Do you believe in an "afterlife"?

[el Chi]

Not even a little tiny bit. In a way, I hope not. I rather like life but to be honest, once it's over there's no need to carry on.
I do so hate when things are needlessly drawn out.

Besides which, most of the support for an afterlife in whichever hilarious guise it chooses to manifest itself in, comes from religion and I'm going to need something a bit more substantial than the word of a God I don't believe in.
Or the word of an oxygen-starved stabbing victim's near-death experience.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

I don't believe in it either.

 

[Shift]

Thats fair enough if thats what you believe in, but im always open to the wider spectrums of human understanding and i dont just need clear, hard facts on everything, and i have strong faith in many aspects of life. But thats just moi

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Well, I do believe in an afterlife (original concept of an after life). haha, guess I am the only one here *feels lonely*.

My view on an after life is a traditional heaven and hell, nothing wrong with that. That being said, the heaven I am think of is not the old traditional.... cute clouds, and everything else. I think of heaven as a paradise, beaches, feasts and parties at Gods crib Yo', and what not. I am not a extremist, but I am a moderately devoted christian. I won't be in your face and try to convert you or anything like that, but I have my beliefs and respect other peoples beliefs. I think religion has helped me become a somewhat of a better person, even though I still swear alot and curse, ehh who cares.

Also the science gabber is boring me, I read the first paragraph.. but after that, ya lost me.

 

[Shift]

Yeah the science parts put me to sleep too kami

I like your points, and yeah heaven would be awsome if it was like that, i cant say im a dovoted christian, but i live by moral values and always try and do what is right, face up to all my fears because that is just the way i am. Plus i believe in god to an extent.

 

[Absinthe]

Also the science gabber is boring me, I read the first paragraph.. but after that, ya lost me.

If science - nay, rational thought - is too boring for you to read or understand, I guess your opinion isn't qualified to validly comment on anything.

Shift, if you can show me a single, solid shred of evidence for the afterlife other than brains deprived of oxygen, please do so. No mystical explanation or TV documentary is going to legitimize any of this conjecture.

 

[Muffin Man]

If science - nay, rational thought - is too boring for you to read or understand, I guess your opinion isn't qualified to validly comment on anything.

I've never seen you post something that wasn't negative. I agree with you in this case, but why all the hate? Got a stick up your arse? I like opposing opinions, I love to debate, but every one of your posts just insults people who don't agree with you, =/.

 

[Asknoone]

Absinthe occupies a space of sheer awesome. There's fun to be had in being a douche...however terrible that may sound. It's the internet, stop giving a damn.

 

[Shift]

Sometimes i think some people on hear think they are waaay smarter than they actualy are, his opinion is just as qualified to validly comment on this aspect as yours, so if you wanna play it that way, you only train on pure hard facts and will only open to the fact that we are merely physical being with a complex brain, while he and others on this topic are willing to expand their train of thoughts to much wider spectrums beyond human understanding, and think that there is much, much more to this life than a mere physical presence.

Some people just have to understand that in some topics, i.e. this one, their point isn't always correct

<awaits ludricrous reply in an attempt to make me look stupid>

 

[Muffin Man]

Absinthe occupies a space of sheer awesome. There's fun to be had in being a douche...however terrible that may sound. It's the internet, stop giving a damn.

Oh, I know. I just don't think it's necessary in EVERY post. It's not like he ruined my day or anything, .

 

[Shift]

I've never seen you post something that wasn't negative. I agree with you in this case, but why all the hate? Got a stick up your arse? I like opposing opinions, I love to debate, but every one of your posts just insults people who don't agree with you, =/.

Its because he is exited in BELIEVING that his concious self will cease to be when he snuffs it.

 

[Asknoone]

i.e. this one, there point isn't always correct, in this discussion, there is no write or wrong answer, just the faith of different people.

Its because he is exiting in knowing the fact that he concious self will cease to be when he snuffs it.

There's your ludicrous reply.

 

[Shift]

im sorry, i have had a stressful day, currently shattered and under influence of alcohol, my replies will be a bit edgy.

Edited now, happy?!

 

[Asknoone]

write you are

 

[Absinthe]

I've never seen you post something that wasn't negative. I agree with you in this case, but why all the hate? Got a stick up your arse? I like opposing opinions, I love to debate, but every one of your posts just insults people who don't agree with you, =/.

I'd like you to point out any insults in that post. What you perceive as hatred is an unwillingness to kowtow to irrational thinking. I don't feel any particular need to employ euphemisms just so people can feel better about absurdity.

Shift, no. He is not qualified to comment. On this topic or anything if he indeed finds science too boring to deal with.

Hey, I find mathematics to be boring! I guess that means I can completely disregard it and develop my own separate system in which magic numbers fart out candy canes every time I just feel good about an equation. 4+4=72, you say? Rock on!

I am obviously being sarcastic, but that should effectively demonstrate how irrational it is to disregard critical thinking skills and replace it with worthless fantasy just because you can't or are unwilling to engage in rational thought processes. The lesson we can learn from this is that - contrary to popular feel-good notions - many opinions are dumb, unsubstantiated, or just flat out wrong. As somebody who is still living (I presume) I'm not able to state concretely that there is no afterlife. I can, however, say there is absolutely no credible reason to believe in one. That the bulk of your argument is based on near-death experiences proves this further.

 

[Muffin Man]

I guess your opinion isn't qualified to validly comment on anything.

Just because it's subtle and well voiced doesn't make it any less of an insult.

I just think you're opinions, while valid, are much too abrasive. I don't really find it necessary, and it probably hurts the discussion more than help it. There are plenty of people more intelligent than you or I who have had faith in something without the need for scientific proof, and who have believed in the after-life. I don't think constantly repeating how rational thought disproves religion is doing any good.

And, I agree with you. If you can't look at least look at something from the opposing view, it doesn't help your argument. But neither does constantly implying that the people around you are morons.

 

[Absinthe]

Just because it's subtle and well voiced doesn't make it any less of an insult.

That is not an insult. That is the truth.

You may consider it to be both, if you really want to. If that's the case, I think attempting to clarify some kind of distinction is pointless.

People who believe in a flat Earth are not educated. Fact.
Societies that tolerate or condone sawing the heads off of prisoners on videotape are less civilized than those who don't. Fact.
People who don't understand science have no valid commentary on natural phenomenons. Fact.

In each of these cases, there certainly is an accusation of inferiority in one area or another, and I certainly don't expect positive reactions from them. But that doesn't make them less true. Just because some facts are brutal or scathing doesn't diminish their validity.

I just think you're opinions, while valid, are much too abrasive. I don't really find it necessary, and it probably hurts the discussion more than help it. There are plenty of people more intelligent than you or I who have had faith in something without the need for scientific proof, and who have believed in the after-life. I don't think constantly repeating how rational thought disproves religion is doing any good.

So what if people smarter than me believed in an afterlife? People far more intelligent than myself also share my view in the non-existence of an afterlife. What do we learn from this?

That people, no matter how intelligent they are, are still fallible. There is no such thing as a totally rational person. A person that finds no evidence to believe in an afterlife can still be a racist, or vice versa.

As it stands, there is no evidence (empirical or otherwise) that supports the idea of an afterlife. If this sounds repetitive, then it's because people have utterly failed to grasp this. In fact, it's worse than that. It's a willful denial. It's a mad impulse to bestow your trust in TV documentaries designed as infotainment or single, uncorroborated books despite that there has been no scientific consensus granting any significant validity to the idea. It's like when people read a book or watch a TV program and see the title Do Ghosts Exist?, and come away thinking "Gosh, there obviously must be some serious contention on this issue!". No, there isn't.

If you want to believe in afterlife, go right ahead. But do not pretend that such a belief is scientifically valid. Furthermore, if you are going to express such beliefs, don't be surprised when people call you out on the immense flaws.

 

[Leviticus]

Just reading over discussions like these is so depressing. Not because of any view expressed as much as how vehemently individuals defend those views without any regard for why they are defending or why they need to be defended in the first place. Personal notions about god and death are the most preconcieved and, subsequently, the most heavily fabricated and biased between person to person. I see that as a perfect reason to communicate them and discuss them as much as possible, but unfortunately we live in a world where ideas on "God" and "Soul" and "Belief" are considered pieces of property that a person owns, and persons consider philosophical dialogue an intrusive attack on their property. That is why you always see heated tempers and inflated egos on threads like these.

 

[Muffin Man]

You're not wrong, by any means. I just choose to voice myself differently. Sorry if I've been a bit argumentative, it's been a bad day.

The lack of scientific proof is no surprise; that is why it's called faith, after all. It is irrational to believe in an afterlife, in every way way possible. But I still choose to do it, to a certain extent. But, at the same time, I'm interested in the sciences. At least slightly more than average, anyway. I don't choose to look at it from one side of the debate, nor would I say that I am biased or ill educated. I come from a non-religious family, and I've chosen to believe something because I find it at least somewhat plausible. Not that I find organized religion as it is today to be the best thing ever... But that's a completely different subject.

I'm not set-in-stone on the matter, and I'm always looking for something to "test my faith." I guess that's why I like this thread.

I just brought up the subject of the intelligent people who are still religious because usually intelligent people can think rationally. So it's not like all of us are dimwits who ignore the evidence that is against us, .

But, sorry I've been a Grumpy Gus.

 

[FieryGoose]

Yeppers, sure do believe in an afterlife. I think of us being born into this shell we call our body, when we die our defining parts of us, aka soul, gets attracted like a magnet to where we will dwell for the rest of eternity. Sure dead people can't back me up on this but really what's the harm in believing, it keeps me in line and whatnot. When you live your life surrounding yourself with people you love, you definitely want to get in on the whole afterlife deal, some peoples reassurance comes when they just wish to see their loved ones again.
Also it feels good believing that the murderers, rapists, and kidnappers have a special place waiting for them when they die.

 

[Kyorisu]

You are a life form like many others, when you die you die. There is no fancy afterlife.

People can choose to believe what they want but in the grand scheme of things I can't see how you would think there is an afterlife.

 

[FieryGoose]

You are a life form like many others, when you die you die. There is no fancy afterlife.

People can choose to believe what they want but in the grand scheme of things I can't see how you would think there is an afterlife.

I'm sorry you don't see like I do because the grass is greener over here.

 

[Leviticus]

My religion is one that rejects most spiritual thought, but embraces the moral aspects of the world's religions. It is most closely resemblant of Zen Buddhism, but I wouldn't want to ascribe myself with that religion's certain precepts, which I couldn't always follow. I also don't call myself a Buddhist because of the unfair preconceptions many westerners have of it and its converts. Unfortunately, Buddhism and "New Age" have become synonomous, even though that movement resembled Hinduism more than Buddhism.

The belief in a Self or Soul which transcends time and space seems far more hedonistic to me than, say, a more nihilistic persuasion. As far as morality goes, entangling desire, fear, and ego up with an everlasting divinity often makes that divinity impure. For example; a dogmatic practitioner of the major monotheistic religions might practice because of the fear of god, the want of eternal paradise, and the unfaltering bigotry towards his or her own axioms. Now, some of these people do some marvelous things to benifit mankind, but of those there are some who do so for a moderately selfish reason; a holy ambition, if you will, where one desires above all else to find permanence with God. This kind of viewpoint seems to cheapen the most important things- human life, nature, and love -and aggrandize the supposition that the conservation of a soul would even be desirable over the impermanence we know now.

Don't get me wrong, though. I consider God and Soul to be two completely benign concepts in and of themselves. If a Christian considers the Souls of others to equal to his or her own, or considers every soul to originate from the same source and return to it, then he isn't so much different from myself. The main problem I have with monotheism is its focus on permanence. Nothing, at all, seems to be permanent in science and even in life. Human beings inhabit only a heartbeat of the history of the universe and that universe is expanding into oblivion, right now. Outside of this reality there are others, and outside of this multiverse there are probably others, too. How can we consider our own desires and fears so important in light of the ineffably large and small? How can we ask for eternal life when not even the universe itself is granted it?

No, I think we should slow down as a species. We all need to take a look around the world we live in and the people that inhabit it with us and really appreciate everything. Buddhism, if any religion, accomplishes that. The Buddhist teachings ask for a cosmopolitan religion that takes the focus away from the Self and places it on the world, right here and right now. It exists interdependantly with science and logic and, most importantly, it rejects convention in favor of compassion for all things and viewpoints. I'm done.

 

[FieryGoose]

Sorry for the multiple post in this thread but to your last statement.
Transcendentalism...

 

[Leviticus]

Sorry for the multiple post in this thread but to your last statement.
Transcendentalism...

A movement heavily influenced by eastern philosophy, yes.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Also it feels good believing that the murderers, rapists, and kidnappers have a special place waiting for them when they die.

Then your sick. Anybody who believes in eternal torment is a sick twisted freak. Anybody who believes that a kind and loving and forgiving (even though in the bible he murders hundreds of people) God would torture his childeren for all eternity has logic that is flawed. Not only that, if they take PLEASURE in believing that people will be screaming for mercy, only to have it fall on the deaf forgiving ears of God, if they take PLEASURE in believing that I will one day be barbaqued everyday forever and ever and ever THEY are no better than Hitler. In fact, if combined with the amount of deaths caused by Him alongside this shop of horrors, God would be the most evil creature imaginable. he's eviler than hitler, than saddam huessain, than Osama Bin Laden, hes a worse moster than any film could cook up. He is the monster, and his followers are his monstrous little minions.

EDIT: and this isn't just to you, its to everybody who believes in eternal torture.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm sorry you don't see like I do because the grass is greener over here.

The difference is that your grass is a self-induced hallucination.

 

[Shift]

Then your sick. Anybody who believes in eternal torment is a sick twisted freak. Anybody who believes that a kind and loving and forgiving (even though in the bible he murders hundreds of people) God would torture his childeren for all eternity has logic that is flawed. Not only that, if they take PLEASURE in believing that people will be screaming for mercy, only to have it fall on the deaf forgiving ears of God, if they take PLEASURE in believing that I will one day be barbaqued everyday forever and ever and ever THEY are no better than Hitler. In fact, if combined with the amount of deaths caused by Him alongside this shop of horrors, God would be the most evil creature imaginable. he's eviler than hitler, than saddam huessain, than Osama Bin Laden, hes a worse moster than any film could cook up. He is the monster, and his followers are his monstrous little minions.

EDIT: and this isn't just to you, its to everybody who believes in eternal torture.

You are talking about the evil men of history, and you didn't bring up Stalin? He was the worst of all. Not only did he kill hundreds of his goverment because of paranoia, and decimate every little oppoisiton to his party, he then goes and send millions of soldiers to war using ruthless tactics (which yes worked out in the end) because he couldn't care less about their well being as long as the war was won, and his complete disregard for the civilians of Russia meant that millions of them were killed also. Then comes the famous quote of pure evil, 'The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic'.

But yeah Hitler wasn't far behind as he had an overwhelming urge to completely erradicate the Jews and other 'inferior' races which resulted in over 7 million deaths, and he talked about the love of his country and civilians, but then over on the Eastern Front when the Red Army had Stalingrad completely surrounded and cut off, when the gernerals said it was the last chance for the German soliders caught in Stalingrad to escape, he said no which resulted in most of them being killed or caputred (which usually meant death anyway).

Sorry, just love my history, but on my final thought of this topic, its obvious we all have different interpretation of what happens after we die and thats obvious, but arguing over it is pretty dumb, i mean yeah you can argue over views of politics and history, but something as oudacious as the afterlife which us humans will simply never understand until we ourselves die, arguing over these views is just downright stupid. We are entitled to our beliefs, so lets just leave it at that shall we.

 

[Kyorisu]

EDIT: and this isn't just to you, its to everybody who believes in eternal torture.

The difference is that your grass is a self-induced hallucination.

Suddenly I like you two a lot more than I used to.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

You are talking about the evil men of history, and you didn't bring up Stalin? He was the worst of all. Not only did he kill hundreds of his goverment because of paranoia, and decimate every little oppoisiton to his party, he then goes and send millions of soldiers to war using ruthless tactics (which yes worked out in the end) because he couldn't care less about their well being as long as the war was won, and his complete disregard for the civilians of Russia meant that millions of them were killed also. Then comes the famous quote of pure evil, 'The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic'.

But yeah Hitler wasn't far behind as he had an overwhelming urge to completely erradicate the Jews and other 'inferior' races which resulted in over 7 million deaths, and he talked about the love of his country and civilians, but then over on the Eastern Front when the Red Army had Stalingrad completely surrounded and cut off, when the gernerals said it was the last chance for the German soliders caught in Stalingrad to escape, he said no which resulted in most of them being killed or caputred (which usually meant death anyway).

Sorry, just love my history, but on my final thought of this topic, its obvious we all have different interpretation of what happens after we die and thats obvious, but arguing over it is pretty dumb, i mean yeah you can argue over views of politics and history, but something as oudacious as the afterlife which us humans will simply never understand until we ourselves die, arguing over these views is just downright stupid. We are entitled to our beliefs, so lets just leave it at that shall we.

Thats cool, forgot Stalin, you certainly do like your history.

Suddenly I like you two a lot more than I used to.

That was sarcastic wasn't it. Was it? Sorry, I just suck at internet sarcasm. It needs a

 

[Muffin Man]

The difference is that your grass is a self-induced hallucination.

Coming from a drug user.

 

[Ennui]

Who cares about an afterlife? Focus on your life, not your death. All you're doing if you're caring that much about what happens if you die is either getting your hopes up or selling yourself short on what you've got between now and then.

Muffin Man, when we see weird shit happening on drugs, we don't believe in them and place our spiritual stock in them, pretty huge difference.

 

[Muffin Man]

Who cares about an afterlife? Focus on your life, not your death. All you're doing if you're caring that much about what happens if you die is either getting your hopes up or selling yourself short on what you've got between now and then.

Muffin Man, when we see weird shit happening on drugs, we don't believe in them and place our spiritual stock in them, pretty huge difference.

You still use drugs to hallucinate, no? I'm sure you enjoy it, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to evoke hallucinations. I don't see the difference. We both like escaping from reality for a little while, the difference is I'm not calling Absinthe a retard because of it. I've got no beef with casual drug users like he seems to have with people who are religious.

 

[Ennui]

Hallucinations are really more a side effect of psychedelics than a primary goal, though, for a lot of people at least. Also, we're talking about completely different semantic meanings of hallucinations here.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Coming from a drug user.

If Absinthe DID do drugs (and I don't know that he did) I'm sure he could tell the differance between a drug-induced vision and some batshit light at the end of a tunnel. And anyway, who the **** are you to use that against him?

 

[Shift]

a muffin man?

 

[Ennui]

If Absinthe DID do drugs (and I don't know that he did) I'm sure he could tell the differance between a drug-induced vision and some batshit light at the end of a tunnel. And anyway, who the **** are you to use that against him?

Whoa, relax, Muffin Man didn't mean anything bad by it, I think he was just pointing it out... no need to fly off the handle!

 

[Shift]

wait until absinthe reads the comment, then we'll be flying off the handle lol

 

[Asknoone]

I'm sorry you don't see like I do because the grass is greener over here.

I can actually see the grass being greener in ****ing cucko-land.

 

[Muffin Man]

Whoa, relax, Muffin Man didn't mean anything bad by it, I think he was just pointing it out... no need to fly off the handle!

Indeed, I just found the wording ironic. Not trying to insult anyone here, D:.

Everyone needs an escape from reality. Whether it be music, sports, religion, drugs, everyone has something. I just think it's a little cooky calling everyone who chooses to believe something without any scientific fact a nut-job. After all, we're all nut-jobs.

Not everyone who's religious or believes in something is a radical. Are we fooling ourselves into believe something just for comfort? Perhaps we are. But I don't go around trying to convince people they're wrong, or preaching to people who look to science instead of religion. Their opinion is very valid, and I can see where they're coming from.