, I havent used a "good" mac in years, my dell is less than a year old but is still a dell

as to the ninja edit .one of the suggested work purposes of the mac pro is as a media display station ..it suppoorts 8 monitors, they're tailored to specific industries ..at that point, cost is seldom an issue

Cost is ALWAYS as issue.

If you can get a better product for less, cost becomes important.

I mean, let's say you run a media company. You can buy 10 of these Macs for about $18,000 each. If, however, you know that you can get a similiar product for $12,000, which do you choose?

I'm not having a dig at you or anything, I just mean that even if cost doesn't seem to be important, people will always take the oppurtunity to save money.

 

[CptStern]

there is no mac priced at $18,000 ..and if cost was always an issue apple would be long dead and buried