Ban the guns

Let me put it this way:

You have a right to bear arms in order to defend yourself. OK, fair enough.

You do not have the right to bear arms if you aim to bring harm to others. Hmmm.

Let me put it another way. The American attitude towards gun ownership is "Because guns are sold legally, and easily purchased by anyone claiming they're going deer hunting, we should all have them for self-protection. Even the maniacs and homicidal losers. Especially when we can't identify them."
 
Jintor said:
Let me put it this way:

You have a right to bear arms in order to defend yourself. OK, fair enough.

You do not have the right to bear arms if you aim to bring harm to others. Hmmm.

Let me put it another way. The American attitude towards gun ownership is "Because guns are sold legally, and easily purchased by anyone claiming they're going deer hunting, we should all have them for self-protection. Even the maniacs and homicidal losers. Especially when we can't identify them."
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Hey, if you have to have guns, why not make it difficult for minors and those prone to violent rage/crime to have access to them?

Have laws that ensure that to be a gun owner you need to be registered. And that you cannot get a gun if you have a criminal record.

Plus limit the type of guns you can buy. Nobody (and I mean nobody) needs an assault weapon.
 
Pogrom said:
Hey, if you have to have guns, why not make it difficult for minors and those prone to violent rage/crime to have access to them?

Have laws that ensure that to be a gun owner you need to be registered. And that you cannot get a gun if you have a criminal record.

Plus limit the type of guns you can buy. Nobody (and I mean nobody) needs an assault weapon.
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What about the police? They need their assault weapons.
 
Yeah, the police in the US have not always carried assault weapons. They were taught the need to have them by criminals who took advantage of this fact.
the guy is full of crap, he's very misleading in the majority that he says about canada
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I'm anything but a Moore fan, but I have to agree. Not that he doesn't have some points, but hes far from objective.
 
Pogrom said:
I agree!

Darwin will triumph sooner or later! :thumbs:
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LoL!! I can almost see the wind rushing past his head as that went completely over it ...I truely truely hope you're right ...btw welcome back Pogrom, it's been a long time :)
 
pentagon said:
Glad to see you joining the debate :) It would help if you'd post the links to these statistics so we can see for ourselves, searching for them is no fun :eek:

I can't say whether this guy is 100% true or not, but I hope you don't think Moore tells the whole truth either.
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here's a link that refutes most of what he says
 
ALEXDJ said:
This is about that minessota shooting,
as i see it, if there were no guns, there would be no shooting

i'm from russia, and kids are alot more violent there, but nobody shoots anybody in schools because, well there are no guns, what so ever. i'm sure if there were guns available then there would be a shooting every day, but there are simply no guns around

on the other hand, in america, everybody blames video games, movies, but nobody says anything about the guns, it's just unreal to me

are the people that dumb, that they can't see a problem as clear as that?
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An analogy to that is banning cars to prevent drunk driving.

http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/selfdefense/CSD-JCJ-JFP-8-3-99.pdf
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st/st176/

http://www.tsra.com/LottPage.htm


Dis-prove any article. Solid facts only. There's one particular article I'll get when I get home, it's huge, I printed it out and read it. It takes a neutral stance, but the evidence overwhelms it.
 
Because the crime rate is lower due to
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The violent crime rate in Canada is more then twice that of the rate in the US. So I fail to see your point.

This myth about Canada having no crime is the reason crime problems aren't being addressed here.
 
I agree, you should ban the guns. The law in the constitution that gives you the right to own firearms freely is a very old one, one written when the police weren't nearly as good nor as effective as they are now. Today I don't see what normal people are doing with guns except harming other people.
 
MaxiKana said:
I agree, you should ban the guns. The law in the constitution that gives you the right to own firearms freely is a very old one, one written when the police weren't nearly as good nor as effective as they are now. Today I don't see what normal people are doing with guns except harming other people.
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good point, it's too old and outdated, we don't need guns, we need more loving
 
If you want to live someplace without guns then move there. You have no right to impose youre beliefs on me. If you think you are so right, go join the brady campaign.
 
Didn't we have this whole discussion some months ago? Anywho, I ive in a country woth gouns banned, and I never ever fear to be shot, nor do I ever see the reason to defend myself with a gun, when the villains don't have guns.
 
MaxiKana said:
Today I don't see what normal people are doing with guns except harming other people.
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So you are saying that out of the 80 some million gun owners in the US all of them are harming people? I think statistics disagree with your assumption:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/firearmnonfataltab.htm

2003: 366,840 firearm incidents

Simple math says that less than half of a percent (.5%) comit a gun crime.
 
MaxiKana said:
I agree, you should ban the guns. The law in the constitution that gives you the right to own firearms freely is a very old one, one written when the police weren't nearly as good nor as effective as they are now. Today I don't see what normal people are doing with guns except harming other people.
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Read this

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundef...01_archive.html

apparently the police still aren't very effective, people have to take the matter into their own hands if they want to live. Police aren't going to help much in these situations..cut out the middle man and take care of it yourself, otherwise you'll just be another victim.
 
MaxiKana said:
I agree, you should ban the guns. The law in the constitution that gives you the right to own firearms freely is a very old one, one written when the police weren't nearly as good nor as effective as they are now. Today I don't see what normal people are doing with guns except harming other people.
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The problem is, they AREN'T effective, AT ALL. Police only show up 99% of the time AFTER a violent crime has happened. Canada has the shittiest stance, basically if you get attack, let it happen and be passive about it. I'm dead serious, too. If I club the guy with a rock and he passes out, I run the very certain risk of even possibly jail time for aggravated assault with a weapon.


I live in a country run by idiots.
 
No Limit said:
So you are saying that out of the 80 some million gun owners in the US all of them are harming people? .
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no, but they have the potential and powere to be harmful to the lenth of murder
 
piss off a guy in a bar in Texas and see how long it takes him to shut you up with his weapon,

i would be freaken scared to go to a bar where i know people have guns
 
MaxiKana said:
I agree, you should ban the guns. The law in the constitution that gives you the right to own firearms freely is a very old one, one written when the police weren't nearly as good nor as effective as they are now. Today I don't see what normal people are doing with guns except harming other people.
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Problem is most of the people committing crimes with guns don;t legally own them, they got them illegally, and fine, upstanding citizens who know the police don;t always show up on time, if at all, like to know that they could protect themselves in a dangerous, and possibly deadly, situation
If you ban guns, and take away the 2nd Amendment all the criminals will still get them illegally, all you're doing is taking away the ability for people to protect themselves and feel a little bit safer
Personally I think crime would skyrocket if the 2nd Amendment was overturned
 
ALEXDJ said:
good point, it's too old and outdated, we don't need guns, we need more loving
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How can an ammendment in the bill of rights be outdated? We as Americans have every right to own a gun. If you don't want a gun, okay, don't buy one. If you don't want to be shot by one, move into a good area.

And to counter "youre still unsafe in schools nowadays!", the last time something like this has happened was columbine 8 years ago! You may be able to call the "beltway snipers" school shootings, but again, probability. I'm not scared, the snipers were caught 4 miles from my house in Myersville, MD!!
 
ALEXDJ. Stop pushing your controversial views on people when you have no argument. You can't ban guns in the USA. Bitching about it won't solve anything. You can discuss it all you want, but it won't happen. Guns are more useful then you think. Like someone said in one of the earlier posts. You are over-simplifying this issue tremendously. All your replies just seem ignorant to me, so just stop with these threads about abortions and guns when it's all about opinion. Controversy is controversy. The only thing I got out of you this whole entire thread is that "Guns kill people so they should be banned". Nothing else you said made any sense. If you want to see a 20-page thread on this SAME EXACT ISSUE, take a walk to the politics forum.
 
bliink said:
If you bring a gun into a fight, you have lethal power available, and therefore you become a mortal threat to someone.
Having a gun just makes you an even bigger target.
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Don't agree Bliink. I guess you are limiting what you say to civilian situations?

Potentially, knowingly brandishing a gun or telling others you have one means that if they are going to rob you, they will use lethal force or threat of lethal force to disarm you. This is more likely to happen in inside type jobs...... so if you have a gun, maybe best not to tell others and let them find out the hard way. Conversely, the fact that you have a gun may dissuade some from robbing you. Hard to know.

But actually having a gun, enables you to have more of an option to defend yourself if you need to. I used to do security work, and I was glad I had a permit to carry a weapon. Just the other day in Sydney, two guards defended themselves against robbers firing pistols at them. If they did not have guns, they would be dead.
 
Calanen said:
But actually having a gun, enables you to have more of an option to defend yourself if you need to. I used to do security work, and I was glad I had a permit to carry a weapon. Just the other day in Sydney, two guards defended themselves against robbers firing pistols at them. If they did not have guns, they would be dead.
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I used to be a security guard too.

The biggest threat IMO in being an armed guard in Australia is that robbers come not to steal cash, but your gun- probably worth more to them than a one off bundle of cash.

A security guard with a gun is a massive target; especially if they know you can't use it to protect whatever you're guarding.

EDIT: Yes, I was speaking in civilian terms. (essentially the same with security guards)

EDIT2: Who's to say the robbers would have brought or used pistols if the guards were unarmed?
 
And if they were set on raping them, I don't believe they would have a firearm on their person. Murderers maybe, as they could use the gun to kill the person
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Yeah I'd like to see those statistics......honor code of rapists mean they don't carry guns?
 
piss off a guy in a bar in Texas and see how long it takes him to shut you up with his weaponpiss off a guy in a bar in Texas and see how long it takes him to shut you up with his weapon
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Where did this come from?? A movie? That is what it sounds like to me. My best friend moved to Texas, and she has not been threatened by drunk gun toting Texan yet, and it is highly probable that she never will be. Sigh... I miss her so much... back on topic...

I personally keep a pellet rifle by my bed and the ammo tin is right next to it. I know that i would be the first to respond in the case of a break in. To be honest, it worries me, becuase i have one shot. However, i know my weapon, i practiced every week for an hour, and i feel confident. That is not to say everyone needs that type of force available to them, but as long as a criminal can have access to a weapon i want mine.

A ban on guns would just mean that people would hunker down, lock them in a closet and not use them until the need arose. Also, it may turn out that if a pistol is just as illegal as an assault rifle, why not get one of those?
 
I keep a BB/Pellet gun in my closet, and my dad owns a few real guns. None if this bothers me a bit =).
 
You could never get rid of guns in America. They are everywhere. There is no way you could get rid of them all.

In certain areas 10/10 families own guns - and they are a good shot. Me being one of them. Im a certified expert marksman. I have always loved guns since I was a child, and began using Air-guns at about 10.

I would never do something foolish with it (except that one time :O )and treat it ever-so carefully, like it is a bomb, so as no one gets hurt.

The only thing I can think of to get rid of them is to offer alot more money than they are worth for turning them in to police.

Police in Washington D.C. (i think)They have tried this before, and alot of people turned in guns anonymously for cash.

But really, this could be counter-productive. You are going to have alot of people going out to steal guns and turning in their friends dads gun, etc. to get alot of money.

EDIT: By the way, I never fear of being shot. If you are afraid of being shot, You are in the wrong place baby. Stay away...

One reason Im not scared is becuase the penalty just for possesing a loaded, concealed firearm in public is like 5 years in prison, and another year for each bullet that is loaded in the gun, and the penalty for killing cop or federal employee is death.

Also, I believe that generally, humans are loving species that does not like to kill people. There are exceptions of course.
 
Vigilante said:
And to counter "youre still unsafe in schools nowadays!", the last time something like this has happened was columbine 8 years ago! You may be able to call the "beltway snipers" school shootings, but again, probability. I'm not scared, the snipers were caught 4 miles from my house in Myersville, MD!!
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http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Sure, this recent one may have been the worst since Columbine, but a shooting has happnened at least once a year (in the US, except for 2004)
 
As if the post i just posted wasn't long enough I have one more valuable thing to add.

It has been proven that areas in America where nearly everyone has a gun have a drastically lower crime rate. :farmer:
 
most poignant statement made in this thread:

"I would never do something foolish with it (except that one time)"
 
CptStern said:
most poignant statement made in this thread:

"I would never do something foolish with it (except that one time)"
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lol except that one time.....

bomba390.jpg
 
LoL!!! :LOL: Murray you are my hero, that's a classic :thumbs:
 
Murray_H said:
lol except that one time.....

bomba390.jpg
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:D

Yea I knew I was asking for it by putting it in there, but it was really almost a joke, so I put it in.

I had it under my seat becuase I was 16, and just got a drivers license, and thought it would be "cool". It was one time, and it was an air-gun, and I didn't pull it out or anything.

Kids are stupid. I know I was when I was a kid.
 
This had me thinking.

I was 16. That one time I decided to put a gun (albeit a BB air gun) under my car seat and drive somewhere was such a stupid thing.

This lead me to believe I was more dangerous, and above the law or something, and actually a man stoped next to me at a stop-light, got out of his truck, and proceeded to curse me out banging on my window saying, " you crazy moron, Ive got my kids in the car, you drive like an ass you idiot, and I said something smart back to him like "wtf are u talking about man Im just driving right" and He SPIT INTO MY EYEBALL and walked back to his truck. It was such a good shot i was blinded in one eye.

It felt so discusting and I felt I had been introduced to some kind of virus, and to this day I still "almost" regret not shooting his car up with BB's. I am just proud like that.

So case in point. If you have a gun in your possesion, in public, when you know you shouldn't, you are just asking for trouble.

If I didn't have the gun under my seat maybe I wouldn't have been driving like I was a badass(idiot), and I wouldn't have spit in my eye.

Maybe I would have shot the guys car windows out, and got arressted from testimonies from eye witnesses. Maybe I would have accidentally killed his child in his car seat. Maybe he would have got back out of his truck and strangled me to death (big dude)

Maybe he would have driven his truck into me.

SO. Don't bring guns anywhere except to the shooting range or to a hunting zone. Im telling you from an experienced perspective.

Also, I had a younger friend a few years ago.. he was about 21. Well he started to become obsessed with handguns after his mother died.

He started bringing his gun everywhere. travelling to the city, and to the store with it in his pants. Im sure he thought he was tough and bad.

Well last I heard, he was on the run from police, I never heard from him again.

Also another story:
When I was in 8th grade I brought a brass knuckle with a dagger comming out of the top type weapon to school becuase a rumor had been going around that I was going to get my ass kicked by some kid.

Well I was showing it off to friends and stuff, becuase I was proud to have it, and thought it was awesome. It is an awesome weapon. But I brought it to school.

Well, a few classes later, a police officer shows up in the classroom...

I was lucky not to get expelled from school (kicked out of all the schools in the area)

But the principal never gave me back my weapon.
 
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