Do you smoke cigarettes?

[pomegranate]

You must be joking..... smokers pay for their healthcare 100 times over.

Perhaps.

 

[Idonno >_<]

No.
It kills you, it costs a lot of money, it makes you stink, ruins your skin, ruins your fitness, and it costs the taxpayer money to put you right when it ****s up your body. Trying to justify all that by saying it's a fun habit or that it soothes/stimulates you is self-deluding.
Free world though... but I don't see why the rest of us should have to suffer and pay (as taxpayers) for the consequences of your indulgence.

I donno...my friend tried that stuff and got pretty messed up. Like to this day he is really F***ed up. I agree with you.

 

[Absinthe]

Perhaps.

They do. If you're a smoker, insurance costs more for you. Say anything else you want about us. That we stink, or whatever. But don't try to pull this "drain on the nation" crap.

And god damn it, I am so sick of hearing this "it kills you" mantra. Guess what? Big Macs kill you. Cars kill you. That oreo cookie you just took a bite out of could potentially lodge in your throat and (wait for it) kill you.
Hey, does that sound ridiculous to you? That's because it is. While smoking is arguably more hazardous than the other examples, the fact remains that not every smoker keels over and dies from his habit. Not even the majority of them.

 

[lePobz]

I'm a definite non-smoker....and I still don't agree with le Pobz. Nobody can who's known and cared for someone who happens to smoke.

Uh? I've known, loved, cared for, and been mates with, people that have and do smoke ... I just don't really see the point and think the world would be better without cigarettes :-/ People can do what they like in their own homes, but why should they subject people to filthy smoke fumes in a public place?

 

[Absinthe]

Uh? I've known, loved, cared for, and been mates with, people that have and do smoke ... I just don't really see the point and think the world would be better without cigarettes :-/ People can do what they like in their own homes, but why should they subject people to filthy smoke fumes in a public place?

That's an entirely different matter from smoking itself.

 

[lePobz]

That's an entirely different matter from smoking itself.

Come again? Forgive me for stupidly thinking smoking and smoke were related...

 

[VirusType2]

No.
It kills you, it costs a lot of money, it makes you stink, ruins your skin, ruins your fitness, and it costs the taxpayer money to put you right when it ****s up your body. Trying to justify all that by saying it's a fun habit or that it soothes/stimulates you is self-deluding.
Free world though... but I don't see why the rest of us should have to suffer and pay (as taxpayers) for the consequences of your indulgence.

Cigarettes are probably the most heavily taxed products in the world. It has something like a $1.29 tax on a $3 pack of cigarettes in certain areas. And smokers have to pay much higher health insurance. What ever are you talking about?

I just don't really see the point and think the world would be better without cigarettes

I agree somewhat. I think cigarettes should be banned and outlawed. That way, I would have never been hooked on them, and never would have liked them. But you know what? People will still smoke them. Marijuana is against the law, and people still smoke that. The difference is, if they are legal, the government can tax the living shit out of it. Tobacco is one of America's biggest crops, so they can tax it. Marijuana isn't, it's primarily shipped here. I guess it doesn't grow that well here.

What non-smokers don't understand because they have never enjoyed the drug, is that smokers enjoy it.

For example, if you had never had, or didn't like sex, you wouldn't realize that you will like it. So, it's easy for someone who has never had sex, or doesn't like sex to say that you don't really see the point in having sex.

Replace having sex or smoking a cigarette with eating lobster, or eating meat, punching your little brother, playing a video game, or anything you wish. It's just something some people like, and some people don't.

It's easy to say you don't understand the point in eating meat or playing a video game if you have never had a good experience with it, or have something against it.

 

[theotherguy]

My father is an avid smoker, and I am almost positive he has lung cancer, but he's too damn stubborn to see a doctor. Every now and then he'll cough up a bit of lung and then say it was "allergies"

he's tried to quit several times, but every time he fails. He's come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter to him anymore. He doesn't actually like smoking anymore, but he just can't stop.

Also, my girlfriends father is nearly dead in the hospital from smoking-related lung cancer, and its devestating her.

So no, I will never smoke, because I have seen what it is doing to my father, and I dont want to subject myself, or my children to that kind of torture.

 

[Absinthe]

Come again? Forgive me for stupidly thinking smoking and smoke were related...

You're talking about smoking in a public place. That is a different matter from smoking all by itself.

If you have an issue with second-hand smoke, then fine. But don't take your ire out on those who respect the health of others.

 

[PvtRyan]

People who smoke smell horribly.

Fact.

 

[Absinthe]

People who smoke smell horribly.

Fact.

No.

 

[Parlez]

No I do not.

 

[VirusType2]

People who eat tuna fish, peanut butter, fart, don't bathe, or wear too much cheap cologne or perfume smell horribly.

Fact.

Fixed.

 

[Absinthe]

^^
QFT

Jesus, everybody seems to assume smokers are unfamiliar with hygiene.

 

[theotherguy]

I constantly smell like smoke, and I don't even smoke, just my dad.

 

[Narcolepsy]

My opinions:

1.) Smoking is selfish. I cannot stand the smell of smoke. I cannot stand to be around smoke. When you walk down the sidewalk with a cigarette, not only are you slowly killing yourself, you're making everyone behind you miserable as well. The effects of secondhand smoke are up for debate, but I can ASSURE you that they're not beneficial.

2.) By the same token, smoking is a detriment to society. Too many otherwise fun activities have been ruined by the plague of secondhand smoke. Small, club-style music venues positvely reek with the stuff. Smokers take up valuable space in restaurants, putting those who have chosen not to slowly kill themselves at an often major inconvenience. (Luckily, many states are starting to ban smoking in restaurants and some public places.)

3.) Smoking is not the same as having a big mac. Food is nourishing. It tastes good. Granted, having a huge hamburger is not the most efficient or healthy way to eat, but it has a purpose. It can even save you money, unlike cigarettes which only serve to suck it away. And furthermore, you cannot get physically addicted to big macs, so you can have one every now and then, and stop whenever you like.

4.) Smoking is the epitome of greed. Companies are getting filthy rich by taking advantage of weakness in others. Our society buys and sells death on a stick.

5.) Almost everyone who has seen someone close to them harmed by smoking is adamantly against it. My grandfather died of lung cancer, for instance. I have to wonder, then, why so many people are so very dense. Does something really have to happen to someone close to you before you finally wake up? Do you really have to try it for yourself to conclude that, yes, it is addictive, and yes, it kills?

Yes, I feel passionately about the issue, and I welcome rebuttals. I'm not claiming to be a god of knowledge, I just feel strongly.

 

[lePobz]

I'm in the same boat as you, Narcolepsy... as Absinthe said (I think) I can't object to people keeping their smoking habbits to themselves ... but in a public place I think it's dirty, selfish and almost violating ... Why should I go home smelling like an ash tray?

 

[Absinthe]

My opinions:

1.) Smoking is selfish. I cannot stand the smell of smoke. I cannot stand to be around smoke. When you walk down the sidewalk with a cigarette, not only are you slowly killing yourself, you're making everyone behind you miserable as well. The effects of secondhand smoke are up for debate, but I can ASSURE you that they're not beneficial.

Passing by somebody in the street? I really only see issue with this if it's around children or such. Otherwise, it's such a neglible force.

2.) By the same token, smoking is a detriment to society. Too many otherwise fun activities have been ruined by the plague of secondhand smoke. Small, club-style music venues positvely reek with the stuff. Smokers take up valuable space in restaurants, putting those who have chosen not to slowly kill themselves at an often major inconvenience. (Luckily, many states are starting to ban smoking in restaurants and some public places.)

Then go to another restaurant or club. Those policies are decided by the owners. If you don't like it, take issue with them. But do not get indignant with me when I am allowed to smoke somewhere.

You talk as if they're second-class citizens when you talk about valuable space. We have smoking and non-smoking areas.

3.) Smoking is not the same as having a big mac. Food is nourishing. It tastes good. Granted, having a huge hamburger is not the most efficient or healthy way to eat, but it has a purpose. It can even save you money, unlike cigarettes which only serve to suck it away. And furthermore, you cannot get physically addicted to big macs, so you can have one every now and then, and stop whenever you like.

The purpose of a hamburger is nutrition. The purpose of a cigarette is relaxation or enjoyment. There are many things in life that do not serve life-sustaining purposes, but we engage in them any way.

Addiction is a factor, but that really doesn't stop a lot of people from having some of the most horrendous diets and lifestyles. Believe me, those are far more widespread than smoking.

4.) Smoking is the epitome of greed. Companies are getting filthy rich by taking advantage of weakness in others. Our society buys and sells death on a stick.

If you were a slave to your smoking. I and others couldn't care. And again, this issue of death doesn't apply to the wide majority of smokers. That's a sensationalist mantra harped by zealots.

5.) Almost everyone who has seen someone close to them harmed by smoking is adamantly against it. My grandfather died of lung cancer, for instance. I have to wonder, then, why so many people are so very dense. Does something really have to happen to someone close to you before you finally wake up? Do you really have to try it for yourself to conclude that, yes, it is addictive, and yes, it kills?

And for every one smoker who dies, how many others still live?

Sorry about your grandfather, but my family is flooded with smoking, and none of them have died from it.

 

[Direwolf]

I file smoking firmly under the "its a part of life" column. Its about as terrible as having an offensive bumper sticker. It might not be appropriate, but its such a minor nuisance I can't actually raise any ire against it. There are plenty practices in our society that are annoying and maybe even harmful, but putting up with them is necessary for daily life.

 

[Vegeta897]

Absinthe: There is no just cause for being against smoking.

Vegeta: Well that may be, but what we're all forgetting is anyone that smokes is gay.

VirusType2: I don't smoke!

Darth Sidious: I don't smoke either!

Absinthe: I'VE NEVER SMOKED A CIGARETTE IN MY LIFE!!!

 

[Narcolepsy]

First of all, Absinthe, here are the things I have to agree with you on:

The purpose of a hamburger is nutrition. The purpose of a cigarette is relaxation or enjoyment. There are many things in life that do not serve life-sustaining purposes, but we engage in them any way.

Addiction is a factor, but that really doesn't stop a lot of people from having some of the most horrendous diets and lifestyles. Believe me, those are far more widespread than smoking.

We could argue this one forever. Having never smoked, I can't see the relaxation or enjoyment in it. To me, it seems like a learned thing - once you get addicted, the nicotine relaxes you because it satisfies your craving. This would be different from food, which we are genetically programmed to enjoy, or a car, which despite being dangerous, fulfills a need of society. However, having not tried it, I can't be assured that there's not inherent enjoyment in it.

If you were a slave to your smoking. I and others couldn't care.

Very true. When I speak of the greed in the whole thing, that's just my personal sense of morality. I can't speak for everyone.

But here's where I still can't agree:

Passing by somebody in the street? I really only see issue with this if it's around children or such. Otherwise, it's such a neglible force.

True, it's not ruining my life. I can tolerate walking 15 minutes to class behind a smoker, sure. But this is arguably unhealthy, and absolutely making me miserable. Now here's the thing that you absolutely can't disprove: If you do something for pleasure that makes others miserable, THAT IS SELFISH. Smoking around children, etc., is more severe but is essentially the same issue.

Then go to another restaurant or club. Those policies are decided by the owners. If you don't like it, take issue with them. But do not get indignant with me when I am allowed to smoke somewhere.

Well, it'd be nice if I could go to a non-smoking club. But I assure you, there aren't many of them, and furthermore, I can't exactly choose where my favorite band performs, can I?

You talk as if they're second-class citizens when you talk about valuable space. We have smoking and non-smoking areas.

It's always easier to get a seat in a smoking section. But many will never take it, because it involves... being around smoke. If there were no smokers, and thus no smoking section, there'd be more seats for the majority. And as much as it's not fair sometimes, majority rules.

And for every one smoker who dies, how many others still live?

Sorry about your grandfather, but my family is flooded with smoking, and none of them have died from it.

I don't have statistics, so I can't argue with you on such grounds. But again, people do die from it, and hurt their loved ones in the process. Isn't that rather selfish?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Only occasionally

Funny, "stupid" and "weak" being the two words most commonly used by non-smokers to describe smokers ... Oh, along with "filthy" and "disgusting" ... not to mention selfish, inconsiderate, and just plain ****ing daft.

"Here ... smoke this ... you won't gain anything, it'll just sap your money and give you cancer."

"Cool, OK!"

Retard.

Um, it relaxes you and makes you feel good. And no, it hasn't put me out any money, it's rare I light up, maybe two times a month and usually cigars. I think you're just striving to be an ass.

Hey guys, it's cool to be completely hateful to people who make the personal choice to smoke! Jump on the bandwagon!

If you don't want to smoke that's cool, it's your choice. Stop trying to force your choice on others.

 

[Absinthe]

Your issue seems to be with owners' policies. If I'm allowed to smoke somewhere, then I'm sorry, but I'm entitled to. Complain if you want it changed, but getting angry with smokers is pointless and misguided.

I don't have statistics, so I can't argue with you on such grounds. But again, people do die from it, and hurt their loved ones in the process. Isn't that rather selfish?

I don't see how. I could hypothetically like skydiving, but would I be selfish for engaging in such a dangerous activity? After all, death is a certain possibility.

 

[Narcolepsy]

Complain if you want it changed, but getting angry with smokers is pointless and misguided.

I'm angry with smoking, not smokers. There are two ways to stop it - starve the market through legislation, or somehow convert the smokers. I think the former is more likely.

I don't see how. I could hypothetically like skydiving, but would I be selfish for engaging in such a dangerous activity?

Yeah, you would be somewhat selfish by definition. But I think I could argue that, for aforementioned reasons, smoking is more selfish - beyond my personal imaginary line of what is acceptable. But let's not turn this into a discussion of the subjectivity of morality. D:

 

[Steven]

smokeing for the lose

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I was raised about smoking same way Christian fanatics are raised about Satan.

Cigarettes will bring this world to ruin.

Besides that, every time I see a hot wimminz bust out a cig, my erection becomes flacid.

 

[Absinthe]

I think that defining that as selfish would make the word lose its meaning. =\

I don't see why you'd be angry with smoking. It's not an invasive entity or anything. If you're smoking, it's out of your choice. But I think I'm done here, having discussed it enough. Bottom line is that nobody should be forcing themselves on any other person, wether it be pressure to smoke or criticism of those who already do. Otherwise, you're kind of a cheesedick.

 

[Dog--]

My dad used to smoke when he was 20-27 I think, he quit and then he started back up like 5 years ago, he's 52 and ever since he's been smoking he's meaner.

 

[Viperidae]

Riddle me this:

I use the public transit bus system during the school year. Vancouver's buses are usually insano-full in the morning, and often I find myself being denied entry because the bus is full on my way to school.

I was severely asthmatic as a child. I've recovered much since then, but any kind of fumes will trigger a reaction, including cigarette smoke.

Smoking, as you know, is popular with teens. And they like to light up, say, while waiting in queue for the bus to school, right next to me. Now when they do so, I could move, but no one else is going to let me budge in front of them, so I'd have to go the back of the queue, making my chances of getting on almost nil. I could ask them to put it out, but they could respond with 'No'; or move back in the line, making them lose their place. Plus I feel stupid asking them, or admitting I have a reaction if they asked why.

So what's the solution? Give up having a reaction? Not take that bus, and risk being late for school or having just more smokers come? Beat them up? This IS affecting me. And it's not like I can go somewhere else.

 

[Vegeta897]

Point is: Smoking either has a negative effect on other people or none at all. There is no good side to it for other people. It's selfish.

 

[Tr0n]

Well some people are selfish bastards.

Like me.

 

[Narcolepsy]

Point is: Smoking either has a negative effect on other people or none at all. There is no good side to it for other people. It's selfish.

Right. And notice, as that becomes blatantly evident, Absinthe suddenly is "done here."

 

[Absinthe]

So what's the solution? Give up having a reaction? Not take that bus, and risk being late for school or having just more smokers come? Beat them up? This IS affecting me. And it's not like I can go somewhere else.

So they're assholes. The problem is with them as people. I have been to plenty of places in my time where laws are put in place so that people can't smoke around such areas. Even then, if you told them about your asthma, surely they'd move unless they were genuine Satan spawns.

Point is: Smoking either has a negative effect on other people or none at all. There is no good side to it for other people. It's selfish.

I know people who do find a good side to it, even as passive. A club or a bar without smoke is somehow wrong or unbefitting to them.

None of you have described how exactly smoking itself is selfish. The most I'm hearing is:

1) Smoking in restaurants or clubs is bad for other people, in which case your complaints go to the owner who has dictated the policy allowing smoking in his establishment. If you're not going to do that and persist in staying, then with all due respect, sit down and shut up.

2) People in the street who smoke. For most people, this equates to a fart in the wind.

3) It kills you. What?

4) Smokers take up valuable seats. My only response is to GTFO.

It's contextual, people. If you're smoking on a children's playground, you are selfish. If you are smoking in a pub that allows it, you are not. If you smoke at a crowded bus stop, you are selfish. If you're respectfully keeping your distance, you are not.

Right. And notice, as that becomes blatantly evident, Absinthe suddenly is "done here."

Actually, I was just going to leave because I thought we were at an impasse. But you apparently saw it as a competition. How petty.

I have time.

 

[Vegeta897]

I know people who do find a good side to it, even as passive. A club or a bar without smoke is somehow wrong or unbefitting to them.

That's circular reasoning :|

What a completely baseless opinion to have. It just doesn't "feel right"? Give me a break. As if them not having a bar that "feels right" due to smoking ITSELF was more important than people who are seriously annoyed and affected by it regarding health.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

So what's the solution? Give up having a reaction? Not take that bus, and risk being late for school or having just more smokers come? Beat them up? This IS affecting me. And it's not like I can go somewhere else.

I am allergic to smoke (all forms) and generally smokers will heed my plea for them to put it out.
Be assertive.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I'm angry with smoking, not smokers. There are two ways to stop it - starve the market through legislation, or somehow convert the smokers. I think the former is more likely.

Man **** off with that. Stop trying to take away people's freedoms through the government. Let people make their OWN choices, who are you to tell people if they can or cannot smoke.

Ruining the market through legislation is in effect a virtual ban, it's against the basic principles of freedom.

Yes, be angry at someone who smokes if they do something that makes you uncomfortable, don't cause others to suffer because you're angry at someone else, though.


Bottom line is, if you don't want to smoke, DON'T DO IT. Don't try and force your will on others through the government.

 

[Absinthe]

That's circular reasoning :|

Elaborate.

What a completely baseless opinion to have. It just doesn't "feel right"? Give me a break. As if them not having a bar that "feels right" due to smoking ITSELF was more important than people who are seriously annoyed and affected by it regarding health.

It's called ambience. Or environment. Or setting. It's like walking into an English pub with bright neon lights and techno music. Certain things do not mesh, and others do.

If people are annoyed and affected by it, then they can vacate the premises. Ciao. Try pleading your case to the owner. As for most other normal people, they can put up with the smoke so long as its not being blown directly in their faces. Believe me, non-smokers often co-exist with smokers in the same location and have no issue regarding it.
Find another place that doesn't allow smoking.

 

[Narcolepsy]

Man **** off with that. Stop trying to take away people's freedoms through the government. Let people make their OWN choices, who are you to tell people if they can or cannot smoke.

Ruining the market through legislation is in effect a virtual ban, it's against the basic principles of freedom.

Yes, be angry at someone who smokes if they do something that makes you uncomfortable, don't cause others to suffer because you're angry at someone else, though.

YES! Let people make their OWN choices! Low on cash? Want to take that guy's wallet? Who is the government to tell you not to?

 

[Tr0n]

As for most other normal people, they can put up with the smoke so long as its not being blown directly in their faces. Believe me, non-smokers often co-exist with smokers in the same location and have no issue regarding it.
Find another place that doesn't allow smoking.

Yea, as long as people don't blow their smoke in my face, I'm fine with it. If not, then I'm bound to kick someones ass.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

YES! Let people make their OWN choices! Low on cash? Want to take that guy's wallet? Who is the government to tell you not to?

Yeah because that's what I was saying. Use some common sense, and don't try to strip away OTHER PEOPLE'S rights.

This isn't 1940