Chinese Traditional Medicine Sucks.

[Raziaar]

Yeah, you heard me... I hate it. (EDIT: The animal butchering aspects)

I'm tired and sleepy, so this post isn't gonna make much sense, but i'm pissed off that TCM has been causing the extinction of endangered animals(EDIT: Aspects of it.). All for bogus shit like being aphrodisiacs. Yes... things like tiger penis and bones, and rhino horns, are being poached off animals to be sold as a small fortune for chinese tradition medicine.

How can you justify the killing of these great beasts, just so you may, or may not get your penis erect? Come on... its rediculous.

I mean, i'm no animal rights nut. I keep pets, I eat cows and chickens and stuff for food... but killing endangered, beautiful beasts for medicine that has a basis on superstitions? <growls>

Wikipedia has this to say about it.

TCM and Animals

As animal products are used in Chinese formulas, vegans and vegetarians should inform their practitioner, if their beliefs forbid the ingestion of animals. Often alternative substances can be used.

The use of endangered species is controversial within TCM. In particular, the belief that tiger penis and rhinoceros horn are aphrodisiacs has been blamed for depleting these species in the wild. Medicinal use is also having a major impact on the populations of sea horses.

The animal rights movement notes that a few traditional Chinese medicinal solutions use bear bile. To extract maximum amounts of the bile, the bears are often fitted with a sort of permanent catheter. The treatment itself and especially the extraction of the bile is very painful, causes damage to the intestines of the bear, and often even kills the bears. However, due to international attention on the issues surrounding its harvesting, bile is now rarely used by practitioners outside of China.

Anyways, I made this thread after spending some time watching animal planet, especially about Siberian tigers... poached for their bones.

 

[JellyWorld]

I agree.

 

[Rupertvdb]

I went to CHina for several months along and while I was out there I met a load of English students who were doing a similar thing to me -I was doing journalism with TPA- except with medicine. The stuff you are talking about is fairly marginal. The majority of chinese medicine isn't about crushing rare animals into dust, go here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_chinese_medicine to get a better idea before you knock it.

 

[Reaktor4]

+1

 

[Raziaar]

+1

What?

 

[Raziaar]

I went to CHina for several months along and while I was out there I met a load of English students who were doing a similar thing to me -I was doing journalism with TPA- except with medicine. The stuff you are talking about is fairly marginal. The majority of chinese medicine isn't about crushing rare animals into dust, go here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_chinese_medicine to get a better idea before you knock it.

Why can't I knock the aspect of it that motivates poachers to go out and illegally kill these animals, just for medicine?

It's wrong. I mean, maybe if it cured cancer or something... but even then, not wild animals... bred animals.


EDIT: oops, sorry for double post. not thinking straight.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Read the Wiki then come back to me. That is not what Chinese medicine is all about.

 

[Raziaar]

Read the Wiki then come back to me. That is not what Chinese medicine is all about.

No... its not what its all about, but animals are still dying because of it, being sold for it.

I'm bitching about that part... only defend it here, if you're trying to defend the animal killing aspect, cause thats what i'm bitching about.

 

[Rupertvdb]

Based on your join date I can tell that you must be at least 2 and a half years old. This could explain how you went from "Chinese Traditional Medicine Sucks" to "No... its not what its all about, but animals are still dying because of it, being sold for it. I'm bitching about that part" but you should have grown out of it by the third trimester.

I understand your point but sweeping generalisations make me sad. Plus I wanted to accuse you of being two and a half because it makes me chuckle.

P.s. I'm kidding for the most part because you said you were tired and this'll probably encourage you to go to bed like I should have done at 2am last night. Although I still think the title of the thread is ridiculous.

 

[Raziaar]

Based on your join date I can tell that you must be at least 2 and a half years old. This could explain how you went from "Chinese Traditional Medicine Sucks" to "No... its not what its all about, but animals are still dying because of it, being sold for it. I'm bitching about that part" but you should have grown out of it by the third trimester.

I understand your point but sweeping generalisations make me sad. Plus I wanted to accuse you of being two and a half because it makes me chuckle.

P.s. I'm kidding for the most part because you said you were tired and this'll probably encourage you to go to bed like I should have done at 2am last night. Although I still think the title of the thread is ridiculous.

<rolls his eyes> Shall I edit it for you? "Aspects of Chinese Traditional Medicine Suck"

Will that make you feel better, Or would you like to throw out some more bland insults? If you're trying to hurt me, at least go for the jugular.

<chuckles>

 

[Rupertvdb]

Dude, I just said that I wasn't trying to insult you. If you want me to lay into you for being a bigot I can, but i didn't think that was your intention and I can't really be bothered with that kind of behaviour anyways.

I just don't think it's fair of you to discount an entire civilisations medical philosophy on the basis of an aspect which, while obviously disgraceful, is only a facet of the whole.

 

[Raziaar]

Dude, I just said that I wasn't trying to insult you. If you want me to lay into you for being a bigot I can, but i didn't think that was your intention and I can't really be bothered with that kind of behaviour anyways.

I just don't think it's fair of you to discount an entire civilisations medical philosophy on the basis of an aspect which, while obviously disgraceful, is only a facet of the whole.

Using your logic, you could say anything offensive and back it up with a "Oh I wasn't being 100% serrous! haha, just joking dude", and expect to get away with it. Sometimes its really a joke, sometimes its just a poorly disguised insult. The way yours was formed, I took it to be the latter. <shrugs>

It's like saying, "No offense, but...", then tearing into the person and expecting them not to be offended.

But anyways, I don't discount an entire civilizations medical philosophy. I realize my thread title is misleading, and inaccurate... but you need to ****ing drop it, because you're making it to be a bigger deal than it is. I'm telling you now, i'm not judging the entirety of the medicine based on this deal.

Okay? Got it? Good. Now drop it... you're taking too much offense over this, when in fact its just a tired guy misspeaking. Focus on the animal killing part of the thread, not the blanket statements that you percieve i'm trying to sweep out.

 

[Sulkdodds]

No offence, but you're a c*nt.

EDIT: lol

 

[Raziaar]

No offence, but you're a c*nt.

EDIT: lol

<tears into Sulkdodds like a bag of ramen noodles>

I'm highly irate when i'm sleepy! :flame:

 

[bbson john]

I am a Chinese. Chinese Traditional Medicine is not those tiger penis, bones and rhino horns as such. Things like tiger penis involves another Philosophy: Chinese try to model themselves, and their body-parts, on some animals via eating the animals they want to model themselves on. Like if they want to get their penis strong, they eat tigers' penis. That is not Chinese Traditional Medicine as such.

Chinese Traditional Medicine most likely takes advantage of herbs, all kinds of herbs. Only a small portion of animals has been utilized. Most others are herbs. And they can truely heal a patient and greatly reduce the side-effect that we have in taking normal medicine. Chinese Traditional Medicine bases on a principle: strengthen patient's immune system, unlike western medicine philosophy which is trying to annihilate bacteria or virus within our bodies. The side-effect of western medicine is that it damages not only the bacteria, but the patient also. Since then, Chinese medicine is better, even though it is not as effective as the Western one.

 

[CptStern]

the spring bear hunt in canada brings a lot of hunters looking to make a quick buck. They have no qualms about killing young, mothers with cubs or endangered species just so they can harvest organs for overseas markets

 

[Raziaar]

the spring bear hunt in canada brings a lot of hunters looking to make a quick buck. They have no qualms about killing young, mothers with cubs or endangered species just so they can harvest organs for overseas markets

Yeah, its disgusting... these poachers. :frown:

 

[Que-Ever]

 

[bbson john]

So many misconception in this threat..

 

[Teta_Bonita]

+1

to what? your postcount?

Anybody who posts something that does not contribute to the topic should be crushed by a giant testicle.

EDIT: oh shit D:

 

[ailevation]

to what? your postcount?

Anybody who posts something that does not contribute to the topic should be crushed by a giant testicle.

EDIT: oh shit D:

I think by "+1" he means he agrees with somebodies statement.1

 

[ríomhaire]

What fool would use CTM when we have drugs!

Drungs drungs drungs drungs. Lovely drungs! Wonderful drungs! Drungs dru-u-u-u-u-gs drungs dru-u-u-u-u-gs drungs. Lovely drungs! Lovely drungs! Lovely drungs! Lovely drungs! Lovely drungs! Drungs drungs drungs drungs!

 

[Reaktor4]

I was agreeing that stuff like killing animals for their dicks is bad.

 

[bbson john]

What fool would use CTM when we have drugs!

I was agreeing that stuff like killing animals for their dicks is bad.

You guys didn't read my post, did you?
:bounce:

 

[Raziaar]

You guys didn't read my post, did you?
:bounce:

So... what, you're shrugging off the bad part of TCM, simply because the rest may be good?

We're talking about furthering the extinction of endangered, great animals here.

And its not just a rare thing... they're out there acquiring these 'ingredients', all the time.

 

[The Mullinator]

Personally I am also extremelly pissed off by the fact that throughout Chinese history people have been grinding bones and remains from ancient humans. Neanderthal, Homo erectus, early Homo sapian... So much valuable information has been lost by these weird "medicinal" and aphrodesiac creations.

Ancient Chinesed doing this I don't really care about since obviously they simply did not know any better. However when people today do indeed know what these things really are and yet still find and destroy them for a quick buck it just angers me.

 

[Greatgat]

Hey, has anybody read a book 'Earth' by David Brin? It's about conservation (Admittedly set in a rather sci fi setting) and one of the chapters deals with harvesting of endangered animals for just such a thing. Awesome book, if you haven't checked it out you should.

 

[Adabiviak]

I'm not down for any uses of animals that threaten their very existence. I never used "TCM", but I did change my sushi consumption habits. The fact that TCM is apparently based on superstition/religion makes it even worse.

 

[NotATool]

Raziaar:

1. stop being so easily offended.
2. Saying "Traditional Chinese Medecine Sucks" because some people are idiotic enough to cut off tiger penis is like saying "Sex Sucks" because someone got sexually abused and you saw it in the news.

 

[Raziaar]

Raziaar:

1. stop being so easily offended.
2. Saying "Traditional Chinese Medecine Sucks" because some people are idiotic enough to cut off tiger penis is like saying "Sex Sucks" because someone got sexually abused and you saw it in the news.

Offended? What do you mean stop being so easily offended? Is the well being of our world's endangered species something to not get riled up about?

These people aren't idiotic by doing that... they're making an illegal profit. A huge profit at that. And dear ****ing god, read the god damn thread, about the parts how i'm not bashing the entirety of chinese tradition medicine.

Geez.

 

[NotATool]

I was reffering to your reaction to rupert's joke.

And I read the whole thread, what you're saying is besides the point. I think what you meant to say is: people cutting off tiger penises suck. If you're only hating on one aspect, then why not only specifically refer to that aspect?

EDIT: By that I mean, why even say "I hate that aspect of chinese medicine" and say "I hate poachers" then mention chinese medicine poachers if that was your intention.

 

[Raziaar]

I was reffering to your reaction to rupert's joke.

And I read the whole thread, what you're saying is besides the point. I think what you meant to say is: people cutting off tiger penises suck. If you're only hating on one aspect, then why not only specifically refer to that aspect?

EDIT: By that I mean, why even say "I hate that aspect of chinese medicine" and say "I hate poachers" then mention chinese medicine poachers if that was your intention.

Because when I made this thread, it was like 7 or something in the morning, and I hadn't gone to sleep.

And rupert's joke... I dunno. Didn't sound like a joke to me. You know why? Because it was the exact same thing he was saying in the thread already. Only more intense. He was obviously just trying to cover up an insult. Not to mention the whole 'i'm kidding for the most part'.

I'm not offended by his joke, anyways... i'm just reacting to the stupidity of it being called a joke <chuckles>

 

[NotATool]

Okay.

Seemed light-hearted to me.

 

[Raziaar]

Okay.

Seemed light-hearted to me.

Maybe it was. honestly I could say I thought it was intended to be malicious. Sort of a "You're a child, and an idiot".

But that stuff doesn't really phase me.

 

[bbson john]

CTM does not use endangered animals as a sucken ingredient!!!!!! It is two entirely differenct cultures between the CTM and Chinese stupid superstition!!! CTM doesn't take endangered animals, Chinese superstition does. CTM uses herbs, common herbs, not endangered herbs. HERBBBBBB! Stop being so ignorant!!!!!! Stop using your ass to think. If CTM uses endangered animals as ingredients, would Chinese Government still allow it? No. CTM doesn't offend the environment but you ignorant guys keep offending CTM and our entire Chinese culture. YOU SUCK!!!

If you keep on saying CTM sucks. I would say western medicine sucks since evil witches take babies as an ingredient.

 

[Raziaar]

CTM does not use endangered animals as a sucken ingredient!!!!!! It is two entirely differenct cultures between the CTM and Chinese stupid superstition!!! CTM doesn't take endangered animals, Chinese superstition does. CTM uses herbs, common herbs, not endangered herbs. HERBBBBBB! Stop being so ignorant!!!!!! Stop using your ass to think. If CTM uses endangered animals as ingredients, would Chinese Government still allow it? No. CTM doesn't offend the environment but you ignorant guys keep offending CTM and our entire Chinese culture. YOU SUCK!!!

If you keep on saying CTM sucks. I would say western medicine sucks since evil witches take babies as an ingredient.

You better update the internets then, because it all says that the animal portion is a part of traditional chinese medicine. The same as the ginsing and the other roots, herbs, etc... crushed and used for aphrodisiacs.

Fix the internet's obvious misinformation. And all sorts of books, for that matter too.

 

[bbson john]

You better update the internets then, because it all says that the animal portion is a part of traditional chinese medicine. The same as the ginsing and the other roots, herbs, etc... crushed and used for aphrodisiacs.

Fix the internet's obvious misinformation. And all sorts of books, for that matter too.

Yes, CTM takes Animals, but not the endangered one. I am a Chinese.

it all says

Who said that? Who? Ignorant foreigners? Western people're knowing more than Chinese? I thought not, unless you are an expert of it.

 

[Raziaar]

Yes, CTM takes Animals, but not the endangered one. I am a Chinese.


Who said that? Who? Ignorant foreigners? Western people're knowing more than Chinese? I thought not, unless you are an expect of it.

Dude... all i'm going upon here are cold hard facts. Documentation and such.

What, just cause you're chinese you know everything about it?

I'm American, and I don't know all the stuff about my country and its history. And we're much younger, too... so it should naturally be easier for me to know all of it.

 

[bbson john]

Dude... all i'm going upon here are cold hard facts. Documentation and such.

What, just cause you're chinese you know everything about it?

I'm American, and I don't know all the stuff about my country and its history. And we're much younger, too... so it should naturally be easier for me to know all of it.

Okay, I take a step backwards. The old CTM really takes tiger's penis. That is not good. But nowadays, CTM has excluded it, associated with others which take endangered animals. CTM is more scientific and practical now. Eating penis still appears in China as an act of superstition.

 

[Raziaar]

Okay, I take a step backwards. The old CTM really takes tiger's penis. That is not good. But nowadays, CTM has excluded it, associated with others which take endangered animals. CTM is more scientific and practical now. Eating penis still appears in China as an act of superstition.

Penis, horn, bones... and other parts of rare and exotic animals. The fact remains, it still exists... its still happening, and certain species of animals are in danger of being wiped out because of it. The poachers are not the only one to blame, because they kill the animals, as there is a market for the components.