Ban the guns

[Calanen]

You could never get rid of guns in America. They are everywhere. There is no way you could get rid of them all.

In certain areas 10/10 families own guns - and they are a good shot. Me being one of them. Im a certified expert marksman. I have always loved guns since I was a child, and began using Air-guns at about 10.

I would never do something foolish with it (except that one time :O )and treat it ever-so carefully, like it is a bomb, so as no one gets hurt.

The only thing I can think of to get rid of them is to offer alot more money than they are worth for turning them in to police.

Police in Washington D.C. (i think)They have tried this before, and alot of people turned in guns anonymously for cash.

But really, this could be counter-productive. You are going to have alot of people going out to steal guns and turning in their friends dads gun, etc. to get alot of money.

EDIT: By the way, I never fear of being shot. If you are afraid of being shot, You are in the wrong place baby. Stay away...

One reason Im not scared is becuase the penalty just for possesing a loaded, concealed firearm in public is like 5 years in prison, and another year for each bullet that is loaded in the gun, and the penalty for killing cop or federal employee is death.

Also, I believe that generally, humans are loving species that does not like to kill people. There are exceptions of course.

Well you could - just would not be much fun for the politicians who decided to do it. Australia has less of a gun culture, but we had the same rural frontiersmen type background so plenty of guns around. Then they got bought by the Federal government, and melted down.

 

[VirusType2]

another thing that should help deter people from carrying concealed firearms is the amount of people with cell-phones these days.

You are a damn fool if you bring a gun out into public.

anyone even suspects you have a gun they are going to call police with a perfect description of you and your vehicle as soon as you turn your back.

Like I said it will get you 5 years in prison (long time to sit in a concrete room) and another year for each bullet.

Thats assuming you didn't pull it out, or point it at someone.. thats ALOT more time

I think the laws are good, and they work.

Sometimes people break the law that is something your going to deal with no matter where u are. If they can't get a gun they will find another weapon.

 

[Calanen]

another thing that should help deter people from carrying concealed firearms is the amount of people with cell-phones these days.

You are a damn fool if you bring a gun out into public.

anyone even suspects you have a gun they are going to call police with a perfect description of you and your vehicle as soon as you turn your back.

Like I said it will get you 5 years in prison (long time to sit in a concrete room) and another year for each bullet.

Thats assuming you didn't pull it out, or point it at someone.. thats ALOT more time

I think the laws are good, and they work.

Sometimes people break the law that is something your going to deal with no matter where u are. If they can't get a gun they will find another weapon.

Most people rarely consider the consequences or believe that they will not be apprehended when they commit crimes. As my grandfather who was a criminal lawyer used to say, 'I never met a criminal who believed he would ever be caught.' So if you embark on a career of crime, believing that you will never be caught - what does it matter what the penalty is? I think the biggest worry for a criminal in carrying a gun is the risk that the police might shoot them. Thats worse than theoretical jail time.

 

[VirusType2]

Well you could - just would not be much fun for the politicians who decided to do it. Australia has less of a gun culture, but we had the same rural frontiersmen type background so plenty of guns around. Then they got bought by the Federal government, and melted down.

True, If the government said hey. "we want to get rid of all guns, we will pay (so-and-so rediculous amount of money) if you turn them over, Most people would do it.

There are many that are die-hard and would fight it to the end.

I just don't see it ever happening in America. Im glad it worked out for you in Austrailia.

Obviously, If they did let people turn over their guns for cash, the criminals would still have them, you can bet on that.

Like I said earlier though, If you take away all the guns, the criminals will just find a different weapon, one that doesn't carry as big of a sentance, but still gets the job done, so the criminals win. -especially knowing that store clerk they rob doesn't have a shotgun under the register. :hmph:

 

[Dynasty]

i don't know where you get your info. but US has the highest murder rate, and counties without gun control have less killings,

and i will help you eat your hat, but we wouldn't have to

i say no more about the 'great american government - *cough-deliberate delay* bush *cough*

if the government thinks its ok to let people legally have firearms in their house, then wtf do they expect when a kid gets hold of one. now they're like 'omg how could this happen!!!'....i mean duh you idiots what did you expect!!!!

 

[VirusType2]

Most people rarely consider the consequences or believe that they will not be apprehended when they commit crimes. As my grandfather who was a criminal lawyer used to say, 'I never met a criminal who believed he would ever be caught.' So if you embark on a career of crime, believing that you will never be caught - what does it matter what the penalty is? I think the biggest worry for a criminal in carrying a gun is the risk that the police might shoot them. Thats worse than theoretical jail time.

I agree to a large extent. But Americas laws are effective most of the time, and are considered by the criminal. They have considered the consequenses at least at one point, before they get into this lifestyle or chose to do the deed.

Hell I'll even say yes, "once" I stole something, and I was nervous, and no I didn't think I would get caught, but I was afraid of the consequenses. I considered them. I guess if I stole something every day successfully, you are right, I would believe I wouldn't get caught.

Listen, in my lifetime, i don't recall but maybe one - if any instance of someone using an Automatic rifle to comit a crime.

The reason? They are completely illegal in America. If I remember correctly, merely Possesing an automatic weapon in America is 40 years in jail. Thats basically life.

I feel safe man. Im glad I don't live in the Middle east.

 

[VirusType2]

i say no more about the 'great american government - *cough-deliberate delay* bush *cough*

if the government thinks its ok to let people legally have firearms in their house, then wtf do they expect when a kid gets hold of one. now they're like 'omg how could this happen!!!'....i mean duh you idiots what did you expect!!!!

At 13 years old my moms friend took me to shoot his chrome plated 45 colt at the shooting range - Im not sure if I wasn't strong enough to cock it, or I wasn't doing it right, but I just let him do it. This is one deterent for handguns. Rifles and revolvers are more easy to work however.

most kids smart and strong enough to get the gun to work, are smart enough to know that they have the power to kill, and like I said earlier, humans don't like to kill humans. Its human nature.

Of course it can happen, and its tragic.

If you feel you must have a gun in the house to be safe, then u are a freakin retard if you don't keep your kids safe from your "saftey precaution" called a gun.

If you have a trigger lock: bonus
If you have a large heavy safe gun locker: bonus
If you lock the ammo seperately: bonus

If you leave a cocked, locked, ready to rock weapon in your night-stand, and have kids in the house- you are an idiot. Kids get into EVERYTHING

 

[Calanen]

I agree to a large extent. But Americas laws are effective most of the time, and are considered by the criminal. They have considered the consequenses at least at one point, before they get into this lifestyle or chose to do the deed.

Hell I'll even say yes, "once" I stole something, and I was nervous, and no I didn't think I would get caught, but I was afraid of the consequenses. I considered them. I guess if I stole something every day successfully, you are right, I would believe I wouldn't get caught.

Listen, in my lifetime, i don't recall but maybe one - if any instance of someone using an Automatic rifle to comit a crime.

The reason? They are completely illegal in America. If I remember correctly, merely Possesing an automatic weapon in America is 40 years in jail. Thats basically life.

I feel safe man. Im glad I don't live in the Middle east.

We've talked about this before, ie in its been posted in the forums. Automatic weapons in the USA, fully autos, are legal in some places. Ive posted the links before but do a google search on Class 3 Firearms, choose Ohio for example.


Here's one link I quickly found:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976128671.htm

You can buy whatever you want, including belt fed machine guns.

Automatic rifles get used in crime. Make no mistake. You would be aware of the huge shoot out at the bank in LA? Which meant that LAPD now has M4 and M16 rifles where before it did not. THose guys used AKMs with box magazines and armour piercing rounds. Very nasty. Also, the so called 'FBI murders' - where two bank robbers, ex-military, also shot up the FBI agents with assault rifles.

Assault rifles are normally not the weapon of choice though, because they cannot be easily concealed. You can still get them. Whether or not its 40 years under Federal statutes for illegally owning an Assault rifle, I do not know.

You and your conscience over petty theft are in a whole different stratosphere to the guy who has an illegal assault rifle and plans to use it in a crime.

 

[Bodacious]

piss off a guy in a bar in Texas and see how long it takes him to shut you up with his weaponpiss off a guy in a bar in Texas and see how long it takes him to shut you up with his weapon

What is funny about this statement is that it shows how is arguments is so ignorant.

It is illegal to carry a gun into a bar in Texas. Any responsible gun owner with a CCL won't take one in there. A CCL is the only legal way you can cary a gun on you. Why can't you carry it into a bar? Becaue that place make 51% if its profits on alcohol. That is one of the regulations to having a CCL. You can't even have a gun on the property of the bar, such as in your car in the parking lot. If a CCL holder were to have his car searched and a gun was found he could go to jail and have his CCL revoked.

 

[firemachine69]

Here's the dealier gun haters:

You can take an OFFENSIVE stance against criminals, incite fear in them, make THEM worry for their own personal safety. Only maniacs (which you cannot legislate insanity) or total retards would even think of doing anything. They're tough mofos, till they cry cause you're pointing a gun in their face.

Or you can a DEFENSIVE stance, and live in fear, live with that uncertainty, knowing the criminal has the upper hand. Unfortunately up here, that's the ONLY way. Even being defensive can land you in jail, occasionally (referring to my rock scenario).

That's the problem with society, we try to impose niceness on everyone, to live in harmony, but fact remains, where there are innocent people, there are those that will try and take advantage of them. Criminals do the crime, knowing there's a very good probability they might get away with it because the police response is just too slow. Unless you like to deliver half our country's money to become a police state. Which then isn't right in the first place, why should police get to carry a weapon to be used OFFENSIVELY (don't BS me, you know it, I know it, if a gunner starts shooting, you're dam well sure the officer will fire at him, even if the officer isn't receiving bullets). Why humanity gives people in a nice set of pants and shirt the only people who can carry "personal self protection" or "public protection" (aka their sidearm) is beyond me. Take the vest off, they're just like the rest of us. Even still, off-duty officers are forbidden to carry a gun. Somehow, a 9-5 in a uniform is different then a tee and khakis? But another subject entirely.

 

[firemachine69]

Auto weapon ban was lifted.

Secondly, if you go nuts, no amount of legislation or debating will ever save lives. Only the still sane people with defensive weapons are so able to.

Have your little daughter get taken away from you at knife or gun point. Criminals will always get the weapon they choose they feel is necessary to commit the crime. So what are you gonna do? May as well get killed by the kidnapper, cause good luck living knowing your baby was taken away and you could do jack shit to save her. That's another problem, people are so dam ignorant and selfish, they hear it on the news, "will never happen to me", they forget it the next day...

Till unfortunately, it does. And they feel like the biggest ****ing self-centered morons in the world.


It's not a utopian world, get over it. Read all the links I provided. Especially CCL's. People think it becomes a wild wild west shoot-out place.

No, it's quite the opposite.

 

[CptStern]

so in other words you would fire your weapon at the kidnapper who's holding your child?

 

[firemachine69]

No, he'd never get a chance to touch the child. if he's insane, he's more or less already down, but most likely, he still will have sanity (or part of it), and the lase sight on his chest will make him back the hell away ASAP.

So tell me Capt, do you have any children?

I have a baby sis, she's 9, going on 10. And she's just like my own daughter.

 

[CptStern]

yes I have a son and one on the way ...but I'm sure that's the same as having a younger sister :upstare:

if a crazy person comes up to you while you're walking your child in a stroller with a gun in his hand and says hand over your child, you're going to get into a firefight right there? who in their right mind carries a gun on them while walking with their infant?

 

[No Limit]

What is funny about this statement is that it shows how is arguments is so ignorant.

It is illegal to carry a gun into a bar in Texas. Any responsible gun owner with a CCL won't take one in there. A CCL is the only legal way you can cary a gun on you. Why can't you carry it into a bar? Becaue that place make 51% if its profits on alcohol. That is one of the regulations to having a CCL. You can't even have a gun on the property of the bar, such as in your car in the parking lot. If a CCL holder were to have his car searched and a gun was found he could go to jail and have his CCL revoked.

Exactly, it is illegal to carry a firearm in to any place that serves alcohol, at least in most places. This also extends to most public places like grocery stores.

who in their right mind carries a gun on them while walking with their infant?

I think anyone that tries to use the argument that they are protecting themselves with a gun in public never actually carries a gun in public, they just want to make a stronger argument in this debate. With all the guns in this country I am yet to see anyone outside a cop carry a gun in public (legally). Most people use guns for sport or home protection, I don't think most people ever actually use it for protection in public since like I said, this is illegal if you go in to most public places here in the states.

 

[firemachine69]

Where do you live? Concealed carry is just that, concealed carry.

I definitely would carry everywhere, if I could.

BTW, limiting the areas isn't any good.

It's when you least expect you'll need it, that you'll be reaching for it. I can nearly guarantee you an infant won't be able to take out a gun from a proper holster. You obviously lack ANY experience, so please, be quiet, you have no place nor experience on holstering. Even with my very basic and primitive holstering skills, I can tell you, it isn't easy if you're not the carrier.

 

[No Limit]

Where do you live? Concealed carry is just that, concealed carry.

I definitely would carry everywhere, if I could.

Concealed carry has a lot of regulations and most people don't do this. However, those that do demonstrate they can handle it and from statistics I've seen they rarely do anything illegal with the gun.

BTW, limiting the areas isn't any good.

It's when you least expect you'll need it, that you'll be reaching for it. I can nearly guarantee you an infant won't be able to take out a gun from a proper holster. You obviously lack ANY experience, so please, be quiet, you have no place nor experience on holstering. Even with my very basic and primitive holstering skills, I can tell you, it isn't easy if you're not the carrier.

Limiting areas is needed, you don't want some drunk idiot in a bar with a gun; I know you wouldn't want to be sitting next to them. Again, cases of attacks in public are extremely rare, people that advocate this are paranoid or simply want to make a better argument; I disagree with allowing everyone to have a gun on them at all times. If you keep your gun at your home or even in your car that is all the protection you will ever need.

 

[CptStern]

It's when you least expect you'll need it, that you'll be reaching for it. I can nearly guarantee you an infant won't be able to take out a gun from a proper holster. You obviously lack ANY experience, so please, be quiet, you have no place nor experience on holstering. Even with my very basic and primitive holstering skills, I can tell you, it isn't easy if you're not the carrier.

maybe it's because you're not a parent but you dont seem to realise how insane that statement sounds

 

[ALEXDJ]

i was just saying that i would feel very uncomfatable around a person who i know has i gun, i knew this guy and he had two guns at his place, as soon as i found out about them, i stopped coming over
guns are very stupid, guns are for the weak in mind

 

[short recoil]

i was just saying that i would feel very uncomfatable around a person who i know has i gun, i knew this guy and he had two guns at his place, as soon as i found out about them, i stopped coming over

Your own personal phobias don't really make much of an argument.
I mean someone who is scared shitless by dogs might want them banned whereas other people love their dogs and have no fear.
Did you know this guy well, because it is clear you don't trust him if you stop going round his house at all because he has 2 guns......you might have a paranoia problem.

guns are very stupid, guns are for the weak in mind

Why are guns "stupid"?
They are a tool invented by humans, designed for killing.

Guns are for the weak of mind are they?
What is weak minded about owning a gun for various purposes?
Is a soldier weak minded with a gun........should he say "oh, i'm not a coward, i'm not weak minded" and run foward with just a knife?
Or how about wanting a gun to defend your life and your family....the most fundamental instinct, of course wanting to defend your family is being weak minded isn't it?

I am definitely NOT weak of mind and yet i would have a firearm if i could, and doubt my strength of mind as much as you want.

 

[Bodacious]

Concealed carry has a lot of regulations and most people don't do this. However, those that do demonstrate they can handle it and from statistics I've seen they rarely do anything illegal with the gun.

This is correct. Most people I know keep their concealed weapon in their car and would leave it at home if they were going to a bar.

I have seen people carry in public, but I know they wouldn't be caught dead at some place where it would be illegal to carry it, like a courthouse or convenience store.

Any place can ban the posession of CCL weapons on their premesis with the right signery.

Limiting areas is needed, you don't want some drunk idiot in a bar with a gun; I know you wouldn't want to be sitting next to them. Again, cases of attacks in public are extremely rare, people that advocate this are paranoid or simply want to make a better argument; I disagree with allowing everyone to have a gun on them at all times. If you keep your gun at your home or even in your car that is all the protection you will ever need.

I agree with this as well. Another example, you don't want some vigilante in a bank opposing the bank robbers who have illegal full auto weapons. You are putting innocent lives at risk.

 

[ALEXDJ]

Your own personal phobias don't really make much of an argument.
I mean someone who is scared shitless by dogs might want them banned whereas other people love their dogs and have no fear.
Did you know this guy well, because it is clear you don't trust him if you stop going round his house at all because he has 2 guns......you might have a paranoia problem.


Why are guns "stupid"?
They are a tool invented by humans, designed for killing.

Guns are for the weak of mind are they?
What is weak minded about owning a gun for various purposes?
Is a soldier weak minded with a gun........should he say "oh, i'm not a coward, i'm not weak minded" and run foward with just a knife?
Or how about wanting a gun to defend your life and your family....the most fundamental instinct, of course wanting to defend your family is being weak minded isn't it?

I am definitely NOT weak of mind and yet i would have a firearm if i could, and doubt my strength of mind as much as you want.

ok, fine give me one good reason why you would have a gun?

who are you afraid of?

 

[Tr0n]

ok, fine give me one good reason why you would have a gun?

To shoot you.



HA!J/k...

 

[short recoil]

ok, fine give me one good reason why you would have a gun?

I can give you more than one.

1. For defense, a gun is a very effective form of defense.
2. For pleasure, i enjoy target shooting.
3. For hunting, if i was ever in the situation where i had no food i could get myself a deer easily, while i am capable of making a bow and arrow or using a spear, a gun is much easier.

And before you say "oh but you dont NEED a gun"
I could say you don't need a house, a car, a computer e.t.c.

 

[ALEXDJ]

I can give you more than one.

1. For defense, a gun is a very effective form of defense.
2. For pleasure, i enjoy target shooting.
3. For hunting, if i was ever in the situation where i had no food i could get myself a deer easily, while i am capable of making a bow and arrow or using a spear, a gun is much easier.

And before you say "oh but you dont NEED a gun"
I could say you don't need a house, a car, a computer e.t.c.

forget # 2 and 3, and tell me who do you have to defened youself against?

 

[ALEXDJ]

To shoot you.



HA!J/k...

heartless murderer :sniper:

 

[Dynasty]

god the laws here in UK are so stupid...you arent allowed to shoot a burgalar when he is running away.....lmao hes just threatened you with a knife and stolen everything you own, and you have to be like 'oh well hes running away i'll just leave him to it.....'

and it is STILL legal to shoot someone in Wales from England across the River Severn using a Longbow....

 

[short recoil]

forget # 2 and 3, and tell me who do you have to defened youself against?

Anyone who decides to attack me, if no one attacks me no one gets hurt.

And yes humans do attack you, i don't know if you have ever been smashed in the face with a cricket bat but i would certainly like to defend myself against that happening again.

And why should i forget 2 and 3?
They are as valid as you playing games on your computer (i presume you do play games)
You want a computer for playing games, i want a gun for target shooting.

 

[No Limit]

forget # 2 and 3, and tell me who do you have to defened youself against?

I don't know where you live but not everyone lives in nice suburban areas like you might. I lived in neighborhoods with crack heads digging through your trash, you better believe I felt safer with that gun around me. Also, no matter where you live, everyone is subject to a crime being committed against you. If a burglary occurs when the victim is home so many times that simple burglary turns in to a violent crime.

 

[ALEXDJ]

Anyone who decides to attack me, if no one attacks me no one gets hurt.

And yes humans do attack you, i don't know if you have ever been smashed in the face with a cricket bat but i would certainly like to defend myself against that happening again.

And why should i forget 2 and 3?
They are as valid as you playing games on your computer (i presume you do play games)
You want a computer for playing games, i want a gun for target shooting.

see that's exsactly what i was talking about, why can't you smash him back with a cricket bat, why do you wanna shoot him
i've been kicked and beat, but i kicked back, not shot back

 

[Combine Elite]

This is about that minessota shooting,
as i see it, if there were no guns, there would be no shooting

i'm from russia, and kids are alot more violent there, but nobody shoots anybody in schools because, well there are no guns, what so ever. i'm sure if there were guns available then there would be a shooting every day, but there are simply no guns around

on the other hand, in america, everybody blames video games, movies, but nobody says anything about the guns, it's just unreal to me

are the people that dumb, that they can't see a problem as clear as that?

Explain the Russian Mafia then. What do they do beat you all with a wet noodle ? Explain the civilians carrying rifles during that take over of the school by insurgents ? No guns what so ever , give your head a shake. PS - Guns dont kill people.

 

[short recoil]

see that's exsactly what i was talking about, why can't you smash him back with a cricket bat, why do you wanna shoot him
i've been kicked and beat, but i kicked back, not shot back

Well, you're not even allowed to carry a cricket bat in the UK as defense.

It is human nature to prevent injury to yourself, you will naturally choose the best way to defend yourself.

If someone attacks me, they get a bullet in their leg, if they come at me again, they get one in the head.
If they dont attack me, then there will be no violence.
It is their stupid idea to attack another, they pay the penalty.
Why should i decrease my ability to defend myself?

The way the law is going in the UK soon the option will be lay on the floor whimpering while being attacked or defend yourself and go to jail.

 

[Combine Elite]

Well, you're not even allowed to carry a cricket bat in the UK as defense.

It is human nature to prevent injury to yourself, you will naturally choose the best way to defend yourself.

If someone attacks me, they get a bullet in their leg, if they come at me again, they get one in the head.
If they dont attack me, then there will be no violence.
It is their stupid idea to attack another, they pay the penalty.
Why should i decrease my ability to defend myself?

The way the law is going in the UK soon the option will be lay on the floor whimpering while being attacked or defend yourself and go to jail.

Thats what you get for living in a country run by the likes of Thatcher and Blair and where the staple diet consists of Porridge. Sorry could not resist.

 

[ALEXDJ]

Explain the Russian Mafia then. What do they do beat you all with a wet noodle ? Explain the civilians carrying rifles during that take over of the school by insurgents ? No guns what so ever , give your head a shake. PS - Guns dont kill people.

russian mafia - gun is not going to help you agaist them
civillians carrying rifles - not really in russia, (you are not going to see anything like that in a city, maybe in some village)

guns are used in process of murder

 

[Combine Elite]

russian mafia - gun is not going to help you agaist them
civillians carrying rifles - not really in russia, (you are not going to see anything like that in a city, maybe in some village)

guns are used in process of murder

Still guns dont kill people. As for the civilians carrying weapons at the school seige. Well like up archived news reels. All there in pictures. I suppose the Russian mafia does not carry guns ? You should read before responding.

 

[CptStern]

no, I guess bullets kill people not guns :upstare:

 

[Combine Elite]

no, I guess bullets kill people not guns :upstare:

You are as ignorant as the guy who started this thread. Guns in and of themselves DO NOT kill people. People kill people. They generally do not need a gun to do so either. Guns are just more convenient. You must live in a very very nice place where life is paid for you and you are threatened by nothing save what you will wear with your pantyhose today.

 

[pentagon]

no, I guess bullets kill people not guns :upstare:

:upstare: that's like saying cars kill people not drunk drivers, of course the bullet is what causes them to die but the person shooting the gun kills them.

 

[ALEXDJ]

:upstare: that's like saying cars kill people not drunk drivers, of course the bullet is what causes them to die but the person shooting the gun kills them.

yeah but the point is if that guy didn't have a gun, he simply would not have shot anybody, simple as that, no gun = no shooting, why are you so afraid to exsept that notion

 

[short recoil]

yeah but the point is if that guy didn't have a gun, he simply would not have shot anybody, simple as that, no gun = no shooting, why are you so afraid to exsept that notion

Well if there were no cars then no one could die on the roads
There are many reasons to keep guns, probably a lot of them you have not even thought of.
If the government has all the guns and "civilians" have nothing you pave the way for a police state.
I mean look at 1939 germany, gun control was introduced and people found it hard to fight against the nazi rule (many, many people would have fought against it if they had guns)

It isn't as simple as saying "oh ban guns, because they are used to kill people"