Ethics and Artificial Intelligence

[nbk-brando]

This is in honor of the thread that was unintentionally hijacked (by me) here:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10154&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

The ending discussion was, basically, what it means to create AI, how it may be possible, and what are the ethics issues that we'll be responsible for? If we eventually create something that can reason and have a sense of being, and these AI's are present in games, is it ethical to kill/hurt/maim them? Or have we crossed the line at this point?

 

[Lucifer Crass]

As long as they have no being in the real world and connot screw with my computer i dont mind downing them in a bathtub of bleach myself.

 

[sportz103]

As long as the AI is entirely software based and doesn't control anything hardware based, I see no problem whacking it with a crowbar. Then again, I don't mind bashing anything with a crowbar. :cheese:

 

[bastard_loud]

Hmm...

Well i don't know if that's ethical or not, but i say let everybody decide for themselves. I know i'd have no problem with it.
It would make some interesting, challenging games, that's for sure.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Originally posted by sportz103
As long as the AI is entirely software based and doesn't control anything hardware based, I see no problem whacking it with a crowbar. Then again, I don't mind bashing anything with a crowbar. :cheese:

w3rd br0, thats what i am talkin about, Crowbar smashing :dozey:

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Artifical war is better than a real one, and besides if boosts your eye hand coordination.

 

[sportz103]

Have you seen the matrix?!? Side note: I finally made an avatar, what do you think

 

[bastard_loud]

It makes me wonder how old you are.

 

[sportz103]

that was the point, oh and im a 16 year old boy with an [lie] enormous wang [/lie]

 

[Wesisapie]

jigglypuff owns smash bros melee.....

 

[sportz103]

no link does, and you might not want people to know you know the pokemon's names

 

[Lucifer Crass]

MAtrix is complete bull shasta. If u where to die in the matrix how would ur brain die? I mean comon nothion touched it inless it electricutes u. By from what i have seen it wouldnt kill u to die in the matrix, they just added that for Drama, i.e. the ending of both the first and second one.

 

[sportz103]

I was talking more about Xion, (If you haven't seen Reloaded go download it this is a *spolilser*) They built AI so powerful it was able to make the AI for the sentinels which is a serious problem.

 

[Rasmoh]

Originally posted by nietzsche
In the most positive scenario, a player takes something away from the lessons learned in such a sand-box environment.

Absolutely, but what about a negative scenario? What if the player, who is immersed in a virtual real world, becomes numb to all the violence in that world that looks and works like the real world with the exception that there are no consequenses, and starts to act similiarily in the real world?

 

[Lucifer Crass]

AI for robots pwns humans, i would rather be AI in a robot than a lame ass pathetic human, If u had a robot body with a conciousness, u could go into a fighter bot or a Jet bot or a drill droid, Never having to breath air or worry about dieing. And always being upgraded. Man how could u not want that

 

[sportz103]

that is so what happened to me after playing GTA, I gotta go sue somebody now

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Its reality that people bleed and are hurt, dont shield yourselves from the truth, it only compunds ignorance. Not saying that u should go kill someone but people do die violently all teh time. i.e car accidents and u can't let something like that effect you for the rest of yuor life so if u get over the blood part u can get over the person that meant something to u a lot faster.

 

[sportz103]

So true, so true

 

[zdub]

ethics went out the window with pride and hope.

bow before apathy!

 

[qckbeam]

I believe that if we create A.I. and it's self-aware, humans will have created a new form of life greater than oursleves. I don't think the matrix is far off regarding what could happen after A.I. becomes more intelligent than ourselves. It's a much more perfect form of life.

 

[sportz103]

So true, so true

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Originally posted by sportz103
So true, so true

Spam. stop trying to up your post count lol

 

[Rasmoh]

Originally posted by qckbeam
I believe that if we create A.I. and it's self-aware, humans will have created a new form of life greater than oursleves. I don't think the matrix is far off regarding what could happen after A.I. becomes more intelligent than ourselves. It's a much more perfect form of life.

I wonder if some intelligent race, somehwere in the universe, has already destroyed itself by creating an AI or a more superior biological entity.

 

[sportz103]

So true, so true

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Biological entitiy, lol. Robots are more stable and are better equipped for this universe than biological lifeforms. They can presisely calculate ever action reaction response all in a matter of miliseconds, which is way faster than any capable biological being i can thing of

 

[Rasmoh]

Originally posted by coolio2man
Biological entitiy, lol. Robots are more stable and are better equipped for this universe than biological lifeforms. They can presisely calculate ever action reaction response all in a matter of miliseconds, which is way faster than any capable biological being i can thing of

The keyphrase here being "I can think of". How do we know, what we, or some more advanced races, might achieve with genetic manipulation, for example?

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Well brain thoughts travel 100mph through our head, and computers are about 1000000x faster than us. That alone makes them more capable. Wonder why everything is run by computers? Because they would pwn us any day of the week.

 

[Flyingdebris]

i think that if it becomes sentient, alive or not, i would not try to kill it unless it was in immediate life or death self defense.


if it was just a craft AI and not sentient, i would not have a problem.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

what makes u guys think we arent just as artificial?

 

[sportz103]

So true, so true

 

[Rasmoh]

Originally posted by nietzsche
It should be a dogma for all serious game designers to make the player aware of the consequences of his/her actions. Players must not only have positive, but also negative experiences. That's the basis for any genuine learning process. The fact that a player might imitate what was experienced during a virtual simulation is not to blame on the game designers. Acting in morally questionable ways would be an inherent trait of the player.

I agree. And as you said, the player must have negative experiences & consequences if the virtual world would work similarily to our own.

How do you think a true, self-aware AI would affect the gaming experience in an emotinoal level, by the way? Would it be harder for us, emotionally, to kill a realistically behaving human character?

 

[Direwolf]

Yet computers aren't smarter than us. Theres the rub. They can calculate, but can they THINK?
While the Matrix does explore this, I'd recommend anyone with an interest check out The Animatrix, a bunch of animated shorts based on the Matrix universe. The Second Renaissance Pt I & II show the history behind the Matrix, and how it came to be. Humans did just what we are discussing here: we created AI, made it work for us, and when it tried to gain its own freedom we attempted to wipe it from the face of the planet and lost. Very interesting stuff.

 

[SupaKoopa]

isn't there some test to test if there's true AI?

i forgot the name, but you're supposed to go in a sort of chat room and talk to a person you can't see. it will either be a human or an AI. if you can't tell the difference, then it's true AI...

once AI can do that, and it's implemented into a game, then i wont whack it with a crowbar...that is, when AI can react realistically to ALL stimuli, converse, have "feelings" and truly "think," it will be immoral to kill it.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Originally posted by Rasmoh
I agree. And as you said, the player must have negative experiences & consequences if the virtual world would work similarily to our own.

How do you think a true, self-aware AI would affect the gaming experience in an emotinoal level, by the way? Would it be harder for us, emotionally, to kill a realistically behaving human character?

Think about it this way. U kill real people on games. They are hurt if they die etc. But that doesnt stop u now does it? No problem here

 

[Rasmoh]

Originally posted by coolio2man
Think about it this way. U kill real people on games. They are hurt if they die etc. But that doesnt stop u now does it? No problem here

But the probelm is, I know that they aren't sentient beings.

 

[Rasmoh]

Originally posted by SupaKoopa
isn't there some test to test if there's true AI?

i forgot the name, but you're supposed to go in a sort of chat room and talk to a person you can't see. it will either be a human or an AI. if you can't tell the difference, then it's true AI...

The Turing test.

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Unless they submit a report to me stating how the game world would be a better place with them alive in it and why i shouldnt kill them i will not be swayed. Because if there not missed they dont exist

 

[Lucifer Crass]

Also dont, gimme that bull that i shouldnt be making life an death decisions, cuzz on my comp i am God

Edit: And if i wanted to bring someone back . F7 lolz

 

[qckbeam]

That's actually totally true coolio2man, on our computers we are gods. Think about it. When computers can actually be powerful enough to become self-aware and human in thought, what keeps them from being any less real than us? It's a sort of alternate reality that we would have created, a different plane of existence. And in regards to the Animatrix, I honestly could see that happening in exactly that format (Second Rennaisance). I could see humans creating a new race too, possibly a mix of organic and mechanical parts. A mix of genetics and computer technology. Very interesting.

 

[BlazeKun]

If they are smarter than us... What makes you all think that they would be inherently evil? If it is smarter than us then it would realize that pain and suffering is not good, and that happiness and love rules over all.