Ever taken drugs?

Ever taken non-prescription drugs?

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burner69 said:
Typo; sorry, I meant to say "illegalising".

Your arguments haven't been getting through because you haven't made anything other than you opinion known. We have made an effort to show facts.

Weed is not 'good', but I enjoy it. The point we have been conveying is that smoking is, in our opinions, more enjoyable than drink. It is a FACT that alcohol is more damamging to health. And we have shown that whether you agree with smoking it or not, legalisation will decrease useage and make it easier for the problems related to it's use to be dealt with.

And as for dark elfs links.... erm... hypocrit? (oh no I've used a big word!!) It seems that all our arguments have fallen on deaf ears. We have answered back to your points on the negative sides of drugs, you have failed to answer back on anything we have debated on with anything other than your own opinions.

At least we made the effort to put statistics with our debate. If you can't find anything to prove that legalisation would be a bad thing, then there is nothing for us to listen to... how can we be 'deaf' to things that aren't being said?
Click to expand...

You act as if you know legalizing the schtuff would definitely work in the way you think it would.

I've tried using opinion and fact. Both of us have.
 
Reaktor4 said:
Seconded. But this is what ALWAYS happens when you argue with prohibitionists. For some reason they are unreasonable.
Click to expand...

Ah, the irony.
 
MadHatter said:
Ah, the irony.
Click to expand...
No, i am a reasonable person. If you present actual facts that disprove what i say, i will concede those points. However, when its the other way round, prohibitionists simply refuse to do that.
 
Reaktor4 said:
No, i am a reasonable person. If you present actual facts that disprove what i say, i will concede those points. However, when its the other way round, prohibitionists simply refuse to do that.
Click to expand...

Can I call you Hippy? You seem to like throwing that prohibitionist word around.

After I present my little bit of facts and loaded opinions, you call me a prohibitionist and claim to be reasonable. lol

Explain indepth how legalizing all these drugs magically reduce drug problems? I'd just like to see it again. I don't understand how you can say alcohol is lethal drug that is legal, and the next minute say that legalizing all these other drugs would somehow work like magic from angels and stop drug problems.
 
there's never been a cannibis related death ..ever ..cant say the same for alcohol
 
MadHatter said:
Can I call you Hippy? You seem to like throwing that prohibitionist word around.
Click to expand...
You support prohibition.

After I present my little bit of facts and loaded opinions, you call me a prohibitionist and claim to be reasonable. lol
Click to expand...
You have done nothing but avoid the points.
Explain indepth how legalizing all these drugs magically reduce drug problems? I'd just like to see it again. I don't understand how you can say alcohol is lethal drug that is legal, and the next minute say that legalizing all these other drugs would somehow work like magic from angels and stop drug problems.
Click to expand...
How many times do i have to explain it? Ive provided the links, and some of the arguments. You have not proven me wrong on a single point.
Notice that its ONLY the reformists that are giving scientific evidence to support what we say. Everything from the other side is anecdotes, opinions and morals. Ive told you to take my heroin post point by point and debunk the points, but you simply can not do that. Each point is backed up by fact. You are ignoring what we say.
If this was in court, 'objection'...'sustained' would be the response to just about everything you say.
 
The Dark Elf said:
Ahh, you must have failed to see the pages before the one you started posting in. Don't worry, just hit the back button and you should find them.
Click to expand...

OK, Ive read the entire thread AGAIN and have still failed to see a single piece of evidence in favour of keeping weed illegal.
I have read people's experience of parania - which is a negative, short term effect of cannabis use.

Here is the information I have collected from this thread regarding evidence given FOR the legalisation

http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
www.briancbennett.com

"Pure heroin (diacetylmorphine/diamorphine) does zero permanent physical damage to the user.
Street heroin is sold to users at vastly inflated prices, compared to what it would cost if sold legally. This is the reason why people are forced into crime to pay for the drug. People arent gonna rob houses if their habit costs £5 a day, however the way things are now it can cost over £150 a day.
Criminal gangs make most of their money from selling illegal drugs.
These illegal drugs are usually mixed with all sorts of crap that maximises harm to the user, and profit to the dealer.
Accidental overdoses can happen because people dont know how strong the drug theyre taking is. However, with steet heroin this is still fairly rare, as heroin itself is definitely not easy to fatally overdose on. A heroin overdose is, for example, not as dangerous as a paracetamol/acetaminophen overdose and that is sold over the counter in many places. Most of the 'fatal heroin overdoses' you hear about are actually deaths caused by dangerous contaminants in the drug, not the drug itself.
Addiction isnt necessarily a big problem in itself. If an addict is supplied with a clean, safe drug when needed, they will not have to endure withdrawal symptoms and can get on with their life, much like nicotine addicts.
According to an australian government survey, only 8% of male and 4% of female heroin users use the drug daily.
Addicts, or anyone else, currently arent given any proper education on how to use drugs safely from governments. In a legal environment this should include for example how to inject properly to avoid injury.
With the price of drugs being artificially inflated as i mentioned earlier, addicts must maximise the effect of the drug by injecting as opposed to smoking (for example), in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms as much as possible. With the state of the drugs sold on the street, injecting obviously leads to more physical harm to the user.
The average age of a heroin addict in holland is about 43 and rising. In the uk it is around 20 and falling. More tolerant countries have less drug users."

I ADMIT THESE WILL BE BIAS. But they're based on statistics from the government.

THAT is an argument.

Saying "I tried it once but felt funny so didn't again" is not. There have been an equal amount saying "I tried it and it was fun."

This is not currently a debate, this is non-cannabis users ignoring an argument and resorting to laughing off, or threatening to ban people who are making an effort to argue in something they believe in.
 
keep party drugs far, far, away from me.

I can only say I have used marijuana and it is legal in Holland, but I am underage. I use it very infrequent and it is mixed with tobacco, that is the only time I take in nicotine. I am not physically or mentally dependent on it. If I had to stop for whatever reason I could do that easily.

I like alcohol as well but I don't get drunk on it because I control my drinking.
 
MadHatter said:
Explain indepth how legalizing all these drugs magically reduce drug problems? I'd just like to see it again. I don't understand how you can say alcohol is lethal drug that is legal, and the next minute say that legalizing all these other drugs would somehow work like magic from angels and stop drug problems.
Click to expand...

Please read the links.
 
Reaktor4 said:
You support prohibition.


You have done nothing but avoid the points.

How many times do i have to explain it? Ive provided the links, and some of the arguments. You have not proven me wrong on a single point.
Notice that its ONLY the reformists that are giving scientific evidence to support what we say. Everything from the other side is anecdotes, opinions and morals. Ive told you to take my heroin post point by point and debunk the points, but you simply can not do that. Each point is backed up by fact. You are ignoring what we say.
If this was in court, 'objection'...'sustained' would be the response to just about everything you say.
Click to expand...


No, I've tried proving you wrong with pure and simple logic, but you're so stoned deaf it's futile. I've lost interest. I think I'll let you sit back and rot with whatever drug you use because you seem to relish them so much.

I guess I eat babies too if I'm a prohibitionist.
 
burner69 said:
OK, Ive read the entire thread AGAIN and have still failed to see a single piece of evidence in favour of keeping weed illegal.
I have read people's experience of parania - which is a negative, short term effect of cannabis use.

Here is the information I have collected from this thread regarding evidence given FOR the legalisation

http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
www.briancbennett.com

"Pure heroin (diacetylmorphine/diamorphine) does zero permanent physical damage to the user.
Street heroin is sold to users at vastly inflated prices, compared to what it would cost if sold legally. This is the reason why people are forced into crime to pay for the drug. People arent gonna rob houses if their habit costs £5 a day, however the way things are now it can cost over £150 a day.
Criminal gangs make most of their money from selling illegal drugs.
These illegal drugs are usually mixed with all sorts of crap that maximises harm to the user, and profit to the dealer.
Accidental overdoses can happen because people dont know how strong the drug theyre taking is. However, with steet heroin this is still fairly rare, as heroin itself is definitely not easy to fatally overdose on. A heroin overdose is, for example, not as dangerous as a paracetamol/acetaminophen overdose and that is sold over the counter in many places. Most of the 'fatal heroin overdoses' you hear about are actually deaths caused by dangerous contaminants in the drug, not the drug itself.
Addiction isnt necessarily a big problem in itself. If an addict is supplied with a clean, safe drug when needed, they will not have to endure withdrawal symptoms and can get on with their life, much like nicotine addicts.
According to an australian government survey, only 8% of male and 4% of female heroin users use the drug daily.
Addicts, or anyone else, currently arent given any proper education on how to use drugs safely from governments. In a legal environment this should include for example how to inject properly to avoid injury.
With the price of drugs being artificially inflated as i mentioned earlier, addicts must maximise the effect of the drug by injecting as opposed to smoking (for example), in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms as much as possible. With the state of the drugs sold on the street, injecting obviously leads to more physical harm to the user.
The average age of a heroin addict in holland is about 43 and rising. In the uk it is around 20 and falling. More tolerant countries have less drug users."

I ADMIT THESE WILL BE BIAS. But they're based on statistics from the government.

THAT is an argument.

Saying "I tried it once but felt funny so didn't again" is not. There have been an equal amount saying "I tried it and it was fun."

This is not currently a debate, this is non-cannabis users ignoring an argument and resorting to laughing off, or threatening to ban people who are making an effort to argue in something they believe in.
Click to expand...
That about sums it up.
 
MadHatter said:
No, I've tried proving you wrong with pure and simple logic, but you're so stoned deaf it's futile. I've lost interest. I think I'll let you sit back and rot with whatever drug you use because you seem to relish them so much.

I guess I eat babies too if I'm a prohibitionist.
Click to expand...
Your 'logic' is flawed. I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN WHY.
For the last time, read this, or at least the part which deals with the logic behind prohibition. http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Policy_General_AftertheWaronDrugsReport.htm

Another thing, imo, if youre not prepared to put in the time and effort to learn about a subject, you are absolutely not entitled to have an opinion on that subject.
 
MadHatter said:
Drugs = bad.... What's so hard?
Click to expand...

Erm... the negative effects (in the case of cannabis) are FAR less bad than those of drink.

It's so hard when you're clearly ignoring evidence on the subject.

Booze: http://www.nickscape.net/recoveryzone/alcohol.htm


In a study carried out by the Canadian Government in 1972, to investigate cannabis use they found this:

The Commission concluded:

In respect to the alleged mental effects of the drugs, the Commission have come to the conclusion that the moderate use of hemp drugs produces no injurious effects on the mind .... It is otherwise with excessive use. Excessive use indicates and intensifies mental instability .... It appears that excessive use of hemp drugs may, especially in cases where there is any weakness or hereditary predisposition. induce insanity. It has been shown that the effect of hemp drugs in this respect has hitherto been greatly exaggerated, but that they do sometimes produce insanitv seems beyond question .... Viewing the subject generally. it may be added that the moderate use of these drugs is the rule, and that the excessive use is comparatively exceptional. [P. 264

Check out the full report
http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/Library/studies/ledain/lcd2g.htm

It's not exactly pro-weed, but it shows how the negative effects have been blown out of all proportion
 
MadHatter said:
Likewise. You can't answer the question.
Click to expand...
Im not even going to discuss this with you any more. Your arguments and avoiding issues is pathetic.
 
burner69 said:
Erm... the negative effects (in the case of cannabis) are FAR less bad than those of drink.

It's so hard when you're clearly ignoring evidence on the subject.

Booze: http://www.nickscape.net/recoveryzone/alcohol.htm


In a study carried out by the Canadian Government in 1972, to investigate cannabis use they found this:

The Commission concluded:

In respect to the alleged mental effects of the drugs, the Commission have come to the conclusion that the moderate use of hemp drugs produces no injurious effects on the mind .... It is otherwise with excessive use. Excessive use indicates and intensifies mental instability .... It appears that excessive use of hemp drugs may, especially in cases where there is any weakness or hereditary predisposition. induce insanity. It has been shown that the effect of hemp drugs in this respect has hitherto been greatly exaggerated, but that they do sometimes produce insanitv seems beyond question .... Viewing the subject generally. it may be added that the moderate use of these drugs is the rule, and that the excessive use is comparatively exceptional. [P. 264

Check out the full report
http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/Library/studies/ledain/lcd2g.htm

It's not exactly pro-weed, but it shows how the negative effects have been blown out of all proportion
Click to expand...

Ohhh yeahhhh, drugs aren't bad. Noooooo, of course not. They only kill people and do many more things. Get real people, seriously.

Drugs = bad. What's so hard to understand?
 
MadHatter said:
Ohhh yeahhhh, drugs aren't bad. Noooooo, of course not. They only kill people and do many more things. Get real people, seriously.

Drugs = bad. What's so hard to understand?
Click to expand...
You have been well and truely brainwashed.
 
MadHatter said:
Likewise. You can't answer the question.
Click to expand...
For Christ's sake. Look. Smoking weed is enjoyable for some people. It has some negative effects yet if done in moderation there is little or no evidence to support there are any long term negative effects.
Here is a link for you to read
http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/Library/studies/ledain/lcd2g.htm

Read it.

Alcohol is a legal drug that has many severe long term effects. Although, again, if done in moderation these effects are minimal
http://www.nickscape.net/recoveryzone/alcohol.htm

We are arguing this: Why shouldn't weed be legal when clearly there are very few negative effects, and legalising would reduce any negative effects that are associated with it

http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
www.briancbennett.com


Now read them. And come back with an argument that gives any one logical reason why weed shouldn't be made legal.
 
Bah.. tiresome now. Reaktor4, warned for personal attacks.. I told you pages ago not to.

(and before you get on your high horse, no your not being warned for debating, sorry but you wont be a martyr today)


*locked*
 
*unlocked*

On the condition things remain civil and no more getting personal, goes for everyone not just Reaktor4, who's warning im afraid still stands.

Keep it clean guys

Roooound 2! :p
 
The Dark Elf said:
*unlocked*

On the condition things remain civil and no more getting personal, goes for everyone not just Reaktor4, who's warning im afraid still stands.

Keep it clean guys

Roooound 2! :p
Click to expand...
Thank you, I was about to beg you to open it :p.

I am still waiting for 1 good reason as to why marijuana should be kept illegal. Without that 1 good reason all other debate is pointless.
 
One day, the weed dealer my friends and I share gave us another phone number to get some coke. Of course we did not use it, because we only smoked weed. Even if we weren't interested in sniffing some white shit, after a while some of my friends took that phone number, bought some coke and did alot of it.

If weed was legal, we would never have had access to coke and therefor my friends would not have started taking any.
 
Marijuana shouldn't be made legal. Keep things as they are I say, the current situation isn't really that bad and we have no idea what legalising it would do.

edit:


If weed was legal, we would never have had access to coke and therefor my friends would not have started taking any.
Click to expand...

The dealer still may run out of weed even if weed were legal.
 
Thanks DE!

yeah guys, if anybody looked at this thread it would seem that, whether they agreed on the matter or not, MUCH more evidence to support legalisation has been given.

I'd appreciate it if those against it would read what's been given and make their own opinions on it, not just repeat what they've been brought up to say.

There is some anti-cannabis research stuff out there, www.google.com come back with some and let us debate, not just argue with you.
 
we11er said:
Marijuana shouldn't be made legal. Keep things as they are I say, the current situation isn't really that bad and we have no idea what legalising it would do.
Click to expand...
Please read the information on these links. Our argument for legalising it will make more sense

http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm
www.briancbennett.com

(Basically it says that countries who are tolerant of cannabis (Holland) have a lower percentage of cannabis users than those countries who have it as outright illegal)
You'll also find evidence from various governments in those links and in others that show that the negative effects of cannabis, while existing, are exagerated and only occur if it is smoked in excess and for an extended period.
 
nicrd said:
One day, the weed dealer my friends and I share gave us another phone number to get some coke. Of course we did not use it, because we only smoked weed. Even if we weren't interested in sniffing some white shit, after a while some of my friends took that phone number, bought some coke and did alot of it.

If weed was legal, we would never have had access to coke and therefor my friends would not have started taking any.
Click to expand...
No offense, but your friends are stupid. I can easily get in contact with a number of coke dealers at any time, weed dealers have nothing to do with it. If you have any friends you can pretty much find any drug you want.

Marijuana shouldn't be made legal. Keep things as they are I say, the current situation isn't really that bad and we have no idea what legalising it would do.
Click to expand...
Getting arrested and having to go to court for a little bit of weed is really that bad and needs to be changed.

Come on people, just 1 good reason. I am for legalizing it and can come up with a number of good arguments against it.
 
Yeah I was just going to read them, must admit I haven't really read up on this stuff.

edit:

and I'm guessing there are differences between police tolerance for weed in differetn countries. Here in the UK the police are fairly lax about it. If you're blatently smoking/dealing in public then of course they'll nail you, but generally being caught with it, they will confiscate it and let you off. This is my experience anyway.
 
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