Do you believe in an "afterlife"?

[Cole]

Nanotechnology involves the breaking down of items into their atomic components, and the rebuilding of completely new items via atomic structure.
If you're right, we should expect to be able to create consciousness by the end of the century.
Until then, stop making kooky assumptions and claiming they're rational.

You are basically saying that we know nothing about matter. In that case, I cannot debate with someone who refuses to believe in what science has shown to be true.

 

[repiV]

You are basically saying that we know nothing about matter. In that case, I cannot debate with someone who refuses to believe in what science has shown.

I'm "basically saying" that we know nothing about consciousness or intelligent life.
You sit there and say that not only does consciousness end when our heart stops beating, but also that we have no free will and claim these are scientific facts.
I'm not even vouching for one camp or another, I'm simply pointing out the claims you're making are invalid and based on assumption. It's not a debate.
Your argument is based off faith, no more.

 

[Absinthe]

But of course.

However, using examples of near-death experiences as some kind of possible evidence for an afterlife is specious. You're just invoking an unknown, untested, theoretical construct to explain things that fields such as biology or psychology already have. Perhaps science's explanations may be lacking and insufficient in some areas, but they still offer more substance and meaning than the concept of an afterlife does.

 

[repiV]

But of course.

However, using examples of near-death experiences as some kind of possible evidence for an afterlife is specious. You're just invoking an unknown, untested, theoretical construct to explain things that fields such as biology or psychology already have. Perhaps science's explanations may be lacking and insufficient in some areas, but they still offer more substance and meaning than the concept of an afterlife does.

I am aware of this. I'm not claiming there is an afterlife, though. I'm pointing out that it is a possibility. I don't need bulletproof evidence to do that.

 

[Cole]

I'm "basically saying" that we know nothing about consciousness or intelligent life.
You sit there and say that not only does consciousness end when our heart stops beating, but also that we have no free will and claim these are scientific facts.
I'm not even vouching for one camp or another, I'm simply pointing out the claims you're making are invalid and based on assumption. It's not a debate.
Your argument is based off faith, no more.

You are still talking at a Macro level my friend. Everything you say always comes on to a Macro level. I am talking on a very strict micro level. You cannot say something is wrong on the Micro level because you don't yet understand something on the Macro level. Think of this as two planes in geometry. These planes are parallel with eachother. I am talking about this plane, but then you come over and say "no thats wrong because we don't know about this on the other plane", when what I am talking about has nothing to do with the other plane.

I have given facts. If you do not understand atomic reactions then go read up on them. I am not talkin about DNA, or consciousness. I am talking about atoms. Nothing more. Everything I said comes from the basic principles that we know of atoms. You just keep saying "assumption", thus everything we know of atoms is now an assumption and I can't argue because thats called being ignorant.

 

[repiV]

You are still talking at a Macro level my friend. Everything you say always comes on to a Macro level.
Think of this as two planes in geometry. These planes are parallel with eachother. I am talking about this plane, but then you come over and say "no thats wrong because we don't know about this on the other plane", when what I am talking about has nothing to do with the other plane.

I have given facts. If you do not understand atomic reactions then go read up on them. I am not talkin about DNA, or consciousness. I am talking about atoms. Nothing more. Everything I said comes from the basic principles that we know of atoms. You just keep saying "assumption", thus everything we know of atoms is now an assumption and I can't argue because thats called being ignorant.

You're just rambling.

 

[Solaris]

An interesting idea:

How do we recognize consciousness?

I mean, I'm not even sure if Repriv is conscious, or anyone else, never mind a computer.

 

[repiV]

An interesting idea:

How do we recognize consciousness?

I mean, I'm not even sure if Repriv is conscious, or anyone else, never mind a computer.

Ah, the headache questions. One of my favourites is, what is eyesight?

You can see, and you know how to interpret that data, and you know the scientific explanation for how sight functions, but goddamn, you just can't explain it at all. It just "is".

 

[Terminator]

Ha, these discussions always end up going the same way.

 

[repiV]

Ha, these discussions always end up going the same way.

It actually has the potential to be a very interesting discussion, if people will just admit that their opinions are not facts.

 

[Kula Meenur]

Oh WOO I LOVE ThIS THREAD!!!


solaris prooves a good point lol :cheese:

 

[Doppelgofer]

i reckon that when we die, we wake up bound to a rusty chain linked fence with a puppy dog golden retriever taking a slash on our face for an eternity

 

[Shift]

lol you lengthy argument was incredibly entertaining, but when it comes to something as distant as life after death, i was convined ages ago that something happens once the physical presence dies, i believe the human as a whole is a brilliant evolutionary creation, and that we simply cannot just be made up of atoms and DNA etc etc, that we do contain a hidden presence that is everything that we are, and the brain is what is controls that in our physical selves. But yeah im just usingmy imagination, and yeah i do Biology at A-Level, did a module on the brain, know that it needs blood and oxygen to survive obviously, but i just cannot see something as complex as a human personality die away when the physical presence dies, i believe we do have a soul, but thats just my belief.

Oh, and can grasp comfort in saying that when you die, you cease to be, you very consciousness dead, blackness, i aint afraid of anything, but my god, that freaks me out, anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check imo.

 

[Solaris]

Darwin's theory of evolution has massive impacts on this field. We cannot have a soul, if we evolved, think about it.

 

[Muffin Man]

Do I personally believe in an after-life? I'd like to.

 

[Solaris]

I'd like to believe I was rich.

 

[Shift]

Its the weekend, i cba to think lol.

Well my last thought on this is that, the world, past and present, is full of phenomenum that occurs (or did occur) that experts simply cannot explain, like people being dead for 20 minutes and were unable to revive, then all of a sudden spur to life, mediums who seem to know everything about you, past and present, and tell you things about your life that you have never told anyone, past life experiances, deja vu, people involved in outragous circumstances but come out of it fine, the statues of angels in Lordes in France crying blood (seen by thousands of witnesses) which were analysed fully by experts afterwards and deemed it not fake and could not explain how it happened, etc etc.

I was convinced that there is something more to this life when my parents went a saw a medium after my brother died, my dad was probably the world biggest beleiver in there being nothing after death until he saw that medium, he told them everything about me when there was no way he could have known, oh and apparantly, i will become 'well known or famous' in his words lol, although thats irelevant.

 

[Solaris]

Its the weekend, i cba to think lol.

Well my last thought on this is that, the world, past and present, is full of phenomenum that occurs (or did occur) that experts simply cannot explain, like people being dead for 20 minutes and were unable to revive, then all of a sudden spur to life, mediums who seem to know everything about you, past and present, and tell you things about your life that you have never told anyone, past life experiances, deja vu, people involved in outragous circumstances but come out of it fine, the statues of angels in Lordes in France crying blood (seen by thousands of witnesses) which were analysed fully by experts afterwards and deemed it not fake and could not explain how it happened, etc etc.

I was convinced that there is something more to this life when my parents went a saw a medium after my brother died, my dad was probably the world biggest beleiver in there being nothing after death until he saw that medium, he told them everything about me when there was no way he could have known, oh and apparantly, i will become 'well known or famous' in his words lol, although thats irelevant.

All easily debunked.

 

[repiV]

All easily debunked.

Hey, don't leave us hangin'. Debunk it already.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'd like to believe I was rich.

Rich? You imperial, murdering capitalist.


Is there an afterlife? No one can say for certain. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Solaris]

Hey, don't leave us hangin'. Debunk it already.

It's all here.

And he never provided a proper argument for these things, just a few anecdotal cases which as they are the sole evidence make his argument logically fallacious.

I know many people are duped by Mediums and what not, but it's just psychology, none of them have ever passed a decent Scientific study. James Randi offers a million dollars to anyone who can, no-one has.

 

[repiV]

It's all here.

And he never provided a proper argument for these things, just a few anecdotal cases which as they are the sole evidence make his argument logically fallacious.

I know many people are duped by Mediums and what not, but it's just psychology, none of them have ever passed a decent Scientific study. James Randi offers a million dollars to anyone who can, no-one has.

It's ok, I was just mildly amused by your lone "all easily debunked" statement.
The same could be said about your questionable socio-economic theories, mind...

 

[Solaris]

It's ok, I was just mildly amused by your lone "all easily debunked" statement.
The same could be said about your questionable socio-economic theories, mind...

Karl Marx is regarded as one of the greatest thinkers of Mankind by many people.

Perhaps communism is flawed, but not easily debunked.

 

[Shift]

Hey, don't leave us hangin'. Debunk it already.

good call

 

[repiV]

Karl Marx is regarded as one of the greatest thinkers of Mankind by many people.

So is Eminem.

Perhaps communism is flawed, but not easily debunked.

It's never worked, never will work, and brings incalculable mediocrity, oppression, suffering and misery wherever it goes. The course of history has well and truly debunked communism.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

If that's the case, what's the point in even living? What purpose does consciousness even serve, if we're only along for the ride?

There is NO purpose to our exsitence, wwe exist simply because we do, because we have no choice (unless we kill ourlsevles). Why do stars exist? Why does the universe exist? It doesn't have a choice, it just exists, for no reason at all. The only purpose of our life is one we chose to make for ourselves.

 

[repiV]

There is NO purpose to our exsitence, wwe exist simply because we do, because we have no choice (unless we kill ourlsevles). Why do stars exist? Why does the universe exist? It doesn't have a choice, it just exists, for no reason at all. The only purpose of our life is one we chose to make for ourselves.

How can we make a purpose for ourselves if "teh all-powerful ATOMZ!!1111" have already written our destiny for us?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

How can we make a purpose for ourselves if "teh all-powerful ATOMZ!!1111" have already written our destiny for us?

What? We don't have a destiny. Atoms are what we are made up of, our thoughts are sparked by atoms, the whole universe is made of incomprehnesibly small atomic particles. But we can do what we want. I could go commit suicide. But I hold on knowing that life is all there is. But I have no idea what your going on about. Destiny is just made up to explain events that happened in the passage of time.

EDIT: Besides I don't recall mentioning atoms.

 

[repiV]

What? We don't have a destiny. Atoms are what we are made up of, our thoughts are sparked by atoms, the whole universe is made of incomprehnesibly small atomic particles. But we can do what we want. I could go commit suicide. It used to be very tempting. But I hold on knowing that life is all there is. And I'm glad I did. But I have no idea what your going on about. Destiny is just made up to explain events that happened in the passage of time.

I was referring to Cole's posts, so your reply is irrelevant without that context.
He was rambling on about some scientology-esque shit where we are nothing more than atoms and everything that happens is just the result of atoms interacting. We have no free will, the atoms dictate our actions.
I had a hard time following it too...
The context of my reply, therefore, was - what would be the purpose of consciousness if we had no free will?

 

[Remus]

But I have no idea what your going on about. Destiny is just made up to explain events that happened in the passage of time.

Repiv is talking about what Cole said, read his posts. However I find Coles pseudo science vey humorous LOL

Edit damn too late LOL

We have no free will, the atoms dictate our actions.

Which is absolute nonsense

 

[repiV]

Repiv is talking about what Cole said, read his posts. However I find Coles pseudo science vey humorous LOL

Edit damn too late LOL



Which is absolute nonsense

You don't need to tell me that.
I was just like, WTF? I wondered for a moment if I'd had too much sambuca and killed off a few too many million brain cells, but I couldn't understand a damn thing in some of those long-ass posts. It was like reading a copy of the Qu'ran scribed by a dyslexic person - complete and total nonsense.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

My apolgise then.

 

[Solaris]

I was referring to Cole's posts, so your reply is irrelevant without that context.
He was rambling on about some scientology-esque shit where we are nothing more than atoms and everything that happens is just the result of atoms interacting. We have no free will, the atoms dictate our actions.
I had a hard time following it too...
The context of my reply, therefore, was - what would be the purpose of consciousness if we had no free will?

What he was saying was not shit, it was Science.

Everything is governed by the laws of physics whatever they may be. All we are are just chain reactions, atoms reacting with each other on a massive scale. Why do you presume consciousness has a purpose?

 

[repiV]

What he was saying was not shit, it was Science.

Everything is governed by the laws of physics whatever they may be. All we are are just chain reactions, atoms reacting with each other on a massive scale. Why do you presume consciousness has a purpose?

Everything has a purpose. The amount of times you bring up Darwin, I would expect you to acknowledge that.

Shit is exactly what it was.

 

[Shift]

It's all here.

And he never provided a proper argument for these things, just a few anecdotal cases which as they are the sole evidence make his argument logically fallacious.

I know many people are duped by Mediums and what not, but it's just psychology, none of them have ever passed a decent Scientific study. James Randi offers a million dollars to anyone who can, no-one has.

Calling a medium's ability to tell a persons life within minutes 'psychology' made me laugh because it shows your basic understanding of psychology. Psychology is analysing of people in different situations, however a mediums ability advances into a much more advanced specturm called 'parapsychology' which is the unexplained or phenomenums linked with the mind, in this instance, the ability for the human brain to contact the dead, this is the only viable explanation, as far as i and anyone who visits a medium is concerned, to how they know so much.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Everything has a purpose. The amount of times you bring up Darwin, I would expect you to acknowledge that.

Shit is exactly what it was.

But he is right. The descendants of apes need no purpose. The universe spontaneously appeared out of nothing, the vacuum occasionally spews out atoms and random things, which was what resulted in the big bang (trust me, I'm a cosmologist, well...only if I pass my exams). It just happened, and that means it has no purpose, which means we have no purpose, we just exist. All anything is is jsut atoms and reactions.

 

[repiV]

But he is right. The descendants of apes need no purpose. The universe spontaneously appeared out of nothing, the vacuum occasionally spews out atoms and random things, which was what resulted in the bog bang. It just happened, and that means it has no purpose, which means we have no purpose, we just exist. All anything is is jsut atoms and reactions.

I wasn't talking about philosophical shit. I meant from an evolutional perspective - consciousness must serve a purpose to be evolutionarily successful, as does every other part of a living creature. If we're just being led along a pre-determined path, why the hell would we need to enjoy the ride?

 

[Absinthe]

If mediums were legit, they'd be working for law enforcement, national foreign policy, or running businesses. If there was really a legitimate force at work through them, the scientific community would have engineered countless experiments to say, without a reasonable doubt, that such abilities were real.

There has been no such event and the mediums are left either rubbing crystal balls in their tents or hosting crappy Public Access shows.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

If mediums were legit, they'd be working for law enforcement, national foreign policy, or running businesses. If there was really a legitimate force at work through them, the scientific community would have engineered countless experiments to say, without a reasonable doubt, that such abilities were real.

There has been no such event and the mediums are left either rubbing crystal balls in their tents or hosting crappy Public Access shows.

Thats the thing, all these things seem so real, with multiple witnesses and seeming evidence. But when put to the test they all fail. Ghost stories, NDEs, OOBs, the whole thing.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I wasn't talking about philosophical shit. I meant from an evolutional perspective - consciousness must serve a purpose to be evolutionarily successful, as does every other part of a living creature. If we're just being led along a pre-determined path, why the hell would we need to enjoy the ride?

Your not getting it...nothing is preditermined, we can choose what we do, even animals have some kind of consciousness though, its nessacary part of life. But it doesn't have any long term purpose. I guess its just for awareness and the like.

EDIT: Hell, even cells have some kind of consciousness, its just very, very, VERY ridiculously different from ours.