Why would people play the HL2 beta???

[Foxtrot]

Okay then, replies to the pitifall leak downloaders who said I was wrong :




No , it's not stupid. I will be thinking "Oh, so THAT'S what happens next" and "Wow, what a cool sequence", while you will be thinking " Oh, I've seen that before", or "Boring .....". And no, we have OTHER valid arguments ..........



No, I have no direct evidence from Valve, but I know what the feeling is like. Assuming that you're just a kid, you have no experience of what effect moral has on a job !. In the adult world, jobs have lots of factors, like deadlines, opinions, morals, ethics and so on, and if you find the cool little program that you've been developing for 6 months is stolen, and then suddenly it appears on the market, what do you feel ? Angry, disappointed and downcast ! This can add extra weeks to a company project, or 2 extra ! Mackers ain't the only job in the world, kid .....



Valve wouldn't want their systems hacked again, would they ? So they would naturally seek out how the hacker got in, and seal it up, while checking (and updating) their security systems. Again, your statement shows how immature you are ........



And you contadicted yourself with your above statement, good for you ........



Except you illegally downloaded it off the internet. All the "faceless" beta downloaders, come and say that to my face, or otherwise I will think you nothing more than cowards, hiding behind weak, pathetic excuses. At least poseyjmac had the guts to face up to my comments, even though his comments were immature ....

Face it, you beta downloaders are in the wrong side of the ethical community, accept YOU ARE WRONG, and come and face it like a man. You know your excuses are weak, and they don't justify your actions, so come out and admit you're wrong ....

That's all .....

I can justify my actions, I hurt no one by downloading it and I had fun with it. And what do you want me to say to your face? That I downloaded the leaked build...alright tough guy. /me waits for this thread to be locked.

 

[Impulse147]

if its so wrong why is it on a site that is well known, and has tons of other warez on it? wouldn't it be shut down quickly? yet its been up for 3 yrs maybe more.

 

[adulus]

Neo_Kuja, i got a few words for you.
You have added no intelligent discussion to this post w/ your reply. You flame others mercilessly. Your post actually hurts to read. Not because it insults everything and everyone around you, but because of the sheer hostility.

NO ONE GIVES A SHIT WHAT YOU THINK OF THEM DLING THE LEAK

They did it, its too late. The damage is done to valve anyway, there is no harm in downloading it afterwards. I wish the hacker didn't do it. He delayed the product for weeks, maybe months. If he hadn't done it, we would be playing the full game right now. But he did it, and there no use crying over spilled milk.

 

[poseyjmac]

Okay then, replies to the pitifall leak downloaders who said I was wrong :




No , it's not stupid. I will be thinking "Oh, so THAT'S what happens next" and "Wow, what a cool sequence", while you will be thinking " Oh, I've seen that before", or "Boring .....". And no, we have OTHER valid arguments ..........

You assume too much. you assume that people who play the leak spoil the game for themselves. when in fact most people just play it to fool around with physics in the plinko room. so the satisfaction you THINK you're going to have is imaginary for the most part.

No, I have no direct evidence from Valve, but I know what the feeling is like. Assuming that you're just a kid, you have no experience of what effect moral has on a job !. In the adult world, jobs have lots of factors, like deadlines, opinions, morals, ethics and so on, and if you find the cool little program that you've been developing for 6 months is stolen, and then suddenly it appears on the market, what do you feel ? Angry, disappointed and downcast ! This can add extra weeks to a company project, or 2 extra ! Mackers ain't the only job in the world, kid .....

ah.. the 'treat him like a kid' routine, so as to offend or get a rise out of the person B. it is a reactionary routine which is triggered by something person B had said challenging Person A's ego. unfornuately its so overused in forums, it has lost all offensive effect on me. so give me a hug :burp:

Valve wouldn't want their systems hacked again, would they ? So they would naturally seek out how the hacker got in, and seal it up, while checking (and updating) their security systems. Again, your statement shows how immature you are ........

? no one is challenging this? your quotes are in stone and can be read by all. you said it was the fault of the people who downloaded the leak that valve had to spend time to upgrade their security. I said that it was the fault of the hacker that valve had to upgrade their security. your comment is confusing, but i guess you were trying to save face in a strange way.

And you contadicted yourself with your above statement, good for you ........

no offense, but im beginning to wonder if you know english very well. I dont' see how i contradicted myself. unless someone else wants to chime in and explain why?

Except you illegally downloaded it off the internet. All the "faceless" beta downloaders, come and say that to my face, or otherwise I will think you nothing more than cowards, hiding behind weak, pathetic excuses. At least poseyjmac had the guts to face up to my comments, even though his comments were immature ....

Face it, you beta downloaders are in the wrong side of the ethical community, accept YOU ARE WRONG, and come and face it like a man. You know your excuses are weak, and they don't justify your actions, so come out and admit you're wrong ....

That's all .....

a summary of statements with no evidence to back them up. a sign of surrender. dont surrender neo, im still having fun with you.

if only you could see the irony of your comment about me being on the wrong side of the ethical community, its people like me who are going to make mods and maps for the hl2 community. a lot of us just wanted to check out the dev tools for hl2, see what we are going to be working with. dont be so quick to pass judgment.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

a summary of statements with no evidence to back them up. a sign of surrender. dont surrender neo, im still having fun with you.

I don't intend to surrender, FAR from it......

? no one is challenging this? your quotes are in stone and can be read by all. you said it was the fault of the people who downloaded the leak that valve had to spend time to upgrade their security. I said that it was the fault of the hacker that valve had to upgrade their security. your comment is confusing, but i guess you were trying to save face in a strange way.

Okay, let's put it in laymen's terms .....

1) Mr "X" hacks Company "Z", and posts the contents on the web. Mr "X" gets praise and good kudos all around, and everyone downloads the stuff he copied. Company "Z" is naturally unhappy about this, and decides to update it's security software, BUT now more hackers are wanting praise as well (as a hacker, you don't get much ..), so they decide to target Company "Z", and release more stuff to the community. Unfortunatly (or fortunatly, depending on your viewpoint), Mr "X" gets caught by Company "Z", and gets put in Jail. However, Company "Z" is now fearful of more hackers, so updates it's security systems more often, which causes more DISRUPTION in their projects.

*OR*

2) Mr "X" hacks Company "Z", and posts the contents on the web. HOWEVER, this time, no-one touches the stuff, and Mr "X" doesn't get ANY praise at all !. The other Hackers are uniterested, as there is no PRAISE in it for them. Company "Z" is naturally unhappy, but because of the outcome, very few hackers are targeting Company "Z", so they only update their security systems occasionally, which causes LESS disruption to the project.

I'm pretty sure that everyone can understand who "Mr X" and "Company Z" are, if you can't ..... well, too bad. BUT notice what the main factor is in both situations , The Community ! In example 1), The hacker was praised, and as a result MORE hackers wanted more praise. In example 2), The hacker got no praise, and as a result FEWER hackers wanted to try and break into "Company Z's" mainframe. As a last note, you can be sure that hackers are targeting "Company Z", but "Company Z" hasn't told us because it is to minor to mention .....

You assume too much. you assume that people who play the leak spoil the game for themselves. when in fact most people just play it to fool around with physics in the plinko room.

And ..... ? It's still illegal, and immoral (and unethical) to download that leak , when Valve has put in so much effort to make the game as enjoyable to first-comers, and I personally don't care if people spoil it for themselves or not, it's the act of downloading it which is the problem. If someones spoils the storyline for themselves, all the better for them......

if only you could see the irony of your comment about me being on the wrong side of the ethical community, its people like me who are going to make mods and maps for the hl2 community. a lot of us just wanted to check out the dev tools for hl2, see what we are going to be working with

And your point ..... ? Another excuse, you guys have got to get some good ones apart from " I only did it because I wanted to see _____ " or "I'm not hurting Valve by downloading it" and so on ....

no offense, but im beginning to wonder if you know english very well. I dont' see how i contradicted myself. unless someone else wants to chime in and explain why?

These two statements :

now whether no one or 50000 people downloaded it after that would have no affect on valve's course of action.

the fact that valve knew that one person had the code was reason enough to have to make some changes.

OR

"No offense, but im beginning to wonder if you know english very well. I dont' see how i contradicted myself. unless someone else wants to chime in and explain why?" = "Since I cannot back up my argument, I am going to mutter something about his english skills, in a vague attempt that he may be sidetracked into flaming me, discrediting his argument and making him look like a troll"

Not gonna work buddy, I've got to much forum experience on other boards to fall for that old trick

Admit that you were WRONG downloading the leak, and I'll stop arguing, that simple ......

 

[urseus]

Okay then, replies to the pitifall leak downloaders who said I was wrong :




No , it's not stupid. I will be thinking "Oh, so THAT'S what happens next" and "Wow, what a cool sequence", while you will be thinking " Oh, I've seen that before", or "Boring .....". And no, we have OTHER valid arguments ..........

So....if somone was playing the physics demo that they(and you) have already seen, and isnt even in the finished game...theyll ruin it for themselves? I like your thunkin!!

Except you illegally downloaded it off the internet. All the "faceless" beta downloaders, come and say that to my face, or otherwise I will think you nothing more than cowards, hiding behind weak, pathetic excuses. At least poseyjmac had the guts to face up to my comments, even though his comments were immature ....

What you want to meet up and beat people up now? What? Your trying to win your argument by physical prowess, a typical male response when the extent of their arguing power has been reached. That is why discussions on the internet are so great, noone can resort to physical violence to defeat an oponant, and is relient on solid debate.

Face it, you beta downloaders are in the wrong side of the ethical community, accept YOU ARE WRONG, and come and face it like a man. You know your excuses are weak, and they don't justify your actions, so come out and admit you're wrong ....

That's all .....

What the hell are you aiming at here? Face what like a man? What people are doing is illegal. Noone is claiming other wise. BTW Plz delete all your MP3s and Movies from Kazza before answering KTHZBIE!

People who downloaded the beta are doing something illegal, however it is simply an extension of every single person who has ever double clicked internet explorer and pressed connect. Everyone, EVERYONE, has stolen songs, or movies, even pictures, from somone else on the internet without their express permission. The only way to stop it is good security. Once its on the internet, cut your losses, its over, its out there.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

What the hell are you aiming at here? Face what like a man? What people are doing is illegal. Noone is claiming other wise. BTW Plz delete all your MP3s and Movies from Kazza before answering KTHZBIE!

* Specificly talks to poseyjmac *

I am sorry that I called you immature, and I just realized that we were having a unformal discussion. The poster of the last message is obviously immature, with rampant statements, like "Everyone, EVERYONE, has stolen songs, or movies, even pictures, from somone else on the internet without their express permission" and "I like your thunkin!!", so please accept this apology, and hopefully we can discuss this in a civilised manner, without idiots posting how offended they are .....

Make up ? :cheers:

 

[Neutrino]

Aw crap. Nevermind.

 

[ASnogarD]

Ummm why should the 'leak/beta/whatever" downloader justify anything to you ? You are entitled to your opinion but have no right to condem others based on your opinion.

Quiet frankly I can understand the curiousity, the temptation to peek at tthe "leak/beta/whatever". Some wanted to see HL2 , others wanted to play with the much advertised physics and yet others wanted to see what tools were available for user created content.

I downloaded it because I really wanted to see how it performs (the beta/leak/whatever) on my PC (PIV 2ghz 768 meg ddr GFti 4200) and how it compares to my brothers machine (PIV 2.8 768 meg ddr Raideon 9600se). I am well aware its only a non-release build but I would think if a non optimised build would run relatively smoothly then the full ver. could only run better not worse.

I can report that the leaked build ran very smoothly on both me and my brothers machines, and the differences in eyecandy between both machines is handled very well...its a funny case of if you don't have the capacity to run all the details you wouldn't really miss them but if you do have the capacity you would still appreciate the added effects, nicely balanced.

My opinion on the build: Valve is well on the road (at the time of the stolen build) to creating a successfull sequel to HL 1. The tools they created are exceptional, all that remains is the story and design.

 

[urseus]

* Specificly talks to poseyjmac *

I am sorry that I called you immature, and I just realized that we were having a unformal discussion. The poster of the last message is obviously immature, with rampant statements, like "Everyone, EVERYONE, has stolen songs, or movies, even pictures, from somone else on the internet without their express permission" and "I like your thunkin!!", so please accept this apology, and hopefully we can discuss this in a civilised manner, without idiots posting how offended they are .....

Make up ? :cheers:

Sorry if my arguing style leaves you with little recourse, ie you have no response to any of my points. Also my "everyone" statment is called emphasis. If i can refur to my sociology studies for a moment to diagnose you:

You are finding it increasingly difficult to argue with one educated person, and now with another against you with arguments to which you cannot counter, you attempt to cut your losses and exit from the debate saving as much face as you can. To do this, you chose the one who you have been thwarted by and attempt to reach him on an "oponants respect" level. You are hoping to win him over so he will no longer argue with as much ferocity, thus allowing you to concetrate on the other, me, who you have incorrectly assumed is unable to carry on intelligent debate, hence why you try to talk over me in a condecending way.

 

[Neo_Kuja]

You are hoping to win him over so he will no longer argue with as much ferocity, thus allowing you to concetrate on the other, me, who you have incorrectly assumed is unable to carry on intelligent debate, hence why you try to talk over me in a condecending way.

To a point, you are right, I do respect that he has made some good points, and I consider him a worthy person to argue with, as he clearly states what the problem is, and how I said I was wrong. Meanwhile, you entered with a "I like your thunkin!!" and "BTW Plz delete all your MP3s and Movies from Kazza before answering KTHZBIE", which suggested you were socially immature, so I attempted to dissuade you from answering in a further way by discrediting what you said.

IF you can prove to me that you are a intelligent, worthy person to discuss a matter with, I will have no trouble doing so. The last post you made (While flaming me) was more intelligentally written, therefore I have responded in a civilised manner.

Btw, don't try to include sociology, or analyse what I say, I'm too complicated (and stubborn) for that ...

 

[urseus]

The problem though is you havent discredited what i have said.

By responding, i asume you have deleted all illegally obtained data from your hard drive?

 

[Neo_Kuja]

I didn't have "Illegal Data" any in the first place .......
And you can't boss me around .....

 

[urseus]

Boss you around you say...

So not a single MP3, not a single movie, not a single episode of a TV show. Not in any single cylinder of your computer, is there a picture you have seen on a website and thought gee i like that, i might download it for a wallpaper.

You sir, are the Jesus of the internet.

 

[Rupertvdb]

So....if somone was playing the physics demo that they(and you) have already seen, and isnt even in the finished game...theyll ruin it for themselves? I like your thunkin!!

But then someone who has played every other level on the thing and then runs around telling everyone about this does ruin for themselves and more importantly me.

What you want to meet up and beat people up now? What? Your trying to win your argument by physical prowess, a typical male response when the extent of their arguing power has been reached. That is why discussions on the internet are so great, noone can resort to physical violence to defeat an oponant, and is relient on solid debate.

Shush, haven't you seen that image 'the thing about foreign debates, if you win, you're still retarded' don't harp on about victory and stereotypes during your discourse, it demeans you and strays from your point.

What the hell are you aiming at here? Face what like a man? What people are doing is illegal. Noone is claiming other wise. BTW Plz delete all your MP3s and Movies from Kazza before answering KTHZBIE!

We have to be totally moral before we can make moral claims, meanwhile you dictate these values to us from your high and mighty position of self confessed thief.

People who downloaded the beta are doing something illegal, however it is simply an extension of every single person who has ever double clicked internet explorer and pressed connect. Everyone, EVERYONE, has stolen songs, or movies, even pictures, from somone else on the internet without their express permission. The only way to stop it is good security. Once its on the internet, cut your losses, its over, its out there.

This is a senseless statement, getting the Beta is not a simple thing to do it takes a determined will, it's ridiculous to justify your efforts by appealing to the mob, just because others do it doesn't make it right. 'For evil to prevail' and all that debate.

This thread is fairly sensless and is going around in circles, the best thing is for those who have got the beta to just shut the hell up, i don't care how great you are at hacking, i don't care how society sees your actions, i do not give a moments thought to whether or not you have ruined the game for yourselves, i literally don't let it worry me, but when your super great efforts cause something i look forward to to be spoiled then i want to snap your necks. So shut the hell up and so will I.

 

[urseus]

But then someone who has played every other level on the thing and then runs around telling everyone about this does ruin for themselves and more importantly me.

So dont read threads that have the word spoiler in them, or read only heavily moderated forums like this which prevents talk and download of the leak.

Shush, haven't you seen that image 'the thing about foreign debates, if you win, you're still retarded' don't harp on about victory and stereotypes during your discourse, it demeans you and strays from your point.

Actually, seeing that image is what inspired my statment. Arguing on the internet is actually the best way to hold a discussion. In real life arguments are usually settled by social standing and physical prowess, which is why so often you see the threat "you talk tough on here, in real life id beat the shit out of you!". This is not how discussions should be held. Having them on a facless forum allows everyone to be on equal ground, with only your argument to decide your victory or loss.

We have to be totally moral before we can make moral claims, meanwhile you dictate these values to us from your high and mighty position of self confessed thief.

Actually, thats our argument, you cant use it. Unless you too are a sinless internet jesus, your a thief as well Jonny McMP3downloadsalot. Welcome to the high and mighty mountain, its fun up here!

This is a senseless statement, getting the Beta is not a simple thing to do it takes a determined will, it's ridiculous to justify your efforts by appealing to the mob, just because others do it doesn't make it right. 'For evil to prevail' and all that debate.

If you indicated it takes a fair bit of internet skill to aquire the beta, that is completly subjective. It might seem harder than downloading (STEALING!!!!!) some songs from kazza, but to somone like your mother it would be just as hard to navigate to hotmail.

 

[Rupertvdb]

so what's your point, the high and mighty reference is complete contentless name calling...in fact that is what your whole thread is. My mother can't use the internet...so what? Subjective?That's true to the extent everything involves subjectivity but the simple fact is people find it harder to get the Beta than not, so you put effort into it.

Your so called reasoned debate went out the window with that pathetic collection of mismeshed value judgements.

 

[urseus]

So your point is that because it takes alot of effort its more wrong than stealing music?

MishMeshed?

Dispute it. Turn off 'Metalica - Enter Sandman.mp3' and dispute it.

 

[Rupertvdb]

please.....

I didn't say it was wrong because it takes more effort than stealing music, i simply negated your point about it being simple to obtain.

Mismeshed separated is mis - meshed. As in a good argument meshes well, it correlates, its points support each other and add to the power of its reason, attempting to create an argument with a power greater than the sum of its parts. 'Mis' implies the total failure of this.

If you read my post properly you would see how little i care for the legalities of the Beta, you are being purposefully difficult and it makes you look cretinous.

Cease using terrible little jabs to agitate the forum or the mods will not want you to be here.

 

[Gunner]

Sorry if my arguing style leaves you with little recourse, ie you have no response to any of my points. Also my "everyone" statment is called emphasis. If i can refur to my sociology studies for a moment to diagnose you:

You are finding it increasingly difficult to argue with one educated person, and now with another against you with arguments to which you cannot counter, you attempt to cut your losses and exit from the debate saving as much face as you can. To do this, you chose the one who you have been thwarted by and attempt to reach him on an "oponants respect" level. You are hoping to win him over so he will no longer argue with as much ferocity, thus allowing you to concetrate on the other, me, who you have incorrectly assumed is unable to carry on intelligent debate, hence why you try to talk over me in a condecending way.

Pathetic. Who are you trying to impress?

 

[urseus]

^^^I am trying to impress noone, as i stated earlier, this is a faceless internet board. There is no gain for anyone other than discussion. If you will notice how my comments were in fact accurite, as verifyed by the subject.

please.....

I didn't say it was wrong because it takes more effort than stealing music, i simply negated your point about it being simple to obtain.

Mismeshed separated is mis - meshed. As in a good argument meshes well, it correlates, its points support each other and add to the power of its reason, attempting to create an argument with a power greater than the sum of its parts. 'Mis' implies the total failure of this.

If you read my post properly you would see how little i care for the legalities of the Beta, you are being purposefully difficult and it makes you look cretinous.

Cease using terrible little jabs to agitate the forum or the mods will not want you to be here.

Ah, the final stage. Attacks on sentence structure and spelling.

When did i say it was simple to obtain. I wouldnt know, i havent downloaded it. Im only discussing it to make people see how hypocritical they are when they acuse others of stealing intelectual property.

That is my overall argument, i only segmented it to properly respond to each point. I do not belive i am being difficult, i am responding in a calm manour with relivent arguments and evidence. I have not been rude, nor have i done anything against the forum rules.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Ah, the final stage. Attacks on sentence structure and spelling.

Feel free to quote me, i fail to see where i commented on your presentation, are you even reading my responses?

When did i say it was simple to obtain. I wouldnt know, i havent downloaded it. Im only discussing it to make people see how hypocritical they are when they acuse others of stealing intelectual property.

If you indicated it takes a fair bit of internet skill to aquire the beta, that is completly subjective. It might seem harder than downloading (STEALING!!!!!) some songs from kazza, but to somone like your mother it would be just as hard to navigate to hotmail.

Implies that very thing. If you weren't insisting it was easy to download why did you start harping on about its challenge being subjective.

That is my overall argument, i only segmented it to properly respond to each point. I do not belive i am being difficult, i am responding in a calm manour with relivent arguments and evidence. I have not been rude, nor have i done anything against the forum rules.

Dispute it. Turn off 'Metalica - Enter Sandman.mp3' and dispute it.

Actually, thats our argument, you cant use it. Unless you too are a sinless internet jesus, your a thief as well Jonny McMP3downloadsalot. Welcome to the high and mighty mountain, its fun up here!

BTW Plz delete all your MP3s and Movies from Kazza before answering KTHZBIE!

You sir, are the Jesus of the internet.

None if these statements are particularly polite, respectful or in the spirit of reasoned debate, you maintain your argument through churlish and ridiculous misinterpretation of people's arguments.

In your last point you said 'this is my overall argument' without explaining what it even was.
As mentioned earlier in my post you accused me of reverting to direct criticism of your grasp of english which i never actually did.

Why not disengage and let this thread stop?

 

[urseus]

Implies that very thing. If you weren't insisting it was easy to download why did you start harping on about its challenge being subjective.

You just quoted me saying it wasnt easy to obtain. So....yeah?

In your last point you said 'this is my overall argument' without explaining what it even was.

When did i say it was simple to obtain. I wouldnt know, i havent downloaded it. Im only discussing it to make people see how hypocritical they are when they acuse others of stealing intelectual property.

That is my overall argument.

Also none of my above statments are in any way as derogatory as out and out name calling, swearing, or trolling. Nor have you at all engaged in them. All im saying is I have not done anything to warrent a banning.

 

[Cybernoid]

The leakplayers should just go **** themselves and find another forum. Retards.

 

[dura]

Yeah, anyone with curiousity is a retard. Opinions are gold.

 

[Cybernoid]

Yeah, anyone with curiousity is a retard. Opinions are gold.

Curiosity is not inherently a good thing.

 

[urseus]

Curiosity saved the cat.

 

[CR0M]

This thread is better than cinema. Popcorn anyone?

 

[KagePrototype]

Can we lay this thread to rest now? The arguments are getting pointless now, we're going around in circles...

 

[Gunner]

Can we lay this thread to rest now? The arguments are getting pointless now, we're going around in circles...

Nay! This thread will go on I say!

 

[urseus]

Im spent....

Time for a ciggy and a cuddle...

 

[dura]

Time to cuddle with my puppy and feed it oranges.

 

[Mr_W]

Curiosity saved the cat.

Curiosity didn't save the cat, it killed it, But this saved it.

If I had a time machine and sveral thousand dollars I'd travel to the future and buy a bunch of copies of HL2 CE for you guys.

 

[CR0M]

Time to cuddle with my puppy and feed it oranges.

Try lemons.

or chilli sauce. That's always good for a photo.

 

[Axyon]

This is going way off-topic now, time to close.