Why Apple?

[Krynn72]

No, it can still be true and not ruin them, so long as they can trick people into buying it. Plus they have the iPod which keeps them afloat. And I think that the fact that they only have like 4% of the market is proof enough that the typical experience isnt a good one.

My school started giving out MacBooks to students, and most of them hate them. I know several people who sold theirs and bought a PC laptop instead.

 

[No Limit]

come on stigmata, you're taking it out of context ..No limit said:

"I simply can not picture a serious corporation using macs for their regular workstations"

and I posted details on a apple workstation

Just to clarify, when I use the term "workstation" I mean a computer connected to a LAN, not an advanced computer as many people define it. That's simply how I've always used the term for as long as I can remember since the term workstation as an advanced computer doesnt really apply in todays world.

But this discussion is really going no where. I don't see any way a mac could be incorporated into a large corporate enviroment and thats one of the points I was trying to make. If you want to buy it for personal use to each his own, I simply can not understand why you would do that and from what I have seen most mac owners don't understand either.

 

[CptStern]

the ipod does not "keep the afloat" it certainly pads their bottom end but isnt the be all and end all of their business

 

[Krynn72]

there is no mac priced at $18,000

orly?

Ok, sure, the ipod doesnt keep them afloat, but the ipod and the iphone combined do!

(that was a joke)

 

[CptStern]

Just to clarify, when I use the term "workstation" I mean a computer connected to a LAN, not an advanced computer as many people define it. That's simply how I've always used the term for as long as I can remember since the term workstation as an advanced computer doesnt really apply in todays world.

yes but apple isnt geared towards typical office use in a big corporation where workstations cost $500 ..you dont buy a $2000 to do spreadsheets all day

But this discussion is really going no where. I don't see any way a mac could be incorporated into a large corporate enviroment and thats one of the points I was trying to make.

every single design studio within a corporate enviroment has at least one mac

If you want to buy it for personal use to each his own, I simply can not understand why you would do that and from what I have seen most mac owners don't understand either.

but people do do that ..as I've already said in a previous post ..most of the people I see switching are former pc gamers who now game exclusively on consoles ..they usually have disposable income enough to purchase a mac in addition to the pc they may already own ..if I wanted to purchase a computer for the kitchen I'd buy a mac ..or if my wife needed a new work laptop or whatever ..macs generally dont replace pcs they sit next to them

 

[Krynn72]

A computer in the kitchen? Whats this blasphemy?!

 

[CptStern]

yes ..I can sit at my dining room and work instead of heading to my office

 

[Krynn72]

You damn homeowners! Why do you flaunt your multiple computers/rooms at me!

 

[No Limit]

yes but apple isnt geared towards typical office use in a big corporation where workstations cost $500 ..you dont buy a $2000 to do spreadsheets all day

Agreed. Yet there are people that buy macs to do spreadsheets all day. As you said, you've seen an office full of macs, that means most of those macs do spreadsheets, emails, and word documents all day. My question is why? There is no practical explaination for it. As we already agreed on, people are willing to pay more for sex appeal even if it makes absolutely no sense.

every single design studio within a corporate enviroment has at least one mac

I wouldn't automatically agree with you about every singe one, but I will agree that most do. Being a designer myself as you know I don't understand why that's the case in todays world but I'm sure the designers that buy these things have a good reason for it, so I wont try to argue this as I dont fully understand it. Maybe they were raised in the days when macs ruled the print business and don't want to change, that's understandable.

but people do do that ..as I've already said in a previous post ..most of the people I see switching are former pc gamers who now game exclusively on consoles ..they usually have disposable income enough to purchase a mac in addition to the pc they may already own ..if I wanted to purchase a computer for the kitchen I'd buy a mac ..or if my wife needed a new work laptop or whatever ..macs generally dont replace pcs they sit next to them

Right. But the question again is why? What more can your mac do that the pc sitting next to it can't? If you can't explain that to me why would you pay extra for it? Just so you can say you own a mac?

 

[Llama]

there is no mac priced at $18,000 ..and if cost was always an issue apple would be long dead and buried

There is, it's now been shown

The reason apple isn't dead and buried is that they rip people off and lie to them.
Seriously, just because cost is an issue doesn't mean Apples PR machine admits the products it uses are over priced and under performing.

As an example, the nearest I could get to my ?800 system was a ?1000 machine. That doesn't mean that most mac users will tell you their machines are better value for money.
They just don't know. Tell someone something enough and they'll believe it. Problem seems to be that many people buy them because they don't know about the alternatives

 

[Krynn72]

Problem seems to be that many people buy them because they don't know about the alternatives

Thats how it was with the iPod. To this day, my mom calls every mp3 player an iPod. I once was wearing my Zen Vision M in school, and someone asked me if it was a new iPod. I told them "no, its a different mp3 player" and they just looked at me with a dumb expression and said "Whats that?" When I worked at CompUSA I sold mp3 players, and 90% of people came in looking for iPods, and had no clue what the other "devices" were that were around the iPod.

 

[CptStern]

There is, it's now been shown

The reason apple isn't dead and buried is that they rip people off and lie to them.

oh come on you cant seriously believe that ..people are not that stupid ..most apple customers are repeat customers ..I'm hardly an idiot yet would buy a apple ..it's not because I've been lied to

Seriously, just because cost is an issue doesn't mean Apples PR machine admits the products it uses are over priced and under performing.

yes they do, albeit not publically, that's why they switched to intel cpus ..and why would a PR firm tell the truth? they're paid to bend the truth ..why would they purposefully shoot themselves and the credibility of their industry in the foot?

As an example, the nearest I could get to my ?800 system was a ?1000 machine. That doesn't mean that most mac users will tell you their machines are better value for money.
They just don't know.

yes they do, I sure as hell knew

Tell someone something enough and they'll believe it. Problem seems to be that many people buy them because they don't know about the alternatives

who is not aware that there's an alternative to macs? what rock did they crawl out from under?

Thats how it was with the iPod. To this day, my mom calls every mp3 player an iPod.

because that's what the are ..it's a generic name like Kleenex ..even though the proper name is "facial tissue"

I once was wearing my Zen Vision M in school, and someone asked me if it was a new iPod. I told them "no, its a different mp3 player" and they just looked at me with a dumb expression and said "Whats that?" When I worked at CompUSA I sold mp3 players, and 90% of people came in looking for iPods, and had no clue what the other "devices" were that were around the iPod.

apple owns 75% of the mp3 player market ..they were the first to market (at least in a big way) and are synonomous with mp3player ..I mean it's called a podcast for a reason

 

[No Limit]

Thats how it was with the iPod. To this day, my mom calls every mp3 player an iPod. I once was wearing my Zen Vision M in school, and someone asked me if it was a new iPod. I told them "no, its a different mp3 player" and they just looked at me with a dumb expression and said "Whats that?" When I worked at CompUSA I sold mp3 players, and 90% of people came in looking for iPods, and had no clue what the other "devices" were that were around the iPod.

I haven't tried the new zunes yet but for the record I think the iPod is the thing that apple did a great job on. If my nano wasn't stolen or if I had the $200 to replace it I would probably be rocking an iPod right now, I don't see any other mp3 player thats as simple (or maybe I should use the word fast) to use.

 

[CptStern]

the zune was on sale recently for about $50 less than the ipod nano I purchased for more than double the capacity ..didnt even give it a second thought because it's fugly and doesnt appeal to me in any way shape or form

 

[Krynn72]

apple owns 75% of the mp3 player market ..they were the first to market (at least in a big way) and are synonomous with mp3player ..I mean it's called a podcast for a reason

Which says absolutely nothing about the product itself. The biggest reason why they have the market isnt because the iPod is the best, but because it came out first and they marketed the shit out of it to the point where nobody knew what an mp3 player was, but everyone knew the iPod. There are better players than the iPod, but people will buy the worse product simply because they have seen the name and commercials more often. Case in point... you. You buy a more expensive product that has less than half the capacity because you are used to the look of it, and thus like the look of it better than the alternative.

I guess we're just two different people. Im a "Best bang for my buck" person, you're a "Whatever, im rich, ill just buy on a worse thing for more money just because its apple and it looks bland" kind of person.

 

[No Limit]

Which mp3 player do you think is better than the iPod? I am unfortuante enough to be listening to a sansa right now, total crap. The new ipod touch models are simply amazing, I dont see how anyone could argue against that.

 

[CptStern]

Which says absolutely nothing about the product itself. The biggest reason why they have the market isnt because the iPod is the best, but because it came out first and they marketed the shit out of it to the point where nobody knew what an mp3 player was, but everyone knew the iPod. There are better players than the iPod, but people will buy the worse product simply because they have seen the name and commercials more often. Case in point... you. You buy a more expensive product that has less than half the capacity because you are used to the look of it, and thus like the look of it better than the alternative.

you're assuming ..I bought it because it was half the size and half the thickness and wasnt a clunky ugly brown rectangle ..I dont need 20G I have a 20G ipod and only 1/4 is full ..my latest ipod is the size of a credit card and slips into my pocket

I guess we're just two different people. Im a "Best bang for my buck" person, you're a "Whatever, im rich, ill just buy on a worse thing for more money just because its apple and it looks bland" kind of person.

I have a pair of these:

they cost 2 times the price of these:

they're warmer, more water proof and far less expensive than the previous boots, but I cant wear them at the office ..the best bang for the buck isnt always the best buy


btw I am nowhere near rich and enjoy finding a bargain ..I comparison buy everything I purchase

 

[Llama]

oh come on you cant seriously believe that ..people are not that stupid ..most apple customers are repeat customers ..I'm hardly an idiot yet would buy a apple ..it's not because I've been lied to

Then why? No one has demonstrated a suitable reason for buying them yet, so what gives?
If you have evidence that most customers repeatadly go back to Apple, then post it up and that'll be fair enough, but at the moment i'm having trouble believing it.

yes they do, albeit not publically, that's why they switched to intel cpus ..and why would a PR firm tell the truth? they're paid to bend the truth ..why would they purposefully shoot themselves and the credibility of their industry in the foot?

You'd have to be pretty foolish to thing Apple didn't have creative control of all the information they put in the ads. The PR company wouldnt bend the truth, they'd just make the advertisments based on what Apple tells them. It's not the truth, but they don't know that. They're paid to make whatever they are advertising look good.

Switching to Intel wasn't them admitting their stuff is overpriced, it was them switching to a better product. Even so, they still put it in overpriced machines.

yes they do, I sure as hell knew

So why did you waste money? I mean, come on Stern. You're not a very good example of the average consumer because you know a lot more than the average consumer.

who is not aware that there's an alternative to macs? what rock did they crawl out from under?

If you asked the vast majority of PC / Mac / whatever users, they'd say "A PC"
This was probably me not being clear enough in my original point to be honest.
Most people arn't aware that Dell is different to Cyberpower is different to Mesh is different to Alienware. I mean hell, that's the entire Mac advert concept - 'PC' is a single guy in a drab suit. It works because most consumers think of a PC as just that - A single thing. They dont thing of all the different makes and desighns and styles and so on.

For example, I couldn't give you any alternate products for the Mac Pro until this thread. I certainly didn't crawl out of a rock

Hopefully I made that a little clearer.

 

[Krynn72]

Thats like comparing a 60 gig hard drive to a 30 gig mp3 player though. The hard drive is much less expensive than the mp3 player, can hold more stuff, can be used for more things, but needs to be plugged into a computer.

Either way though, those are both some fugly boots. :bleh:

 

[Lamarrfz]

For one thing, Macs don't get viruses, nor BSODs, and they just work. On the other hand, I hate white so much... That's why I have a Windows gaming/Scanning PC, the rest gets done on Linux, yay.

 

[Krynn72]

For one thing, Macs don't get viruses, nor BSODs, and they just work. On the other hand, I hate white so much... That's why I have a Windows gaming/Scanning PC, the rest gets done on Linux, yay.

Another victim of the Apple Marketing bullshit!

They in fact have two BSOD equivilents!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scriptingnews/152166797/
http://static2.podcatch.com/blogs/gems/support/DSCN5629.MOV

 

[CptStern]

Thats like comparing a 60 gig hard drive to a 30 gig mp3 player though. The hard drive is much less expensive than the mp3 player, can hold more stuff, can be used for more things, but needs to be plugged into a computer.

isnt that the point behind a portable player ..I dont want to lug around a brown box that looks like I'm carrying a copy of the bible in my breastpocket ..I wanted something small/simple and above all non obtrusive

Either way though, those are both some fugly boots. :bleh:

people recognise them on the street

"hey you have blunnys ..so do I" ..try them, they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn

 

[Stigmata]

you're assuming ..I bought it because it was half the size and half the thickness and wasnt a clunky ugly brown rectangle ..I dont need 20G I have a 20G ipod and only 1/4 is full ..my latest ipod is the size of a credit card and slips into my pocket

So now... you have two iPods. What are you going to do, listen to a different song in each ear? Or leave one sitting on the shelf for the next six months until you give it away to a friend because you don't use it anymore?

I have a pair of these:

they cost 2 times the price of these:

they're warmer, more water proof and far less expensive than the previous boots, but I cant wear them at the office ..the best bang for the buck isnt always the best buy

If something is simultaneously "the best bang for the buck" and "unusable in situations where I'd want to use it", then how exactly is that the best bang for the buck? You got the boots that suited your needs best.

btw I am nowhere near rich and enjoy finding a bargain ..I comparison buy everything I purchase

If you're so proud of your bargain-hunting, then why did you buy an ipod player that was a) inferior to a cheaper competitor, and b) inferior to another iPod that you already have? I thought the point of making bargain purchases was to save money.

 

[CptStern]

So now... you have two iPods.

3 ipods

If something is simultaneously "the best bang for the buck" and "unusable in situations where I'd want to use it", then how exactly is that the best bang for the buck? You got the boots that suited your needs best.

which was my point ..even though my feet freeze most mornings on the way to work

If you're so proud of your bargain-hunting, then why did you buy an ipod player that was a) inferior to a cheaper competitor, and b) inferior to another iPod that you already have? I thought the point of making bargain purchases was to save money.

it wasnt cheaper because it didnt have what I wanted ..and the other ipods suited my needs at the time I purchased them ..the 20g stopped working a few weeks ago, I may still send it in for repair ..and it's not inferior to the ipod I already have, it's superior

 

[Stigmata]

I'd like to know how. Isn't it more fragile, more prone to scratches, and with less storage capacity?

 

[CptStern]

no, it's a metal case and weighs next to nothing ..it has a flashdrive not a hd like my other ipod ..plus it's the size of a credit card and does everything I need it to do

 

[Krynn72]

isnt that the point behind a portable player ..I dont want to lug around a brown box that looks like I'm carrying a copy of the bible in my breastpocket ..I wanted something small/simple and above all non obtrusive

Well thats the point I was trying to make. Your boots comparison is like my hard drive comparison. You're comparing two things that are similar, but designed for different things. Your boots can only be worn in one place (outside) the hard drive can be used in one place (the computer).

A better comparison would be two work-appropriate boots. Then you need to decide which one is better than the other, when they both are designed for the same thing.

 

[CptStern]

Well thats the point I was trying to make. Your boots comparison is like my hard drive comparison. You're comparing two things that are similar, but designed for different things. Your boots can only be worn in one place (outside) the hard drive can be used in one place (the computer).

no, I've worn the blunnys in the summer

A better comparison would be two work-appropriate boots. Then you need to decide which one is better than the other, when they both are designed for the same thing.

but that's not really accurate as they both have the exact same design: utilitarian, aethetics doesnt play a part in work boots whatsoever

 

[Krynn72]

When did i say anything about not being able to wear them in the summer?

And I didnt mean two of the same boots would be a better comparison, I meant two "work appropriate" boots, as in two pairs of boots that have different styles, possibly from different brands etc.

 

[CptStern]

but they are two different styles ..both are boots that can be worn in the winter

 

[Asus]

I like pink boots and ipod minis as much as the next guy but lets get on-topic.

Why do people like Apple and MacBooks? Is it because they dont like MS?? I dont understand it, what does the Mac OS do that MS OS's cant?

I like the fact that you can emulate Windows on a MAC though

^

 

[Krynn72]

but they are two different styles ..both are boots that can be worn in the winter

The hard drive and mp3 player can both hold music files, but they're still geared toward different purposes. Both boots may be able to be worn in the winter, but one is for outdoors work, the other for more casual indoor wear. They're not a good comparison damnit!

Anyways, as to OP, I heard that the windows emulation isnt very good and eats up a ton of resources. True?

 

[CptStern]

actually blunnys are work boots ..you can buy variations with steel toes/shank ..they were made for the outdoors


as to the OP: no, windows isnt emuklated on a mac, you install windows on a partition, you actually run windows as you would any other OS

 

[Krynn72]

I see.

 

[Javert]

Because they can't play most games, ended up using Microsoft's productivity software anyway, and have less than 15% market share.

Oh wait.

 

[smwScott]

who cares? why do you care? I dont care if someone toutes tag heuer over say cartier or rolex ..I couldnt care less what people buy

Apparently you and a good chunk of the people in this thread do. A large portion of this debate concerns the belief that the only reason people buy their overpriced crap is because of the image of elitism Apple successfully conveys through their ad campaign.

who cares? that's your personal expereince it's is NOT indicative of the typical user experinece ..if that were true apple would be long dead and buried

I need to take notes here, I'm in awe of your argumentative prowess. The "Who Cares?" defense. Excellent response. Many people here have posted personal experiences that were very similar to my own and I know quite a few people who have had similar problems with Macs. This couldn't possibly be more relevant to the argument - but hey, who gives a **** right? It's only the main point of the debate. Next time someone makes a fair point in an argument I'm going to look them right in the eyes and say, "Who cares?".

To sum up - Apple products cost more than the competition, generally have reduced functionality, and rely solely on the ignorance and elitist nature of the populace to stay in business.

Some people are actually knowledgeable of what they're buying and prefer the aesthetic/operating system and think it's worth the extra cost. That's great. No one is arguing that, it's not the point. The point is that those people are not what keep Apple in business, and most of us don't like Apple because they produce sub-standard products for inflated prices. It doesn't get any simpler, there's nothing else to say.

I'm done after this, it's pointless and arguing against such solid logic of "it's prettier" or "no one cares" is futile.

 

[Cole]

The next computer I get will be a Macbook. Why? Why buy a computer that costs more than it would for an equivlant PC?

I just want something that is gonna work. That simple. I also want something that is gonna look good.

Sure windows XP is stable and good. But to often theres small minor driver or program conflicts that annoy me. With an Apple I can be positive all the drivers will be happy together. I can be sure of how well all the programs will integrate together. Thats the main attraction to me.

 

[Qonfused]

Thats how it was with the iPod. To this day, my mom calls every mp3 player an iPod. I once was wearing my Zen Vision M in school, and someone asked me if it was a new iPod. I told them "no, its a different mp3 player" and they just looked at me with a dumb expression and said "Whats that?" When I worked at CompUSA I sold mp3 players, and 90% of people came in looking for iPods, and had no clue what the other "devices" were that were around the iPod.

I hate this. Hate this. Hate. HATE.

you're assuming ..I bought it because it was half the size and half the thickness and wasnt a clunky ugly brown rectangle ..I dont need 20G I have a 20G ipod and only 1/4 is full ..my latest ipod is the size of a credit card and slips into my pocket

Well there you go. There are tons, tons, of other devices that are as slim, have more space, and cost less than the Nano. Yet you buy an iPod for the flashy looks and the name. You're right, it's not my business. But I do get pissed off when people buy inferior products for more. Better products and companies deserve the money if they manufacture a better device. It's bullshit that they can't compete because they can't afford to put a commercial on every single station 15 times a day.

 

[Javert]

"Mac can't play Half-Life 2."

Seriously this thread should have ended a long time ago.

 

[Escaep]

"Mac can't play Half-Life 2."

Seriously this thread should have ended a long time ago.

Actually with Boot Camp now on the Leopard version of OSX you can run any (i believe) Windows application.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4kH5suKHY84