Do you believe in an "afterlife"?

[Terminator]

I wasn't talking about philosophical shit. I meant from an evolutional perspective - consciousness must serve a purpose to be evolutionarily successful, as does every other part of a living creature. If we're just being led along a pre-determined path, why the hell would we need to enjoy the ride?

That's actually balls, we are not evolved 'perfect' it's vital for a creature to 'enjoy' the things it does otherwise it wouldn't do them and those genetics would die out.

 

[repiV]

Your not getting it...nothing is preditermined, we can choose what we do, even animals have some kind of consciousness though, its nessacary part of life. But it doesn't have any long term purpose. I guess its just for awareness and the like.

EDIT: Hell, even cells have some kind of consciousness, its just very, very, VERY ridiculously different from ours.

I'm not even arguing that we can choose what we do, what's your point?
Maybe you're just misunderstanding me, but either way I can't be arsed to explain it again.

That's actually balls, we are not evolved 'perfect' it's vital for a creature to 'enjoy' the things it does otherwise it wouldn't do them and those genetics would die out.

I didn't say we evolved perfectly. Why would a human without consciousness enjoy anything? *sigh*

 

[Remus]

LOL I don't know why you even bother with them...

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I'm not even arguing that we can choose what we do, what's your point?
Maybe you're just misunderstanding me, but either way I can't be arsed to explain it again.

Sorry?

If we're just being led along a pre-determined path, why the hell would we need to enjoy the ride?

Pre-determined, in the event that you don't know, means that the subject in question has already has its fate decided. This means that we would have no choice, that everything we do has already been decided for us. Which means you ARE, whether intenitonally or not, argueing that we can't choose what we do.

LOL I don't know why you even bother with them...

Lol, so please explain to me, what counciouness is then? Please tell me what the brain is. Because unless all I have studied is batshit, EVERYTHING around us is the result of atoms and reactions, including the brain.

 

[Shift]

To be honest, everyone is making this topic way more complicated than it really needs to be, people keep rambling on with these jiberish theories of science. Personally, i afgree fully with the big band theory and evolution, but i see many things that occur in this world that simply cannot be explained enough to convince me, no matter how hard people try. I also fully agree with that nothing whatsoever can explain how everything started way back in the origins of the universe, how can a vacuum suddenly exist, if its logic you all seem obsessed with, then logically theory cannot explain how the gases and atoms that made the big band suddenly appeared, everything has a beginning, just like the origins of our evolution. Thats my belief, and nothing can change that. But, if you wanna go through your lives stern in your theory that when you finally die, you will cease to be completely, that you will be basically nothing, 'blackness', then be my guest, because for normal people, thats pretty disconcerting.

 

[Muffin Man]

...What... is... consciousness..?...

*Head asplode*

 

[Remus]

That's actually balls, we are not evolved 'perfect' it's vital for a creature to 'enjoy' the things it does otherwise it wouldn't do them and those genetics would die out.

Oh I see, so by that same logic even something like a bacteria would have to enjoy itself so it wouldn't commit suicide? ....

And AtomicPiggy, how damn hard is it to understand, Repiv was simply saying that consciousness must have some sort of practical use otherwise we wouldn't have evolved to be conscious of ourselves and the world we live in.

And for the last time our actions are not predetermined, I could go right now and jump off the building, I'm sure fate destiny or whatever the hell you want to call it wouldn't be to happy about that.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Oh I see, so by that same logic even something like a bacteria would have to enjoy itself so it wouldn't commit suicide? ....

And AtomicPiggy, how damn hard is it to understand, Repiv was simply saying that consciousness must have some sort of practical use otherwise we wouldn't have evolved to be conscious of ourselves and the world we live in.

And for the last time our actions are not predetermined, I could go right now and jump off the building, I'm sure fate destiny or whatever the hell you want to call it wouldn't be to happy about that.

I'm not saying everything is pre-determined, RepiV, as I pointed out was the one saying this. Consciousness, as I have agreed, does serve a pratical use, it gives us awareness, hell, if we didn't have counciousness, we proboaly wouldn't know we existed. But consciousness in cells is VERY different (if they even have one at all), as I said from ours. Cells don't even have a mind, they might not even have a consciousness at all. But unless we live as cells in our next life or some shit like that, we will never know whether they do. They're consciousness would be greatly different from ours, to the point where, if they were intelligent, sapient creatures we wouldn't understand them and vice-versa.

EDIT: However, that doesn't give consciousness a use in the long term.

Its happening again! *dives out a window*

I also fully agree with that nothing whatsoever can explain how everything started way back in the origins of the universe, how can a vacuum suddenly exist,

You can believe what you want, but as soon as you start asking questions like this "where did the vacuum come from" you start asking things like "where did whatever created the vacuum come from" and eventaully it leads to god, and then we ask where he comes from, and sudenlly its all" HES B33N AROUND FOREVER DUDE" If people can belive that somehow, a complex bieng like god can just exist forever, how can they have difficulties believing in a airless, pitch black nothingness. And don't pull that "everything has to have a begining" rubbish, we know nothing about what was before the big bang, save that it was a vacuum. Still, were not here to talk about the big bang, or even the mind, just afterlife. And I reiterate: No I don't and won't until some REAL (not just some peoples mental experiances) comes along.

 

[repiV]

Jesus ****ing christ. I am NOT saying that everything is pre-determined, have you actually read this thread?
PLEASE do that before replying again.

 

[Absinthe]

But, if you wanna go through your lives stern in your theory that when you finally die, you will cease to be completely, that you will be basically nothing, 'blackness', then be my guest, because for normal people, thats pretty disconcerting.

Please don't go calling people abnormal just because you believe in things that have no evidence.

That I believe I will cease to exist is quite rational.

 

[Shift]

Im not calling you abnormal because you believe in that theory, im calling you abnormal because you somehow seek comfort in knowing that you be a feild of nothingness after death.

 

[Remus]

im calling you abnormal because you somehow seek comfort in knowing that you be a feild of nothingness after death.

Then including me, you have two abnormals on your hands LOL

 

[Uriel]

Pointless in arguing, just wait and see.

kthxbi

 

[Absinthe]

What does seeking comfort have to do with anything?

I do not believe in things to make me feel good.

If your life sucks so much that you need to be comforted by a fairy tale of an afterlife, then I'm not the one with problems.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Im not calling you abnormal because you believe in that theory, im calling you abnormal because you somehow seek comfort in knowing that you be a feild of nothingness after death.

I get comfort from it knowing that I'm not gonna burn forever and ever and ever at the hands of a "forgiving" god for gambling or shagging a chick before I get married.

 

[Absinthe]

I get comfort from it knowing that I'm not gonna burn forever and ever and ever at the hands of a "forgiving" god for gambling or shagging a chick before I get married.

That is the silver lining.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Jesus ****ing christ. I am NOT saying that everything is pre-determined, have you actually read this thread?
PLEASE do that before replying again.

Well, I have read the thread and well...I'm sorry, you never said that YOU believed that everything was already set, I see now. Soz :cheers:

That is the silver lining.

 

[MiccyNarc]

And for the last time our actions are not predetermined, I could go right now and jump off the building, I'm sure fate destiny or whatever the hell you want to call it wouldn't be to happy about that.

That just means you were predetermined to jump off the building.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Remus]

That just means you were predetermined to jump off the building.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

:|

And now I'm predetermined to take a plane to wherever the hell you live and put a bullet through your head

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

That just means you were predetermined to jump off the building.

Its all bullshit anyway. People will belive anything that makes us live for a reason.

 

[repiV]

Well, I have read the thread and well...I'm sorry, you never said that YOU believed that everything was already set, I see now. Soz :cheers:

No probs at all. Sorry for swearing, I just got a bit agitated because I thought we'd already established I was responding to Cole and his line of thought. :cheers:

 

[ríomhaire]

Cole's argument:
Your entire brain is made of atoms, everything in your brain (and thus, every single experience in your entire life) is a result of these atoms reacting with eachother. If this is true (And there is no logical, scientific reason to assume that it isn't, and plenty to assume that it is) then when you die the atoms don't go anywhere and stop reacting. Thus there can be no afterlife unless there is some sort of other particals/energies in your brain that science has yet to discover (There is near to naught evidence to suggest this) in your brain. This is perfectly logical and anyone who calls it pseudo-science doesn't understand what the hell they're talking about.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

No probs at all. Sorry for swearing, I just got a bit agitated because I thought we'd already established I was responding to Cole and his line of thought. :cheers:

No, no, no, I misunderstood you and accused you time and time again. You don't need to apologise.

Cole's argument:
Your entire brain is made of atoms, everything in your brain (and thus, every single experience in your entire life) is a result of these atoms reacting with eachother. If this is true (And there is no logical, scientific reason to assume that it isn't, and plenty to assume that it is) then when you die the atoms don't go anywhere and stop reacting. Thus there can be no afterlife unless there is some sort of other particals/energies in your brain that science has yet to discover (There is near to naught evidence to suggest this) in your brain. This is perfectly logical and anyone who calls it pseudo-science doesn't understand what the hell they're talking about.

Thats exactly what I'm saying. Everything we see, hear, touch, taste and smell is the result of atoms, reactions and random chance. When your dead your brain shuts down, meaning you cannot possibly percieve anything beyond death.

 

[Shift]

Edit: Replying to comments a bit above

You have completely misunderstood my theory on afterlife, i do not believe in the christian interpretation of the afterlife of heaven and hell, i certainly do not believe that you must be a perfect human to do well in the afterlife and go to church every Sunday and give to charity and that garbage.

I believe everything has a purpose, no matter how big or small (listen to Agent Smith's interpretation in Matrix Reloaded xD), i also believe in phenomenum that occurs and that they simply cannot be explained enough to convince me otherwise, I believe that something happens after death to be put simply, whatever the hell that is is of no relevance at this time though, as i am currently not deceased, and aim to live this life to its fullist before the inevitable happens, my belief in knowing that at least something happens after death is what drives me to take more risks in life and even put my life in danger for the sake of others if the situation calls for it.

That is, and will always be my belief, so you might as well save your breath and not reply with boring scientific theories.

But all im gonna say is, that everything in this existance doesn't have to be explained with scientific theory, sometimes you will just fool yourself, sometimes you have just gotta open your mind to wider spectrums.

/my2cents

 

[Muffin Man]

Edit: Replying to comments a bit above

You have completely misunderstood my theory on afterlife, i do not believe in the christian interpretation of the afterlife of heaven and hell, i certainly do not believe that you must be a perfect human to do well in the afterlife and go to church every Sunday and give to charity and that garbage.

I believe everything has a purpose, no matter how big or small (listen to Agent Smith's interpretation in Matrix Reloaded xD), i also believe in phenomenum that occurs and that they simply cannot be explained enough to convince me otherwise, I believe that something happens after death to be put simply, whatever the hell that is is of no relevance at this time though, as i am currently not deceased, and aim to live this life to its fullist before the inevitable happens, my belief in knowing that at least something happens after death is what drives me to take more risks in life and even put my life in danger for the sake of others if the situation calls for it.

That is, and will always be my belief, so you might as well save your breath and not reply with boring scientific theories.

But all im gonna say is, that everything in this existance doesn't have to be explained with scientific theory, sometimes you will just fool yourself, sometimes you have just gotta open your mind to wider spectrums.

/my2cents

Agreed. :cheers:

 

[Remus]

Cole's argument:
Your entire brain is made of atoms, everything in your brain (and thus, every single experience in your entire life) is a result of these atoms reacting with eachother. If this is true (And there is no logical, scientific reason to assume that it isn't, and plenty to assume that it is) then when you die the atoms don't go anywhere and stop reacting. Thus there can be no afterlife unless there is some sort of other particals/energies in your brain that science has yet to discover (There is near to naught evidence to suggest this) in your brain. This is perfectly logical and anyone who calls it pseudo-science doesn't understand what the hell they're talking about.

Oh brother I'm not disagreeing with this aspect, however you missed the part in Cole's posts where he uses this argument with "teh atoms111" to say that all our actions are predetermined which really is pseudo science and absolute garbage...

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Edit: Replying to comments a bit above

You have completely misunderstood my theory on afterlife, i do not believe in the christian interpretation of the afterlife of heaven and hell, i certainly do not believe that you must be a perfect human to do well in the afterlife and go to church every Sunday and give to charity and that garbage.

I believe everything has a purpose, no matter how big or small (listen to Agent Smith's interpretation in Matrix Reloaded xD), i also believe in phenomenum that occurs and that they simply cannot be explained enough to convince me otherwise, I believe that something happens after death to be put simply, whatever the hell that is is of no relevance at this time though, as i am currently not deceased, and aim to live this life to its fullist before the inevitable happens, my belief in knowing that at least something happens after death is what drives me to take more risks in life and even put my life in danger for the sake of others if the situation calls for it.

That is, and will always be my belief, so you might as well save your breath and not reply with boring scientific theories.

But all im gonna say is, that everything in this existance doesn't have to be explained with scientific theory, sometimes you will just fool yourself, sometimes you have just gotta open your mind to wider spectrums.

/my2cents

Thats fine, if you want to believe that, awesome.

Just two things: 1) please don't call me or anyone else who doesn't believe in anything "abnormal" unless you can define what normal is.

2) I simply was trying to make you aware about asking these questions "where did everything come from" because they only lead to arguments and misunderstandings. Anyway, I'm gonna go back and edit my posts for less ferocity.

Oh brother I'm not disagreeing with this aspect, however you missed the part in Cole's posts where he uses this argument with "teh atoms111" to say that all our actions are predetermined which really is pseudo science and absolute garbage...

yep, that was rubbish. I was just arguing with the wrong dude about it D:

 

[ríomhaire]

Edit: Replying to comments a bit above

You have completely misunderstood my theory on afterlife, i do not believe in the christian interpretation of the afterlife of heaven and hell, i certainly do not believe that you must be a perfect human to do well in the afterlife and go to church every Sunday and give to charity and that garbage.

I believe everything has a purpose, no matter how big or small (listen to Agent Smith's interpretation in Matrix Reloaded xD), i also believe in phenomenum that occurs and that they simply cannot be explained enough to convince me otherwise, I believe that something happens after death to be put simply, whatever the hell that is is of no relevance at this time though, as i am currently not deceased, and aim to live this life to its fullist before the inevitable happens, my belief in knowing that at least something happens after death is what drives me to take more risks in life and even put my life in danger for the sake of others if the situation calls for it.

That is, and will always be my belief, so you might as well save your breath and not reply with boring scientific theories.

But all im gonna say is, that everything in this existance doesn't have to be explained with scientific theory, sometimes you will just fool yourself, sometimes you have just gotta open your mind to wider spectrums.

/my2cents

You have completely misunderstood the arguements posted against an afterlife. We are not saying that there is no heaven or hell, we are saying that is is impossible for a human to percieve anything beyond death. This is not about any specific views on what happens to a 'soul' after you die or any place you go. It is simply impossible for a human brain to experience anything after death.

 

[Muffin Man]

You have completely misunderstood the arguements posted against an afterlife. We are not saying that there is no heaven or hell, we are saying that is is impossible for a human to percieve anything beyond death. This is not about any specific views on what happens to a 'soul' after you die or any place you go. It is simply impossible for a human brain to experience anything after death.

Very true. The brain, and with it your physical consciousness, is pretty much toast after you stop functioning. But I, myself, choose to believe that there is something more to life than just the physical body. Why, I have no idea. I just want to go through life, generally trying to be a good person, and whatever comes next, if anything, is fine by me.

If that makes me an idiot in the eyes of some, I couldn't care less. I don't try and get others to think like me, or challenge anyone's belief that there is no after-life. It's more rational, but, if you ask me, we know far too little about anything to come to such conclusions.

I just want to lead a good, honest life.

:cheers:

 

[Shift]

Well of course i know the human brain cant survive physically if no blood or oxygen supplies it, but yes, to go technical, i do believe in the body having a concious auro which is generated to our physical being by the brain.

According to fact, the area that supposidly controls things like our personality isn't entirely logical and isn't fully proven as that area is probably the most complex part of the brain which furthers my belief that the bodies soul is what holds our personality etc, and the brain merely projects that onto the current physical being, i believe that this soul survives for eternity, and yeah fine, this soul could go to this perfect place called heaven if its served its purpose in the universe, or perhaps it hasn't so it is to be reincarnated?. Or it could wander around (ghosts?) because of 'unfinished business' if you believe in that sort of stuff, or it could be placed into another physical being.

I believe that the soul contains all the attributes of its previous physical self, but if entering a new physical form, its gains a new brain therefore, a new memory, but still contains the same personality as the previous self which can explain how people claim to have seen themselves in past lives.

You have to use your imagination really, buts that what i think happens

 

[Shift]

Very true. The brain, and with it your physical consciousness, is pretty much toast after you stop functioning. But I, myself, choose to believe that there is something more to life than just the physical body. Why, I have no idea. I just want to go through life, generally trying to be a good person, and whatever comes next, if anything, is fine by me.

If that makes me an idiot in the eyes of some, I couldn't care less. I don't try and get others to think like me, or challenge anyone's belief that there is no after-life. It's more rational, but, if you ask me, we know far too little about anything to come to such conclusions.

I just want to lead a good, honest life.

:cheers:

good for you

 

[Remus]

I don't try and get others to think like me, or challenge anyone's belief that there is no after-life.

Oh, but that takes all the fun out of it if you don't force everyone to believe the same things you do... J/K

 

[Shift]

Seems to be a main prospect of this website hehe

 

[Darkside55]

Thread's too long, didn't read, but I'm just going to comment that the afterlife is a nice idea, but that's all it is. An idea.

I'd sure like to talk with my father (who died when I was a boy) as a grown man face to face, or tell my grandfather I loved him (something I never got to really do before he died), but I won't be able to. Anyone else I care about who dies in the future, same thing. It's a nice idea that there's an afterlife and you'll meet up with the people you've lost, but all it is is a false comfort.

Belief in the afterlife is just a way to make people feel better about lost loved ones, and also to stave off the fear that after we die, there's naught but nonexistence. Which is a scary feeling, because our brains just aren't capable of comprehending a total "off" state. You think about it long enough, you freak the fvck out. I woke up the other night just thinking about that, matter of fact...

I'd also like to mention that you can be religious and not believe in an afterlife. Weird as that sounds, one of my great aunts lost her husband recently, and she believes in a God but not in an afterlife. It's the first sort of opinion I've heard like that.

Oh and also, people who believe in reincarnation have memory problems. So said scientists in the news a few weeks back. So if anyone in here said, "I believe in reincarnation and past lives," sorry, you've got memory problems.

 

[Pulse]

Typical of science to dub someone with a belief to have mental problems of some variety.

My memory is fine thank you very much

 

[Llama]

I am in support of the pre determined theory, but anyone that says this means an afterlife is impossible clearly has not considered our current lives with in this universe.
Omega Point is a good example of this. The theory states that the universe might simply be a simulation run of a quantum computer of sorts. I can't remember the details now, but it's an interesting theory.

I am personally not sure about the afterlife...I'd like there to be one (A pleasant one at least), but I don't hold out hope...either way I probably won't be disappointed.

 

[Shift]

lol@bad memory, is that the best scientists can come up with hehe

and off-topic:

wtf happened to my post count, it was closely approaching 2000, and now its gone down to 1,203, damn i was getting exiting too

 

[Darkside55]

My memory is fine thank you very much

So you think.

But then, these are the thoughts and assurances from someone who has memory problems.

 

[Absinthe]

lol@bad memory, is that the best scientists can come up with hehe

It's actually a far more sensible explanation than "I AM A GHOST TRAVELING FROM HOST BODIES THROUGHOUT TIME FOR NO APPARENT REASON".

 

[Shift]

Actually, i think its viable theory, my comment was a joke, arsehole.