Do you believe in an "afterlife"?

[Shift]

yeah i do, i mean yeah you can say that biologically its impossible, but use your imagination for once, i cannot say at all what actually does happen, but something happens, and something isn't you body rotting into the ground while your very existance ceases to be lol, the human mind and soul far too complex to just cease to be once the body is dead, although like people have said, no one will know until they are dead, so live your life to its fullest just in case, and leave your make in this existance.

Oh and people on here calling others gullable etc, stfu, everyone's is entitled to their beliefs and many seek comfort in their religion, your just being incredibly ignorant.

 

[Gargantou]

Oh and people on here calling others gullable etc, stfu, everyone's is entitled to their beliefs and many seek comfort in their religion, your just being incredibly ignorant.

I agree with you, but sadly this is internet, where it's so easy to sit protected by your computer screen and be an ass about other peoples beliefs.

 

[Krynn72]

Most would do it to your face also.

 

[repiV]

Claiming with authority that there is no afterlife is just as ignorant and blind a belief as claiming that there definitely is one.

 

[Seagull]

i probably wont worry about the afterlife until i'm about to die, and if I die really fast, well, that sucks

 

[Solaris]

Claiming with authority that there is no afterlife is just as ignorant and blind a belief as claiming that there definitely is one.

Not at all, there's good reasoning for 'when you die you die'.

 

[repiV]

Not at all, there's good reasoning for 'when you die you die'.

All the good reasoning in the world is completely irrelevant because we cannot possibly make any kind of informed judgement on what happens after we die. It is beyond our realm of understanding.

 

[Shift]

Exactly, that is why this is only opinions, when people start bringing in biological 'facts' to say that when we die, we die, its make me laugh because they haven't a clue, and nor do I, no one does until they actually die. We might as well just live this life at the moment, and see what happens when we finally bite the bullet.

But dont go bringing science into this because science explores facts, and there are no facts in existance that explains what happens after someone dies, only opinions.

 

[Terminator]

All the good reasoning in the world is completely irrelevant because we cannot possibly make any kind of informed judgement on what happens after we die. It is beyond our realm of understanding.

If we cannot make a judgement on what happens to us when we die then we can make a judgement on nothing, you look at the facts and you make your judgement.
We can observe other people dying, you can seal a dying person in a lead box there will be no physical particles, electrons, photons or any other element of science we know about 'leaking' from the box.

Their mind certainly would not keep 'thinking' after it breaks down.

So the idea of an afterlife is just a blind faith idea, based on what we can observe, ok so we might all be in a massive matrix style situation but then again anything is possible and you may as well say 'lets not bother coming to a decision because it could just be wrong' and we would have got no where.
Most science has 'worked' and helped us in some way, people observing effects in nature and eventually applying it to technology to help us with our lives, it has usually been RELIGION that tries to hold such tecnology back stating it is ungodly or whatever

You cannot make a 100% true statement about anything but it makess sense to believe in what actually works, instead of spending money building religious buildings and wasting time on services which only give people a (false) sense of security.

 

[repiV]

If we cannot make a judgement on what happens to us when we die then we can make a judgement on nothing, you look at the facts and you make your judgement.
We can observe other people dying, you can seal a dying person in a lead box there will be no physical particles, electrons, photons or any other element of science we know about 'leaking' from the box.

Their mind certainly would not keep 'thinking' after it breaks down.

So the idea of an afterlife is just a blind faith idea, based on what we can observe, ok so we might all be in a massive matrix style situation but then again anything is possible and you may as well say 'lets not bother coming to a decision because it could just be wrong' and we would have got no where.
Most science has 'worked' and helped us in some way, people observing effects in nature and eventually applying it to technology to help us with our lives, it has usually been RELIGION that tries to hold such tecnology back stating it is ungodly or whatever

You cannot make a 100% true statement about anything but it makess sense to believe in what actually works, instead of spending money building religious buildings and wasting time on services which only give people a (false) sense of security.

It's less of a blind faith idea than the claim that there is quite obviously just nothingness after we die, oweing to the mountain of evidence for near death and out of body experiences.

 

[Terminator]

It's less of a blind faith idea than the claim that there is quite obviously just nothingness after we die, oweing to the mountain of evidence for near death and out of body experiences.

I've had an OBE when i was younger, i also had a delirius fever at the time.
The human brain is an increadibly complex, sensitive instrument, easily capable of creating experiences (dreams) information is taken in all the time from all manner of sources, possibly picking up information most consider trivial and or very subtle, it is no suprise that out of body experiences occur.....i have dreams where i have been shot, it dosn't mean i have actually been shot.

 

[repiV]

I've had an OBE when i was younger, i also had a delirius fever at the time.
The human brain is an increadibly complex, sensitive instrument, easily capable of creating experiences (dreams) information is taken in all the time from all manner of sources, possibly picking up information most consider trivial and or very subtle, it is no suprise that out of body experiences occur.....i have dreams where i have been shot, it dosn't mean i have actually been shot.

You could write a goddamn essay on the subject, it wouldn't make your point any more valid. You cannot tell me that nothing happens after we die. Until our scientific understanding of the world is substantially improved, you will never be able to. Your opinion on the subject, like everyone else's, is worthless. It's as simple as that.

 

[Shift]

You could write a goddamn essay on the subject, it wouldn't make your point any more valid. You cannot tell me that nothing happens after we die. Until our scientific understanding of the world is substantially improved, you will never be able to. It's as simple as that.

Agree 100%

 

[Cole]

Logically when we die, nothing should happen. We are the sum of a bunch of atoms reacting. We are no different than a rock, but with different atoms and more atoms. Just because you want there to be something more does not mean there is. You should follow your emotions, but do not let your emotions blind you from logic.

 

[Absinthe]

No.

I was nothing before I was born, I will be nothing after I die.

 

[repiV]

Logically when we die, nothing should happen. We are the sum of a bunch of atoms reacting. We are no different than a rock, but with different atoms and more atoms. Just because you want there to be something more does not mean there is. You should follow your emotions, but do not let your emotions blind you from logic.

Stop making assumptions and passing them off as "logic".
When we manage to create a living, breathing, conscious human being out of pure DNA, perhaps then your claims may have some basis.
It's entirely possible that the brain merely receives and channels consciousness, rather than being a creator of it.

 

[Solaris]

You could write a goddamn essay on the subject, it wouldn't make your point any more valid. You cannot tell me that nothing happens after we die. Until our scientific understanding of the world is substantially improved, you will never be able to. Your opinion on the subject, like everyone else's, is worthless. It's as simple as that.

Not at all.

Science tells us that the Mind and the brain are the same thing, if we accept that, then we must accept that our consciousness is in some respects an illusion, our brain is just billions of little chain reactions occurring, like a ball rolling down a hill, when the ball stops rolling, it stops, our illusion of consciousness ends.

Just as we accept when we turn off our computer windows stops running, the same thing happens when we turn off our brain, the mind stops.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some evidence that the mind is independent from the brain but right now we have to work with what evidence we have and that leads us to when you die you die.

 

[Terminator]

You could write a goddamn essay on the subject, it wouldn't make your point any more valid. You cannot tell me that nothing happens after we die. Until our scientific understanding of the world is substantially improved, you will never be able to. Your opinion on the subject, like everyone else's, is worthless. It's as simple as that.

Ok, i see your point but to take that point you should also agree that nothing can be proven, our concsiousness is the only thing that is analysing the environment we are in and thus could be completely fooled.

That is why i say, as far as my mind can see, i expect there to be no afterlife.

 

[Absinthe]

Nobody can give an objective, accurate evaluation of what takes place when we die. True.

That said, the absolute dissolution of personal existence is the only viable option in light of our understanding of the world and ourselves currently.

 

[Naudian]

Ok, i see your point but to take that point you should also agree that nothing can be proven, our concsiousness is the only thing that is analysing the environment we are in and thus could be completely fooled.

That is why i say, as far as my mind can see, i expect there to be no afterlife.

Now let us stfu and leave it at this.

ooh and this:

Nobody can give an objective, accurate evaluation of what takes place when we die. True.

That said, the absolute dissolution of personal existence is the only viable option in light of our understanding of the world and ourselves currently.

 

[repiV]

Not at all.

Science tells us that the Mind and the brain are the same thing, if we accept that, then we must accept that our consciousness is in some respects an illusion, our brain is just billions of little chain reactions occurring, like a ball rolling down a hill, when the ball stops rolling, it stops, our illusion of consciousness ends.

Just as we accept when we turn off our computer windows stops running, the same thing happens when we turn off our brain, the mind stops.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some evidence that the mind is independent from the brain but right now we have to work with what evidence we have and that leads us to when you die you die.

We know next to nothing about the brain, let alone consciousness. There is no evidence to suggest that when you die, you die - I agree it would seem to make the most sense, but there is so much we do not understand and cannot comprehend, facts we must be missing. Claiming that nothing happens after we die is akin to claiming that the world is flat a thousand years ago - all the evidence suggested it, but they were still ignorant.
Plus, there are too many credible cases of people remembering past lives (like the woman who remembered dying on the Titanic decades ago and met up with her "children", older than her, who now accept her as their mother), OOB experiences (like the woman who was 'hovering' above the operating theatre and could describe everything that happened in detail, verified by the surgeons) and near death experiences (which are usually very similar to each other in nature) to rule them out.

 

[repiV]

Ok, i see your point but to take that point you should also agree that nothing can be proven, our concsiousness is the only thing that is analysing the environment we are in and thus could be completely fooled.

That is why i say, as far as my mind can see, i expect there to be no afterlife.

Yes, that makes sense.

 

[Cole]

Stop making assumptions and passing them off as "logic".
When we manage to create a living, breathing, conscious human being out of pure DNA, perhaps then your claims may have some basis.
It's entirely possible that the brain merely receives and channels consciousness, rather than being a creator of it.

I am not talking about Human Biology. I am talking about atoms and atom reactions. I am talking lower than DNA.

Everything you are thinking is a set of atomic reactions. You do not have control over them because you are them. You don't have control over your what are you are going to do next. There are an unimaginable atoms in our Universe. We are made up of these atoms. Our actions(thoughts to) are based on how these atoms react. I don't know if you can see where I am going with this, but I hope so.


repiV if you are going out to claim that Solaris is wrong about the brain then you are just being ignorant. You may say "there is so much about the brain we do not understand", however what we don't understand is not that. We understand that. What we don't understand is how it works on a different plane than atoms.

 

[repiV]

I am not talking about Human Biology. I am talking about atoms and atom reactions. I am talking lower than DNA.

Everything you are thinking is a set of atomic reactions. You do not have control over them because you are them. You don't have control over your what are you are going to do next. There are an unimaginable atoms in our Universe. We are made up of these atoms. Our actions(thoughts to) are based on how these atoms react. I don't know if you can see where I am going with this, but I hope so.

If that's the case, what's the point in even living? What purpose does consciousness even serve, if we're only along for the ride?

repiV if you are going out to claim that Solaris is wrong about the brain then I you are just being ignorant. You may say "there is so much about the brain we do not understand", however what we don't understand is not that. We understand that. What we don't understand is how it works on a different plane than atoms.

We don't understand the brain on anything more than a rudimentary level. The vast majority of neurological disorders remain unexplained and uncurable. Like 99% of people with the same condition, the cause of my epilepsy is a total mystery.
We certainly don't understand consciousness. We don't know what it is, why it happens, or what causes it. If it's nothing more than "a bunch of atoms", why haven't we managed to create consciousness yet? It should be as easy as designing a microprocessor.
To make such wild assumptions about something we know absolutely nothing about and pass them off as fact is the definition of ignorance.

 

[Terminator]

If that's the case, what's the point in even living? What purpose does consciousness even serve, if we're only along for the ride?

That thought is the reason why people want to believe in something bigger or an afterlife.
In my view, there is no point in life we have as much point as a volcano.
Consciousness, is a 'symptom' of having an advanced brain.

 

[Cole]

If that's the case, what's the point in even living? What purpose does consciousness even serve, if we're only along for the ride?

Who ever said there was a point? Life is an illusion. I personally find comfort in the thought. I can't control how I act or what I am about to do next...and in this I find comfort when it comes to taking risks.

 

[Naudian]

I said stfu :frown:

 

[repiV]

That thought is the reason why people want to believe in something bigger or an afterlife.
In my view, there is no point in life we have as much point as a volcano.
Consciousness, is a 'symptom' of having an advanced brain.

Who ever said there was a point? Life is an illusion. I personally find comfort in the thought. I can't control how I act or what I am about to do next...and in this I find comfort when it comes to taking risks.

And that's your opinion/pseudo-religion. It certainly isn't fact. Stop pretending it is.

 

[Terminator]

We certainly don't understand consciousness. We don't know what it is, why it happens, or what causes it. If it's nothing more than "a bunch of atoms", why haven't we managed to create consciousness yet? It should be as easy as designing a microprocessor.
.

Since when has a microprocessor been anywhere near as advanced as a biological brain, i believe we could create consciousness if we had the capability to create something as advanced as a human brain, which sadly we don't

And that's your opinion/pseudo-religion. It certainly isn't fact. Stop pretending it is.

And anything, anyone of us says here is too but it's stimulating arguing about this subject.

 

[repiV]

Since when has a microprocessor been anywhere near as advanced as a biological brain, i believe we could create consciousness if we had the capability to create something as advanced as a human brain, which sadly we don't

And on that day we do create consciousness, you may have a point.
Until then, all you're doing is making assumptions.

 

[Cole]

We don't understand the brain on anything more than a rudimentary level. The vast majority of neurological disorders remain unexplained and uncurable. Like 99% of people with the same condition, the cause of my epilepsy is a total mystery.
We certainly don't understand consciousness. We don't know what it is, why it happens, or what causes it. If it's nothing more than "a bunch of atoms", why haven't we managed to create consciousness yet? It should be as easy as designing a microprocessor.
To make such wild assumptions about something we know absolutely nothing about and pass them off as fact is the definition of ignorance.

The brain is a bunch of atoms, just like the rest of matter. What we do not understand is on a different plane then atoms.

The brain is made up of more atoms than you can possible imagine. Consciousness comes from the structure of atoms. It is not like designing a micro processer. We have like what 210 million transistors on an incredibly high level micro processor? Well how about all the atoms in a spoonfull of water? It's greater than a trillion by many many zeros. Water is just 3 atoms polar bonded.

 

[Solaris]

We know next to nothing about the brain, let alone consciousness. There is no evidence to suggest that when you die, you die - I agree it would seem to make the most sense, but there is so much we do not understand and cannot comprehend, facts we must be missing. Claiming that nothing happens after we die is akin to claiming that the world is flat a thousand years ago - all the evidence suggested it, but they were still ignorant.
Plus, there are too many credible cases of people remembering past lives (like the woman who remembered dying on the Titanic decades ago and met up with her "children", older than her, who now accept her as their mother), OOB experiences (like the woman who was 'hovering' above the operating theatre and could describe everything that happened in detail, verified by the surgeons) and near death experiences (which are usually very similar to each other in nature) to rule them out.

They can all easily be explained, first Urban Legend, hypnotic suggestion, something like that. Second, it'l likely that when your unconscious some part of your brain can still hear and people dream about whats happening. And NDE's are easily scientifically explained, a quick google will find some decent explanations by people far more qualified than I.

 

[Terminator]

And on that day we do create consciousness, you may have a point.
Until then, all you're doing is making assumptions.

According to the logic of assumptions even if we did create consciousness, we would not be able to prove it was conscious, the same applies for us.

 

[repiV]

The brain is a bunch of atoms, just like the rest of matter. What we do not understand is on a different plane then atoms.

The brain is made up of more atoms than you can possible imagine. Consciousness comes from the structure of atoms. It is not like designing a micro processer. We have like what 210 million transistors on an incredibly high level micro processor? Well how about all the atoms in a spoonfull of water? It's greater than a trillion by many many zeros. Water is just 3 atoms polar bonded.

Absolute bloody nonsense.
"Look, a brain has more atoms in it than you can possibly imagine, obviously this is why we have consciousness!"
Your house has a lot more atoms in it than your brain, but oddly enough it doesn't have a mind of its own.

 

[Cole]

And that's your opinion/pseudo-religion. It certainly isn't fact. Stop pretending it is.

So your saying my brain is not completely made up of atoms? That there is something else? I'm sorry but you are messing with macro with micro. You are saying that because we don't have the complete understanding of something at the macro level, we must be completely wrong on the micro level. That is wrong, damn wrong. Just because I could give you 500 billion bricks and let you build a house doesn't mean I would know how to build that house. Same concept. I may know what atoms build up the brain, but that doesn't mean I know how to build a brain.

 

[Cole]

Absolute bloody nonsense.
"Look, a brain has more atoms in it than you can possibly imagine, obviously this is why we have consciousness!"
Your house has a lot more atoms in it than your brain, but oddly enough it doesn't have a mind of its own.

I said structure of atoms to... Structure determines function.

 

[repiV]

They can all easily be explained, first Urban Legend, hypnotic suggestion, something like that. Second, it'l likely that when your unconscious some part of your brain can still hear and people dream about whats happening. And NDE's are easily scientifically explained, a quick google will find some decent explanations by people far more qualified than I.

Those explanations are still based on assumption. So are yours.
"Some part of your brain can still hear and people dream about it" is a horrendously poor explanation for someone physically observing themselves being operated on from overhead, also.

According to the logic of assumptions even if we did create consciousness, we would not be able to prove it was conscious, the same applies for us.

This is true. Which actually just proves my point further.

 

[Absinthe]

Near-death experiences are a crock IMO.

 

[repiV]

So your saying my brain is not completely made up of atoms? That there is something else? I'm sorry but you are messing with macro with micro. You are saying that because we don't have the complete understanding of something at the macro level, we must be completely wrong on the micro level. That is wrong, damn wrong. Just because I could give you 500 billion bricks and let you build a house doesn't mean I would know how to build that house. Same concept.

Nanotechnology involves the breaking down of items into their atomic components, and the rebuilding of completely new items via atomic structure.
If you're right, we should expect to be able to create consciousness by the end of the century.
Until then, stop making kooky assumptions and claiming they're rational.

 

[repiV]

Near-death experiences are a crock IMO.

Maybe so. The key point, however, is that that is your opinion and not a fact.